Increase in survivors that are taking the game hostage
Comments
-
Sounds like they were doing gens until the first survivor died. One thing that may help you going forward is to not tunnel the one survivor to create an unwinnable 3v1. Instead of killing off 1 quick and possibly making the others hide more, spread the kills. The fewer the survivors, the more caution the remaining will show.
2 -
But i did not tunnel at all, i secured a good 4 gen and stuck with it.
0 -
This isn't taking the game hostage. This is equivalent to me, to a killer camping a 3 gen and never committing to chases and just drawing the game out indefinitely.
1 -
"a killer camping a 3 gen" the killers job is to defend the gens, and kill the survivors.
And you are absolutey wrong (according to bhvr) -> https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3128851#Comment_3128851
0 -
Can you imagine if devs actually had the forethought to add a fourth-level idle survivor notification, where if there is absolutely no gen progress for 3 minutes the Entity just reveals all survivors auras until someone goes down, and this whole silly discussion was avoided in the first place....that's the world I want to live in.
2 -
I can't see, how'd this be bannable.
Nobody's holding the game hostage in your case scenario, as you or them do have ways to progress the match furthermore; Thing is, one has to take the first step, and the one taking the first step is probably gonna lose something without getting anything in return. It sucks, but if you do care about having fun, I'd blame you for not going around and trying to find the survivors.
I mean, you do know that generators do take around ~60 seconds if multiple survivors do repair them, right? So, get outta there and make sure to be back within ~80 seconds to ensure that no generator could be completed in the meantime.
You and they have had ways to get outta this situation. Just because all of you were stubborn enough or too dedicated to ensure the victory doesn't mean, others are to blame.
Honestly, this can be seen as holding the game hostage, however;
Since both sides are responsible here, every single player in the match would have to get banned at the same time, and I'm quite sure, you wouldn't have liked it, right? So, going by that, nobody shall get banned in this presented case scenario, even if you were to record the entire match.
1 -
When the killer 'takes a strategy to extremes', such as slugging everyone or tunneling one survivor to death at 5 gens, survivors are often told to 'just bring the perks that counter this'. 'You should have brought DS, UB, OTR if you didn't want this to happen.' And it's made out to be their fault if they didn't dedicate a build to counter it. Been hearing it on the forums, reddit, and in end game chat for years. Fine. But that works both ways.
I'm personally of the opinion that survivors cannot hold the killer hostage. Ever. Survivors can body block another survivor and hold a survivor hostage, but the killer can always just hit survivors and get around afk body blocking.
Not being able to find survivors is the extreme end of a stealth strategy. It's the killer's primary job to find survivors. You can't kill them if you can't find them. If extreme hide and seek is becoming meta, then take your own advice: adapt. Bring perks like iron maiden, whispers, and darkness revealed instead of four slowdowns. You're saying gens aren't being done anyway, sounds like you have useless perks to get rid of.
3 -
My point more was that both are terrible game design yet are optimal play for the 4K and escaping. Also technically the killer should eventually find them. They can open every single locker. That’s a game mechanic. The bottom line is the devs could do a lot more to prevent hostage situations and game scenarios where players spend large amounts of time doing nothing/boring tasks. Think about all the talk of tunnelling and camping too, I’ve seen loads of good and passable solutions they could use the PTB to try out. However the devs seem to prefer some silly artistic vision with arbitrary rules that get flimsily enforced.
1 -
I had something like this to happen but it was last 2 survivors hiding in swamp map and they let their teammate die on hook but they gave up eventually and tried to make me team. But if they would want to team should tried that before as I wasted over 10 mins finding them so I was not pleased. I always check the basement early if survivors hide but usually they hide in some bushes debends on map. Luckily I don't see these kind of survivors usually. I think their goal was to make you AFK or dc. I once got killer AFK when I hide with ramdom over 20 mins so we completed last gen and escapen even he had no way out. But the killer was not good as our hide was actually very easy to locate and good killer would find us.
