Why does decisive strike need a nerf?

donato

It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

Orion

Imagine a Killer perk that allowed them to go to a fully repaired generator and immediately put it at 50% repair status. Now imagine they could do it up to four times, but they could only do it to any generator once. That's Decisive Strike.

DS prolongs chases by 50% and essentially punishes the Killer for catching someone. On bad Survivors it's hardly noticeable, but when the Survivor knows all the loops, it all but guarantees that Survivor will escape.

Wolf74

Or just imagine the killer could pick a perk that would actually be like DS.
Let us call it "decisive attack".
"2/3/4 survivor start the match exposed. This status is removed after they got downed once."

How would you like that?
DS makes a 2 hit chase a 3 hit chase, this perk would make a 2 hit chase a 1 hit chase.
Would you like that?

Malakir

donato said:

It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

How exactly is counterble unless you got lucky been close to a hook wasting time dribbling?

Very unlikely to activate on non obsession, also very arguable

MojoTheFabulous

DS having counters is a confusing statement.

ShyN3ko

@donato said:
It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

Ok, explain it.
How to counter DS without using a other perk in every situation.

The_Crusader

Lmao DS can NOT truly be countered. That's the entire issue with it. Enduring lessens the sting but that's it.

You can not win high rank games as killer by just walking around and hooking people 12 times. You need to snowball pressure.

Decisive Strike requires no effort on the part of the survivor and can undo all of the killers effort in an instant. Just the other day I had 1 on hook, 1 slugged, I carry 1 towards a hook, take a DS, he manages to tap M1 to pick the other up, and they pull the other off the hook and I was back at square one again. All that from 1 survivor pressing 1 button.

It also grants them a free victory if the exit gate/hatch is open and there is not a single thing the killer can do about it other than pray they miss the skillcheck.

And multiple DS hurts a killers momentum and time-effiency so bad it can cost them the game.

You must play survivor because only survivors can't see what's wrong with it. I get that. I've tried it as a survivor, it doesn't feel thst powerful for you in the grand scheme of things. Its just one escape.

As killer you feel how bullshit it is though. Literally anyone whose ever played videogames knows how bullshit it is. It utterly shafts the killer and again there is no reliable way to counter it. It shouldn't be in a videogame. Any designer worth his salary knows this. So the most shocking question is why is it in a videogame as big as DBD?

Decisive strike is the kind of perk that a 12 year kid would dream up one day thinking it would sound cool.

I can not believe a team of grown men (and women) actually sat down from start to finish and designed and implemented a perk like this and left it in the game for TWO ######### YEARS!

Poweas

Forcing a killer to chase u down again is NOT balanced. Unless its nurse . As Nurse juggling survivors takes way more time then actually eating the DS believe it or not. Or if it's my Hag since they always walk into my traps it's funny. But for the other killers it's a ######### nightmare.

HatCreature

D-Strike was only brought it in because that is exactly what Laurie did in the film Halloween film with a needle and a wire hanger, I think we're lucky the Devs didn't let DS have 2 hits as she did in the film, this game would completely unplayable then.

Also I think Wolf74 actually found a cool opposite to D-Strike for Killers but a balanced version would be every Survivor is Exposed until one of them goes down the first time, then everyone is back to normal. Of course if you're Leatherface of Hillbilly, even Myers, if they use their power they could get in two hits since it isn't technically a normal hit. I know Survivors cry about NOED all the time and this would be a weak version of NOED but it's just like DS where NOED is everyone until the totem is destroyed. I think we need this to balance out the game.

thesuicidefox

DS is only OP in that more than 1 survivor can use it. If you eat 1 DS that can hurt you pretty bad as killer depending on when and how it happens (and whether or not you are in a position to counter it). Eating 2 or more DS's will likely be a loss for killer. Especially considering those non-obsession DS's hit you without much warning and can REALLY screw you because you weren't expecting it. And even if you did, the extra time loss is massive.

Only obsession should be able to use DS. If you want to use your DS put on other obsession perks to be sure you are an obsession.

Wolf74

@HatCreature said:
D-Strike was only brought it in because that is exactly what Laurie did in the film Halloween film with a needle and a wire hanger, I think we're lucky the Devs didn't let DS have 2 hits as she did in the film, this game would completely unplayable then.

