Let's Talk About NOED!
What this thread is gonna be about
So, I noticed a lot of fog travelers saying this perk is either a crutch or is completely fair as you can cleanse all 5 dull totems. I wanna shed my opinion on how we can make the perk feel strong to the killer but remaining fair for both sides.Cleansing 5 Dull Totems is NOT fair to a single survivor
Let's look at how NOED is a problem with some reasoning and justification. First to deactivate the perk, you'll need to cleanse all 5 dull totems which at first, it sounds completely fair until you're the only survivor doing all of the work. A single survivor can only do so much to the perk and if another survivor cleanses a dull totem, you'll be wasting more time finding the non existent 5th dull totem. Small Game will make you waste more time if this happens since you probably won't checks areas where you can see the 5th totem is destroyed. Overall, it's just arduous task to do something all by yourself and it feels rather harsh on the single survivor. So if we're gonna change NOED, we'll need to change it where it's fair for the Solo Q survivors.How can NOED be strong on both SWF and Solo Q survivors while remaining fair?
The perk has fluctuations in strength depending on whether or not you are facing SWF. When we change the perk, we also need to make sure its strength is consistent on both sides of the fence. Now that we know the flaws of NOED, let's apply our knowledge and make the perk fair for both survivor sides while remaining strong to the killer.No One Escapes Death:
(Notice: There's no "Hex" beside it)You're rage when your prey is on the verge to escaping fuels your thirst for a sacrifice. When the exit gates are powered, gain a 3/4/5% movement speed increase and the exit gates take 10% (2 seconds)/20% (4 seconds)/30% (6 seconds) longer to open. Survivors who didn't cleanse a dull or Hex totem will suffer from the exposed status effect for the reminder of the trial.
How is this version better?
This now makes every survivor waste some time cleansing a single totem instead of putting everything on a single survivor. You are now responsible for your own safety, not everyone else and if everyone does cleanse a totem, the killer still has a 5% movement speed increase and exit gate benefit.What do y'all think?
Comments
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I mentioned it elsewhere but i think it'd be interesting to remove Hex and Exposed and removes the Killers TR and red stain on top of the 5% speed increase.
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I think that would cause a lot of salt at the players in the endgame who didn't cleanse a totem.4
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This could work as well! It's just a single survivor can only do so much and it's just not fair to put everything on a single survivor. Of course SWF this isn't a issue but still, Solo Q survivors are suffering from this.ChesterTheMolester said:I mentioned it elsewhere but i think it'd be interesting to remove Hex and Exposed and removes the Killers TR and red stain.0 -
You only need to cleanse one totem to avoid the exposed status effect, not 5 unless you wanna screw over other survivors.The_Crusader said:I think that would cause a lot of salt at the players in the endgame who didn't cleanse a totem.0 -
Yeah I like this idea, make it a hex totem.ChesterTheMolester said:I mentioned it elsewhere but i think it'd be interesting to remove Hex and Exposed and removes the Killers TR and red stain on top of the 5% speed increase.
Anywho I have no problem with the current state of NOED. I play solo survivors and I cleanse a totem when I see it. Then there are times where I just ignore it. I deal with the results at the end of the game.
Now most people who complains about noed are the ones who taunt the killer at the end of the game.
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I hate to say it but as long as DS and Adrenaline are in the game NOED needs to stay.
You can't make NOED weaker when you go up against a team of 4 all carrying those.4 -
DS is getting reworked and Adrenaline is balanced since the survivor sacrificed a perk for the late game in my opinion.The_Crusader said:I hate to say it but as long as DS and Adrenaline are in the game NOED needs to stay.
You can't make NOED weaker when you go up against a team of 4 all carrying those.2 -
I don't feel like doing all 5 Totems on my own is a lot of work.
What do we do now?2 -
My opinion:
NOED is fine.
Survivor can counter this perk with and without an other perk.
But yes, maybe NOED need a rework.
But other perks,too.
Like DS, Adrenalin and Sprintboost.
DS is just unfair, because there is no counterplay without an other perk.
Adrenalin is the opposite to NOED.
And Adrenalin is little bit unfair, because the killer cant counter Adrenalin without an other perk.
But the survivor waste 1 perkslot, if they dont get all gens.
And Sprintboost is like DS.
Unfair, the killer cant counter it without an other perk.
And it needs no skill to use.1 -
@Boss said:
I don't feel like doing all 5 Totems on my own is a lot of work.
What do we do now?It is not doing all 5 totems on your own.
It is knowing not whether totems are being done or not. This is why @Nickenzie differentiated swf from solos.
As a solo survivor, I might be wasting my time since you cleared all of totems. On the other hand, If I don't look for them, there is a NOED potential.
I stated this in another thread, there are no other perks like NOED and DS that create great momentum or kill it. Both of them deserves a rework.
I am not actively wanting NOED and DS to be removed from the game. I just own it and keep going on my way. It is just that the game would be better without these two perks.
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Ehh no that isn't really what noed should become. Noed punishes survivors who rush gens and it's not survivors who are on a clock to win. Every survivor can take risk of their own free will to take time to cleanse totems or face consquences of taking risk by rushing gens or getting found be the killer. One of noed positives is survivors wasting time looking for dull totems.At least there is some counterplay not like all of meta survivor perks.
