Survivor perks come with downsides/restrictions while Killer perks do multiple positive things
There's a clear trend regarding recent survivor and killer perks, particularly recent ones. Reassurance and the reworked Off the Record are supposedly META, but they both have meaningful restrictions/downsides that make it questionable if they're even good perks to begin with, especially in solo queue.
Reassurance- To apply its effect, the survivor can't further the objective and actually has to chase the killer. It stops hook progress, gen progress, and the need for game sense on the killer side. This is not a META perk, it's arguably a killer perk. Its positive side should be something that's implemented as simply basekit.
Off the Record- If allows the survivor to tank a hit for 80 seconds after being hooked as long as said survivor doesn't further the objective, again, or engages in team-oriented activities. It deactivates after gens are completed, requires the need to mend if hit while active, and can add an easy stack of STBFL (a real META perk) for the killer, provided he/she is running it. I would perhaps think about running it in solo queue if coordination was in some way basekit and not required by perks.
Dead Hard- Deep wounds again. The survivor makes a good play and it results in rewarding both survivor and killer; extended chase for the former and slowdown for the latter.
There's other ones. None of these perks are that strong. With the patch, longer games aid killers. How's the math work out for solo queue? Three of you go for the unhook, three of you go for the box. Get off the gen to proc Reassurance. Don't the touch the gen to profit from OTR. There's not enough math on the solo queue side. It's all to extend the match which is to the killer's benefit. Compare these perks to recent killer perks, though
No Way Out- A minute of slowdown plus it Tinkers when the exit gate is touched. Meaningful slowdown and the killer's told where to go. As an aside, why do killers still see the aura of the exit gates for the entire length of endgame at this point? Survivor perks deactivate at endgame, where's the "compensation"?
Deadlock- Tinkerer plus slowdown. Generator with most progress is blocked after a gen is completed and the killer is told, "They're working on that one".
Eruption- Slowdown, incapacitation of the survivor working on the gen, and two Tinkerer notifications, both the survivor scream and the yellow aura that tells the killer "You're patrolling this area of the map".
Pain Resonance- Slowdown (buffed since the patch) and a Tinkerer scream. Can also be combined with DMS to eliminate the need for gamesense.
Call of Brine- Tinkerer and slowdown. When a survivor completes a skill check on a gen affected by CoB, it Tinkers and tells the killer "They're on the gen again".
You get the point. "Strong" survivor perks come with meaningful downsides and strong killer perks do two or three things at once. The patch already brought some perks/add-ons as basekit. Couple stacks of Thana guaranteed, tier 1 Brutal, two stacks of STBFL., Compound 33 when injuring a survivor. Add this to the META perks that are two or three perks in one, and killers are playing with 11 perks and five add-ons. This is a balance issue. Thank you for reading.
Comments
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The simple and obvious answer to this is that there's 16 survivor perks and only 4 killer perks in a game. Killer perks need to be qualitatively better, while survivor perks make do with quantity instead of quality.
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Prolly cuz there's four of those dudes versus one killer but I'm hardly professor DBD
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Survivor perk is better.
Reassurance is OP.
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Reassurance - you serious? This will be the best anti-camping perk in the game.
Off the Record - New better DS. Nothing to complain about here.
Dead Hard - It's much stronger in right hands but also useless in some situations.
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The typical Huntress has seven hatchets, Artist has infinite crows, Deathslinger never runs out of ammo. Killers have powers that more than make up for the 16 perks on the survivor side. It's still clear that survivor perks come with downsides and recent killer perks due multiple positive things. All the strong ones come with some sort of "go here" notification.
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You have to consider that there's 4 survivors and each survivor can bring the same perk multiple times. If perk is strong enough that one survivor using it is already pretty good, then all 4 survivors running it can be downright oppressive. Basically the issue with Dead Hard.
But this is also ignoring the perks survivors have that don't come with downsides.
Bond, 0 downside and is always active.
Counterforce, 0 downside, always active, and gets better as you cleanse totems.
Detective's Hunch, 0 downsides, actives every time a gen completes, shows all items in a large radius around you.
There's plenty of good no downside perks.
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Off the record is far from being a better DS.
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At the cost of furthering the objective on the survivor side. Longer matches benefit killer and that's why the patch added ten seconds to gens. Deep wounds, conspicuous actions, getting off gens to complete secondary objectives or procing a perk. All these extend matches. Time is on the side of killer, not solo queue.
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Killer perks are much better.
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Solo queue can run coordination, but then they can't fit in both an exhaustion and OTR. Just to add to the side of killer perks, Fearmonger. Can entirely negate a solo survivors loadout if it's based around coordination and an exhaustion, I know from experience. It's really overtuned.
