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SWF shouldnt and never should be nerfed
punishing players for playing with their friends is straight up cruel and you gotta take into account that not all players have thousands of hours and not all SWFs are in comms what are your thoughts on this though personally i find the swf nerf debate to be confusing
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I think the issue is you can't really nerf SWF without nerfing soloq, which isn't great as is. And like you said, you shouldn't punish people for playing with friends.
The solution is getting soloq as close to SWF as possible with icons of what you're doing/quick communication texts, then balancing killers around that. But survivor teammates are so abysmal, I'm not even sure adding icons or quick chat options would help.
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gigachad
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And as such, killer mains deserve a killer powerful enough to beat or at least compete with the best SWF, which is why Nurse should never be nerfed.
I do agree that people playing with their friends shouldn't be punished.
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wdym???? what about solo queue? youre just punishing them and trust me 95% of swf's arent gods, and awful point saying nurse doesnt need to be nerfed thats a different discussion nothing to do with swf, if anything solo queue needs to be more like swf or killers should get to know who is swf so they can use some counterplay like being unpredictable yknow
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I think people should be encouraged to play with friends to be honest. A lot of the games I play have benefits for playing with others, like bonus XP and stuff. I feel like DbD should boost the BP gains of survivors for playing with friends (and boost the BP gains of the killer for facing a SWF).
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thatd be really cool but its bhvr they hate bloodpoints
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I mean it's kind of frustrating as well, since it will help reduce the grind even more AND it encourages more people to get their friends to play (boosting the player count and potential profits). I feel like it would make the game healthier (suggesting that SWF and SoloQ are on the same level of course), maybe even make the community a bit better since people who play alone might even be encouraged to go and meet people to play with.
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It has everything to do with swf.
I'm not punishing anyone, the game should be fair for both sides. If Survivors can bypass the game mechanics and perks using outside communication, so too should killers be able to do so, using Nurse.
Solos shouldn't be facing top tier Nurse in the first place. Potato solo players should only be put up against Nurses of the same skill level. 95% of Nurses aren't pros at the game, most of them can be countered.
Solo queues problem has always been, and will always be, poor match making along with players who have different goals in the game. It isn't Nurse.
Post edited by Huge_Bush on22 -
it'll never be nerfed most people who suggest swf nerfs get rightfully mocked by everyone in the community
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Comms themselves are never really an issue if you're doing what you should be doing on killer. I look at it like: I'm doing things on killer based on what the survivors should be doing, and I don't care if they're calling out what I'm doing if I'm doing the correct thing. It's up to them to adjust to me, and I'll adjust to them.
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A more positive thing to say would be making the game more fun and fair for the killer role rather than "punishing" people for playing with their friends. It doesn't matter though, everyone knows that SWF doesn't give any advantages, Scott and Tofu told me so
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Then the only (and I mean ONLY) alternative is 1) finding a way to bring solo que to SWF levels, and 2) buff every single killer in the game to SWF level
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As long as there is an S tier killer on the same power level than swf is fine. If there is simply nothing that can contest them then they gotta get nerfed.
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No, SWF should not be nerfed. That said, it is too strong. For whatever reason, the game was originally designed for 4 survivors who can't communicate. There was no invite option. So, they need to balance the game around SWF play capabilities. Buff solo que survivors to have similar information and buff killers to compensate.
That would mitigate the swf impact on killers, especially M1 killers.
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They need to buff killers and SoloQ to a similar level as SWF at least. They have such a tremendous advantage and pretty much every aura reading perk for free. Kind of goes out of the game balance since this game as of know isin't meant for the survivors to have the exact location of killers, pallets, and gens for 0 sacrifice.
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"You can't nerf survivors (in team, optionally on comms) without nerfing survivors."
There i corrected it.
There are no in-trial game-mechanic differences between "solo" and "swf". The only differences are the pre-lobby and getting back to that lobby after the trial.
Real differences are comms and the survivors' behavior, agency, cameradery, goals and strategies.