Also I think Wolf74 actually found a cool opposite to D-Strike for Killers but a balanced version would be every Survivor is Exposed until one of them goes down the first time, then everyone is back to normal. Of course if you're Leatherface of Hillbilly, even Myers, if they use their power they could get in two hits since it isn't technically a normal hit. I know Survivors cry about NOED all the time and this would be a weak version of NOED but it's just like DS where NOED is everyone until the totem is destroyed. I think we need this to balance out the game.

Thx, but why should one down change the status of the rest?
Serious… DS can be used multiple times on the killer.
That's the whole point that of my critic. If DS would be a true "one time use", it would not be as bad as it is, but I had matches with 3 DS against me.

The_Crusader

Even 1 player only is still too much.

In many situations it grants that person a 100% guarenteed escape and there is nothing the killer csn do about it.

only1biggs

DS is absolute BS, but it can still be played around, even if there are non obsession DS users. Slugging, dribbling, making sure you zone them toward hooks before you down them, dropping them from heights, dropping in corners to body block, delayed dribble of non obsession (count to 6 before one dribble to a hook if you've zoned correctly) etc.

I posted this screen shot a while ago to mock someone else who was saying that 4DS users with flashlights are impossible to beat. It needs to be changed, but there are some counter plays. I know for a fact I've won more games against these types of players than I've lost, but I had to learn how...

WhiteAqua7

There is DS and then there is nurse with 3 blinks bbq, ruin, noed and an ebony mori

HatCreature

@Wolf74 said:

@HatCreature said:
D-Strike was only brought it in because that is exactly what Laurie did in the film Halloween film with a needle and a wire hanger, I think we're lucky the Devs didn't let DS have 2 hits as she did in the film, this game would completely unplayable then.

Also I think Wolf74 actually found a cool opposite to D-Strike for Killers but a balanced version would be every Survivor is Exposed until one of them goes down the first time, then everyone is back to normal. Of course if you're Leatherface of Hillbilly, even Myers, if they use their power they could get in two hits since it isn't technically a normal hit. I know Survivors cry about NOED all the time and this would be a weak version of NOED but it's just like DS where NOED is everyone until the totem is destroyed. I think we need this to balance out the game.

Thx, but why should one down change the status of the rest?
Serious… DS can be used multiple times on the killer.
That's the whole point that of my critic. If DS would be a true "one time use", it would not be as bad as it is, but I had matches with 3 DS against me.

True, I was thinking of a way to appease those who get itchy about this subject, a compromise but in all seriousness, I don't think a compromise can be made because no one truly gets it. It can be countered but that counter is VERY SITUATIONAL, there is no real counter that can be used every time.

Auspun

@Wolf74 said:
Or just imagine the killer could pick a perk that would actually be like DS.
Let us call it "decisive attack".
"2/3/4 survivor start the match exposed. This status is removed after they got downed once."

How would you like that?
DS makes a 2 hit chase a 3 hit chase, this perk would make a 2 hit chase a 1 hit chase.
Would you like that?

Devil's advocate but that's NOED (except at the start rather than end). And yeah it's possible to counter by cleansing all totems but searching for them takes up time that could be spent towards escaping, especially if you're solo because then you have no clue how competent your others are or if they're cleaning totems

And while D-Strike doesn't have a way to get rid of it in advance, it does have the Obsession to indicate that there's at least one person with it so if you see someone as the Obsession then you can adjust accordingly, whether that's chasing towards hooks, waiting til they're close enough to a hook to be able to pick up or dribble, or angling yourself so that if they strike they'll be dropped into a corner.

It's also notable that D-strikes aren't an automatic thing but a skill check, I'm sure they're hit more often at higher ranks but still not a guarantee. I usually go against killers in the lvl 10-8 range and the number of games where _any _of the survivors have an Obsession period is maybe 1/4 games, a fraction that can get reduced further depending on if killer is running Obsession perks (or if they're running a survivor Obsession perk like OoO, unlikely I know)

I think any nerf intended like making it Obsession-only should have other effects if you've not the Obsession so it's not a wasted perk slot

Zarathos

WhiteAqua7 said:

There is DS and then there is nurse with 3 blinks bbq, ruin, noed and an ebony mori

So were doing comparisons ok. How about ds,adreanline,dead hard and self care 2x ultra rare instas, 2x commodious toolbox. 4x purple mist and survivour comms. Still think thats not winnable for survivour. Look up depip squad theyll show you how powerful a survivour team can be with the nastiest layouts possible. 

