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otz video about the nurse. opinions?
otz is right nurse should be like oni and gain his power
Comments
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Well, people will watch this video (include me). And Otz will make money from video.
17 -
Nah nuke her add-ons. Oni is insanely boring to play.
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I feel that dismissing the Nurse's ability of ignoring much of the core gameplay by citing those two addons is a little disingenuous. Yeah, if she can literally teleport one centimeter than windows and pallets are suddenly viable so what?
I do agree with him on the solution though. Nerfing the addons is the more likely possibility, but I would love her teleport ability to fill up so that she isn't oppressive all the time and you actually have counterplay against even a top tier player.
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Even addonless she's still op, his idea is pretty good make her normal mov speed and change her power it's the only way to "normalize" her
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Nah thats a good way to break her legs. All the strong killers have access to their power all the time. Dont need to make an exception here just because.
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Np she's been strongest killer for years it's boring now, it's time for a rework, other killers will shine
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Too bad thats probably not gonna happen and you'll have to keep facing same old boring nurse isnt it <3
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Some really good suggestions there.
Another suggestion is to let players ban a certain killer when they queue up. Then those who like to go up against the Nurse can, and those who don't aren't forced to. This will increase que times, but I know most would happily que a bit longer to get a game they actually want to play rather than one where people instantly kill themselves on hook.
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Survivor mains: "Nerf Nurse! Nerf Nurse! Nerf Nurse"
Devs:
"Past buffs to The Clown have made him a wee bit over powered, so these changes are intended to adjust the most obviously overpowered elements:
- amount of bottles reduced to 1 (was 4)
- movement speed is reduced to 4.4 m/s"
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Why? People still cry about Oni. It would do absolutely nothing to solve their issue and only make her infinitely more frustrating to play. Unless she got a one shot while in her power. Rofl. I HIGHLY DOUBT that is a compromise any survivor is willing to make.
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I play mostly killer just to avoid nurse half of my games are against blight/nurse, I wouldn't be so sure about what you said but we'll see, in my opinion she's ruining the game
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IMO he is wrong in saying that her ability is not a problem by mentioning those two Add Ons. Those two Add Ons are a proof that she should be reworked and not nerfed too hard, because you would need to nerf into the ground in order to make her not broken. And this would not work out.
At least he says that people saying that Nurse is hard to play are just wrong. Some people act like you need to be as smart as Hawking or Einstein to play Nurse well. Other Killers are way more difficult to play than her.
Personally, I think she should be reworked. Otherwise you cannot have a Killer which is not broken, but also not too weak, it is not possible. Giving her power a restriction like Oni or Myers might be an idea, but this would not really solve her issues. If you would have a minute of your power every now and then, this would mean that at worst, the whole team might be dead in that one minute. The 1v1-aspect (which also needs to be cared about) would not be good. Because on one hand, the Nurse would probably be an M1-Killer and then with her power active, she is the broken Killer she is just now. So in the 1v1, the Killer AND the Survivor will have an unenjoyable experience, it will just switch at some point and then switch back a bit after that.
She needs a Rework. Her Skill Floor needs to be lowered, it should not be so hard to learn Nurse. And on the same page, her Skill Ceiling needs to be increased, you should not have somewhat easy games just because you spend a bit to learn her. Other Killers have way more depth and Nurse should have the same. But she also should not be so different from any other Killer so that you dont have to learn her completely new if you gained some experience with Killer.
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People need to learn to play against Nurse. If they aren’t running range/3 blink and you get hit, that is 100% on you.
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I think her base kit is manageable, the problem is the add-one like he said should be nerfed, also Lethal blinks should count as special attacks.
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Yup, we needed another Nurse thread.
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I think the larger point he and others try to make is that she ignores elements survivors shouldn't be trying to use against her in the first place, but other parts of the map are very viable against Nurse. You don't use 100% of the map in a chase against an M1 killer. You definitely can against a Nurse.
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Make her cooldown after blinks longer, make the blink attacks count as special attack and not basic
Thats enough for me
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I actually agree with what he said, because it's basically what I've always been saying too in this forum.
Nurse's base power is fine. Her real problems are the add-ons that make her extremely forgiving of mistakes (yes, recharge too), and the fact that her power is extremely synergetic with exposed perks.
I can't count how many times I've seen literal garbage nurses getting undeserved wins just because they're horribly carried by these two (horribly broken) factors.
While I don't agree her power should be reworked, because she IS fun to play in her current state, her add-ons should be gutted. She doesn't need good ones.
But that's exactly the same with blight, spirit (MDR, DCB)...
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No they don't. They can just stop playing the game. Like many survivor players already, which can be seen in the long killer queue times. I am sure you enjoy those.
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It's odd to me that he mentions White Nit Comb as something that can tangibly decrease the Nurse's power level in terms of how forgiving she is, but then doesn't consider that it could be used to balance her very sensibly.