0 -
nailed it.
couldn't agree more.
0 -
When survivors do this it's absolutely insufferable. Drawing a match out to ridiculous lengths by waiting for for one or more of your team to die so you can get hatch is a scummy way to play.
I mean some common sense should be applied here; maybe give it a couple minutes and if nothing happens, try pushing out the last gens.
And even if the other surv is found and killed after 30 minutes, you're still not guaranteed anything. If you die anyway, was it worth it? You could have played another couple games in that time. Also, as a killer if you do this, there is zero chance I am showing any mercy if I find you.
As a surv, I'd much rather go out pushing objectives in futility than immerse for god knows how long to maybe get a scummy hatch escape.
Maybe institute a mechanic where if no gens are touched for a long time, all remaining survs get unremovable crows.
0 -
Survivors are required by game rules to try and progress the game. If there’s nothing else to do (Hexes/unhooks/heals), you are by the game rules, required to attempt to do generators. If you get chased off, that’s fine. If you hide occasionally while the killer is nearby looking for you, that’s fine. What is against rules and potentially bannable depending on factors is hiding and refusing to attempt generators. It doesn’t matter whether it’s 2, 3, or 4 survivors doing it. Hiding and waiting for the other to die for hatch is against the rules if you don’t attempt to do gens.
0 -
But the killer was not good as our hide was actually very easy to locate and good killer would find us.
It doesn't mean the killer's bad. They could just be lazy or not want to deal with it. Personally, if I notice survivors aren't working on gens, I put the controller down and do something else because 1. I know they're breaking the rules and I can report them, and 2. I'm curious to see how long it will take the survivors to stop being selfish cowards and do their objective. Like a psychology experiment. Plus, it's just not fun playing a walking sim searching the whole map. Unless I'm doing a challenge of some sort, I don't care about killing at all, I just want the Bloodpoints. I'd do the gens myself if I could, but I can't, so I force the survivors to end the match themselves.
I'm personally of the opinion that survivors cannot hold the killer hostage. Ever. Survivors can body block another survivor and hold a survivor hostage, but the killer can always just hit survivors and get around afk body blocking.
I mean, you can have that opinion, but it is wrong: according to the devs themselves it is a bannable offense. No matter a player's opinion on it, a group of 2+ survivors who hides and doesn't touch generators at all risks getting banned.
It's the killer's primary job to find survivors. You can't kill them if you can't find them.
But it's not the survivor's objective to just "not die." Their objective is to do gens and escape. If they're not doing gens, they're not doing their objective and participating in normal gameplay. The devs did not design the game for the killer to have to search the entire map, they designed it for killers to patrol gens. The killer is not expected to go search every corner and every locker; instead, the correct action is to report the survivors.
sounds like you have useless perks to get rid of.
Personally, when this happens to me, I'm often going for an adept (so my perks are not by choice of what I want but what the game requires), but even still no one should need to bring perks to counter players who are breaking the rules, and I'm not changing my regular build of Lightborn, Distressing, and Beast of Prey. If survivors want to stop doing gens and hang out on the map for an hour, they're only wasting their own time. I already put the controller down 45 minutes ago and am watching a movie or something, meanwhile they're spending the entire time having to actively stealth, not earning points or doing anything that could be considered fun interactive gameplay. It's not my job to look for people who are breaking the rules; I just hit the "save video" button so I can report them after the match ends.
1 -
Oh, really?
I'd like to see the proof, because that'd put all newbies into griefing category. Following furthermore, they should even get banned.
And no, you can't use argument that they're new to the game; I could create an alternative account and pretend to be new to the game by promoting such a playstyle aswell, and.. Would I be new to the game? Not anymore, yet it'd look like it, right?
Go ahead, I'm quite excited to your next response.