Wolf74

@Auspun said:

@Wolf74 said:
Or just imagine the killer could pick a perk that would actually be like DS.
Let us call it "decisive attack".
"2/3/4 survivor start the match exposed. This status is removed after they got downed once."

How would you like that?
DS makes a 2 hit chase a 3 hit chase, this perk would make a 2 hit chase a 1 hit chase.
Would you like that?

Devil's advocate but that's NOED (except at the start rather than end). And yeah it's possible to counter by cleansing all totems but searching for them takes up time that could be spent towards escaping, especially if you're solo because then you have no clue how competent your others are or if they're cleaning totems

And while D-Strike doesn't have a way to get rid of it in advance, it does have the Obsession to indicate that there's at least one person with it so if you see someone as the Obsession then you can adjust accordingly, whether that's chasing towards hooks, waiting til they're close enough to a hook to be able to pick up or dribble, or angling yourself so that if they strike they'll be dropped into a corner.

It's also notable that D-strikes aren't an automatic thing but a skill check, I'm sure they're hit more often at higher ranks but still not a guarantee. I usually go against killers in the lvl 10-8 range and the number of games where _any _of the survivors have an Obsession period is maybe 1/4 games, a fraction that can get reduced further depending on if killer is running Obsession perks (or if they're running a survivor Obsession perk like OoO, unlikely I know)

I think any nerf intended like making it Obsession-only should have other effects if you've not the Obsession so it's not a wasted perk slot

Your not really "right" about it (although I neither call you completely wrong). But...
Noed only works after all gens are done, which is a completely different momentum of the game.
DS can be used right from the get go and since this game has a lot of snowball potential this momentrum is really important.
And like you already mentioned, Noed can get destroyed before it ever starts working, unlike DS.

Mister_Holdout

It's a free escape in a game where killers are already under-powered verse good survivors.

C'mon now.

Auspun

@Mister_Holdout said:
It's a free escape in a game where killers are already under-powered verse good survivors.

C'mon now.

People keep saying survivors are overpowered but BHVR showed the stats on one of their streams in November (I believe the 15th?) and even at rank one across platforms, percentage of survivors escaping is 40-45%. Getting average 2 kills out of 4 possible sounds fairly fair to me (although I wish they'd drill down further and have shared the rates per character)

Wolf74

@Auspun said:

@Mister_Holdout said:
It's a free escape in a game where killers are already under-powered verse good survivors.

C'mon now.

People keep saying survivors are overpowered but BHVR showed the stats on one of their streams in November (I believe the 15th?) and even at rank one across platforms, percentage of survivors escaping is 40-45%. Getting average 2 kills out of 4 possible sounds fairly fair to me (although I wish they'd drill down further and have shared the rates per character)

Those stats most likely included DCs as "kill".
Also matches where less than 4 spawned had been included.
And snowballing from 1 DCing, ragequitting or suiciding on the hook have been included.
Same for overaltruistic plays, where 3 could have escaped, but they tried to "safe em all" and got rekt.
Or just outright overconfident survivor that played cocky to farm some point instead of leaving.

As long as survivor do not NEED to survive to rank up, these stats are pointless.

Master

@donato said:
It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

Counterable? elaborate please
Unlikely to activate when its non-obsession? Explain please

Cymer

@WhiteAqua7 said:
There is DS and then there is nurse with 3 blinks bbq, ruin, noed and an ebony mori

THATS EXACTLY WHATS WRONG WITH DS!
You compare ONE perk with the strongest killer in the game, with 3 specific perks, add-ons and a rare item.
You can use DS every game, but with 3 blink and mori you have to grind for these items and add-ons after every use.

WhiteAqua7

Cymer said:

@WhiteAqua7 said:
There is DS and then there is nurse with 3 blinks bbq, ruin, noed and an ebony mori

THATS EXACTLY WHATS WRONG WITH DS!
You compare ONE perk with the strongest killer in the game, with 3 specific perks, add-ons and a rare item.
You can use DS every game, but with 3 blink and mori you have to grind for these items and add-ons after every use.

I'm saying that DS no where near as strong as that but I agree that it needs to be changed. 3 blinks however is stronger than any crutch in the game.

Wolf74

@WhiteAqua7 said:
Cymer said:

@WhiteAqua7 said:

There is DS and then there is nurse with 3 blinks bbq, ruin, noed and an ebony mori

THATS EXACTLY WHATS WRONG WITH DS!

