Attempting to patch "hug tech" seems like misdirected effort that will only cause more problems.
Hug tech looks flashy. It has the benefit of being able to use less Rushes. The downsides are that it is significantly less weaker and tremendously easier to counter than bump logic. All it takes to counter hug tech (and any other form of intentionally designed sliding) is to just leave the surface, and Blight will slide past you.
So trying to patch it in the first place just seems like a waste of effort and time that could be better directed elsewhere. Sure, it’s an unintentional method of sliding even though sliding as a whole is an intentional mechanic. But it’s not actually problematic balance-wise.
Furthermore, in the process of trying to patch this, it will likely further break collisions for Blight and/or other killers, or even survivors too. If Blight’s collision logic is changed, it will probably horribly mess up bump and non-hug tech sliding collisions. If map object collisions are changed, it will likely create major bugs for every single killer and even survivors.
Comments
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Yeah he'll slide past you...if he doesn't attack...which he'll have no reason not to????
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You do realize if you actually left the surface properly (break LOS and then separate immediately), he literally cannot reach you in time when he realizes?
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I think I'd rather see what they produce first, before calling it a waste of time.
I do think that the hug tech, coupled with Blight abnormally large initial swing hitbox can make for some very unfair situations.
It's not something that I'm super concerned about but boy it does not feel good when you find a car loop and you just know you're gonna get hit around it.
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Most Blights aren't going to hug tech around an obstacle where they can't see the survivor though are they?
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??? That’s one of the most common places to use it at, because you use it to slide around instead of spending multiple Rushes to ricochet. Also on many objects, you have to look down to even have a chance to slide well meaning your vision is even further reduced.
If there’s a pallet, it doesn’t even matter because you just drop the pallet on him. The exact issue with waiting for the result is that it’ll probably create massive bugs.
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The issue there is that if you are in a position where the Blight can't see you trying to break LOS, you also can't see them hugging their way towards you.
You've gotta guess.
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That’s literally part of mindgaming. If Blight usually tries to go for sliding at tiles like that, then you already have an idea of what to expect. Blight also has to guess if they’re going to expect sliding and just peel off.
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He can change his Rush direction when he's at the end of the car. He can start sliding one way, then go another. With Speed add-ons, there isn't much of an opportunity to react to that.
Unless you are suggesting Survivors simply camp pallets and drop them instantly against Blight (which is a sure-fire way to lose fast on most maps), I'm not seeing the idea here.
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You do realize that breaking line of sight isn't actually possible at a lot of loops? Most Blights aren't going to bother hug teching if they can't see you in the first place.
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Except, they can keep sliding and just use another Rush to catch up to you.
You don't make enough distance to get anywhere on most maps.
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The only tiles that is super hard to play against without a great guess are ones that are super weak against any killer regardless because of how small the tile is and how useless it is besides the pallet. Tiles that aren’t that super small are a lot more even.
First of all, if you don’t break LOS, you literally see what Blight is trying to do. Second of all, on most objects, Blight has to look down to not slam the object.
It takes time to readjust, find something to slam on, and then turn all the way back around and then resume chase with someone who would’ve made multiple turns by then. Let alone if you can’t slam on something because nothing to use for redirection on at your angle/distance. How fast Blight goes ends up backfiring in situations like this because it takes him way off.
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Do you think Blights are just walking up to loops, staring at the ground, and then just continuing to stare at the ground while bashing their face into the wall over and over?
You look down for like, a split second, to hug tech. That is not enough time to break line of sight.
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Hey BHVR, please don't fix bug. Let's us abuse it more.
No, thanks. I hope next mid-chapter removes this bug forever from game.
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I love the whole "it's not actually that effective, it's just to show off" defence people use to argue why it shouldn't be removed
legit the same argument was used for jflicking
Personally I hope they fix it but make Blight's collision better. The argument I heard from that one Lilithomen video where he's like "survivors will HATE bump logic blight" - like if a killer being used the way they are supposed to is problematic, it'll be changed regardless of if they leave in these bugs.
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I honestly see a majority of the blights do this at objects that are of the low lying variety. Mainly cars. I for one am happy that it's being looked at because if it is unintentional then it shouldn't even have a chance to be in play imo. Though, I do worry about the bugs that may come as a result but then again this is Dead By Daylight is it not?
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They’re not patching it. No dev has said it’s going to be patched. It was simply said it was being looked at, the same way “spinning” got looked at.
