Okay, let's take stance here.

SaltyNooty

Alright, so, I'll humor the killers for a bit and agree with them that this patch is "Good." IMO, as I've been saying countless times, they didnt need this buff regardless of whether or not they'd been winning less often then survivors or the other way around. At least, if the patch had just nerfed DH, DBD wouldn't be going through this. Just hear me out.

So, let's say this patch is good. Killers are clearly getting more kills like they're supposed to be, but obviously. This update opened a can of worms.

- More Campers/Tunnelers/Sluggers at early gens as gen 4 or 5.

- Survivors quite LITERALLY refusing to give killers a normal match (which wouldnt get survivors a decent amount of blood points anyways.

- Longer queue times on killers since no one wants to play survivor unless they're in a swf, Solo Q is the most toxic thing in the game to the point it's radioactive.

- Perks have been buffed and nerfed, some WELL deserved (Like DH, I wont lie, in competent usages, it was pretty busted) letting people run different builds or more slowdown perks/builds that allow easier 4K (Like No counterplay build on a legion, like bamboozle, Enduring, spirit fury and lightborn, etc etc.)

Hypothetically, if survivors didnt just throw games and get extremely frustrated because playing the game is now extremely difficult. How could we move forward from here?

I'd say nerfing the amount of hooks there are in game, I havent really counted but I genuinely think there are way too many, especially when killers get access to DECREASING the range between hooks. (Rotting oak) I'd say there should be 48 or 60 meters of range between one hook to a next, given that killers can easily cross between one hook to another and 60 meters of range are nothing to their movement speed compared to ours.

Buffing survivor addons like the petrified oak so it can increase the range by 4 or 6 meters, but it can only be stacked twice so that's 72 meters of difference between hooks. Not that it would ensure getting out of the killers grasp given if they have STBFL or get downed in a more...inconvenient spot like a dead zone.

Adding more pallets to certain areas, like unsafe loops?

Base kit kindred? And for those running kindred to increase the range of seeing a killers aura from 16 to 24 or 32?

For slugging, nothing I can suggest about that but running soul guard, unbreakable or tenacity + No mither. (Generally because getting slugged is kinda bad play on survivors part. Especially if people DONT take the chance to pick up their ally or they dont recover enough.)

But for camping/proxy campers and tunnelers, I'd say that if a killer is camping, give them some form of base kit kinship. Yeah, that one steve perk that rarely anyone uses? Let's put it to use. But instead of it only activating on struggle phase, it will activate during both, and only activates once per game/hook and will not activate when exit gates are opened. If a killer stays within 36 meters of a hook for longer than 25 seconds, the entity pause the timer for 15 seconds, and if they stay within 36 meters of the hook longer than 25 seconds AGAIN, it'll pause for 30 seconds.

this will effectively discourage camping because they'll lose precious gen time which can also counter slowdown builds since it gives time to the players to get the gens done.

As for tunneling, I know that the game can check whether or not a player is being chased, so it shouldnt be an overly strenuous task to check whether or not player being chased has been hooked in the past 2 minutes. If the survivor is being tunneled, in addition to player getting a speed boost from the Base Kit BT, they'll get an addition 10% speed boost to stack on to the one they already have which will persist for 25 seconds. Making getting the survivor even harder. Of course like I mentioned last time, this effect will not occur in endgame/when the exit gatea are open.

And killer players? Dont scream about SWF being able to abuse that, they literally abuse everything regardless of what is or done said, you got your buff to be more on par with competent SWF, these buffs are for solo Q players. Let's focus on SOLO Q before going back to literally punching a wall about SWF cause everyone knows how much you despise them. Please.

SaltyNooty

Now to silently wait opinions, if not I'll probably just repost this and hope for the best.

Carth

"I'd say nerfing the amount of hooks there are in game, I havent really counted but I genuinely think there are way too many, especially when killers get access to DECREASING the range between hooks. (Rotting oak) I'd say there should be 48 or 60 meters of range between one hook to a next, given that killers can easily cross between one hook to another and 60 meters of range are nothing to their movement speed compared to ours."

60 meter hooks at a 4.6 M/S rate(115% speed killers) would mean 60/ 4.6 = 13 seconds of travel time. A blade wipe takes 2.7 seconds to recover from. Base wiggle time is 16 seconds. With 1 body block you would never be able to make it to another hook if a survivor goes down at an already hooked survivor. Add in breakout + boil over for more fun. This is also assuming it is a straight line from hook A to hook B which is not always the case, terrain often means you have to follow a less efficient path.

SaltyNooty

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104719#Comment_3104719

Well, it was an idea and it doesnt have to be 60 meters, 48 meters would work well with that given math. Just something to increase the distance between walking from one hook to another would help the game greatly and this would seem like a good way to fix it. Once again, it's not 100% guaranteed that survivors will escape their grasp, and iron grasp is also a thing which would definitely let them get a hook in if they dont get body blocked and all.

Edit: Though I will agree, me suggesting 60 meters is a bit excessive with the given math. Though, it's not too much of a problem given the killers buffs and certain situations.

Roaroftime

lost me at saying the patch is good, I ain't reading the rest of that then

StibbityStabbity

Base Kindred and Bond wouldn't hurt. It would just need to operate as slightly less range than the perk versions, while the perk version improve the range to where they are now or a little higher. Originally I wasn't for letting Kindred work on stealth killers, and until they get a buff, I'm still against it, though I see the reasoning behind it.

A bit of an oddity to suggest, but honestly, increase the amount of skill checks while repairing generators. When I'm IN THE ZONE, the Great Skill Checks actually do a good job significantly powering through gen slowdown builds, while obviously requiring some "skill" and input from the survivor. It also increases the amount of points the survivors get from doing gens, which is always a good thing.

Marc_go_solo

With camping - and I mean actual face-camping, not proxy - I'd like to take a leaf from Pyramid Head. If a killer stays too close to a hook for a period of time, and there are no survivors nearby, then the survivor gets transported to another hook on the map. It may discourage camping and also help survivors in solo q who find it harder to communicate.

Alternatively, give the unhooked a Sprint Burst after being freed, although that may not stop a tunneller (although it would certainly waste their time).

Ultimately, if the first option was combined with a HUD update that allows you to know what other survivors are doing (gens, totem, chase, etc.), I'd be happy with that. Not sure about basekot Bond, but with the Kindred bit, so long as the HUD was in place, viewing if the killer is close by m9ght be enough.

SaltyNooty

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104836#Comment_3104836

Then obviously, you havent seen my previous posts relating to this cause I don't think this patch is good, it's just a hypothetical and pitching ideas that could help Solo Q and generally fix the imbalance this game has going on right now