Why are killers buffed again?
The very small insignificant thanatophobia nerf is a distraction for what will cause the return of a very unfun, overpowered, and annoying killer meta combo: Pain Resonance + Dead Man Switch.
The Artist is broken with that combo, more so than Legion with thanatophobia which is not affected by the nerf. Legion can easily keep all 4 injured and even down with his power. He will still be overpowered and unfun to verse.
Why was MoM nerfed so it is unfun to use? Why should it disable for doing the objective? These are perks made for killers and does very little for "survival".
I feel BHVR is not playing their game, listening to the community where survivor is unplayable. Survivor is a very oppressed and unattractive role. Survivors need a lot of buffs, such as reverting the DS stun, removing deactivation conditions for doing objectives, and dead hard needs to be more accessible and rewarding. Killers need the buffs reverted from the mid-chapter patch.
Comments
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Yeah sure, but who is gonna play Artist?
No matter how strong and SSSSS+69 Tier she may be, people just dont play Artist like they do Legion.
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I wasn't, and won't be, around for that combo but from what I've read it is an extremely annoying combination that most people were glad was gone. DBD has countless things that should come back, but perhaps this was not one of them.
The MoM nerf is dumb.
I don't think the DS nerf is something that cannot be adapted to, but it certainly wasn't needed. And I think the killer buffs should have come in the form of perks that affect the intended areas, such as Fire Up and STBFL.
So yeah...I think I agree.
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While I agree solo queue can be bad, decisive shouldn’t have been nerfed for killers such as nurse and blight, to say that perks shouldn’t deactivate from doing gens is crazy and almost as crazy as saying legion is overpowered, he literally has 0 anti loop and you can heal against him so thana won’t get the 12%, the insta down frenzy is countered by spreading on gens which is already a good tactic against every killer and relies on map size. It is delusional to say survivor is unplayable and that dead hard which is still one of the best exhaustions should be made to be more accessible and rewarding when it can literally give you another healthstate if used correctly.
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Artist Really doesnt Really needs Pain Resonance to use DMS effective imonly run only DMS and BBQ on her and it still works pretty well so yeah this chanfes doesnt make Artist Stronger because even whitout it she is already strong enough
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I'm not entirely sure why BHVR made this meta shake-up if they were just going to bring back Pain Res + DMS. Seems...counter-intuitive.
Likewise, while Artist isn't OP (definitely boring to face tho, holding W isn't fun for anyone) the Thana nerf really doesn't make sense. Was it annoying on Killers like Blight and Nurse? Sure. Who was it really oppressive on? Legion and Plague. The nerf doesn't affect them at all but makes the perk meme tier for every other Killer in the game.
The Mettle of Man nerf is pretty funny in a depressing sort of way. They should've just reduced the Protection hit requirement to 2 and left it alone from there.
I do feel like casual Survivor players are suffering a lot right now. The DS stun nerf needs to be reverted, for sure. Solo Q needs massive help and fast. I would like to see the basekit BT and Haste effect extended by a considerable amount.
I do think the amount of changes we got is a step in the right direction. The actual content of those changes and the lack of consideration towards Solo Q was not the right way to go.
Post edited by Pulsar on11 -
I Play her she is my 2nd favourite Killer ( Dredge is #1 ) and she makes alot Fun i also love her new Skin :)
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There is nothing survivor can do against a Legion in Feral Frenzy so there's no counterplay to not being injured and he can literally down if he hits four survivors. It is not fair to say he has 0 anti-loop when being injured basically means you are 1-shot down.
Survivor is unplayable if you are wanting a fair game.
Another healthstate is just another word for "dodging a hit" in a --- survival game where survivor is running from killer. The survivor is not even increasing speeds now to dodge the hit. It is very unfun to use now.
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I dont think you understand what anti-loop is.
Saying "basically being 1 shot is anti-loop" is like saying that Myers is an anti-loop killer because their ability exposes people... that's not how things work. You can loop the killer while being one shot, since typically one shot killers dont have any/much ability to shutdown loops and heavily rely on perks to down survivors.
Anti-loop means that your killer's ability hinders or makes the survivor's ability to loop more difficult, being "1 shot" has nothing to do with that, since they still have to work to hit the survivors. Anti-loop is more comparable to ability along the likes of Dredge, Nurse, Blight, Clown, Pinhead, hell even Billy has anti-loop with his chainsaw mechanics.