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If hug tech would only look flashy and not actually be a ridiculously potent tool in Blight's chase game, you wouldn't see top Blights use it all the time and wreck teams doing so. Blight even outperforms Nurse in tournaments, since players are more consistent with him, averaging 3.X kills. And that's with Alchemist Ring, Adrenaline Vial and C33 banned. Blight is not a balanced killer, removing hug tech would go a long way to make him more challenging to play and transparent to play against, because you would actually need bump logic much more often, and sometimes you would just have to force down a pallet vanilla, since bump logic alone actually does not get you some hits around tiles that hug tech enables you to land consistently. And hug techs are definitely not easy to play around at all, especially once speed add-ons come into play. Often it's a 50/50 at best, and that's if you have a reasonably safe pallet and fast reactions, otherwise it's more like a guaranteed hit.
An alternative would be making Blight 4.4m/s, as that would more so justify being able to use his ability on basically every single tile like hug tech enables one to. And his add-ons have to be rebalanced anyway of course.
Personally I don't want them to remove hug tech simply because it increases the mechanical skill ceiling as well as the option tree and indeed flashiness of the killer, but from a balance perspective I realize that it is something that could be done to make him much less of a problem. His kit is already clearly overtuned without it, and I'm not sure I would like the alternative of 4.4m/s movespeed either. Although I suppose there could also be other ways to rebalance him without needing to touch hug techs, such as making it so that his rush tokens recharge much slower, albeit perhaps with the trade-off that players can use rush tokens at any time, without needing to wait until they're all recharged again.
Ultimately I would not be all that worried about Blight. He's clearly a killer BHVR had intended to be and continually have kept overtuned, since he has such an integral role within their original lore. That they haven't even touched any of his busted add-ons and instead even buffed Vial is only one of various blatant signs of how much they want Blight to be ridiculously strong. So if they do end up touching his collision logic (which they very well might not, or at least not for another few years, BHVR is slow like that), don't be surprised if they make some sort of intentional sliding part of it. And it's a little ridiculous to complain anyway given that hug tech has been a thing for years and years now, people have had more than their fun with it.
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you mean like these type of hug tech's right at the start of the video? i would say the most effective way to deal with it is to break away from loop because most blights will slide along edge of surfaces of the loop. its similar to dealing with billy chainsaw curving.
i'm pretty sure that experienced blights use it at least 10 times per match. removing it would make blight so clunky, you would just bump into every object that you don't want to bump into. hug tech is very important skill for blight because it gives more control for the blight player to control what he has to bump into vs what he doesn't want to bump into.
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They can look, but they can't touch, honey. But seriously, I doubt they know how to fix it.
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Even if he would have immediately run away, he still would've gotten hit there.
Even if he hadn't, the Blight had THREE more rushes to get a hit.
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its not about running away from loop. its about moving outwards from loop because it makes blight player guess whether he needs to curve along path of the loop or move outwards.
Even if the blight does get an angle to swing by predicting your pathing from going outwards, you can do something what i will refer to as shimmy. some people will refer to it as wiggling. this is somewhat of FOV technique where you make killer believe that your walking far right, but on very last second, you go left. it works reverse way as well, going far left then going right at very last second.
if you loop outwards toward a loop and then wiggle, 9/10, the blight won't expect it and he'll miss. its really hard to predict it when doing hug tech because you need to look down at camera to slide along obstacle so when you get around the corner, you have very little time to adjust your orientation to go for the swing.
out in the open, shimmy rarely work against good blights because they can read your movement easier, like what I tend to do is angle myself to the left or the right, then max distance swing diagonally so that I hit them at the end of my lethal rush.
If you want an example of what I'm talking about look at 3:40-3:50 in the video. the ace does what I'm talking about. its very hard for blight to counter wiggling with his lethal rush during a hug tech.
this technique also works against Oni's demon rush by the way.
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That’s what I’m saying.. lol. They aren’t patching the hug tech.
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The thing is BHVR doesn't ever just throw out work they did.
If they spend a bunch of time making something horrible, they won't walk back on it even if there is a ton of negative feedback because they are addicted to the sunk cost fallacy (see billy overheat)
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Many tiles require you to continue to look down to hug tech.
Not all, but many. One of blights bump detectors is attached to his camera and if you face it forward it can potentially detect a piece of the object you are sliding on. Car loop mirrors are a perfect example of this. If you are not looking down when you slide past them, they will bump you.
An actually reversed example is any macmillian loop with a blue tarp on it. The blight cannot hug tech that unless they stare directly into the sky as they pass the blue tarp or else it will bump them, which blinds them completly.