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I still think there should be survivor action icons, and all 5 players should get access to them. The only fair way to compensate the killer for the extra advantages survivors get when they use voice communication, is for the killer to also get extra game information.
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I agree it’ll never be nerfed, but I find it interesting that a statement and a thread like this were made. It’s almost like just the idea threatens/scares people. No one deserves ridicule for having an unpopular opinion/hot take. It’s just a difference of opinion and nothing immoral.
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At this point the game isn’t what it was once, so for me it has been made more balanced around SWF, considering how many slow down and aura perks there are. The game is no longer about immersion as much as it was. More than 50% of the time the killer knows where you are.
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I’m sorry but I find it totally disingenuous when people say buff solo queue to swf level and then buff killers to compensate. What swf level killer buffs are survivors willing to accept? Killers can kick things 10% faster and whole 10 seconds were added to gens, and people lost their minds. I find it very hard to believe survivor mains would be cool with killers being buffed to A and S tier only in order to compete with swf like squads every game lol.
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But why does the killer deserve to auto-lose matches against other survivor teams who want to win, simply because you want to play with your friends? If you're just playing with your friends, then clearly you're playing chill and not making it your main focus to win, but the killer still is and he still can't beat you because of the coordination and time saving you get for free by using comms. Now take that and apply it to a team of 4 survivors who are near-perfectly efficient with gens and with chases. They should be beating the killer basically every time if they don't make several huge mistakes.
If you're going to have a 3rd party advantage over the killer, you should be debuffed. Otherwise, it's not fair to the killer or to solos that the game has to be balanced around your brokenness.
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On top of doing all of that to improve solo queue, also fix matchmaking. That'd be a huge help too.
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They say before they think. Like when they say, "It's JUST 5 seconds of base BT that the killer has to wait out." That is a monumental survivor buff, but it got swept under the rug "because tunneling still exists." 🤷
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People lost their minds because solo queue was left in the dust. Every suggestion around buffing solo to swf level and killers around that all stipulated that it should happen at the same time. Killer buffs and solo buffs should happen simultaneously.
We both know that's not what happened.
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Why can't you nerf SWF without nerfing solos? Imagine there was debuff SWF got that didn't affect solos, and that's just off the top of my head.
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SWF could have limits placed on it so you can't be a bully squad.
Add restriction : No repeated characters/perks/items in a SWF group.
Add Overhead icons to each survivor. Non repeated perks are in Blue (and look like the Vigil buff) and repeated perks are in red (like when debuffed by Monstrous Srhine.
Since most SWF groups are 2 people this has almost no effect on the majority of players.
Since having 3-4 people in a SWF is a huge advantage this will limit their ability to bully killers.
You still get to play with your friends and you aren't punished. You just play by a ruleset that is already being enforced in tournaments to make the game more fair for killer. If you don't like it then you can always play solo.
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It is the same argument as why SoloQ players or casuals deserved to be destroyed by killers overbuffed to face swat SWF at the other end of MMR?
If you play with friends that are relatively new to dbd they also dont deserve to be hardtunneled by most killer they go against
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How do you know they're going to be tunneled just because they're new? If matchmaking is working as intended, they should be going against some killers they're level, maybe some killers your level, and maybe some killers in-between, which was an anti-smurf measure baked into the MMR system. Neither solos nor SWF are given a safe zone just because.
But you're comparing apples to oranges anyway. You went from the buffs and debuffs conversation to suddenly talking about playstyle. Tunneling is a playstyle just like being altruistic is a playstyle, but being efficient (in the case of SWF) is not, and that's the one thing you've left out.
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First of all, matchmaking truly does not work well, at least not in my region. I am not in a high MMR as i dont escape very often(700h i have), but still i (very) frecuently play against +3000h nurses or blights that are clearly good players.
Second, when i mention about tunneling is because i assume you understand that the basekit killer buffs are increasing the amount of games the killers tunnels, as they have more time and surv have shorter chases.
