Why is tunneling considered bad form?
I've been thinking about this. If the same survivor keeps getting caught it's tunneling right? Is tunneling only if killers abandon or ignore chase on one survivor for their chosen tunnel? Like it has to be intentional right? Or is it just that survivors fault for getting caught.
I think the really terrible thing about tunneling that killers don't get is that a survivor tunneled out is likely only going to get 5k BP and that's if they were lucky. If they brought an item with add-ons they lose them and they can easily be worth over 9k BP. A net loss.
I've played killer against bully squads. Is it a bit degrading getting repeatedly stunned, blinded and so on? Sure, but I'm in the entire match. I'm going to get 15k or more BP regardless of how much I get beat up.
I think tunneling really is something people have a right to complain about.
Comments
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That's how I've always defined it: chasing a single survivor to the active exclusion of others, especially if it's right after they've been unhooked.
For me it's less about bloodpoint gain or loss and more than tunneling is the single most frustrating thing that I absolutely hate running into when I play Survivor.
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Survivors don't like being eliminated out of the game early. That's really it.
There's nothing bad about the killing tunneling out the survivor. It can be really good for the killer if they find the weak link and knock them out early as a 3v1 is much easier to handle than a 4v1.
The only thing right now is it might be a bit too easy for killers to tunnel out a survivor and that might warrant a nerf.
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Make tunneling out generators less rewarding. If survivors don't tunnel gens then killers might not tunnel survivors.
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True.
A bad game as killer is still more profitable than even some okay games as survivor. That's why when I play killer, I'll often try to make sure not only the game is at least a bit fun for both parties, but also that they get some points. If I happen upon a survivor I've already hooked just before, I'll scare them off their gen but give them another chance at actually playing.
I won't bother calculating who is who if they all have the same skin though. I don't play with a pen and paper next to my keyboard haha.
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Shhh!! Those posts always make me laugh. 😂
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Sure you can. I can have the unreal expectation that I expect you to complete 10% progress on every generator then you get 20% on all generators and repeat this until some go to 100% completion.
You have the same expectation that I should "anti tunnel" and hook each survivor twice before I ever hook someone once.
Both are completely ridiculous
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It's on the survivor to avoid the killer long enough to accomplish a good score. The only negative aspect is the survivor doesn't get to reset and refresh before their next engagement with the killer; which is a clear detriment to the killer's time.
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The posts on this forum get stupider and stupider by the day.
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wrong but try again.
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It's not bad form though. It's a risk that can be punished by smart survivors when done recklessly. It's just a strategy like any other. Like splitting up on different gens, or working on gens instead of healing.
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Imagine if the killer could kick completed gens and they "rolled back" to uncompleted. Now they have a non discreet objective. You could win as killer if five gens were at 95% but none were fully "on".
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Literally zero survivors have ever made the conscious choice to leave gens at 33% until all gens were at 33% before getting any one generator to 66% and then repeating that process before getting any generator to 100% completion.
Survivors tunnel generators so killers tunnel survivors.
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Working on a gen uninterrupted progresses the game at a normal pace, which is still fair to each survivor and killer. A killer focusing on one survivor so that they are dead within two minutes of a match has prevented that survivor from playing for the entire rest of that match (they now have to move onto another lobby and queue), which if there are bonus BP elements in play such as BPS or Anniversary Offerings, they get no advantage of. That's why tunneling survivors is considered bad early on. It actively hurts a player by not allowing them to really play the game like the other survivors.
Also, tunneling survivors at 5 gens is just tacky.
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Yeah the same skin can be bad thing is killer tries not to tunnel. In one game I hooked meg and he tried chanses to get off hook and I went to chase another survivor downed and hooked. Then I was sure I found another meg and downed her and hooked but it turned out it was same meg and she died getting less than 5K bp made me bit sad.
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Unlike camping (most times), tunneling tends to be an optimal strategy in many situations to achieve the ultimate killer goal of killing all of the survivors. Like every other gameplay aspect of the trial, tunneling has an inherent risk and can be done "right" and "wrong". The former will expeditiously remove a survivor from the trial and let enough time to get the rest. The latter will spend too much time and get the killer a 3 or 4 escape.