Your change would nerf noed even more then it curently is which isn't even to great to begin with. Either leave the current version or give us back the 2 min timer noed or even even better the permanent noed. Those were good times for endgame as killer.1 -
If it also removed the killer's TR at the end, that would be a solid change.0
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@Delfador said:
@Boss said:
I don't feel like doing all 5 Totems on my own is a lot of work.
What do we do now?It is not doing all 5 totems on your own.
It is knowing not whether totems are being done or not. This is why @Nickenzie differentiated swf from solos.
As a solo survivor, I might be wasting my time since you cleared all of totems. On the other hand, If I don't look for them, there is a NOED potential.
I stated this in another thread, there are no other perks like NOED and DS that create great momentum or kill it. Both of them deserves a rework.
I am not actively wanting NOED and DS to be removed from the game. I just own it and keep going on my way. It is just that the game would be better without these two perks.
Well it's not like Totems disappear.
If i see a cleansed Totem, i can add it to my mental counter.
Then just memorize the locations like i always do.0 -
I'm so tired of hearing the "survivors aren't racing against the clock" excuse.
yes, they are, the longer they delay accomplishing their true goal (gens), the longer the killer has to get hooks and/or kills which will put them at a disadvantage.
the change Nickenzie is recommending actually does sound pretty fair as it allows true counter play for solo survivors while still leaving the punishment there for survivors who are too lazy to be bothered with dull totems.
we need to balance SWF vs solo if we ever want true balance in this game and I feel as though this is a step in the right direction.1 -
@Nickenzie I liked your idea but I have a couple of questions.
If I cleansed 3 totems and one teammate left out, is there anything he can do?
Will the killer know which survivors have been affected by exposed status? Not knowing puts killer in a disadvantage.
If I haven't cleansed a totem but after getting exposed, I decided to cleanse one. What will be the outcome?One thing I love about this idea, just like blight event, survivors will try to find dull totems before they start to do generators which is very cool and time consuming.
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Delfador said:
@Nickenzie I liked your idea but I have a couple of questions.
If I cleansed 3 totems and one teammate left out, is there anything he can do?
Will the killer know which survivors have been affected by exposed status? Not knowing puts killer in a disadvantage.
If I haven't cleansed a totem but after getting exposed, I decided to cleanse one. What will be the outcome?One thing I love about this idea, just like blight event, survivors will try to find dull totems before they start to do generators which is very cool and time consuming.
If I cleansed 3 totems and one teammate left out, is there anything he can do?
No, you basically screwed over the survivor who can't cleanse a totem to save themselves. However, at least they will know they didn't and will need to be cautious at the end game.Will the killer know which survivors have been affected by exposed status? Not knowing puts killer in a disadvantage.
The killer will NOT know who is exposed but not knowing shouldn't hurt the killer too much anyways since the exposed survivors will likely be hiding. Exposed doesn't mean anything if the killer isn't there to make it mean something.If I haven't cleansed a totem but after getting exposed, I decided to cleanse one. What will be the outcome?
You're exposed for the "remainder of the trial" I think this is fair because you couldn't cleanse a totem. If you couldn't then at least you know that you're exposed and will need to be careful.
I'll make some changes to the perk if you have some good reasoning behind it.
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@Nickenzie said:
Delfador said:@Nickenzie I liked your idea but I have a couple of questions.
If I cleansed 3 totems and one teammate left out, is there anything he can do?
Will the killer know which survivors have been affected by exposed status? Not knowing puts killer in a disadvantage.
If I haven't cleansed a totem but after getting exposed, I decided to cleanse one. What will be the outcome?
One thing I love about this idea, just like blight event, survivors will try to find dull totems before they start to do generators which is very cool and time consuming.
If I cleansed 3 totems and one teammate left out, is there anything he can do?
No, you basically screwed over the survivor who can't cleanse a totem to save themselves. However, at least they will know they didn't and will need to be cautious at the end game. Will the killer know which survivors have been affected by exposed status? Not knowing puts killer in a disadvantage.
The killer will NOT know who is exposed but not knowing shouldn't hurt the killer too much anyways since the exposed survivors will likely be hiding. Exposed doesn't mean anything if the killer isn't there to make it mean something. If I haven't cleansed a totem but after getting exposed, I decided to cleanse one. What will be the outcome?
You're exposed for the "remainder of the trial" I think this is fair because you couldn't cleanse a totem. If you couldn't then at least you know that you're exposed and will need to be careful.
I'll make some changes to the perk if you have some good reasoning behind it.
No I think the change is cool, the only thing that we can add is increasing totems to 10 and make every survivor cleanse two totems instead of one. Would waste more time but not much. We can actually give more bloodpoints per totem to increase competition among survivors.
I don't think Devs are gonna change the perk though but you never know.
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Or just have some prerequisite for NOED proc that isn't just "all gens are done, here ya go!". Should be required to get 3 fresh hooks over the course of the trial BEFORE the gates power. Then you have to actually earn your one shot like every other thing that inflicts Exposed. You also can do this BS with Ruin/NOED combo where you just camp the first guy you catch and force a gen rush, then get a second with NOED.