Simplest way to balance Nurse:
- Reduce her post-blink lunge range. With her current lunge, she merely has to blink within the approximate vicinity of a survivor, there's a fairly big margin of error since she can make up for inaccurate blinks or survivor jukes with her lunge. With a reduced lunge range, she still has all the advantages innate to her ability, only players have to be more precise with her blinks to actually hit survivors, and well-timed survivor jukes can actually work out more often. The amount by which her post-blink lunge range should be reduced comes down to experimenting, maybe the -50% of White Nit Comb is a little too much, maybe -33% is better.
- Make her blink hits not count as basic hits. Nurse already has insane snowball potential, there's no reason why she should also be able to capitalize upon the Exposed status effect from perks like Starstruck, Haunted Ground, NOED, Make Your Choice and so on. Blight's rush hits don't count as basics, and he's still a great killer. You can instead add an Exposed effect to the underpowered Matchbox add-on, where any survivor within Xm of the Nurse after she performs a maximum range blink will suffer from the Exposed status effect for a couple of seconds.
- The range add-ons should not affect blink speed, and they should increase the post-blink fatigue duration and blink recharge time by as much as they increase the blink range (e. g. Kavanaugh's Last Breath increases the maximum blink range by 30%, so it should also increase the fatigue duration and recharge time by 30%, which would be 0.6-0.75s for fatigue and 0.9-1.8s for recharge).
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Buddy im not going to lie to you, i enjoy the game immensely compared to before the patch.
I can not put into words how good it feels not to care about dead hard in a game. To just ... hit somebody when you are on top of them? Simply Divine.
For that alone i wouldnt care if the queu times were 10 minutes which they are not. I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. I care not one bit about queu times or anything and for that im genuinely sorry.
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"Even addonless, she's still op".
No.
Or, show us.
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Nurse is fine, the only problem is with the speed boost of the range (and the range itself once they fix the map sizes)
It was a nice choice of subject to make views though, I'll grant that.
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I speak for every console Nurse, please don't do #1. That is absolutely painful.
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"Reduce her post-blink lunge range."
And like that, in order to reach a survivor, she would have to perform a 100% accurate tp.
I think you really need to play the nurse a little bit to realize that the perspective of a survivor being chased by her is quite different from her perspective.
"Make her blink hits not count as basic hits"
So it amounts to completely preventing a nurse from using certain skills.
Because I can't see Sally floating around trying to hit a survivor in M1 while being outrun.
"The range add-ons should not affect blink speed, and they should increase the post-blink fatigue duration"
Perfect; this way, the nurse will be able to teleport further away, but in the end, it will be useless, since she will be looking at the ground for a longer period of time, which will allow the survivors, at each tp, to go and hide in a place out of her field of vision.
Guys, really, play nurse, please.
And turning the nurse into some kind of teleporting Oni is just ridiculous.
One of the reasons main nannies play this killer is JUST because she has a movement pattern that isn't the classic "I run, I break the pallet, I run, I go through the window, I run, I go around the wall, I run, etc."
It's that distinctive way of moving that makes many players love playing it, so making it an n-th killer that runs around ... no thanks.
HOWEVER, BHVR could totally, instead of slaughtering the nurse all over the place, create another killer that would be a "teleportation" type, but would be an "Oni-nurse", like what Otz advocates.
Yes, why not.
But leave the nurse alone for a while, it's getting ridiculous.
I agree that the acceleration of her tp below 20m due to the range addons is something to look into.
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Are you implying that Oni and plague aren’t strong?
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i am going to leave nurse alone when she becomes a balanced killer that is fun to play againts until then i am going to create threats every week until she gets nerfed. buckle up boogalo this is only starting.
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Why should we leave her alone when she’s been a thorn in the side of killer balance for 5 years?
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Compared to top tier killers? Yes there is a chasm between them. Any competent swf could dismantle an Oni any day by playing it super safe at the start and denying that first hit for as long as possible. And Plague when denied her power is a basic m1 killer.
Both of those killers will never be even close to nurse/blight/spirit. They are both imo, solo q stompers and thats about it.
They are plenty strong when compared to the average killer though!
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sooner or later Oni will get a hit whether it be from unsafe pallets, bloodlust or changing chases using Moniter. Plague can start with up to 3 fountains and always has at least 1. Not to mention everyone being broken is a huge advantage for exploiting altruism and snowballing regardless of if you have red puke or not
Both are considered high A tier which is actually very balanced imo
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Nerf her recharge and range addons and make her blink hits special attacks. Easy.
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And like that, in order to reach a survivor, she would have to perform a 100% accurate tp.
That's only true if you take away her post-blink lunge completely, which is not what I suggested.
I think you really need to play the nurse a little bit to realize that the perspective of a survivor being chased by her is quite different from her perspective.
I think you really need to stop making baseless assumptions that serve no purpose but to be contentious. I have played more than enough Nurse, having started playing DbD in 2017. Have you ever used White Nit Comb? I suggest you do that if not, and realize that what you said is not true. That's -50% post-blink lunge range, which still doesn't make her at all unplayable, and which I yet suggested might still be too much of a reduction.