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Oh?
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Nah, screw hug tech, screw j-flicks, and screw all the other BS exploits that have come with Blight.
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I am utterly baffled by the defense of exploits for a top tier killer. This isn't like trapper getting more traps or free add-ons, this is a killer that when I get a bad map offering when playing as him I think "it might be close to a fair match now". I see no distinction between legitimate cheaters and these players when they puff their chest and brag about their "win". I actually think higher of the cheaters when they admit their use of cheating programs, at least they have the self-respect to admit they are using "all the tools at their disposal", no matter how uncouth.
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I don't really have a problem with Hug Tech being removed, I don't think good Blights will have any trouble with getting hits without it.
It's not something that I'm super concerned about but boy it does not feel good when you find a car loop and you just know you're gonna get hit around it.
You must hate Demogorgon sliding around cars and want it fixed aswell, or does it only apply when you're talking about a Killer you don't like?
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A very good Blight streamer has argued that fixing "hug tech" will make Blight stronger.
Beside the obvious risk to break every collision in the game, I'm not worried too much.
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It is a bug and it must go.
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The swing hitbox your talking about Is only massive for about .2 second after starting the lunge, then it turns into a very thin hitbox that is easy to dodge. That's why the hug tech and flicks that go along with it only work if the survivor lets it. That's why most good blights will be trying to reposition until they can basically get their initial lunge to start with the blight and the survivors hitbox connected. Spinning a blight
^ This dude knows what he's talking about.
Yes blight is hard to counter and you might have to go out of your way to learn how to do so. But so what every other multiplayer game is like that. You might as well not be trying to do anything if you are getting hit by A lot of hug tech hits.
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They will probably mess with map geometry and try to fix it that way
So expect to hit invisible barriers again
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Just make that he cannot look down while using the rush? No changes to his hitbox and is a simple solution
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His argument essentially boils down to
"if you remove it, more blights will use bump logic aka playing him the way he's intended to be played and survivors will hate this because it has little to no counterplay/it's more effective than hug tech"
Despite the fact that normal Blight is pretty balanced and has counterplay so...
???
It's an extremely weak argument
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That would prevent him from hitting survivors that are falling underneath him mid rush
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Hang on a second
Wasn't that the exact same argument for keeping j-flicks? And moonrushes? And every other Blight exploit under the sun?
"X exploit is fine because it's actually weaker than bump logic" is such a funny argument to me
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The same exact thing was said about survivors spinning. That wasn’t fixed was it? A lot of bugs get implemented as regular mechanics. It has happened countless times in countless games, including this one. I haven’t seen a dev comment on the hug tech being fixed. 🫠
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Lot of you act like just anybody can hop onto blight and pull off hug techs and flicks. Most new blights have to disregard his power and be an m1 killer for awhile because they can’t figure his rushes out.
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Yeah I watched Lilithomen's video about the whole hug tech thing and it is almost word for word the same arguments as keeping jflick. His video is basically the same as the other Blight main who made one for Jflick, Ascension I think his name was.
"Bump logic is better and has less counterplay"
"It has counterplay"
"Unintended mechanics blah blah Combos in fighting games"
"Survivors will hate bump logic Blight"
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I don't know. He seems to know his stuff. I guess we'll see won't we?
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I think the strongest argument he put forward was the sliding/hug tech thing helping people learn Blight or have a better time playing him with controller/on console. If that's true, I think he should def get some QOL changes to help those people
But from a balance POV I really don't understand the logic of defending a bug with the logic of "it makes blight players play less effective, it's just to show off"
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Yeah but it's a weak argument for keeping the bug unfixed though
And the weak argument of "bump logic is just better" makes no sense to me, bump logic is how he's designed to be played so why are they (in those videos) acting like Blight's only playing that way is a bad thing?
If they want to keep a bug around because they like it, think it's cool, enjoy it or whatever that's completely fine. I don't even mind it that much, even if I think it probably should get fixed in one way or another.
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It's not even about them being exploits to me, the argument is ridiculous altogether because as long as those mechanics exist(ed), you literally have bump logic plus them, they can be used simultaneously, so if the argument is that bump logic is already plenty strong, the obvious conclusion is that those mechanics are over the top.
While it is possible to hug something on your last rush and thereby combine "100% pure" bump logic rushes with hug tech, the idea that bump logic can do everything on its own just fine is simply false altogether. Hug tech enables Blight to do stuff he could only dream of without it, and that includes being able to get around tiles and making hits happen that are otherwise basically categorically impossible or at least otherwise leave much more room for survivors to make plays, as well as being able to get hits while spending less rushes, which is obviously highly impactful because you will be able to rush again earlier.