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@Nickenzie
I like your idea, but fundamentally NOED shouldn't be changed. I think it's fine.I've always just suggested buffing Small Game to show you how many totems on the map are left as if it were stacks, but starting at 5 and decreasing everytime a totem is destroyed. (edit: I like the fact though you can get completely screwed over by NOED, or not even have it proc at all. It creates a good "table turn" environment.)
Nice read though, love your posts.
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Disagree, especially since a lot of SWF all run the perk. Thay's why you see one sat right on the last gen as you walk right up to them, because they know as soon it it pops they're all getting a health boost.Nickenzie said:
DS is getting reworked and Adrenaline is balanced since the survivor sacrificed a perk for the late game in my opinion.The_Crusader said:I hate to say it but as long as DS and Adrenaline are in the game NOED needs to stay.
You can't make NOED weaker when you go up against a team of 4 all carrying those.
Now tell me, other than perhaps say Billy if the entire team is alive and they all get an instaheal once the last gen pops how the hell am I meant to counter that?
What am I meant to do with Wraith? With 20 seconds to take out 4 people with full health?
At least if 2 were injured you could maybe get 2 hooks out of it.1 -
@The_Crusader said:
Nickenzie said:
The_Crusader said:I hate to say it but as long as DS and Adrenaline are in the game NOED needs to stay.
You can't make NOED weaker when you go up against a team of 4 all carrying those.
DS is getting reworked and Adrenaline is balanced since the survivor sacrificed a perk for the late game in my opinion.
Disagree, especially since a lot of SWF all run the perk. Thay's why you see one sat right on the last gen as you walk right up to them, because they know as soon it it pops they're all getting a health boost.
Now tell me, other than perhaps say Billy if the entire team is alive and they all get an instaheal once the last gen pops how the hell am I meant to counter that?
What am I meant to do with Wraith? With 20 seconds to take out 4 people with full health?
At least if 2 were injured you could maybe get 2 hooks out of it.
You counter it by not letting all 5 gens pop.
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Ans they counter NOED by cleansing all 5 totemsBrady said:@The_Crusader said:
Nickenzie said:
The_Crusader said:I hate to say it but as long as DS and Adrenaline are in the game NOED needs to stay.
You can't make NOED weaker when you go up against a team of 4 all carrying those.
DS is getting reworked and Adrenaline is balanced since the survivor sacrificed a perk for the late game in my opinion.
Disagree, especially since a lot of SWF all run the perk. Thay's why you see one sat right on the last gen as you walk right up to them, because they know as soon it it pops they're all getting a health boost.
Now tell me, other than perhaps say Billy if the entire team is alive and they all get an instaheal once the last gen pops how the hell am I meant to counter that?
What am I meant to do with Wraith? With 20 seconds to take out 4 people with full health?
At least if 2 were injured you could maybe get 2 hooks out of it.
You counter it by not letting all 5 gens pop.
Good balance.1 -
If you haven't killed at least 1-2 survivors before the 5th generator pops then you aren't doing something right. I never had a problem with Adrenaline since usually I don't injure every survivor I see because Adrenaline can undo that.The_Crusader said:
Disagree, especially since a lot of SWF all run the perk. Thay's why you see one sat right on the last gen as you walk right up to them, because they know as soon it it pops they're all getting a health boost.Nickenzie said:
DS is getting reworked and Adrenaline is balanced since the survivor sacrificed a perk for the late game in my opinion.The_Crusader said:I hate to say it but as long as DS and Adrenaline are in the game NOED needs to stay.
You can't make NOED weaker when you go up against a team of 4 all carrying those.
Now tell me, other than perhaps say Billy if the entire team is alive and they all get an instaheal once the last gen pops how the hell am I meant to counter that?
What am I meant to do with Wraith? With 20 seconds to take out 4 people with full health?
At least if 2 were injured you could maybe get 2 hooks out of it.2 -
Adrenaline is a crutch and a free escape sometimes. I've had people slugged who have got back up and ran. Annoying when the whole team is running it too.
If I get a lobby full of megs then I expect a lot of adrenalines and bring NOED.
Lets just say from past experiences I'm glad I did. Had games that were maybe a 2k go to a 0k due to adrenaline but then back up to a 3k thanks to NOED.0 -
@Iceman said:
ChesterTheMolester said:I mentioned it elsewhere but i think it'd be interesting to remove Hex and Exposed and removes the Killers TR and red stain on top of the 5% speed increase.
Yeah I like this idea, make it a hex totem.
Anywho I have no problem with the current state of NOED. I play solo survivors and I cleanse a totem when I see it. Then there are times where I just ignore it. I deal with the results at the end of the game.
Now most people who complains about noed are the ones who taunt the killer at the end of the game.
This is mostly what I see in game. There are certain behaviors that seem to clump together....the teabagging/taunting and the post game salt.
NOED has a pretty fair tradeoff as is and is very risky for any sort of payout. A lot of good killers don't take it because they don't ever get to endgame.
If a killer uses it as a crutch, he is using it wrong.
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Your idea seems good, however I think I see some problems.
1. It doesn’t slow the game down as much. Currently, the fear of NOED slows the game down because Survivors have to search for and destroy all five totems. With your version, the Survivors only have to destroy four totems (one per Survivor) to cancel out the Exposed effect. They can just find one totem, destroy it, and get back to doing gens.