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No Way Out: the Killer has to play inefficiently to get maximum value.
Deadlock: the Killer loses an entire Generator for 30 seconds of blockage which gets countered by splitting up on Generators.
Eruption: the Killer has to kick a Generator. The Incapacitated Status Effect can be countered by letting go off the Generator (harder for SoloQ but still not an op Perk).
Pain Resonance: the Killer has to hook a Survivor on 2 of 4 Scourge Hooks that are randomly scattered around the Map. The scream is nigh useless, it doesn't tell you where the Survivors are.
Simply get off the Generator to counter PR/DMS. If the Killer is succeeded using this combo, it's not the Killer that is lacking game sense.
Call Of Brine: the Killer has to kick a Generator, is only active for 60 seconds and can he countered by hitting Great Skill-Checks.
The typical Huntress has seven hatchets, Artist has infinite crows, Deathslinger never runs out of ammo.
So Deathslinger should run out of ammo mid-Trial because you think it's too hard to dodge left/right? My God, please uninstall
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Survivor can destroy hex perk but killer can't destroy boon.
Killer need shattered hope perk to destroy boon totems.
Survivor perk can recover.
Survivor still have circle of healing.
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In regards to Reassurance, what are you even talking about? Chasing after the killer? Stops gen progress? I can tell you 100% that Reassurance, in the way it currently is, will absolutely be the best perk in the game. Even if they nerf it, it will still probably be the best perk in the game.
And Endurance seems like it's always a benefit? You understand the alternative is going into the dying state, right?
For the killer perks you mentioned.
No Way Out - Yes, very solid perk. Just all around very good. Requires you to have hooked everyone at least once to get meaningful time. You're also not required to wait next to the exit gate. You might want to consider walking somewhere else. Killers have a very hard time finding survivors without searching at survivor objectives. This is due to how the game never technically requires the survivors to interact with the killer. If killers couldn't see survivor objectives, then killers would probably never find survivors and this game would be pretty boring.
Deadlock - Um... how is this at all like Tinkerer? Yes, it tells you the generator with the most progress after the current one. But, remember that survivors will know that you know which generator they're on. You can't kick a blocked generator. They will pre-run because there's no reason not to because they can't work on the generator. There are some matches I've had where Deadlock goes off on a generator at the beginning and then goes off on that same generator the entire game because it's never kicked and nobody ever goes back to it. At that point, it becomes a dead perk.
Eruption - You physically have to move to the generator, kick it, and then get a down before someone finishes the generator. Incapacitated only happens if someone is on the generator. If you're kicking a generator in the middle of a chase, that chase will likely last a lot longer due to the time spent kicking. It also has a cooldown that commonly causes it not to synergize well with some other kicking perks like Pop. Because after you down someone, hook them, and kick the first generator you find, it's pretty common for 30 seconds not to have passed. I don't really understand what you mean by the yellow aura that tells the killer you're patrolling that part of the map? Do survivors patrol areas of the map? The yellow aura also doesn't tell the killer anything? It just tells the killer "Eruption is currently active on this generator."
Pain Resonance - Agreed this perk is strong. Requires you to use one of the Scourge Hooks which are in random areas. Sometimes requires wasting time to travel to a further hook or a hook that's not in a good position to defend. I'm also really starting to question if you know what Tinkerer does. I have no idea what a Tinkerer scream is. If you mean the notification bubble that pops up when Tinkerer goes off (not a scream), Pain Resonance doesn't do that anymore. I don't like the synergy with DMS, but just let go of the generator before the hook (which you can physically see with an aura before the effect happens) and DMS won't proc so the killer will have no idea where you are.
Call of Brine - Ok I've figured it out now. You think that the bubble is called Tinkerer. The bubble for this perk only goes off when you get a great skill check, which may not happen ever, and this perk is otherwise worthless if someone taps the generator immediately after you kick it. It also requires you to kick the generator. Kicking a generator = losing a chase. Plenty of downsides. It's still a good perk but to say it has no downsides is strange.
Many of these perks have downsides. They're strong perks but to say they have no downsides is just wrong.
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God i cant take this post seriously when this guy cant see how OTR and Reassurance are powerhouse perks.
They are not just good, they are amazing.
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Kicking generators is a really low bar to set for slowdown/Tinkerer perks. Pain Resonance was obnoxious before the patch, it's worse now. The combo with DMS doesn't have a place in the game anymore. Killers have so many options to hinder survivors whereas as survivors do not a real counter to it; it starts to feel like favoritism post-patch when the killer stacks all these add-ons/perks that are meant to hinder the survivor. Eruption is anti-solo queue. Deadlock is guaranteed and does what it does well. It's guaranteed slowdown and notification. Again, longer matches favor killers. It blocks gens and requires survivors to make meaningful progress on all seven gens. That's a long match, guaranteed. NWO, four unique hooks is not hard.