Said that, it is not that i KNOW that my friends will be tunneled in a way of me assuming the outcome of the game before playing, it is what has been happening to my friends in most games. I dont know if killer read the steam profile of players, or see if they have classic outfit or sth like that but most games the killer runs straight to my 50h-100h friend to tunnel him out of the game as quickly as possible.
It is a sad state for casual players
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they shouldn't be nerfed indeed... it's sufficient to relegate this feature in custom matches (KYF), in that way solo survivors will be buffed as concequences...
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The number one reason for solo queue being bad is bad survivors. If survivors collectively play the same way they do when they play in swfs, it wouldn’t be so bad. Do gens, save teammates when you can, be willing to trade etc. it’s still the same game we all play every round. The only difference is that the weak links in solo queue cannot be carried by their swfs and as such weigh the whole team down. But somehow I’m supposed to believe that all we need to do is buff solo queue and then survivor mains would accept buffing every killer up to A/S tier to compensate? Lmao it’s laughable. If all killers were that good your solo queue experience would still suck because you’d still have bad survivors but against stronger killers.
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Buff solo queue and fix matchmaking, yes.
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I always, always said for years that SWF is too strong because of the comms, this simple fact is absolutely disgusting and game breaking, i always pleaded for a killer buff whan he is vs a 3 and 4 survs teams, not to be smoked, but only to be more balanced, you can't fairly compete vs SWF, it's obvious !
Swf communicates, so they always knows where you are and what you do, this is absolutely game breaking, especially for stealth killers, and you got bullied because they synchronise themselves. It kill the immersion for you, and they don't fear you.
Give one more perk to killers when he deal with a 3/4 SWF.
It will not compensate the comms, but it will help being a little less destroyed/bullied.
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Of course solos must be buffed with info, same as killers must be buffed to SWF level which is a nerf to SWF but why must SWF be strongest in the game? SWF and killer should be equal and solo q as close to them as possible in my opinion.
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No we arent gonna nerf swf we will nerf surv
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You cannot have it both ways, if SWFs need to remain as they are then you cannot then pull the solo queue card to justify nerfing killers.
You don't want restrictions placed on SWF, then killers need to be made with them in mind. Solo queue should also be buffed, considering that SWFs are in the game as well.
Stating the balance and strength of killers are unrelated to SWFs is incorrect, both sides need to face each other and need to be able to stand a chance. BHVR should embrace the fact that SWFs are in the game and apply the changes needed. It is why 6.1 was received poorly, as solo survivors should had simultaneously received buffs. This first the one side then the other.... Is just I'll advised.
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So good swfs are allowed to be as good as they are but there can't be killers to match them. I agree nurse needs some changes, but if blight and nurse receive changes there is nothing left to contest them. Just as good swfs stomp most killers the same can be said for nurse. Either they both get adjusted or they have to stay the same
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I'm still pretty sure the main reason they won't ever nerf SWFs is because they don't even know how to track SWFs, especially since they added crossplay. If i'm wrong they could just show at the end of the game who was playing with friends and who not. Wouldn't that be good for data?
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Just buff Non SWF, what the problem with adding "predefined radio messages" that survivros could speak to each other on small distance.
Heal, Help, repair or run :P
I repair. You heal :D
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SWF shouldn't be nerfed, solo-q just needs more attention, and killers balanced around SWF. As others mentioned the real set back in solo-q is information, providing it and getting it. Comms and coordination is great, but even basic things would help out solo.
Knowing if a killer is camping (base kindred).
Status indicator next to portraits, showing when someone is working on a gen, in the process of healing themselves or another, in the middle of an action like cleansing/booning/exit gate.
A ping system or POI, so someone can let the team know when they find something like a hex totem, but have no opportunity to go for it themselves as the killers onto them. Even ping a gen that you were close to finishing but have been chased off it.
Dying state survivors, if when you approach them an icon indicating if they are fully recovered and ready to go. The amount of times i've managed to get a little bit of distance on the killer to reach the survivor only to find out they haven't recovered at all or only partially.
Obviously there's great perks, but there's so many and tough to decide what to bring when you have no idea what the other players in your lobby are bringing. You shouldn't have to bring a certain set of perks every single game, just for them to become meta and be nerfed in a later patch. Some items would just be far better as basekit.