2. Survivors will try to cleanse multiple totems with the purpose of ######### over the other Survivors. I was thinking about preventing Survivors from destroying more than one totem when the Killer has NOED (the fifth totem could be cleansed by anyone, meaning that one Survivor could destroy two totems), but this would make it harder for new players. If they don’t find Ruin, Huntress Lullaby, or Devour Hope before cleansing a dull totem, they could be in for a very difficult game. It could also mess with Haunted Grounds because that perk requires you to cleanse the hex totem. Maybe Haunted Grounds would be the exception to the rule?0 -
@Nickenzie I disagree with the idea and I’ll explain why...
This would be a nerf to NOED believe it or not because 4 survivors would immediately cleanse a totem at the start and get the last one when they saw it and NOED wouldn’t happen anymore if it was as simple as just getting one totem to save yourselfya know?
I would like like to see NOED have a Hope style effect with a timer on exposure and speed and have the totem be a package with it and if you don’t get the totem or leave before the timer is out on the effect then you can be mori’d
Also while we’re at it if there’s only one survivor left and you down them you should be able to mori because the hook animation is boring at the endgame and it gives it a better feel0 -
I love the idea, my dream update is where NOED AND DS get a nerf they deserve. That and one where there is no toxicity, but that is impossible to update a game to2
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Adrenaline a crutch? No way dude you’re smoking some heavy stuff with that comment because it only goes into effect after all the gens are done and if you’ve got multiple people still going when they’ve wasted a perk slot all game then you’ve done something very wrong, if you’re not killing survivors off as the game progresses and gens are done there’s a problem with your strategy. Noed isn’t a crutch either before I get jumped on about that, 5 totems and it’s gone.....The_Crusader said:Adrenaline is a crutch and a free escape sometimes. I've had people slugged who have got back up and ran. Annoying when the whole team is running it too.
If I get a lobby full of megs then I expect a lot of adrenalines and bring NOED.
Lets just say from past experiences I'm glad I did. Had games that were maybe a 2k go to a 0k due to adrenaline but then back up to a 3k thanks to NOED.1 -
Just gitgud tbh
I stopped using noed ages ago because people cleanse totems or find it right after it activates
The only one who actually have a problem with noed are usually newer players as far as Ive noticed. Can we just stop to ask reworks or nerf to a REMOVABLE perk? Because, you know, these can be removed as well as ruin etc unlike ANY survivor perk
The only time I used it recently (2months ago) noed to train with the nurse, 8/10 of matches didn't even activated at red ranks and as survivor I find more destroyed totems than fresh ones so.. I guess there isn't only a person who cleanse them especially with the awful spawns these things have0 -
Ruin only takes one totems to cleanse while NOED takes 5 dull totems to cleanse. You're practically bringing 5 hex perks when you use NOED since each totem contributes to the perk. Now, is it fair for one survivor to cleanse the perk alone or is it fair for 4 survivors to cleanse the perk? My rework makes it where all of the survivors will need to contribute, not one doing all the work.Malakir said:Just gitgud tbh
I stopped using noed ages ago because people cleanse totems or find it right after it activates
The only one who actually have a problem with noed are usually newer players as far as Ive noticed. Can we just stop to ask reworks or nerf to a REMOVABLE perk? Because, you know, these can be removed as well as ruin etc unlike ANY survivor perk
The only time I used it recently (2months ago) noed to train with the nurse, 8/10 of matches didn't even activated at red ranks and as survivor I find more destroyed totems than fresh ones so.. I guess there isn't only a person who cleanse them especially with the awful spawns these things have0 -
I gave my reason for disagreeing earlier in the thread and I’ll throw one more out there, you clearly said if you do one totem you’re safe...Nickenzie said:
Ruin only takes one totems to cleanse while NOED takes 5 dull totems to cleanse. You're practically bringing 5 hex perks when you use NOED since each totem contributes to the perk. Now, is it fair for one survivor to cleanse the perk alone or is it fair for 4 survivors to cleanse the perk? My rework makes it where all of the survivors will need to contribute, not one doing all the work.Malakir said:Just gitgud tbh
I stopped using noed ages ago because people cleanse totems or find it right after it activates
The only one who actually have a problem with noed are usually newer players as far as Ive noticed. Can we just stop to ask reworks or nerf to a REMOVABLE perk? Because, you know, these can be removed as well as ruin etc unlike ANY survivor perk
The only time I used it recently (2months ago) noed to train with the nurse, 8/10 of matches didn't even activated at red ranks and as survivor I find more destroyed totems than fresh ones so.. I guess there isn't only a person who cleanse them especially with the awful spawns these things have
But if all four survivors do one totem and there is still one left for noed to activate who gets exposed? It’s a nice thought for solo survivors but it would be a major nerf to NOED if you only needed one totem to know you were good , noed would be gone every match before the second gen was popped. I think it’s good training for survivors because they should be doing that anyway but it’s too much and kinda unbalanced
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Yeah and noNickenzie said:
Ruin only takes one totems to cleanse while NOED takes 5 dull totems to cleanse. You're practically bringing 5 hex perks when you use NOED since each totem contributes to the perk. Now, is it fair for one survivor to cleanse the perk alone or is it fair for 4 survivors to cleanse the perk? My rework makes it where all of the survivors will need to contribute, not one doing all the work.Malakir said:Just gitgud tbh
I stopped using noed ages ago because people cleanse totems or find it right after it activates
The only one who actually have a problem with noed are usually newer players as far as Ive noticed. Can we just stop to ask reworks or nerf to a REMOVABLE perk? Because, you know, these can be removed as well as ruin etc unlike ANY survivor perk
The only time I used it recently (2months ago) noed to train with the nurse, 8/10 of matches didn't even activated at red ranks and as survivor I find more destroyed totems than fresh ones so.. I guess there isn't only a person who cleanse them especially with the awful spawns these things have
I've seen more often than not dull totems destroyed before I was able to cleanse it myself
That you think noed = 5 hex is cute, especially when you wanna just nerf a perk, wait, A REMOVABLE perk out of lazyness or because can't hide before opening the gates
So you ask is it fair for one survivor have to cleanse 4/5 totems alone. I'll say, no one asked that but I can re state that in the other way around .is it fair for a 4v1 game give more power to the individual in the numerous role?
