Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
One thing about the new Thanatophobia I see almost everyone get wrong
Hey all,
I've seen this misconception a lot today and therefore felt the need to make this post addressing it.
What I'm talking about is the statement that "Legion and Plague are unaffected by the Thanatophobia nerf" (or variations of it).
I don't think that is a very accurate statement to make. I do believe both Legion and Plague are going to feel the changes to this Perk - they will still be the ones that can make the best usage of it out of all Killers of course, but it will undoubtedly be weaker on them than it previously was.
The main reason why that is lies in the fact that the Perks growth is now exponential: 1 stack does nothing, 2 stacks do nothing, 3 stacks barely do anything and then 4 stacks provide you with a huge slowdown.
Why is this such a big deal you may ask, Legion and Plague are known for being able to quickly reach that 4 stack threshold - and you're right with that, BUT they will struggle at keeping this bonus alive.
Thana counts every hooked, dying and injured Survivor as one stack and for as long as a single Survivor is not in either one of these 3 healthstates, the Perk will be essentially useless (seriously, 6% (which already is a best case scenario) is barely noticeable and hardcountered by Resilience). This means if the Survivor team can focus on having a SINGLE Survivor healed up against either one of these two Killers, they basically get to counter the new Thana alltogether (it'll add less than 5 seconds to a generator and less than a second to cleansing).
And yes you technically speaking don't want to heal against Legion - but healing only a single player is a much easier task to do. It requires a lot less time and it is a lot easier to pull off than keeping as many people healthy as possible, which was the counter to Thanas previous versions. So Survivors invest a lot less time into healing and the Killer going into Feral Frenzy is going to be a lot less effective as a result.
And while Plague gets her fountains from cleansing, all one individual on the Survivor team has to do is be stealthy and avoid infection for as long as possible to buy their team a significant amount of time during which Thana is basically a dead Perk slot (she doesn't get the easy and quick tracking Legion gets, so stealth is actually a viable option now). And again, a single player cleansing against her is a much better counter than everyone having to cleanse, as was the case before.
So a single player healing / cleansing with the new Thana has basically the same impact as 3 Survivors healing / cleansing with Thana prior to the changes.
But that is not all yet! Remember the 3 states that are counted by Thana, that being hooked, dying and injured? Yeah Thana doesn't include dead or sacrificed.
What this means is, that Thana now basically does the same thing as the reworked Hex: Ruin, which deactivates as soon as the first Survivor is killed by any means. As soon as any Killer gets their first Kill, Thana will drop from a maximum 20% slowdown for everyone being injured all the way down to a maximum 6% slowdown for everyone being injured. So it is a lot less effective in the later stages of the game once the Killer has achieved a kill, yet at the early stages it is also quite hard to get and most importantly maintain the 4 stack bonus.
So, are Legion and Plague still the Killers that can make the most usage out of Thanatophobia? Undoubtedly yes.
But is the Perk as good, or even close to that, as it was prior to the rework on them? I strongly believe it not to be. It is just too easy to get rid ofnow, even on those two Killers.
I genuinely don't know if I'd still run the Perk on either one to be honest. Other slowdowns (like the freshly reenabled DMS + PR) or Perks that give those Killers a better chance in chases would probaply end up replacing Thana on them for me.
But let me know what you think - do you agree or do you think I got it all wrong? Am I missing anything crucial that would drastically change my opinion on the Perk? Tell me down below!
Comments
-
No, I agree with you. It's no longer worth it on legion imo. Plague at least can get a fountain out of it if someone does cleanse though.
4 -
I agree completely. I feel like I've been arguing at a wall with people who have powerful and unshakable convictions that one should never heal vs. Legion.
Of course you can heal vs. Legion. So long as it is efficient to do so! Denying an entire killer perk slot at the cost of keeping one person uninjured is very much worth it. And not even difficult in any way.
1 -
It's not that healing against Legion is always a bad idea. It's just that a lot of the time it is a bad idea and a lot of survivors heal against legion when they shouldn't.
