Reassurance could set a worrying trend
So the meta shifting patch was made for multiple reasons. One of which was to allow players to experiment with other perk options outside the meta since the meta had become to rigid and strong. As survivor (solo especially) running BT, DS and an exhaustion perk was basically required.
So the new RE chapter comes out and lo and behold BHVR are back at their old habits. Reassurance is a hard counter to camping that is downright necessary when playing solo due to coordination being a suggestion rather than a reality. BHVR can buff all the weaker perks you want but if they don’t add base kit camping and tunnelling deterrents than these perks will be ran every game
So instead of your build being DS, BT and exhaustion it’s now OTR, reassurance, exhaustion. Perk variety has gone back to as bad as before basically. I really hope this trend doesn’t continue but I fear it will
Comments
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Did you expect anything different?
It was like expecting a tiger to stop hunting other animals. Some things do not change easily.
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Admittedly I wasn’t but this patch was actually the chance to change their design philosophy around perks being band aids for game mechanics.
But as usual they slapped a perk on to camping and said “fixed it!”
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To be fair. That is how metas work. You remove one another pops up. There will always be a "best" build. Thats why they plan to do the meta shake ups as much as possible. (They said this on the last one near the bottom) so they are aware of needing to constantly change the meta.
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It's a strategy, the base counter is also a strategy: Making use of their lack of pressure on others to slam gens.
You are not meant to have a hard counter to a strategy, that is bad design. Even things like Reassurance can be prevented by killing a survivor before they get close enough to activate it. Hard counters take precedence over skill, which is bad.
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Survivors still need something strong to stop tunneling or at least balanced it so that killer loses most games they do that. Ds should be basekit for both hook state with the 3s stun. Perk would make it 5s stun. And the skill check should be automatic or easy so it help new players and I don't have to break my controller to do the skill check.
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You are literally advocating that a player should lose most games just for using a strategy. LOL
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You know with the 90 second gen time its actually impossible to do all 5 gens before the facecamper (normally bubba) kills the person on hook right?So facecamping bubba is guaranteed a 2k at least. Throw deadlock and noed on and you got the reason why facecamping bubbas average a 3k killrate. If the way to get a 2k+ is standing still doing nothing. That is even worse design.
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Exactly this, but some killers don’t see that unfortunately.
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Only if the Survivor spawns on a Hook. A good Survivor can lead Bubba on a chase that can take up to 2-3 Generators
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We all hoped for change but what we got instead was the same "meta" with different perks
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My problem is that the meta will never go away from anti tunnelling and camping perks regardless of what they change. Sure they can add another but that doesn’t fix the issue it just adds a different cost of paint on it
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Well, the killer META is still slowdown/regression so that didn’t change. Survivor META changed to endurance, I guess, but that’s still anti-tunnel. So it didn’t change either, really.
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I mean isn't this the first meta to feature anti-camp? Call me stupid if im wrong. But the last anti-camp per we got was steves right? And it was memey at best. I do like seeing Reassurance having a chance to shine. Campers are used to being ignored by perks.
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Thats what happens when you don't address the underlying issues, just perk adjustments here and basekit tweaks there. The meta will still keep the same direction, just under different names and methods.
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They remedied the concerns for killers, namely the generators, chases, and hits. Despite those changes, killers still run slowdown perks, so nothing was accomplished. Survivors still have to deal with tunneling, slugging, and camping as the base kit changes provide no relief. Survivors are in the same place, being compelled to run certain perks to staying competitive.
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I wouldn't say Kinship is a memey perk. It's very strong as extending hook timer by 30 seconds is a lot of time and it's range is really large so it's easy to trigger. It's really the problem of coordination and without. It's really good for coordinated teams to extend hook timer out to finish gens. It doesn't really do anything when everyone is solo q and has no idea you have the perk.
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Ahhh man, people still go for this stuff. Camping, standing still, is NOT a strategy. A strategy is, and always has been, something that requires thought, planning. A strategy is a means (that might not work, otherwise it would be known as a certainty) to an end. Waiting for someone to die while in front of him, or while doing small lapses around him, is NOT a strategy. One could MAYBE argue that, although cheap and pathetic, tunneling is a strategy, as it gets a weaker survivor out of the picture. But standing still? Never. Cheapness and strategy aren't the same thing. And skill, by the way, is exactly what lacks in the aforementioned camping (and tunneling as well). Hell, the vast majority of both killer and survivor players in this game have no idea about what skill is, not even the slightest hint.
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It will go away from camping and tunneling when other strategies become as viable again. This doesn't mean buffing x/y/z so that "killers can be even stronger" it means rewarding play that directly averts away from the most efficient strategies. Less stick, more carrot.