A lot of players really don't care about the BPs at all. It's often just about winning or at least feeling like you had a "good game"
Sadly hard tunneling is not fun for the tunneled person, just as it's not fun for the killer when a Gen pops in the first 50 seconds of the trial when you barely had time to start chase, or when 3 pop at the 2 minute mark, when you are just getting your first hook.
In the end this is indented into the game concept and can't be changed. Ultimately it's the players who decide how a game develops on both sides.
As killer main I always try to let the survivors have fun as well, Depending on the situation, but that is my choice.
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This most stupidies thing I read and worst excuse I've seen to tunnel survivor out.
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Sometimes it feels like the Dead by Daylight community was raised on a steady diet of toxic waste and cranial blunt force trauma.
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Killers are most efficient when they eliminate survivors one by one. Survivors are most efficient when they eliminate gens in the same fashion.
Change the game so neither side "tunnels"
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It's a multifaceted issue.
Matchmaking is often horrendous on the survivor side. The weakest survivor often shouldn't even be in that lobby, and they get tunneled out at 4 gens. There's not much the other survivors can do about that in solo queue. The other way this happens is a strong player is tunneled and one or two survivors do absolutely nothing with that time because, again, they're bad and shouldn't be in that lobby. Or they're just there for one of the many wonderful and fun "throw the game for 20k bp" Rift challenges.
It's taking a competitive playstyle into what is probably a casual/quickplay lobby. My biggest criticism of DbD is how they throw all players into the same queue. If everyone is approaching the game with a competitive mindset, by all means tunnel away. But it's incredibly frustrating when I bring in a good build, play optimally, and someone with a loot build or random garbage gets tunneled out immediately because they couldn't defend themselves. It's taking advantage of mismatching playstyles. And SBMM isn't even remotely tuned to match playstyles together
I definitely get it. I play killer at a high level too, so I understand that you don't know what you're playing against (again, quickplay and comp queue devs). But tunneling is often really unnecessary in the early game because of how godawful matchmaking is, and it's also wildly effective when it shouldn't be.
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Is that a problem with the system then? A killer can have a rotten game and be rewarded. I mean I've had games where I get wrecked by the survivor team and get decent points. Why is it that a killer can play horrible and get rewarded while the survivor gets hosed?
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Oh? You've never gotten on a gen before and refused to touch another gen until you had that one done?
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No offense but the tunneling gen mumbo jumbo is totally comparing apples to oranges. Tunneling a survivor knocks them out of the game with under 5k points. A killer would have to stand in the corner doing absolutely nothing to earn such subpar rewards.
I've let everyone go and still gotten over 25k. I mean, it's just completely different.
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Patrol gens, instead of tunnel survivors, and your survivors wont tunnel gens.
If your complaint is that too many survivors "tunnel gens," then you're complaining about a problem that you have created yourself.
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I think there is both intentional and unintentional tunnelling. Intentionally tunnelling is poor form and very sweaty. I had a game today where a plague with every slowdown perk known to man ignored every other survivor, gen pallet and DS to tunnel me put of the game.
Unintentional tunnelling I think is ok, like where a teammate leads the killer back to the hook or the survivor makes a mistake.
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Tunneling, to my mind, refers to basically going for one person the second they are unhooked, and focusing them out.
It's not finding that person by accident, having them run into you, hooking them after you hook someone else.
Here's the issue.
You log onto Trickster. They bring an Eyrie offering, fat toolboxes with 4x BNP, PTS and you get unlucky on spawns. They split up, with 2 to a gen.
By the time you reach them, even if you start moving towards the correct gen immediately, it's easy to lose both gens.
Those are the games where, yeah - I'm not going to play nice. Because you know what you did.
The issue is that some people will tunnel on a stacked Nurse, on Midwich, on the first down.
Survivor BP does need a buff...sort of. I've suggested that time spent on a hook works the same as a chase, where you get credit for stuff that is done while you are occupied.
That said - survivors can quite reliably get completely free addons via chests and chest addons. I know I'll sometimes run PI for this exact reason, I'll almost always find at least 1 useful item in every match, and if I escape 1 in 2 matches, I can build a decent little collection as I go.
Killers don't have that luxury. Which is something to also consider.
Unless the killer is literally tunneling you off the hook (see: camping), your team should be coordinating to bodyblock, interfere and save.