You compare ONE perk with the strongest killer in the game, with 3 specific perks, add-ons and a rare item.

You can use DS every game, but with 3 blink and mori you have to grind for these items and add-ons after every use.

I'm saying that DS no where near as strong as that but I agree that it needs to be changed. 3 blinks however is stronger than any crutch in the game.

So you compare 3 blinks which needs either 2 add ons 1 very rare add on to get with a perk that doesn't need anything else…?
Gotcha.^^

TheLegendDyl4n1

@donato said:
It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

it doesnt as long as NOED exists as it is

Wolf74

@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:

@donato said:
It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

it doesnt as long as NOED exists as it is

yawn
The old troupe.
DS and Noed are NOT different sides of the same coin.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
DS is way better than Noed.
Have you every seen DS destroyed before you could use it?

TheLegendDyl4n1

@Wolf74 said:

@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:

@donato said:
It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

it doesnt as long as NOED exists as it is

yawn
The old troupe.
DS and Noed are NOT different sides of the same coin.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
DS is way better than Noed.
Have you every seen DS destroyed before you could use it?

with ds you can juggle the survivor, with noed you can destroy all of the totems. DS gives a free escape from the killers grasp, NOED gives a free exposed effect and we dont even get the luxury of knowing you have NOED its a suprise unlike DS. not apples and oranges because they both are OP

Wolf74

@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:

@Wolf74 said:

@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:

@donato said:
It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

it doesnt as long as NOED exists as it is

yawn
The old troupe.
DS and Noed are NOT different sides of the same coin.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
DS is way better than Noed.
Have you every seen DS destroyed before you could use it?

with ds you can juggle the survivor, with noed you can destroy all of the totems. DS gives a free escape from the killers grasp, NOED gives a free exposed effect and we dont even get the luxury of knowing you have NOED its a suprise unlike DS. not apples and oranges because they both are OP

DS works from the get go. You do not have to wait for it till all gens are done.
That's a huge momentum advantage.
This is only comparable to a perk that would expose all survivors right from the start.
How would you like a DS that only works after all gens are done and that could be destroyed in advance?
Don't even pretend they are on the same level.

GraviteaUK

You ever tried to juggle a survivor when his mate is trying to torch you in the face and then moves to block your hook?

Dribbling gives them free wiggle and you spend time picking them up and putting them down, it's not a counter at all.

And NoED means actually catching them again and they don't stop it activating in the first place, and don't find it while you are chasing someone else.

TheCatLady

Both DS and NOED are second chance perks that can be denied and I don't understand crying about one while defending the other. One grants a one-time free escape IF you can hit the skill check, while the other puts exposed on everyone IF dull totems aren't cleansed. Just accept them as features of the game and work around them, it's really not that hard.

Condorloco_26

Guys, just live with it. DS is untouchable. Freddy will get pimped 3x. Hell, Bubba will get a rework before anyone touches DS.

Wolf74

@TheCatLady said:
Both DS and NOED are second chance perks that can be denied and I don't understand crying about one while defending the other. One grants a one-time free escape IF you can hit the skill check, while the other puts exposed on everyone IF dull totems aren't cleansed. Just accept them as features of the game and work around them, it's really not that hard.

DS and Noed are NOT "the same".
-Noed has a build in counter.
-The skillcheck is not a good argument for a better effect, because that is only a badly designe force multiplier; bad player who would need such 2nd chance perks, can't hit the check and those good player who are already powerful and hit the check every time are recieving to big of an advantage.
-DS changes the momentum of the game, early in the match, where the effect is much greater. If it denies early pressure on the team it is worth way more than something that only starts working at the endgame of the match.
-DS is not a "one time use" perk, because it is "one time" PER survivor taking it.

DocFabron

WhiteAqua7 said:

There is DS and then there is nurse with 3 blinks bbq, ruin, noed and an ebony mori

But DS you're going to run into 99% more often than that.

Theluckyboi

@Malakir said:
donato said:

It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

How exactly is counterble unless you got lucky been close to a hook wasting time dribbling?

Very unlikely to activate on non obsession, also very arguable

R A N C O R
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xmenfanatic

I feel like DS shouldn’t be a perk, but there should be one item per a game in a chest that lets you do just what DS does, but it can only be found from equipping the perk. That way there is a chance it’ll never be found. And at the same time, only one character could use it. Also you can have a toolbox/meditation/key/etc, and also use decisive strike.