But here's just one common example of hug tech doing something that bump logic cannot nearly as well:
Red is Biight, blue is survivor. With hug tech, we simply bump once and then hug all the way around shack, flicking around the second corner. We spend 2 rush tokens here and we get to the survivor as quickly and reliably as possible, flying around the corner.
Bumping our way around this same scenario means that first, we need objects around shack to bump off of to begin with (corner bumps on shack have weird collision and this changes depending on shacks as well, plus at most we could be bumping off of the first corner, and would then also need to spend quite some time in the bump window to edge past it). Not only does that mean we are spending 3 rush tokens at least here, but the further away from shack our bump points will be, the more time we are spending getting around it, i. e. the more distance the survivor will be able to make from their current position. We won't get there as quickly, we will be spending more rushes, the survivor will make more distance such that we might need to spend even more rushes or just simply cannot get to them anymore, and on top of that we are also way more predictable, because the survivor knows that in order to get to them around back, we will need to utilize bump points, so they can prepare for that much better in advance as well as tell in advance that we are actually coming around back rather than cutting through shack for example, whereas with hug tech we could be coming flying and flicking around the corner already. And of course, we can also combine the two to achieve maximum potential:
Here we utilize hugging to get around shack in one rush, and then bump to reacquire our target and prevent a preemptive dodge.
Here we bump first, then hug around shack to be able to flick around windowside corner.
And here hugging enables us to quickly intercept a vault, as well as to hug back inside if no vault happens, either by bumping again windowside and hugging back along the side wall, continuing the hug around windowside to bump somewhere palletside, or even reversing the original hug when we hear no vault notification.
Hug tech opens up options and opportunities that don't exist without it, and that's not even talking about tiles where there just isn't a way around without eating collision, and external bump points too far away to catch a survivor out. That's the case on a lot of filler pallet tiles, like MacMillan rock pallets or Autohaven junk ones for just two common examples. You can't bump logic your away around those without regularly giving the survivor a pretty secure pallet drop or vault, whereas with hug tech you can be getting around the tile before they are even able to react. Gyms can be a nightmare to bump around as well, since you will be spending a lot of rushes just turning corners and will have to do so in quick succession; bump logic regularly dictates that on tiles like that you should catch up to the survivor with W first such that you can get them by bouncing only once around one corner. With hug tech on the other hand you can be getting around the entire gym in one rush.
Any Blight main arguing that someone that utilizes hug tech is a weaker Blight than someone that only uses linear bump plays is either being disingenuous with ulterior motives, or just has a pretty limited understanding of Blight. Yeah there are situations where players go for hugs and flicks that can allow survivors to spin or otherwise dodge them in which a pure bump logic Blight could have gotten a more or less guaranteed hit, but the better the Blight player, the more they will be aware of when to utilize which, and when to combine them for the best results. Besides, the mere possibility of utilizing hugs means survivors often find themselves in a dilemma of needing to play around both. So you preemptively DH or dodge anticipating a hug into flick, but the Blight simply bumps and you look stupid - or you hold W expecting the Blight to bump and needing to spend every millisecond you get making distance such that you can potentially get away from the next rush, but the Blight hugs the wall and comes around the corner swinging. Without hug tech being a thing, it's possible to anticipate much better what the Blight even can do, let alone potentially react in time to it.
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Um, you do realize sliding is an intentional mechanic on Blight, right? It’s literally why he has a collision detector attached to the camera angle so he can reduce it by looking down. The only unintended interaction is sliding by starting the Rush already hugging an object, thus "hug" tech. All other forms of sliding are intentional.
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This guy thinks Shred and MoonRush HugTech are the same thing lol
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Insanely detailed response, thanks for taking the time and effort
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Not really, I'm just saying if you hate getting hit at cars because the Killer slid on it, at least be consistent
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i think blights fine without hug tech
bump logic is immensely powerful, id say moreso than hug tech
its just hug tech has the benefit of making more generic tiles loopable using your power, and also helps getting around without using too many rushes (especially on indoor maps)
like id prefer hug tech to stay, but i dont think itll be too bad a nerf to blight if they do remove it (as long as he has working collision, and they dont bhvr it)
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If you can't recognize the difference between a Demo Shred and a Blight Rush, I dunno how to help you man.
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I missed the part where the bug was defended with that argument.
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