The only time I'll get sub 5k is when I get hard camped. And yes, camping needs a bit of a fix (hopefully Reassurance will help to discourage it).
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Honestly it’s just gameplay.
Blood points are infinite if you play you’ll get them.
The cost/loss element is largely imagined simply because of the infinite nature of the currency.
This is an elimination game which means you may be eliminated early.
If tunneling is a major source of complaint then well, there are plenty of games where there is no threat of elimination and you endlessly respawn maybe those game are more your kind of thing.
I also play a lot of MWO where if you get killed that’s it, you’re out, but it’s kind of an accepted norm in that community and makes people do their upmost to not get spotted and killed.
I’d hate for DBD to lose all its thematic threat and just become a farm fest for those who can’t handle loss.
If the opportunity to eliminate you comes along your opponent is probably going to take it, making DBD visceral and gritty and great. I hope that never changes.
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The scenario you described is a design flaw, and I'd advise killers with a bone to pick against such strats spend their time and effort fighting for change with BHVR, rather then settling their score against random survivors in future games.
...because i'm tired of getting roflstomped as a solo surv because killers are camping and tunneling first hook at 5 gens.
4 games today this happened, and in all 4 the surv on first hook had kindred. The info provided wasn't enough to help anyone escape in those 4 games.
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Shrug.
It's a design flaw that's been in DbD since...whenever MacMillan was released (the start?).
It's not going to change.
I play to win. If I can play 'nice', I will - I generally go hard from the start and ease up if I start stomping. But if I'm getting hammered, especially when it's a stacked team, I'm taking the gloves off.
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I don't really see a problem, that's just the distribution of an asymmetrical.
Killer is always having an interaction in some form to gain objective points, while survivors are competing with one another for the minimum points required to escape. The only way survivors can ensure solid team gains is distributing objectives equally or engaging unnecessarily with the killer to create additional opportunities.
Basically the design is that everything happens to the single killer but survivor experiences divided by four (although not always equally).
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It's not different. "Points" has nothing to do with it.
Doing a generator until it is done is a Survivor game objective.
Targeting a Survivor until it is dead is a Killer game objective.
Killers are expected to stop and spread it around to other Survivors but Survivors are never expected to stop and spread it around to other generators. This is a double standard, and a very blatant and obvious one at that.
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To me it depends when you tunnel.
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-"No offense but the tunneling gen mumbo jumbo is totally comparing apples to oranges"
Is it? Survivors rush their objective; killers rush their objective too. It's a PVP game where you have opposing goals that interfere with the other side's win condition.
Let me tell you what kind of player I am. I did the bot tutorial mission and tunneled them at five gens.
Tunneling at five gens is a choice. There are very simple and creative ways I have imagined to completely fix the tunneling problem.
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I've seen survivors get downright unlucky. I'll unhook them, they go the stupid way, 20 seconds later they are on hook. I don't blame the killer if the survivor is a dummy.
I was tunneled today, my definition by sharing the story. I get unhooked, 3 survivors around me, killer goes for me even though others a trying to taunt him. It might be because I have the boons, so he wanted me out of the game. Might be because I destroyed all his hexes. But he was focused on me. I stopped and pointed like, man go over there, then got my third hook.
What makes it difficult is it's in an area that I can't recover. No loopable spots, pallets, or vaults. So it's like... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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As a main killer, i saw enough occurences to know that tunneling can be a very good strategy, but not neccessary on most games imo, let me explain;
- First, a game is more manageable with a 3v1, killer time is always counted, not the reverse (exceptions don't count), so when there is an obvious weak one in a swf with 3 strong, tunneling the weak is the most efficient way ton injure the others and put a huge pressure, because the 3 others will come to help and take hits, so they don't do gens. You don't even have to necessary follow the weak all game, but if you saw him, go for it, it's free hits and possibly free downs.
Knowing it happen that a surv is so much hard to catch (and toxic) that when you catch him, you face camp and tunnel him. It's like he asked himself to be killed. And be assured i have no mercy, if there is 1 thing i learned from this game, it's to have no mercy, survs don't have any, they t bag, open exit but don't exit and taunt you, clic clic, just, die.