0 -
Well I understand your point but it's not reportable actually they're doing their objective which is to survive it'd just not fun gor killer. Kind of equal of tunneling and camping which are unfun for survivors. Other just increase the time of match and other lessens it. But anyway I have no problem findhing hiders don't give up and keep looking usually I find them in few minutes and few times it has taken more than 10 minutes. The match were I hid one guy dc:t pretty early other suicided on hook and we still got 4 gens done. But then we hid in that small building in springwood which has small basement so I think that's very easy for killer to find us he just continued patrolling gens I quess.
0 -
If you don't work on gens for an extended amount of time, then yes, it is reportable. The devs have stated so. I quoted their statements in a previous post, which can be seen here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3128851/#Comment_3128851
The objective, to survive, specifically means doing gens and escaping. Hiding to avoid being found while doing gens is okay, but hiding without attempting gens at all means the survivors are avoiding the objective, which can be reported and may result in the survivors being banned.
2 -
Based on the provided responses, whoever was still alive at that time (including the killer) was holding the game hostage.
Yeah, that sounds logical and I'd agree with that.
0 -
Then probably most survivors in this game should be banned it's very commonly used. It's certainly unfun. But killer could bring one aura reading perk too to help find them and not 4 slow downs. But more importantly hackers should get banned and that should be devs focus I have seen quite many recently.
0 -
ALWAYS check basement when this happens.
Survivors do this when they dont like how you play or what you play. Especially if it was their friend.
1 -
There are a lot of things the devs need to work on. They need to fix the game so that survivors aren't encouraged to go into hiding when things get difficult, because a lot of survivors don't understand that their objective isn't just avoiding death but doing gens. There should be built-in mechanics that stop this from happening in the first place, because it does happen a lot and reporting people for it is not a good solution at all. Plus, it sucks to be the survivor doing gens while the other one hides and waits for the hatch. If I went into hiding waiting for the hatch, too, then it'd be reportable, but because I'm attempting gens the other survivor can do nothing and the game allows it, meanwhile I'm basically guaranteed to die. I'm sick of it.
I know the devs are working on the cheater problem, it's just not easy. The cheaters can get around bans. I've reported and seen cheaters get banned, and it doesn't even slow them down. Cheating is also a business, the people who created the cheat engines charge money, so each time BHVR fixes any exploits the cheaters are financially motivated to find new ones as fast as possible. It's a constant battle.
0 -
How was it my (the killers) fault? i was looking for the survivors, but could not find them.
0 -
It's almost like that's literally why they ask for video evidence and why it's a case-by-case basis. Potentially bannable =/= will definitely be a ban every time. Congratulations, you almost seem to understand what nuance is.
0 -
There are proof of that in this thread already, if you just would bother to read up on it, quotes straight from bhvr
0 -
That is awesome.
0 -
I never said that extreme hiding isn't "against the rules," "bannable," "poor sportsmanship," or "refusing to take part in normal gameplay." It can still be all of those things. I said it wasn't holding the killer hostage. The killer always has a method of ending the game by finding the hiding survivors. That may be difficult, especially with the perks involved, but once found, the killer can chase and down the survivor to end the game. The pathway to closure is always there. The gameplay mechanics allow the game to still come to an end. But it relies on the killer's ability to play Hide and Seek and probably some luck to pull off. And there are certainly perk options available that would improve the killer's chances, or even guarantee, finding sneaky survivors.
Contrast that with a killer body blocking the last survivor in a corner, an actual "hostage" situation. The survivor has literally no gameplay avenue to escape. They can't cause themselves to lose collision, die, or bring any other closure to the game. There's no perk, due diligence, "skill," mindgame, or luck - absolutely nothing in their control except disconnecting that will cause that game to end.
Should the game do a better job of detecting these situations and ending the game? Absolutely, but it doesn't, and it clearly isn't a priority to fix anytime soon. And, if the end answer is "I found them in the basement", as edited by the OP in this case, this feels much more like complaining that survivors don't just volunteer themselves on a platter to be killed.
0 -
I said it wasn't holding the killer hostage.
That's fine if that is your opinion, but if we're going by the devs' definition then it's wrong. The devs do consider extreme hiding to be holding the killer hostage.