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MMR merely attempts to find you a balanced match. If it can't, you get whatever because we can't have long queue times.
This is blatantly false, as confirmed by MandyTalk in a previous thread. The game was always intended to have swf, and it is intended for them to be communicating. The feature simply wasn't ready at launch.
Absolutely not. As I said above, swf is an intended feature. It is also intended for them to be communicating. All this would accomplish is making swf players quit or lobby dodge until they got each other. Both of these would skyrocket queue times and do absolutely nothing to help solo queue.
Tournament players represent less than 1% of the player base. They have their own rules because of their skill level. Making swf play by a ruleset that only applies to swf is punishing them for playing with their friends.
Out of all swfs, bully squads represent less than 1% and are few and far between.
Nurse needs to be reworked from the ground up. Nurse is an outdated killer that can never truly be considered balanced without absolutely gutting her.
Instead, maps should be reduced in size, solo's buffed to close the gap between swf, the survivor role then nerfed as a whole and killers buffed accordingly based on those changes.
If killers can get downs at a consistent pace, then all that communication you're all so worried about isn't going to matter. I don't recall who said this, but it's a statement that definitely rings true.
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As long as all of your suggestions are implemented at the same time or before reworking her then sure, rework her. But gutting her like so many whining children want, without reducing map sizes and obscene strong loops and tiles, and making things fair for all killers to compete with the power of SWF, shouldn’t happen.
We all know it’ll never happen. It’s too much work for the devs to actually go into every map and balance them to be fair. They like how the game has crap rng. They also know reworking Nurse will alienate a large portion of the player base, which is why they didn’t touch her powers when they rewrote her code.
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Gutting her like the whining children want wouldn't balance the game, so we're in agreeance.
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It's funny how people believe in those lies, you know? If that was the case then information perks like bond, kindred, premonition, spine chill, etc etc shouldn't be here in the 1st place... They told so because they gain money from it, without mentioning that people want to play with their friends, hence why in the beginning they had the problem of lobby dodging until people find their friends in the same lobby so they were forced to add that feature, without thinking at the balance of the game doing so... the game wasn't thinked with swf in mind, you like it or not... Remember that devs before adding 10 seconds to generators also said that genspeed was fine and generators didn't needed to be adressed...
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I do not think swf should be nerfed yet. The priority should be a solo Q fix and then I would address this. Now SWF has some things that may make a game pretty unbalanced, like the fact that everyone can know where is the killer when someone is being chased, there is an Object of Obsession or when someone sees him from afar. Making pressure against a SWF is very difficult sometimes, as they often repair strategically to make things difficult for the killer. Yes, you can sometimes outplay them, but you'll often need a miracle. Due to this, sometimes you will not rank up as you should (before the rank update I could not get to purple ranks because of the SWF groups and now I have awful times with them that lower my MMR for sure). The ideal solution would be the famous competitive mode, a gamemode that could only be played solo and that would affect the ranks and the MMR, alongside the casual mode, that could be played with friends, would not take in count or afect the ranks and MMR and I think that DCing penalties should not be applied to it.
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Isn't that the strat touted the world-over? To find and tunnel a clear weak link out of the game to force a 1v3. That at least seems like a common idea to me.
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But how does the killer, who has as little experience as the survivor they're facing (if matchmaking is working right), know to tunnel the weak link? The survivors at this level aren't bothering to search up "how to counter tunneling" so the killers wouldn't be searching up "how to kill efficiently" either. Everyone at this level is going in trying to figure out for themselves how to win, and probably haven't even asked the community about anything because they don't even know yet that this community exists. Y'all are just assuming that it's only ever going to be an experienced killer against inexperienced survivors, and that's really where we've gone wrong with survivor-sided balancing.
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...What SWF nerf debate?
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You can't claim it's a lie if you have no evidence to support your claim.
As we are not privy to their development process, we can only take what they say at face-value.
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Splitting the player base will only hurt the game more than it'd help.
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