Noed isn't an issue at all and recently got even nerfed. I stopped to use any hex ages ago because no matter what hex you bring it won't last with the awful totem spawns0 -
Point 1) Adrenaline only activates once all gens are doneOrionsFury4789 said:
Adrenaline a crutch? No way dude you’re smoking some heavy stuff with that comment because it only goes into effect after all the gens are done and if you’ve got multiple people still going when they’ve wasted a perk slot all game then you’ve done something very wrong, if you’re not killing survivors off as the game progresses and gens are done there’s a problem with your strategy. Noed isn’t a crutch either before I get jumped on about that, 5 totems and it’s gone.....The_Crusader said:Adrenaline is a crutch and a free escape sometimes. I've had people slugged who have got back up and ran. Annoying when the whole team is running it too.
If I get a lobby full of megs then I expect a lot of adrenalines and bring NOED.
Lets just say from past experiences I'm glad I did. Had games that were maybe a 2k go to a 0k due to adrenaline but then back up to a 3k thanks to NOED.
Answer) So does NOED. Next.
Point 2) They've wasted a perk slot all game
Answer) So has the killer with NOED. Next
Point 3) If you're not killing off survivors as the game progresses theres soemthing wrong with your strategy
Answer) If you're not cleansing totems as the game progresses theres something wrong with your strategy.
End of the day if survivor are all allowed an instaheal at end game then I want to balance it with an instadown at end game.
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@Nickenzie said:
What this thread is gonna be aboutSo, I noticed a lot of fog travelers saying this perk is either a crutch or is completely fair as you can cleanse all 5 dull totems. I wanna shed my opinion on how we can make the perk feel strong to the killer but remaining fair for both sides. Cleansing 5 Dull Totems is NOT fair to a single survivor
Let's look at how NOED is a problem with some reasoning and justification. First to deactivate the perk, you'll need to cleanse all 5 dull totems which at first, it sounds completely fair until you're the only survivor doing all of the work. A single survivor can only do so much to the perk and if another survivor cleanses a dull totem, you'll be wasting more time finding the non existent 5th dull totem. Small Game will make you waste more time if this happens since you probably won't checks areas where you can see the 5th totem is destroyed. Overall, it's just arduous task to do something all by yourself and it feels rather harsh on the single survivor. So if we're gonna change NOED, we'll need to change it where it's fair for the Solo Q survivors. How can NOED be strong on both SWF and Solo Q survivors while remaining fair?
The perk has fluctuations in strength depending on whether or not you are facing SWF. When we change the perk, we also need to make sure its strength is consistent on both sides of the fence. Now that we know the flaws of NOED, let's apply our knowledge and make the perk fair for both survivor sides while remaining strong to the killer. No One Escapes Death:
(Notice: There's no "Hex" beside it)
You're rage when your prey is on the verge to escaping fuels your thirst for a sacrifice. When the exit gates are powered, gain a 3/4/5% movement speed increase and the exit gates take 10% (2 seconds)/20% (4 seconds)/30% (6 seconds) longer to open. Survivors who didn't cleanse a dull or Hex totem will suffer from the exposed status effect for the reminder of the trial. How is this version better?This now makes every survivor waste some time cleansing a single totem instead of putting everything on a single survivor. You are now responsible for your own safety, not everyone else and if everyone does cleanse a totem, the killer still has a 5% movement speed increase and exit gate benefit.
What do y'all think?
single survivor? even if i don't play swf random survivors in my team usually destroy them very fast.
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@The_Crusader said:
Adrenaline is a crutch and a free escape sometimes. I've had people slugged who have got back up and ran. Annoying when the whole team is running it too.If I get a lobby full of megs then I expect a lot of adrenalines and bring NOED.
Lets just say from past experiences I'm glad I did. Had games that were maybe a 2k go to a 0k due to adrenaline but then back up to a 3k thanks to NOED.
none of perks is a crutch otherwise they would've been nerfed or deleted from the game. i use noed, ds and adre.
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Ok, this is nice for the solo survivors but I don't see how this would be good and "fair" for killers.
In the grand scheme of things about 70% of matches have some form of SWF. I don't think it's fair to always be nerfing killers at the expense of 30% of survivors in matches.