With new thana, yes, it absolutely is worth it for one survivor to heal just to severely cut the penalty.
1 -
I never favored Thana in all its forms. There are plenty of other perks in the sea.
1 -
I don't think anyone will run new Thana.
In addition to what you brought up, the main thing Thana had going for it was that it was far more reliable than any other anti Gen perk. With this nerf, it has lost nearly all of its reliability since the survivors can remove 70% of the perk via finishing a single heal.
I see zero reason for killers to run Thana over Eruption, Jolt, Pain Res, Call of Brine, or even Overcharge in spite of it being worse than a dry kick for 12s. Heck, with the addition of the mini pop on every kick, Brutal Strength might be a more reliable anti Gen perk than Thana.
1 -
Funnily enough, Brutal Strength was the exact Perk that came to my mind when I mentioned picking "Perks that help them in chase" over new Thana.
Honestly, if a Perk gets outshined by Brutal Strength as a gamedelay Perk, that should be a big red flag that something is wrong xD
But I mean, maybe Thana will continue to see some usage on Plague? As I mentioned, at least she can get fountains out of it. It's going to be quite nieche though...
2 -
It's not the "new" Thanatophobia, it's the same old one just pretty much worthless, not worth for any build really
0 -
Well, it's the newest version of it, hence the "new".
And since I'm mentioning both the new version and the old versions of Thana in this, I feel it is important to clearly seperate the two in order to avoid possible confusion.
0 -
You can use the buttom addon that makes them broken once they heal from deep wound.
Or just tunnel someone out - thats 1 less person that needs to be injured for it to work.
0 -
I think Thana will very much still be strong on Plague, with Legion I am not sure. But you are right, the perks are nerfed even for those two. Even, or especially, during early game, before all 4 survivors are injured.
It's a shame they had to nerf Thana in a way that makes it useless on every killer but Plague and Legion, and only potentially viable on those two killers. But I still rather have it in it's current state than in it's ridiculous state it was before the patch.
1 -
Nope, tunneling someone out doesn't work.
it needs to have 4 Survivors either injured, dying or hooked. As soon as one person dies that is no longer possible and the 20% slowdown is unobtainable from that point onwards.
1 -
I don't play plague, but for everyone discussing legion and thana: My legion build so far has a 90% win rate, and its the same one I was running before the patch, after the patch, and after the thana nerf. Ten times better than thana anyway.
Irridescent button, julies mixtape, with enduring, spirit fury, jolt, and w/e fourth perk.
I'm using overcharge currently but am expecting a nerf there too so may start trying deadlock or some other gen regression perk. Maybe nurses calling. For some insane reason everyone has started healing against legion again. I may not know my mmr, but I do know I'm always iri1 and the swfs are sweaty, so I am unsure why my survivors are healing but helps me out when they do so I'm not complaining.
iridescent button, Julies mixtape, with enduring, spirit fury, jolt, overcharge/any perk.
legion being so fast and ignoring pallets, even on the game I demolish. Everyone is going to MISS thana legion once people realize it wasn't even the strongest build. Doesn't matter what the gen speed is when every chase ends pretty much immediately. Like seriously we need to address how certain complaints from both sides are directly correlated to their mmr and skill level. Idk how many people really cared about thana across all skill levels. I ran thana on legion occasionally before, not denying it was powerful. But all the gen regression time in the world doesn't make up for long chases point blank. I think my thana build had maybe 80-85% win rate. Still good but frankly you can always kick gens, plus once 1-2 survivors die gens don't matter its' a hatch game for the last two. Ending chases quick and killing one or two people while 3-4 gens pop is better than slowly letting the gens get done during longer chases IMO.
1 -
The time two survs use up healing one is the same waste as the time they would sit together on the gen while thana is active. Its just a lose-lose-situation as survivor vs legion. Also legion just frenzys you anyway again. its just not worth it to heal. and against plague its another lose-lose-situation: slowdown or power. both still massively benefit from thana. its just a fake change.
1