Laurie’s DS should let her escape the killer’s grasp sooner, but more like at 90/80/70% full escape bar instead of 45%. That would still be an amazing perk for a survivor.

Malakir

@Theluckyboi said:

@Malakir said:
donato said:

It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

How exactly is counterble unless you got lucky been close to a hook wasting time dribbling?

Very unlikely to activate on non obsession, also very arguable

R A N C O R
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Non-Obsession
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Zarathos

TheCatLady said:

Both DS and NOED are second chance perks that can be denied and I don't understand crying about one while defending the other. One grants a one-time free escape IF you can hit the skill check, while the other puts exposed on everyone IF dull totems aren't cleansed. Just accept them as features of the game and work around them, it's really not that hard.

Or crazy idea rework em both or disable em both until a solution is found. They mess with the rank systems and encourage bad habbits. Killers facecamp when they have noed as they know they can pick up exrta kills with noed. Before you say do the totems. Let me point out 5 totems across maps like the game, ormond is a big ask. Espicially when killers are camping a player so a clock is put on every survivours head. Push to rush gens and neet noed. 

As for ds well playing around it can at times involve choosing to chase the unhooked player over the obssesion so you can play around ds which isnt fun for either the killer or unhooked person. Its also used to often bm and is commonly used to punish killers who spread their hook out instead of tunneling an already expended ds survivor as you risk multiple ds. Its a perk that legitimises tunneling and thats the core problem. 

Just rework it to apply longer pallet stuns with a cooldown of 40 - 60 seconds cooldown depends on power of the stun. It would also be a solid counter to enduring spirit fury. Its a perk that gets nasty once paired with swf comms and since behavour has decided ti balance around swf well something has to be done with ds. 

Zarathos

TheLegendDyl4n1 said:

@Wolf74 said:

@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:

@donato said:
It's so easily counterable when it's on the obsession and it's very unlikely to activate when it's on a non-obsession player. How exactly is this perk too strong?

it doesnt as long as NOED exists as it is

yawn
The old troupe.
DS and Noed are NOT different sides of the same coin.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
DS is way better than Noed.
Have you every seen DS destroyed before you could use it?

with ds you can juggle the survivor, with noed you can destroy all of the totems. DS gives a free escape from the killers grasp, NOED gives a free exposed effect and we dont even get the luxury of knowing you have NOED its a suprise unlike DS. not apples and oranges because they both are OP

Its not a suprise? You know multiple dses can occur and before you say hook em close
A. most maps dont allow that luxury i.e. Ormond, The game etc
B. even then body blocks can ensure it goes off. 

Broosmeister

I'm fine with removing DS. But then ebony mori's should also get removed. Talk about unbalanced. 

Shad03

@Broosmeister said:
I'm fine with removing DS. But then ebony mori's should also get removed. Talk about unbalanced. 

No. The moris stay, even if it means DS should stay. NO ONE TOUCHES MY MORIS REEEE

alivebydeadight

@only1biggs said:
DS is absolute BS, but it can still be played around, even if there are non obsession DS users. Slugging, dribbling, making sure you zone them toward hooks before you down them, dropping them from heights, dropping in corners to body block, delayed dribble of non obsession (count to 6 before one dribble to a hook if you've zoned correctly) etc.

I posted this screen shot a while ago to mock someone else who was saying that 4DS users with flashlights are impossible to beat. It needs to be changed, but there are some counter plays. I know for a fact I've won more games against these types of players than I've lost, but I had to learn how...

DS too op pls nerf freddy

TheCatLady

@Wolf74 said:

@TheCatLady said:
Both DS and NOED are second chance perks that can be denied and I don't understand crying about one while defending the other. One grants a one-time free escape IF you can hit the skill check, while the other puts exposed on everyone IF dull totems aren't cleansed. Just accept them as features of the game and work around them, it's really not that hard.

DS and Noed are NOT "the same".
-Noed has a build in counter.
-The skillcheck is not a good argument for a better effect, because that is only a badly designe force multiplier; bad player who would need such 2nd chance perks, can't hit the check and those good player who are already powerful and hit the check every time are recieving to big of an advantage.
-DS changes the momentum of the game, early in the match, where the effect is much greater. If it denies early pressure on the team it is worth way more than something that only starts working at the endgame of the match.
-DS is not a "one time use" perk, because it is "one time" PER survivor taking it.