So it amounts to completely preventing a nurse from using certain skills.
Pretty much, instadown "skills" which are overtuned on her. Again, players also don't use them on Blight either and still demolish people.
Perfect; this way, the nurse will be able to teleport further away, but in the end, it will be useless, since she will be looking at the ground for a longer period of time, which will allow the survivors, at each tp, to go and hide in a place out of her field of vision.
I want to reiterate that the fatigue duration would be increased by 600-750 milliseconds. Not sure why you think survivors can do all that in that time. They can't even cover a distance of 4m in that span.
To be fair, maybe increasing both fatigue and recharge time is too much for range add-ons, particularly alongside the lunge range reduction (and with the blink speed bug being fixed). Either/or is probably sufficient, would have to see it in action.
But leave the nurse alone for a while, it's getting ridiculous.
Nurse has been an objectively overpowered design since she was introduced into the game 6 years ago, that most of anyone who puts 100-200 hours into can comfortably win 90+% of their matches with. Calls for her to be balanced are not ridiculous, it's ridiculous she's been like this for years and years, and MMR means at the upper end you face her more and more frequently.
#1 is the actual substantial balance change though, #2 and 3 are more so circumstantial. IMO BHVR should implement keyboard and mouse support for the console versions anyway, not least due to cross-platform play being a thing.
Just out of curiousity since I have never played Nurse on console: Have you tried White Nit Comb before?
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I haven't watch the video as ATM I'm not able to.
But how would you make nurse earn her ability as she is slower than a survivor when not blinking.
If you make here 115% speed so she can gain her powers like Oni, then you have bigger problems.
She's then a 115% speed nurse 🤣👍
Her powers are fine, like some say, maybe look at her add ons.
I never had problems with nurse, in fact i really enjoy playing against her
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Yes sooner or later Oni will get their power, but until then they are a basic m1 killer and against competent teams, thats just not good enough imo.
And sure if you start Plague with 3 fountains she can do some work but we are discussing killers that dont have easy access to their power so assuming otherwise is pointless. And for sure there are some benefits to every one being injured but that alone is pretty weak since you know, legion is still a pretty weak killer.
They both have pretty good powers and vs solo q i agree that they are plenty strong, but they are designed with such flaws that imo they stand little chance vs competent teams. Good solo q stompers both but imo they lack what makes top killers strong.
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No doubt they are weaker against SWF but that’s just the nature of snowball killers. I see no issue with making nurse one since her power is already stronger than plague and oni’s despite not need any prerequisites to use. It only makes sense that the strongest power needs to charge up in some way
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If you see no issue with making her terrible against competent teams, thats on you buddy
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Have to disagree on his point about the meme add ons. Sure it makes nurse more difficult to play as but it doesn’t make her any better designed. She just does her usual badly designed gimmick worse basically
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DBD is already a snowball heavy game and snowball killers are poor design
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One of the few times i disagree with him. As a nurse main, the addons are not what make her strong. It's the fact that her power is able to tilt the gen speed to chase ratio in her favor.
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Yes, yes I have. It was extremely painful.
BHVR has said repeatedly that they won't add KB&M. Without it AND the choppier framerate, we can't blink precisely enough to reliably land hits with a lunge that short.
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You understand that her add ons just tilts that way further right?
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Otz has always had it out for Nurse. He had a hard time when he did the 50 win streak with her. Just shows his opinion does not match his experience.
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I agree fully about the add-on thing.
All Oni's used run Topknot but the devs decided to nerf it because it made him too strong. So I don't understand how killers like Spirit, Blight and Nurse can get away with it.
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The addons aren't the cause of the problem though. Nurse has been nerfed pretty much every single time since her inception. I don't know if she has ever received a buff.
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Well i mean, its a good thing that she got nerfed than since she is still the strongest killer in game.
And by your definition the add ons are a problem since you know, the problem is 'chase to gen speed ratio' and by making chases easier and making chases come sooner by traveling further with each blink you demolish that ratio.
By your definition they are a big problem.
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Instead of spreading your bile, you should show us how you play against her 😏
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The balance of the killers? Ah ... well ... we can also ... I don't know, me ... rework the OTHER killers to make them a little more efficient? ... instead of wanting to nerf the nurse?
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The range addons increase the range only slightly, additionally it takes longer to charge them. The addons aren't as good as people think for the chase. The point is that it lets her traverse the map better, which plenty of other killers can do better than she can even with the addons.
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Okay and what about the fact the addons increase her speed no matter what distance you're blinking?
A quick blink from a basekit nurse is slower than a ranged addon nurse and it makes ranged nurse extremely frustrating because it throws off timing and feels impossible to react to
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I was thinking about that while watching this. Nurse was one of the hardest 50 win streaks he had to do, and I remember him constantly losing a lot of games in a row with her. He's probably just going on what's popular on the forums and reddit.
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