Regarding Deathslinger, I rarely go against him but he's my most played as killer when I still play.
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Lmao, another survivor main who has obviously never touched killer. Literally nobody else has issues with these perks. DH and OTR aren’t strong? Lol wut
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The scream is pretty good mate. You can pretty reliably tell where its coming from unless there are multiple generators in the same direction. Dont discard it as useless.
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I play Deathslinger on PS4. The perks I run are QoL and ones that enhance his power. It makes for a funner game for everybody.
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What is your reasoning? I mentioned both the strong and weak sides to the perks. Not working on gens is not a point in favor of their strength. The patch was to extend matches which favors killers.
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25% of a Killer's loadout (Fearmonger) negates 75% of your loadout.
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This just screams: "I dislike everything that makes escaping somewhat hard!!1!"
PR/DMS doesn't exist anymore, and it never has existed. The only reason it was run is because bad Survivors are the majority and they didn't know how to deal with it, and you are one of those Survivors.
Most Killer meta Perks got absolutely destroyed by 6.1.0. The Killer meta basically doesn't exist anymore. There are a few Perks that are still good, but nowhere near as strong as pre-6.1.0. If you're having trouble escaping, that is a skill issue, simple as.
It blocks gens and requires survivors to make meaningful progress on all seven gens.
This made me laugh. Of course requiring meaningful progress on multiple Generators was apparently a downside for Survivors. I didn't know splitting up on Generators was inefficient. Everyone on this Forum should applaud you for your third-eye awakening moment. Splitting up on Generators is worse than multiple Survivors working on a single one.
Please, you might aswell rename yourself to Sluzzy_2.0. Nobody should take you seriously
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You're kind of ignoring perk descriptions as it fits you....
I mean brine and eruption require that the killer moves to the Gen to kick it, plus eruption also requires a down.
PR requires a scourge hook, plus it no longer gives information.
No way out is not free either.
If you are going to try to make a point you should use facts.
Anyway, the trend to place limits and restrictions on perks applies to both sides. The more powerful the effects, the more astringent the limits tend to be.
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What are my reasoning for thinking a perk that gives you endurance for up to 80 seconds of an unhook that only gets taken away if you heal yourself or touch a gen that also comes bundled with 80 seconds of stealth that includes removal of grunts of pain and complete immunity to aura reading is great? Oh and you keep the stealth part even if you touch gens or heal yourself.
What are my reasoning for thinking why a perk that single handedly obliterates camping, the literal most complained about thing in game is great?
Just ... dude. I understand the mentality of grass is always greener on the other side but this is just insane at this point.
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I'm going by the logic of the developers. The patch is meant to extend matches because it benefits killers. You can't work on this gen with meaningful progress anymore because of a perk, Deadlock. Get on a new one. There's only so much time. Good luck working on seven gens. Time is wasted in solo queue because there's no basekit coordination. Add perks on top of it, time is not on the side of solo survivors.
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Kicking a gen, getting a down, finding a scourge hook, hooking different survivors. Killers are not asked to be like Sisyphus.
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So this post was about SoloQ Survivors not having the coordination required to deal with said Perks, and not about the Perks themselves being too strong. Stop creating threads with a title that has nothing to do with the actual contents of the thread
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Tinkerer is shorthand for any perk that eliminates the need for the killer to have gamesense. If I'm hooked at the time the exit gates are powered and the Entity's claws begin to impale me/changes the orientation of the camera, I might not be able to get to see where the exit gates actually are. Yet, the killer is able to see where they are throughout the entirety of endgame. Considering that strong survivor perks now deactivate during endgame and thematic choices (like the claws changing the orientation of the camera) hinder survivor gameplay, I don't think it's too much to ask killers to remember where the exit gates are. This is hand-holding.
Reassurance requires survivors to not be on gens and brings the survivor to the killer. That's not a strong perk, much less the stronger perk in the game
As far as the killer perks, these are perks that are run by streamers that main killer that win 90-95% of their matches, if not more. Hexy and Pro Vengeance are the main examples. They're not particularly skilled mechanically, but they never lose. These are their perks, though, and it's a way to understand their success.
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This is what we call a home run answer
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In what universe is gaining a free health state in exchange for deepwound and the need to mend a downside?
Who cares if it gives the killer another stack of STBFL, they didn't down you when they should have!