At what point did I say they were "the same"? I said they were both second chance perks that can be denied, which is true, whether the counter to the perk is built-in or not is irrelevant, that's not the point I was making with my post. DS and NOED aren't mirrors of one another, they both have their own nuances, and their own advantages/disadvantages.

"DS is not a one time use perk, because it is "one time" PER survivor taking it." Ergo, it's still one time use. Whether it's being used by one survivor or all of them is irrelevant. They can only use it one time and that's it. All you're doing is trudging up old arguments about this debate that I wasn't even trying to argue. I'm not arguing that NOED needs a nerf, or that DS needs a nerf, or that any of them are "TOO OP".

They are second chance perks that people need to work around instead of whining about. That's literally the entire point I was trying to make.

Wolf74

@TheCatLady said:

At what point did I say they were "the same"? I said they were both second chance perks that can be denied, which is true,

To make this simple. No.
Stop comparing these perks, because they are completely different.
Noed is balanced and DS is op crap.
Any survivor bringing up Noed in a DS debate is just trying to disguise the issues with DS.

Theluckyboi

@Wolf74 said:

@TheCatLady said:

At what point did I say they were "the same"? I said they were both second chance perks that can be denied, which is true,

To make this simple. No.
Stop comparing these perks, because they are completely different.
Noed is balanced and DS is op crap.
Any survivor bringing up Noed in a DS debate is just trying to disguise the issues with DS.

Why exactly is NOED balanced and DS is op? i have had a lot of matches were the killer makes a huge comeback all of a sudden thanks to NOED

i think both perks are somewhat fine, they are definetely counterable and people are just exxagerating their power

Malakir

Theluckyboi said:

@Wolf74 said:

@TheCatLady said:

At what point did I say they were "the same"? I said they were both second chance perks that can be denied, which is true,

To make this simple. No.
Stop comparing these perks, because they are completely different.
Noed is balanced and DS is op crap.
Any survivor bringing up Noed in a DS debate is just trying to disguise the issues with DS.

Why exactly is NOED balanced and DS is op? i have had a lot of matches were the killer makes a huge comeback all of a sudden thanks to NOED

i think both perks are somewhat fine, they are definetely counterable and people are just exxagerating their power

If you cannot see the difference.. welp I'm sorry for you

So a removable perk, that activates only if there are totems in the map and only in very late game when the exit gates are powered punishing the lazyness of not cleansing the totems compared to a whenever you ######### up perk that cannot be removed and waste even more time when you lose a chase

Zarathos

Theluckyboi said:

@Wolf74 said:

@TheCatLady said:

At what point did I say they were "the same"? I said they were both second chance perks that can be denied, which is true,

To make this simple. No.
Stop comparing these perks, because they are completely different.
Noed is balanced and DS is op crap.
Any survivor bringing up Noed in a DS debate is just trying to disguise the issues with DS.

Why exactly is NOED balanced and DS is op? i have had a lot of matches were the killer makes a huge comeback all of a sudden thanks to NOED

i think both perks are somewhat fine, they are definetely counterable and people are just exxagerating their power

Both noed and ds are broken. Ds is a momentum killer if you cant juggle which is likely due to
a. Hook changes
b. Maps like the game and ormond.

You cant pick up and if you cant pick up you have to slug meaning your down a hook. This perk guarrantes 3 other survivours at least 10 seconds to recover if you take it and reactivate the chase which is devastating when paired with good survivour players.

4x/3x/2x ds is a massive problem as well as you will not be informed if a non obssesion survivours has it and even if a hook is reasonably close a bodyblock can again cause it to proc. Killing momentum again iniating an additional chase. 

On swf its brutal and becomes even more unfair as survivours will be ready to deny the killer the hook with bodyblock or the survivour will position far from a hook to deny the killer the hook.

NOED is nasty as well not on the same level as ds but definatly overpowered. The ms increase plus instadown with no warning is nasty and often many maps make hunting 5 totems very hard mount ormond the game red forest etc. It worsens if the killer just starts facecamping the survivour. Forcing gen rush so survivours have to do gens fast. No time for totems unless you are hyper coordinated. With this playstyle a killer can nearly ensure a 2-3 k game which is unacceptable. 