This is a rant for a different time but any buff given to solo survivors is also a buff for SWF. I get that people want to bring solo survivors up to the level of SWF but I don't see why. SWF are objectively more toxic than solo survivors, have a higher survival rate and are fundamentally broken.
OP, the chance that 1 person would have to break 5 totems is extremely rare. If you are the only survivor left, chances are, the hatch is open. If the hatch isn't open, that means that the killer killed 3 people before 2 gens were done. At that point, the killer deserves his win.
It also stands that you and 3 other survivors don't have to break 5 totems. If the perk activates, then you potentially only have to break 1 and that 1 totem glows like a beacon.
I'm sorry but NOED is fine the way it is.1 -
Yeah about that....godren said:@The_Crusader said:
Adrenaline is a crutch and a free escape sometimes. I've had people slugged who have got back up and ran. Annoying when the whole team is running it too.If I get a lobby full of megs then I expect a lot of adrenalines and bring NOED.
Lets just say from past experiences I'm glad I did. Had games that were maybe a 2k go to a 0k due to adrenaline but then back up to a 3k thanks to NOED.
none of perks is a crutch otherwise they would've been nerfed or deleted from the game. i use noed, ds and adre.
The developers don't want true balance because they want the game to retain that party feel. Some perks literly are crutches so bad players can do good too.0 -
Lol Said that both perks were not a crutch I agree with all of what you said I don’t know why you’re coming off like I said noed was a crutch it’s easy to counter noed and if you don’t do the totems then in turn Noed counters your adrenaline, seems like a fair trade to meThe_Crusader said:
Point 1) Adrenaline only activates once all gens are doneOrionsFury4789 said:
Adrenaline a crutch? No way dude you’re smoking some heavy stuff with that comment because it only goes into effect after all the gens are done and if you’ve got multiple people still going when they’ve wasted a perk slot all game then you’ve done something very wrong, if you’re not killing survivors off as the game progresses and gens are done there’s a problem with your strategy. Noed isn’t a crutch either before I get jumped on about that, 5 totems and it’s gone.....The_Crusader said:Adrenaline is a crutch and a free escape sometimes. I've had people slugged who have got back up and ran. Annoying when the whole team is running it too.
If I get a lobby full of megs then I expect a lot of adrenalines and bring NOED.
Lets just say from past experiences I'm glad I did. Had games that were maybe a 2k go to a 0k due to adrenaline but then back up to a 3k thanks to NOED.
Answer) So does NOED. Next.
Point 2) They've wasted a perk slot all game
Answer) So has the killer with NOED. Next
Point 3) If you're not killing off survivors as the game progresses theres soemthing wrong with your strategy
Answer) If you're not cleansing totems as the game progresses theres something wrong with your strategy.
End of the day if survivor are all allowed an instaheal at end game then I want to balance it with an instadown at end game.0 -
DS, Adrenaline, NOED, I think all 3 should disappear. They all unbalance the game.OrionsFury4789 said:
Lol Said that both perks were not a crutch I agree with all of what you said I don’t know why you’re coming off like I said noed was a crutch it’s easy to counter noed and if you don’t do the totems then in turn Noed counters your adrenaline, seems like a fair trade to meThe_Crusader said:
Point 1) Adrenaline only activates once all gens are doneOrionsFury4789 said:
Adrenaline a crutch? No way dude you’re smoking some heavy stuff with that comment because it only goes into effect after all the gens are done and if you’ve got multiple people still going when they’ve wasted a perk slot all game then you’ve done something very wrong, if you’re not killing survivors off as the game progresses and gens are done there’s a problem with your strategy. Noed isn’t a crutch either before I get jumped on about that, 5 totems and it’s gone.....The_Crusader said:Adrenaline is a crutch and a free escape sometimes. I've had people slugged who have got back up and ran. Annoying when the whole team is running it too.
If I get a lobby full of megs then I expect a lot of adrenalines and bring NOED.
Lets just say from past experiences I'm glad I did. Had games that were maybe a 2k go to a 0k due to adrenaline but then back up to a 3k thanks to NOED.
Answer) So does NOED. Next.
Point 2) They've wasted a perk slot all game
Answer) So has the killer with NOED. Next
Point 3) If you're not killing off survivors as the game progresses theres soemthing wrong with your strategy
Answer) If you're not cleansing totems as the game progresses theres something wrong with your strategy.
End of the day if survivor are all allowed an instaheal at end game then I want to balance it with an instadown at end game.0 -
@The_Crusader I still don’t think adrenaline is op but in my opinion it just makes the game more interesting with DS and NOED. I use adrenaline on a few of my survivors but I rarely use DS and I’m talking like being able to count on one hand how many time in a year I’ve used it. On my killers depending on which one I’m running and my skill level with that killer I may run NOED because I know it could get to that point but as a spirit main I don’t use NOED because there isn’t a need for it, I get 3 to 4K every match with the spirit.0
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Do you find Noed feels less rewarding? Thats why I dont use it. It feels more fun winning throughout the game than relying on one extremely powerful end game perk.OrionsFury4789 said:@The_Crusader I still don’t think adrenaline is op but in my opinion it just makes the game more interesting with DS and NOED. I use adrenaline on a few of my survivors but I rarely use DS and I’m talking like being able to count on one hand how many time in a year I’ve used it. On my killers depending on which one I’m running and my skill level with that killer I may run NOED because I know it could get to that point but as a spirit main I don’t use NOED because there isn’t a need for it, I get 3 to 4K every match with the spirit.