That's like completing a gen, only to have a killer perk instantly regress it to 50% because you tried to complete it. (triggered by the very act of completing it)
And you're conveniently missing out all of the Hex perks (killer perks that survivors can delete), and a number of new limited perks such as Thanatophobia (loses 60% of it's power when a survivor is sacrificed), Ruin (deleted when a survivor is sacrificed) and Corrupt (deleted when a survivor is downed).
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Killers have everything at their disposal to win chases. A perk that can extend the chase like Dead Hard does require skill at this point. Using it well, though, comes with a downside that helps the killer. There's no reason for it to apply deep wounds. I'm never going to use Dead Hard and never have. I use Sprint Burst because it's a break from looking like your character is running through a swamp.
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That doesn't obliterate camping. If you're working on a gen with OTR, it's because the killer let you. The strong part of the perk is being able to take an extra hit, but that goes away when working on a gen. Regardless, camping is free for the killer. Obliterate camping through basekit measures, not perks that deactivate in endgame.
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You're not on the floor, you're still up and running about, and you only need to mend once you're safe, you can simply hold down the sprint button indefinitely, and again, you're not dead.
How entitled does a survivor need to be to think that Endurance isn't good enough. It's the survivor equivalent of Exposed.
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Current Dead Hard is a skillful perk that can extend a chase that would otherwise end because the killer has everything at his/her disposal to win chases. It's a perk that allows for skillful play, it's not entitlement. Smash Hit requires a pallet stun which requires skill. It does not come with deep wounds, though. Entitlement has nothing do with it. That's a seriously overused term on this forum, in fact.
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How to say you don't play killer without saying you don't play killer.
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I play PS4 Deathslinger. I also make it to Division 7 Arena in Fortnite, standard controller without paddles. Want to guess which is harder?
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The killer gets to see the objective they have to defend. Arguing that they shouldnt see exit gates is like arguing they shouldnt see generator auras.
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Give them five seconds to figure out where they are and that's more than enough. Survivors get no more and if one is hooked when the gates are powered, the camera swings in a such a way when the Entity impales you that you might not even get the chance to see where the gates are at.
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And right there you lose all credibility in your arguement. You can see where the doors are by teammate auras while they 99 the gates. May as well just get rid of all aura reading on both sides, scratch marks/blood, skill check notification sounds, and red light/terror radius too.
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Yes, that is literally the point. Congratulations.
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The killer can see a 99'd gate as well as a survivor. Perks like OTR and DS deactivate when the gates are powered, so why are killers still given the aura of the exit gates for the duration of endgame?
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No they killer knows where the gate is they dont know if someone is opening it or if it's 99ed or if they have to contend 1 door or both, which you can see on the hook with your hand holding aura reading. As for perks borrowed time still works dead hard still works, OTR/DS are disabled because they can basically give an automatic escape with no effort from the survivor. Its also funny using OTR/DS as an example when you were complaining about them earlier in the thread.
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those perks have downsides..... pain res require a hook. No way out requires multiple hooks to attain the minute of slowdown. Eruption and call of brine require the killer to go out of their way(secondary objective) to kick generators.
the only perk i agree with is deadlock but technically survivor can stack multiple people one generator with prove thyself and counter it as it will block a useless generator that was not being worked on.
dh has no downsides if the killer chases you and downs you.
OTR is 3 perks into one. Iron will, BT for 80 seconds and immunity to aura.
PT is 30% faster gens for playing survivor.
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Conspicuous Actions is needed because of how DS originally worked. You have DS which was a anti tunnel perk but on old days you could do everything and not deactivate it. If your working on a Gen your not being chased by the Killer so you don't need DS anymore, same goes for endurance effects too if you do anything that's considered a conspicuous action your not being tunneled by the Killer.
Haven't Survivors for the longest time WANT a secondary objective to do instead of Gens anyway.....
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Well let surv perks apply to the 4 survs. Then it would be 16 vs 4 perks. Now is 4 perks vs 4 perks.
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Camping is a non-issue 90% of the time.
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Wait why is STBFL listed as meta? If we apply your logic to it we would need to describe it as "Forces over 75% of the killer cast to either abandon chases or lose valuable perk stacks to hit the obsession! It literally turns itself off for playing the game! Don't even get me started on obsessions body blocking to force you to lose stacks...."
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Admittedly, I fail to see the problem here.
Can you please explain WHY this is a balance issue?
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Lot of survivor perks are actually quite stronger than killer's tbh lol
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Current Mettle of Man, Dead Hard, and Off the Record aren't that strong of perks. They're in no way comparable to old Decisive Strike. As far as secondary objective, that's Pinhead's box, right? Solo queue doesn't have math on their side and when it comes to that. He's S-Tier.
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There are survivor perks better than Beast of Prey, yes.
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