Noed might not be on the same level as ds due to its inflexibility but its definatly allows a weak player to crush difficult opponet(s) by giving them a second chance. Which in many cases robs the players who have been playing well of any satisfaction. 

GraviteaUK

The problem with totem hunting is they are fixed locations a decent SWF team won't take long to get rid of those especially if it's SWF map choice.

They need to work on randomising the totem spawns better or add alot more points in, then they can possibly work at nerfing NoED.

Personally i don't have a problem with NoED as a survivor or killer it's easy enough to counter beforehand especially if 1 survivor dies and the other survivors get told the killer is running it.

Malakir

Zarathos said:

Theluckyboi said:

@Wolf74 said:

@TheCatLady said:

At what point did I say they were "the same"? I said they were both second chance perks that can be denied, which is true,

To make this simple. No.
Stop comparing these perks, because they are completely different.
Noed is balanced and DS is op crap.
Any survivor bringing up Noed in a DS debate is just trying to disguise the issues with DS.

Why exactly is NOED balanced and DS is op? i have had a lot of matches were the killer makes a huge comeback all of a sudden thanks to NOED

i think both perks are somewhat fine, they are definetely counterable and people are just exxagerating their power

Both noed and ds are broken. Ds is a momentum killer if you cant juggle which is likely due to
a. Hook changes
b. Maps like the game and ormond.

You cant pick up and if you cant pick up you have to slug meaning your down a hook. This perk guarrantes 3 other survivours at least 10 seconds to recover if you take it and reactivate the chase which is devastating when paired with good survivour players.

4x/3x/2x ds is a massive problem as well as you will not be informed if a non obssesion survivours has it and even if a hook is reasonably close a bodyblock can again cause it to proc. Killing momentum again iniating an additional chase. 

On swf its brutal and becomes even more unfair as survivours will be ready to deny the killer the hook with bodyblock or the survivour will position far from a hook to deny the killer the hook.

NOED is nasty as well not on the same level as ds but definatly overpowered. The ms increase plus instadown with no warning is nasty and often many maps make hunting 5 totems very hard mount ormond the game red forest etc. It worsens if the killer just starts facecamping the survivour. Forcing gen rush so survivours have to do gens fast. No time for totems unless you are hyper coordinated. With this playstyle a killer can nearly ensure a 2-3 k game which is unacceptable. 

Noed might not be on the same level as ds due to its inflexibility but its definatly allows a weak player to crush difficult opponet(s) by giving them a second chance. Which in many cases robs the players who have been playing well of any satisfaction. 

Meh no

I'll put noed close to adrenaline. Gives +1 health state and sb while noed gives +1 dmg. I stopped using noed ages ago for how weak it is since get cleansed in seconds. Just now ended another game, legion was using noed, got a hook and the hex got cleansed in 20s. Body blocked, saved the guy without borrowed time and that's it

With DS you just get punished for outplaying the survivor and giving the opportunity to waste even more time that wasn't deserved at all while noed punishes lazyness

If the opponent is good enough, noed or not he/she will escape regardless. Many people think DS isn't a big deal because most of people who uses this perk is bad asf but decent survivors would destroy a killer with it

Cymer

@AlwaysInAGoodShape brought it on the point in his post https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/34870/solution-to-the-death-efficiency-problem-solving-the-games-biggest-issue#latest

As the game is right now, the first kill/down is crucial for the victory of the killer.
DS simply denies and undo all his/her effort with a single button press with no counterplay and can lose you the entire game.
NOED is nothing nearly that powerful as DS is, regarding on the impact on the game.
If you are really invested and interested in DBD go read his elaborate post, think again about how DS works and impacts the game and come back and post your opinion.

JoakimGrDay

@Poweas said:
Forcing a killer to chase u down again is NOT balanced. Unless its nurse . As Nurse juggling survivors takes way more time then actually eating the DS believe it or not. Or if it's my Hag since they always walk into my traps it's funny. But for the other killers it's a [BAD WORD] nightmare.

@TheCatLady said:
Both DS and NOED are second chance perks that can be denied and I don't understand crying about one while defending the other. One grants a one-time free escape IF you can hit the skill check, while the other puts exposed on everyone IF dull totems aren't cleansed. Just accept them as features of the game and work around them, it's really not that hard.

True I mean "No One Escapes Death", "Rancor", "Haunted Grounds" & BBQ is quite strong perks. Nice 2-pers perspective