SoloQ needs buffs and major quality of life, Im fine with that, high tier killers need to be looked at, I understand people being upset with high tier killers, but you really need to stop your whinging since your post history is nothing but a broken record caught in an echo chamber.
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Artist isn't OP and can do perfectly fine without PR+DMS. And to be fair, Pain Resonance and DMS can easily be countered by letting go of the gen before a survivor is hooked. If you suspect the killer has it, let go of the gen you're working on for a minute and see if it explodes when the survivor is hooked. But the combo is still kind of dumb nonetheless.
The MoM nerf is ridiculous though and shouldn't have even been introduced. Now the perk is even more situational and useless. These unnecessary survivor nerfs need to stop.
Survivors definitely need buffs and killers need more nerfs accordingly. STBFL is one of the strongest killer perks in the game right now because of the weapon cooldown decrease and needs to be changed back to it's original numbers. Thana wasn't really nerfed the right way because it's still oppressive on Legion and Plague, the two killers that got the most benefit out of it. Survivor Sprint speed when hit needs to be reverted and killer's weapon cooldown needs to go back to where it was. Basekit BT also needs to be increased to 10 seconds so you can actually have enough time to get to a pallet or window to lose the killer.
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The killer meta is back, when the devs said they wanted to shake it up, only for survivor it seems. That along with anti-loop killers like artist, basekit buffs, insane gen slowdown perks and survivors get 5 second BT, it's a joke.
On top of all that I've never in my life seen so much tunnelling and camping as I have since the last patch dropped. I could excuse it before the buffs but not now.
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Thing is,not even legion could realistically get much value from Thanatophobia. I'm actually just gonna drop the perk for gift of pain or dms. Sucks too since thana was pretty solid before the buffs for legion and plague. In terms of builds,I think the new legion build is: Pain resonance,DMS,Dying light,and probably overcharge or call of brine.
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Go ahead and revert every basekit change but DH needs to stay gone, the game feels so good without it, too bad so many people are trolling or giving up instead of playing normally because it's hard to tell what changes were/are needed.
Post edited by Sludge on1 -
You’re very liberal with the term unfun. So far most of the changes have been pretty fun. I’d say that DBD is the most exciting it’s been for a long time and that’s a good thing.
What you qualify as unfun doesn’t equate to bad for the game. Don’t fall into the trap of confusing your opinion with fact.
The devs seem to be listening to their community because killers got some much needed qol changes that have been a long time coming and it has lifted the viability, replay-ability and hence fun of a lot of the roster.
I’m sure there will be further changes and as always stuff will lurch from one side to the other in a effort to balance out.
You don’t really provide any basis for your criticism outside of “I don’t like it change it back.” We can only hope the devs are ignoring that kind of feedback.
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If I'm not versing Blight/Huntress/Nurse/Spirit exactly, it's a tunneling wraith or an oni taking advantage of the bug. It's honestly, as boring and stale it's ever been, if not more so. Survivor at this point just feels like it exists to give killers their power fantasy boner. With the buffs, they're just rewarded harder for playing that strong killer or perk combo, or camping that 3 gen and making the game take 30 minutes win or lose, or tunnelling that survivor at 5 gens and removing people from the game by doing as little as possible. Tell me what's fun or different about any of the above?
Also guys, PR +DMS is back because I believe PR was causing unintended synergy with merciless storm and making it last way longer after regression because it didn't interrupt. So the meta is back because the devs are too lazy to fix their game as usual.
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Because the game is killer sided and Behavior loves it that way. They do not care about is survivors just trying to live. No, they buff literal murderers. Wow!
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Tell that to the DMS + Pain Res artists I've been encountering since the update.
I've seen your comments and you're pretty killer sided so let me ask you this, imagine if a survivor perk was busted and the survivors said "yea but who's going to run that?" As justification for it staying, you and I both know that people WILL run those things because they're busted
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it happened with dead hard for over 5 years cough cough...
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I would believe them. Survivors are boring and never ran any useful perks unless they were HARD meta, thank the heavens above for that. The problem is killer mains are a touch more crafty and will definitely abuse the powerful perks unless they are shamed into not using them... NOED is obviously the one I am talking about.