Just to provide evidence if necessary, I quoted the devs in this post earlier in this thread: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3128851/#Comment_3128851
The quote that specifically supports what I'm saying is from Peanits: "nobody is allowed to take the game hostage. Whether that's survivors crouching around in corners refusing to touch generators to drag on the game for half an hour or a killer blocking someone in the corner and refusing to kill them, it's reportable either way."
if the end answer is "I found them in the basement", as edited by the OP in this case, this feels much more like complaining that survivors don't just volunteer themselves on a platter to be killed.
That doesn't make sense to me. The survivors weren't progressing the game. Hanging out in the basement isn't earning points, it isn't trying to escape. If there are two survivors left and both of them are together, then they know the game can't end, which is worse than if the two survivors were separated and ignorant of the other's actions. They know the exit gates can't get powered, they know the killer can't start the EGC, and if they're not getting AFK birds then they are trying to prevent the killer from finding them, meaning there is no way for the killer to end the match. The only reason for all of the remaining survivors to hang out together far away from incomplete gens is in the hopes that the killer will DC. At least if they're separate they might be playing for the hatch, but that's impossible if they're together. That's nowhere near "complaining that they didn't volunteer themselves on a platter to be killed."
0 -
Mmm, and I have already quoted that response. Following its logic, you and the survivors who were still alive during or in that match were all holding the game hostage at the same time, regardless of who has started it.
Although the killer's job is to protect the generators and survivors' is to repair them, so is the killer's job to find them and hook them, just like survivors' is to escape, too, ain't that right?
Even if you weren't the one to start it, you've had the option to go and find them outside of the area (where they've already repaired the generators). I do get that it's like a way to lose by giving up the pressure, but based on the answers we've received from the staff, you're just as guilty as the survivors you've faced.
Yeah, yeah.. Whatever.
The reason as to why I've wanted to furthermore discuss this matter with you is because you haven't mentioned anything about the killer at all in your previous response. However, based on the responses received from the staff, killer was guilty aswell.. That's all I've wanted to point out, but I guess that I could've used different words to make it clear.
0 -
I dunno man, it's pretty funny. I'd say it's worth it. It's a battle of will.
0 -
Im not sure what part of "i was trying to find them" you dont understand?
You are assuming i was staying with the gens, i was not.
So what you are saying is that the devs of the game, should not decide the rules ??
Because what you are saying right now is that you dont care what they said, because "your set of rules" are the right ones and not the one they made.
Imagine a tennis match where one side refuses to serve the ball, but just stands there in hope that the other part will get tired of waiting and give up, thats called for unsportsmanlike, and the stalling part will get disqualified.
0 -
this happen to me multiple times, I usually never had all 4 of the survivors hiding all game because they usually rush gens and hide whenever I patrol and try to find them.
but usually the last two will never touch gens and hide in dark areas of the map until I give up. That’s why I don’t go for 4ks any more, you have to slug one of the last 2 survivors and look for the other one who is hiding. And if they’re in a swf they can just dc so their friend can find hatch faster or open gates lol.
But yeah whispers is the only option killers have for this, and maybe a stealth killer if they don’t have spine chill. Most Maps are too big for killers to find two hidden survivors who can run away at a sound of a heartbeat or terror radius lol.
0 -
Yup, or watch you check lockers, and then enter one the saw you check
1 -
What are you talking about?
Of course, they do set the rules.. But according to them, both sides are responsible for holding the game hostage, whether that was their intention or not.
However, you haven't stated anything about your own gameplay; If you were searching for them and kinda abandoned the generators, then you're absolutely not responsible here and wouldn't deserve any sort of a punishment. Thing is, if such a situation were to occur once again, and the killer wouldn't be looking for them, but guarding the remaining generators, then I'd blame both sides for holding the game hostage; Survivors for not touching the generators and the killer for not attempting to find the survivors.
0 -
I was seaching the whole map
0