Also adrenaline and DS, to the survivor using them they dont feel powerful I agree. But as a killer when you get a game full of them both you can feel how powerful they are when stacked lol its a pain in the backside.0 -
Yea I hate using NOED on the killers I do use it on because by that point I’m already upset it got to that point but to me that’s just showing that it’s one of those killers I need to improve my skill level on to the same level as my clown, spirit, Myers or huntress where I never use itThe_Crusader said:
Do you find Noed feels less rewarding? Thats why I dont use it. It feels more fun winning throughout the game than relying on one extremely powerful end game perk.OrionsFury4789 said:@The_Crusader I still don’t think adrenaline is op but in my opinion it just makes the game more interesting with DS and NOED. I use adrenaline on a few of my survivors but I rarely use DS and I’m talking like being able to count on one hand how many time in a year I’ve used it. On my killers depending on which one I’m running and my skill level with that killer I may run NOED because I know it could get to that point but as a spirit main I don’t use NOED because there isn’t a need for it, I get 3 to 4K every match with the spirit.
Also adrenaline and DS, to the survivor using them they dont feel powerful I agree. But as a killer when you get a game full of them both you can feel how powerful they are when stacked lol its a pain in the backside.1 -
The problem with "every survivor needs to cleanse a totem" is that every survivor doesn't cleanse a totem. I can cleanse 4 dull totems and still have NOED take effect because my other teammates were too lazy. Consequently, it doesn't feel good when I get sacrificed for doing my absolute best and my teammates run free. You see where I'm coming from? I'll like to mention that you don't get much emblem points for running around hitting totems so I usually safety pip since I'm not doing generators or getting unhooks until after I get every dull totem.OrionsFury4789 said:
I gave my reason for disagreeing earlier in the thread and I’ll throw one more out there, you clearly said if you do one totem you’re safe...Nickenzie said:
Ruin only takes one totems to cleanse while NOED takes 5 dull totems to cleanse. You're practically bringing 5 hex perks when you use NOED since each totem contributes to the perk. Now, is it fair for one survivor to cleanse the perk alone or is it fair for 4 survivors to cleanse the perk? My rework makes it where all of the survivors will need to contribute, not one doing all the work.Malakir said:Just gitgud tbh
I stopped using noed ages ago because people cleanse totems or find it right after it activates
The only one who actually have a problem with noed are usually newer players as far as Ive noticed. Can we just stop to ask reworks or nerf to a REMOVABLE perk? Because, you know, these can be removed as well as ruin etc unlike ANY survivor perk
The only time I used it recently (2months ago) noed to train with the nurse, 8/10 of matches didn't even activated at red ranks and as survivor I find more destroyed totems than fresh ones so.. I guess there isn't only a person who cleanse them especially with the awful spawns these things have
But if all four survivors do one totem and there is still one left for noed to activate who gets exposed? It’s a nice thought for solo survivors but it would be a major nerf to NOED if you only needed one totem to know you were good , noed would be gone every match before the second gen was popped. I think it’s good training for survivors because they should be doing that anyway but it’s too much and kinda unbalanced1 -
Ruin only takes one totems to cleanse while NOED takes 5 dull totems to cleanse.
There is a somewhat unfair comparison here:
NOED as a HEX is weaker than any other hex
Hex Perk that has a delayed activation:
Normal way: When a Hex Perk is active, there'll be 1 Burning Hex Totem that needs to be cleansed to disable it.
Extra way: Cleanse all dull totems to prevent the effect from ever becoming active.Normal Hex Perk
Normal way: When a Hex Perk is active, there'll be 1 Burning Hex Totem that needs to be cleansed to disable it.NOED falls in the delayed activation category, meaning that you just disable it's effect like normal, but you can also prevent it's effect being active for even a single second, through the Extra way!
To add to that, the Normal way in delayed activations isn't the same either. A Hex Perk that spawns from the start has the advantage of you not knowing where the totem spots are. The Normal way for delayed Hex Totems can have the survivors know EVERY POSSIBLE SPAWN-LOCATION for the hex totem.
Of course with NOED we are lucky that the Perk's effect makes up for this significant weakness..
What is our problem then?
Our problem comes from, as you mentioned, predominantly solo survivors not being able to deal with NOED, because they cannot communicate the totem spots.
So before I'd continue this analysis;
Would you consider the current NOED balanced for Solo's if all dull totems and hex totems found were shared as a permanent aura between all survivors?
(For this example, just completely do away with the thought of whether it would be fun, whether it makes sense, but purely view it balance-wise. With the . underlying question; would this solve it, according to you? And if yes, then we've found the origin of the problem.)
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Yeah.OrionsFury4789 said:
Yea I hate using NOED on the killers I do use it on because by that point I’m already upset it got to that point but to me that’s just showing that it’s one of those killers I need to improve my skill level on to the same level as my clown, spirit, Myers or huntress where I never use itThe_Crusader said:
Do you find Noed feels less rewarding? Thats why I dont use it. It feels more fun winning throughout the game than relying on one extremely powerful end game perk.OrionsFury4789 said:@The_Crusader I still don’t think adrenaline is op but in my opinion it just makes the game more interesting with DS and NOED. I use adrenaline on a few of my survivors but I rarely use DS and I’m talking like being able to count on one hand how many time in a year I’ve used it. On my killers depending on which one I’m running and my skill level with that killer I may run NOED because I know it could get to that point but as a spirit main I don’t use NOED because there isn’t a need for it, I get 3 to 4K every match with the spirit.