Heck, I was scared off the record would be in 4 slots every game, but wow did survivor mains surprise me with their... Eccentricity.
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Noed is powerful?
🤭
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Where did anybody say "no one will run dead hard?" Jfc you can't have a conversation on this forums now without killers still bringing up dead hard.
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Killer mains still have nightmares about dab hard. This PTSD will not go away soon. It will haunt them for years to come.
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I know that feeling. Sometimes i wake up covered in sweat and screaming E!
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Oh hi Sluzzy. Hope you're doing well.
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That match vs 4 same skin Meg as Trapper in Crow map was much more fun than I expected, because no Coh, and 1 DH.
DH, Coh, and DS in end game were the only problems. The rest of the change is a mess.
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Pain Resonance and Dead Man Switch is a very fair combo, im glad its back. But MoM nerf was unecessary..
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I'm still not convinced yet, especially if the idea is to get killers away from relying on slowdown perks.
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Slowdown is always the strongest perks. When a match is long enough, items gone, chests gone, pallets gone, the chase from there is only W until down.
Even if Gen time increased more and slowdown perks nerfed further, Killer would still slap in 4 slowdown.
I feel before the patch, you can replace slowdown with Noed to punish survivors not doing totem. Which make the game more depth play that survivors have choice: rushing Gen and risking Noed, or go for totems. Increase Gen time just make survivors refuse to do anything else but Gen. Keep in mind that Survivors supposed to have 5 Gen complete every single match to achieve 2 escape.
There are so many ideas that making objective longer without increase Gen time, at the same time the ideas nerf Gen perks itself.
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Thats no buff, thats a nerf.
You know the Combo is in your game after your first experience with it. After u had the experience then, just let the stupid gen go when the hook-Animations-Aura appears (or just let go every time when a hook comes in play... right?).
30 Sec DMS is a joke, thats literally nothing. Killers need Surveillance for the info, if u just use your brain a bit. So 3 perk-slots gone.
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Survivors complained about holding M1 to mend and how dbd against legion is mennding simulator. Now the devs nerf Thana which is basically useless now. Survivors still complain saying its busted on legion where the percentage has been reduced from 22 to 20 and it only works when everyone is injured meaning one just has to be healthy and thana gives useless 6% gen slowdown. Thana is dead. If you all dont like holding m1 why even do gens? or heal?
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you tell em man.
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Casual survs are the ones that whine the most too
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Sluzzy, everything aside, be honest for 1 second...who ACTUALLY uses MoM
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Killers need more nerfs? ur joking right? Was thana and DMS not enough for you? Do you know that thana is now useless? Do you think legion can always get 4 injures when only one survivor needs to be healthy and thana does not even provide its full potential? by the time legion gets the 4 survivor, someone would have already healed. All the nonsense you blurt out is so biased towards survivors
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You're not being tunneled if you have time to do a gen
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On an unorganized team, yeah, although the update definitely helps with it
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DH nerf is literally the only good change in 6.1, they can keep basekit buffs but gens should go back to 80s, 20-30 min games are way too boring
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I said Thana wasn't nerfed the right way, because it wasn't. It sucks on every other killer except Legion and Plague, the two killers that it was most problematic on. It should've been changed where it's not oppressive like it was, but still worked for every other killer. Also, DMS was barely nerfed to begin with. It still works like it used to and quite frankly it didn't really need nerfed. DMS + Pain Resonance still works the same as it did, so there wasn't really a reason to nerf DMS. And as I said, the PR+DMS combo is easily counterable, but it's still a dumb combo because most randoms don't know how to counter it.
And yes, killers needs some nerfs. Mainly weapon cooldown because STBFL is broken right now and it's nearly impossible to get away from the killer with the survivor Sprint speed nerfed as well. Basekit BT also needs buffed in some way because the current 5 seconds is a complete joke and killers can just wait it out or tunnel through it. Also, camping and tunneling has been worse than it's ever been with DS thrown into the bin, so that also needs to be addressed.
And honestly, this is getting beyond ridiculous. Every time players who play the survivor side have genuine issues/concerns about the survivor role and suggestions to fix it, killer mains will scream "survivor main" or "survivor biased" and complain about said proposed changes without providing any counter arguments or constructive criticism. It's getting tiring at this point.