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perks are designed to customize the way a player wishes to approach winning in a game. they also there to counter your most disliked strategy. You only get 4 perks, so you have to pick wisely for what strategies you want to counter because of the rest of strategies that you do not counter have to be coped with.
most people do not like coping with tunneling and camping, hence they use perks to weaken its effectiveness. It just so happens that everyone shares that sentiment so those perks are the perceived meta strategy.
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Not really, even SWF teams are not using Kinship. Because everyone knows it is just joke level perk. 30 seconds is nothing to stopping campers. And you need another survivor for activate it. We are not seeing this perk for a reason, it is garbage.
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A meta, although I highly despise what it entails and all the players who only ever play "meta" stuff, means that something is stronger than something else. It shouldn't mean that something is extremely strong and pretty much everything else sucks to the point of being a hindrance, which is what DbD has been for most of its lifetime. That is just wrong.
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I'll probably still be running SC/BK/Bite the Bullet (or OoO)/Overcome (or Lithe).
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The thing is, though, Reassurance is mostly beneficial if a killer isn't proactively finding other survivors to chase. If killers who currently face camp adapt to a Reassurance meta by shifting tactics to more aggressively finding survivors and slugging for pressure (which is how I play) then the perk probably won't even be much of a factor. Which could mean a cycle of periods where Reassurance is popular because survivors feel killers are face camping, killers face camping less, Reassurance being used less, and then killers who liked face camping before switching back to it, etc.
So unlike some other popular meta perks it's one that is really mainly useful only against a particular type of camping strategy. Compare Reassurance to, say, Windows of Opportunity which is one of the most popular perks at the moment and which is useful pretty much no matter what killer you're facing and how they're playing. Or Sprint Burst, another one that's really popular and also broadly useful in a variety of situations.
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I don't understand why people are phrasing this as a 'band-aid fix' when the solution taking up a part of a survivors power budget is not only reasonable, but the only healthy way to implement any kind of meaningful changes to camping without severe abuse potential or needing additional buffs to killers to compensate.
It being a perk isn't some kind of lame half-measure, it being a perk is literally the POINT. Otherwise, the hook timer becomes ostensibly meaningless, and basic hook pressure loses most of its power (Not facecamping from full, but following scratchmarks or hooking someone in a solid position like a hill or 3 gen) because survivors would be able to run all of their normal perks !and! not have to fully commit to unhooks without risk of a hook-state loss.
I love Reassurance, and while it might need some very small tweaks to prevent weird SWF hostage taking, I think it should hit live otherwise mostly untouched. Its already very strong as a one or two of pick out of 4, taking up a perk slot. It would be far too strong as a basekit option for all 4.
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This isn't a 'healthy way to implement any kind of meaningful change.'
Healthy would be redesigning the core mechanics that make camping & tunneling viable strategies in the first place.
First and foremost, DBD is a game that people play for their own entertainment.
It should be the goal of the developer to make the game entertaining for as long, and for as many people, as possible.
The game's entertainment currently hinges too much on goodwill, of which there is simply not enough to go around in the gaming community.
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'Goodwill' + 'Elimination Game' = LOL for most people.
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Constantly wanting to change the meta has potential to backfire tho, especially in this game.
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Yeah. I can't really say anything here but +1. The takeaway I'm getting from this is that despite their intentions to shake up the meta, and some choices that implied they understood how it formed and became so dominant... they haven't learned.
My only hope is that Reassurance may function like old-old DS (the longstanding version where it didn't deactivate for conspicuous actions) where the threat of it discouraged tunneling whether or not it was present. Actually having to bring an anti-facecamp perk every game is a hard step backwards and not at all how I wanted them to address this issue.
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Yeah and the sky is blue.
It doesn’t take away the fact that it is not balanced nor is it “fun”. One would say the person on the hook doesn’t get to participate in the match. Which is bad for the health and prosperity of the game.
It is bad a bad look and will not attract new players. Especially because nothing is in place to suggest that survivors have options beyond perks. Imagine telling someone new who doesn’t know what DBD is and you get to the part where you explain how the majority of killers camp a survivor out with the survivor unable to do much and only holding out so the rest of the team can hold M1 longer. It doesn’t sound like fun.
Also since when is Camping a skillful tactic? Because the devs told you so?
Thank god you’re not in charge of game design. Because those takes are terrible.
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There is no way to make camping and tunneling "Not viable strategies" baseline without fundamentally changing every single aspect of the game, unless you want to break it in half.
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That carrot would have to be more of a problem than tunnelling/camping, so no, that's not an option. Tunnelling and camping really need to be beaten down, and with basekit stuff, not band-aid perks.
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So says a person afraid of change.