Also adrenaline and DS, to the survivor using them they dont feel powerful I agree. But as a killer when you get a game full of them both you can feel how powerful they are when stacked lol its a pain in the backside.
But then its like I take Noed on some killers becauze its one of those perks that unlocks early and is always good.
Id love to take spirit fury and enduring on pig but it takes forever to unlock them.
So i do not as good as i could because my perks are weak which means noed saves the day, but then if I had other perks i wouldnt take noed and id do better anyway with a better build.0 -
I totally get where you’re coming from and there should be more points and notice to cleansing totems , however I think of the patch notes got updated today and survivors knew one totem would save them it would be RIP noedNickenzie said:
The problem with "every survivor needs to cleanse a totem" is that every survivor doesn't cleanse a totem. I can cleanse 4 dull totems and still have NOED take effect because my other teammates were too lazy. Consequently, it doesn't feel good when I get sacrificed for doing my absolute best and my teammates run free. You see where I'm coming from? I'll like to mention that you don't get much emblem points for running around hitting totems so I usually safety pip since I'm not doing generators or getting unhooks until after I get every dull totem.OrionsFury4789 said:
I gave my reason for disagreeing earlier in the thread and I’ll throw one more out there, you clearly said if you do one totem you’re safe...Nickenzie said:
Ruin only takes one totems to cleanse while NOED takes 5 dull totems to cleanse. You're practically bringing 5 hex perks when you use NOED since each totem contributes to the perk. Now, is it fair for one survivor to cleanse the perk alone or is it fair for 4 survivors to cleanse the perk? My rework makes it where all of the survivors will need to contribute, not one doing all the work.Malakir said:Just gitgud tbh
I stopped using noed ages ago because people cleanse totems or find it right after it activates
The only one who actually have a problem with noed are usually newer players as far as Ive noticed. Can we just stop to ask reworks or nerf to a REMOVABLE perk? Because, you know, these can be removed as well as ruin etc unlike ANY survivor perk
The only time I used it recently (2months ago) noed to train with the nurse, 8/10 of matches didn't even activated at red ranks and as survivor I find more destroyed totems than fresh ones so.. I guess there isn't only a person who cleanse them especially with the awful spawns these things have
But if all four survivors do one totem and there is still one left for noed to activate who gets exposed? It’s a nice thought for solo survivors but it would be a major nerf to NOED if you only needed one totem to know you were good , noed would be gone every match before the second gen was popped. I think it’s good training for survivors because they should be doing that anyway but it’s too much and kinda unbalanced0 -
Perhaps if there was emblem points when you cleanse a totem then it would be worth it. However, making a totem worth 10% in the Lightbringer category will make the difference. It's either I safety pip because I'm not doing anything but totems or do gens and hook rescues with the NOED risk to hopefully pip.OrionsFury4789 said:
I totally get where you’re coming from and there should be more points and notice to cleansing totems , however I think of the patch notes got updated today and survivors knew one totem would save them it would be RIP noedNickenzie said:
The problem with "every survivor needs to cleanse a totem" is that every survivor doesn't cleanse a totem. I can cleanse 4 dull totems and still have NOED take effect because my other teammates were too lazy. Consequently, it doesn't feel good when I get sacrificed for doing my absolute best and my teammates run free. You see where I'm coming from? I'll like to mention that you don't get much emblem points for running around hitting totems so I usually safety pip since I'm not doing generators or getting unhooks until after I get every dull totem.OrionsFury4789 said:
I gave my reason for disagreeing earlier in the thread and I’ll throw one more out there, you clearly said if you do one totem you’re safe...Nickenzie said:
Ruin only takes one totems to cleanse while NOED takes 5 dull totems to cleanse. You're practically bringing 5 hex perks when you use NOED since each totem contributes to the perk. Now, is it fair for one survivor to cleanse the perk alone or is it fair for 4 survivors to cleanse the perk? My rework makes it where all of the survivors will need to contribute, not one doing all the work.Malakir said:Just gitgud tbh
I stopped using noed ages ago because people cleanse totems or find it right after it activates
The only one who actually have a problem with noed are usually newer players as far as Ive noticed. Can we just stop to ask reworks or nerf to a REMOVABLE perk? Because, you know, these can be removed as well as ruin etc unlike ANY survivor perk
The only time I used it recently (2months ago) noed to train with the nurse, 8/10 of matches didn't even activated at red ranks and as survivor I find more destroyed totems than fresh ones so.. I guess there isn't only a person who cleanse them especially with the awful spawns these things have
But if all four survivors do one totem and there is still one left for noed to activate who gets exposed? It’s a nice thought for solo survivors but it would be a major nerf to NOED if you only needed one totem to know you were good , noed would be gone every match before the second gen was popped. I think it’s good training for survivors because they should be doing that anyway but it’s too much and kinda unbalanced0 -
for the rest of the trial part sounds a little too strong but I dont want to feel the hatred from that
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