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Yeah that doesnt quite equate. The way to get survivors off gens is to spread the love and chase all 4, dont just tunnel the one and be surprised when three gens pop.
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100% this and I never really thought of it that way. It makes sense though because when watching comp I have zero issue with tunneling because the team wins and loses together no matter who dies first, but in a causal experience an individual getting tunneled is basically being told 'you don't get to play'.
It's also so incredibly easy to tunnel even if you aren't trying to because the killer is notified of the survivor getting off hook and the survivor is wounded. Why go after someone else when you've got easy prey that is highlighted for you? I know on killer I have to consciously try to NOT tunnel and go after the rescuer rather then the wounded survivor making all the noise.
The fact it matches me up so fast when I play survivor atm means there's no way in hell they matched me up well with the skill level. It feels like it just grabs people and throws them into a game. On both sides I find the skill level varies massively. Game needs to make up it's mind whether its competitive or casual but like many things it tries to do both and fails at both.
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did i ask if it was considered unfair? please show me where i posted about it being unfair? I'm waiting.
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How do you chase 4 survivors with 1 killer?
Do you play Nemesis and you have 2 zombies perfectly harassing survivors while you chase 1 person and 1 person gets a free generator with no harassment?
Do you play Pinhead and have your chain up the entire game?
Oh right - neither of these is a realistic scenario. Nor is chasing 4 people a realistic scenario. Map sizes in DBD are too big. If we take a look at a map like coal tower we will see a balanced size map. If you chase one person for longer than about 30 seconds you will almost always run into a second person trying to work on a generator. This is the mechanic you talk about that only happens with small maps.
Unfortunately most of the maps in DBD are not 9000m². Most of them are huge.
So let's think about a realistic game. If I down Meg and I put her in the middle of three gens then I cannot lose the game if I guard those generators and make her capture difficult. If I tunnel her while guarding those three gens then that is a winning strategy.
The game developers need to shrink all the maps so that camping/tunneling with a 3 gen is not the only viable strategy.
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Tunneling is good form if you want to win... Or annoy the survivors. Either way, it is a win-win from that perspective. What do you stand to lose?
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Kinda like how killers were going to stop stacking slowdown perks if gens ever got nerfed? Oh wait.
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Yes you can.
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Absolutely, fully, completely, entirely, wholly, utterly, quite, 100%, downright, unqualifiedly, in all respects, unconditionally, perfectly, unrestrictedly, radically, stark, to the hilt, yes.
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you don't tunnel gens man you gen rush that's what we call it come on why are people trying to turn everything into a type if tunneling.
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Look at what happened with the perk changes.
Instant regression got nerfed to oblivion. Now there is only regression over time perks. The new time based regression perks only work vs solo queue not SWF.
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I tunnel deez boons
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So you want survivors to be able to be able to regress hook stages is what I'm hearing, because that 33% of a generator isn't permanent just because it hit a threshhold, it's only secure when the gen is 100% finished. Just touch a hook that someone was hooked on, and the killer loses a hash mark if they don't hook on it again fast enough. Cause that's the equivalent to generator progress. Until that survivor is dead (100% objective completion), you're arguing that it should be possible to completely regress all sacrifice progress back down to zero. What? No? You don't want that? weird.
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There are no current tools to prevent tunneling. The main thing DS had was that it stacked on everything else. If you took a bt hit, DS would still give you another hit. But now DS is completely worthless so you basically just have 1 hit right off hook. Then the killer can focus you down again and get the free win.
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I loved that post.
@DBDVulture Whats your take? This is what you want?
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Dont be facetious, you cant chase 4 survivors at once. my point was to share the chase interaction around and pressure survivors off gens and to do something stupid.
Also what you are describing (hooking a survivor between 3 gens) is proxy camping. Reducing map size makes that easier, which makes for sweatier gameplay. After the last survivor nerf and massive killer buff I think that the DBD does not need a map rework. They need to sort out the existing balance issues post 'meta rework' first.
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The difference in your example is pretty straightforward though, the killer was never removed from the game regardless of the approach the survivors take. Tunnelling someone right off the hook, does remove that survivor from the game without any real conterplay for that survivor. They are at the killers mercy, and it is insanely unfun to be dangling from a hook or just outright removed.
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