I've seen it suggested that survivors should share hook states, and the killer cannot sacrifice a survivor until they have reached X number of hook states. This would put killers like Onryo and Myers in a unique position where they can bypass the hook counter to kill survivors, and open the door to new killer and/or add-on designs that are centered around pre-mature moris.
One can only speculate what this would mean for the health of the game (i.e. would it really fix tunneling?), but it definitely doesn't break the game--some killers already play with 12 hooks as their win condition.
This is just one suggestion. It of course has a few kinks to work out, but it suggests that something can be done without breaking the game.
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To be fair, that would be a pretty fundamental overhaul.
On the other hand, I'd say you can make camping considerably less viable by boosting the counter. For every survivor working on a gen, if the killer is too close to the hook, the hook speed is reduced by 5% per survivor. Yes, that's 'per survivor' twice, so one survivor slows it by 5%, two by 20% (2 x 10%), and three by 45%.
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that idea is a perk. devour hope. devour hope gives you 5 collective hook states across entire team and after that. the killer can mori any survivor regardless of hooks.
pre-mature mori were offering, ebony mori and green mori, but since the condition of those mori's were based off hooks, those mori turbo buffed tunneling. i'm sure survivor remembered the days of getting unhooked without BT, getting downed and then getting mori instantly off hook 2 sec after.
very well-balanced offerings /s
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How would you even implement this in a way that is remotely good for the game? How would killers with weaker starts or that rely on snowballing pressure by hooks instead of slugging even function when you have to bypass x amount of hooks to progress the gamestate against any given survivor?
The threat of being on death hook makes players have to be a lot more cautious. If anything, this change would !encourage! tunneling, because there would be literally zero real reward for actually taking chases against stronger loopers. It would also just outright be a massive nerf to a significant portion of the roster that don't have strong anti-loop because they need to make the most out of every down, or rely more on macro play.
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I mean, we did get a hotfix with 3 perk changes, so they are definitely doing more for the game's balance than ever before in my opinion.
So my hope is that they will nerf camping and tunneling in the near future. I am definitely happy with Reassurance, but it's certainly not the answer to camping and tunneling. Definitely a nice additional counter to camping, but those strategies still need to be addressed at base as well, they are still too effective currently.
And it would honestly be ridiculous if BHVR really started to simply address problems with perks and that's it again, like 1 month after the big balance patch that was supposed to make killers and survivors less dependent on certain perks.
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A cheap strategy like tunneling? Of course, that's how you properly design an online game. You make sure both sides have effective strategies that are fun for the other side, and the unfun bullcrap gets weakened as much as possible.
Killers will just have to not tunnel and camp, and play normally. And then they still have a fair chance of winning against survivors.
Making sure a game is as fun as possible as often as possible is kind of important. And in this context, it would also be kind of important in order to finally even out these freaking queue times.
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Another big issue is that a lot of what some people call "Tunnelling" or "Camping" includes things that are entirely normal gameplay that should in no way be punished or discouraged. Sometimes people just get caught multiple times after theres been a chance to reset. Sometimes they straight up heal under hook. People literally get fully healed, sit on a gen, and then complain about tunnelling if they get downed again.
Sometimes survivors either focus gens instead of getting an unhook, or get caught and downed going for a failed rescue attempt, and leave the killer with the option to force a hook stage or force the remaining survivors off gens with the threat.
There are already plenty of situations where overly altruistic survivors will show themselves at two different directions near a hook so that the moment a killer leaves the other gets the unhook and a reset. How do you implement baseline changes without that strategy being basically non-counterable for most of the cast? The killer isn't doing anything wrong by sticking near the hook under those conditions, why are you suggesting they be punished for it?
No basekit change is going to be able to simultaneously punish facecamping a full health state, or hardcore tunnelling the entire match without also overtly punishing killers for normal gameplay or being far too forgiving of mistakes by the survivors.
You !cannot! give survivors overly significant forcefields and "can't touch me" mechanics baseline without also completely changing the format of the entire game, killers are and have always been on a 4v1 clock ticking down the entire match. Harsh anti-"tunneling" features would just mean survivors coming off hook get a free perk slot every unhook and carte blanche to do objectives without threat.
And, we've already seen the massive tantrum people throw when gens get baseline touches, or strong survivor perks get nerfed. You'd see a similar hissy fit if massive changes also came with nerfs to survivor macro.
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Nah, they only do it a couple of times till they hit high MMR sweat squads and get humbled .
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I actually can't wait for half the survivors running Reassurance, as I don't camp, but go out there, hunting.
It will be a situation just like with Shattered Hope, a cool perk when it counters the hated tactic used by the opposition, but utterly useless and a waste of space if they don't.
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