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It's not fun for soloQ. My biggest criticism is how camping tunneling got hugely buffed. I did that just last match and was not fun for me or survivors I actually felt bad. I did it to just see how effective it is and well I had challenge to sacrifice survivors.
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Hi Sluzzy 😙
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You want all the killer buffs reverted, DH buffed, and perks like DS to not deactivate when progressing your objective?
Yeah good luck with that lol, never going to happen.
Also, why on earth would anyone want the baseline killer buffs reverted, instead of just nerfing tunneling and camping, the strategies that are by far the most annoying thing to deal with as survivor? That makes so little sense.
The devs need to nerf camping and tunneling, and the few slowdown perks that are too strong at the moment. Then I am positive queue times will go back to normal again. Survivors certainly don't need curtches like DH back. DS definitely should have it's 5 second stun back. And the PR and DMS combo also needs to go.
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Thana is definitely also nerfed for Plague and Legion, just not by as much as for other killers.
Otherwise I agree with everything here.
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Its always blanket statements and absolutes with topics like this. "Solo queue is not fun", rather than "I don't have fun with solo queue".
I'm still having fun in solo queue.
Just because solo queue is still fun for me though, doesn't mean solo queue is fun for everyone. You ever notice how that thinking never goes the other way? If its not fun for me it shouldn't be fun for anyone. Well that's just not the case.
I'm sorry solo queue currently isn't fun for you, but there are plenty of people whom think that the changes weren't as bad as everyone is making them out and are having fun playing solo queue.
My survival rate hasn't dipped a huge amount but it has dropped, which was to be expected given the changes.
A trending thread on these forums for a long time is attenuate your game expectations.
This is often applied to killer players, 4 BBQ stacks is a win etc, even MODs and DEVs has expressed this opinion of game outcome. "I like everyone to have fun so I throw games and let everyone escape" Which is fine if that's how you want to play, its also fine to not play like that too.
Well we have a patch that made some serious buffs for general killer play so my advice to anyone playing survivor is attenuate your expectations for a bit. You are gonna die more and it'll slowly equalize out same as always.
Whether you feel bad over a game is up to you but its only a game so playing to win, if you want to, is nothing to feel bad about.
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Hey the ego boost of winning is just as prevalent playing survivor.
The meta was made up of chase extending 1v1 perks and players were very in your face and cocky about it. Its just as much of a "power fantasy boner" (as you eloquently put) as playing killer.
A lot of the knee jerk reaction to the changes is people trying to deal with their current "fantasy boner" impotence, because they are no longer Captain Hero Survivor but rather team mate number 3, which is what they were always meant to be.
The rest of the complaints are still coming from people who were complaining before the patch. At this point their view is so un-objective that it'll never be taken seriously. (At least one can hope it won't).
Busted combos and mechanics will come out in time and hopefully they will be fixed in a timely manner but hey that's not always the case.
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DBD has had countless of things come back but Freddy wasn't one of them. 😥
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Survivor is not unplayable if you are good
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Sadly.
But I will never give up.
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Hi there, I play both sides and let me tell you, having Dead Hard be "more accessible and rewarding" is exactly what the game doesn't need right now. I have been recording the vast majority of my match results and let me tell you, people are using Dead Hard just fine right now, and the people that aren't are using Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced Landing, and Overcome just fine.
The old Dead Hard was a buggy oppressive mess that should not ever return to the light of day.
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Dude, he was literally directly answering the question you asked!
"I've seen your comments and you're pretty killer sided so let me ask you this, imagine if a survivor perk was busted and the survivors said "yea but who's going to run that?" As justification for it staying, you and I both know that people WILL run those things because they're busted"
He replied that there is no need to imagine, it happened for 5 years straight with Dead Hard. It fits the criteria - DH was clearly busted AF yet survivors were claiming left, right & centre that it was perfectly fine.
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Sluzzy, I am so glad you are once again standing up for us survivor mains. You are so ######### based and the forums dont deserve you <3
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it was an example and believe me, i saw people on the steam forum that wrote exactly this, aside the classic "just b8 it m8"... anyway that combo isn't so strong as you think. yes, even on artist... it can be countered quite easily if survivors use their brains...
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