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Why Hag is 4.4 and Artist a 4.6 speed killer?
As a main killer I question myself this everyday
I really avoid to play with the Artist because most of the games I got 4k so easily or people just dc when I down them with crows on the first chase, it doesnt make any sense Artist be a 4.6 tbh comparing that Hag is a 4.4 with similiar power to counter loops, her crows are very opressive if used in the right way to counter windows/pallets
Comments
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Because legs
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Because when it comes to game balance, making a killer 4.6 is essentially shorthand for "even if they don't use their power they can still chase normally" which is way better for newer players. Slower killers are notoriously punishing if you can't use their power not even perfectly, competently.
The last 4.4 killer was Trickster, who according to data has the 2nd lowest killrate overall. I imagine this is a big factor in why BHVR has steered from 4.4 killers for now
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Because one can teleport the other one cant
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They don't want all killers to be equally good? Artist is probably supposed to be a lot better than Hag.
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Hag isn't a chaser killer. She's a territorial killer. She makes her web and guards it.
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I agree with you before boon totens existed
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Well boons hurt many killers not just Hag.
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Iirc, Artist was a 4.4 killer at one point. Can't be too sure cuz there was also a fake leak that put her as 4.4.
Anyhow, Artist has to hit you twice through walls, adding more complexity to get value out of her power.
Hag is a territorial killer that can straight up teleport and has 10 traps. A good Hag is pretty much unstoppable if she sets up; make her 4.6, and I shudder at the mental images.
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Hag can put down traps outside of chase and teleport to them to defend objectives and such. Artist's crows only live for a few seconds where they expire if not used.
Not to mention that people really overexaggerate how good her Artist's anti-loop is. Yes you can put them at pallets and vaults and if the survivor is still running that tile you can often get a free hit with them. But most good survivors will take advantage of the slowdown you suffer placing a crow to run to another tile.
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Artist chases, Hag doesn't
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Movement speed isn't based on how 'good' their power is in a chase or a loop, it's based on their mobility and map presence.
Hag can teleport.
Spirit can phase.
Huntress can hit from range.
Artist, while her power has range, cannot reliably injure at range. She's in the same ballpark as Pyramid Head.
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That makes no sense. Why would they show such blatant favourism?
Besides, I’d argue that a good Hag is much, much more oppressive than Artist.
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Circle of Healing didn't change Hag's strategy.
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Artist is fine at 4.6 she's fun to play, you should complain about Blight even if they nerf him tomorrow at 4,4ms he's still S tier easily
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Hag and artist aren't comperable at all though,,hag wants to setup a certain area and play around it,,artist is jsut a boring anti loop killer ,,that being said you can play chase hag with her iri addon i think ?
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hag's mobility is among worst in the game though. she is 110% m/s and she spends 2 seconds every time to place traps. Imagine pausing with other killers for 2 seconds randomly every single chase. Hag's traversal and map movement is unlike any other killer because most killers usually go from point A to point B in straight lines and then you have that zig zag's her pathing to place traps for what most people call her web.
that's why almost all hag are forced to camp 1 area because...... they literally have no movement speed and spend 1/4 of the game walking around placing traps. Factor in that her teleportation has limited range. that definitely looks like recipe for killer go for 12 hooks. /s
Trapper has same problem and he has 2nd worst map pressure in the game after hag. He has to spend detours picking-up traps then he has to spend 2.5 second setting up traps which are super easy to spot and disarm. You can barely use them in the chase. Even factoring in that he moves at 115% and that his traps instant down, He's still ineffective at the chase in retrospect. Wow.... I wonder why trapper just camp basement and play territorial. Surely his kit is made for 12 hook just like hag /s.
if you look at modern killers like freddy, artist, pyramid head, even demo. they all move at 115% and can use their abilities in chase. Demo has mobility through portals, move at 115% and has chasing ability. pyramid head has trails that force survivor go into them and has ranged ability. freddy has snare traps and tp mobility. Artist has bird-traps that can be fired as projectile. shows how little difference 5% movement speed does in the game and how much killer-power strength+perk synergy matters over anything else.
I would say killer that have movement speed penalties have movement speed penalties because their counter-play in the chase is influenced by distance between survivor and killer. For example, juking ranged projectiles at further distances is easier then pointblank and further distance means that Line of sight counter-play is more prominent hence why huntress/trickster/deathslinger are all 110% m/s. Back when spirit was strong, She was 110% because being slower meant that she needed to use her yamako ability to catch-up the survivor while holding-w and it gave sense of time-pressure for spirit to track the survivor while survivor mask their movement. well now a days, you can just loop her ability. Nurse's entire counter is based off hold-w and travel distance on blinks so this needs no introduction to why she moves at 96%.
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Because artist is awesome and hag is not. I don't forget those basement matches so easily. Hag should be 4.2. Not for any balance reasons, just as punishment.
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she takes ages to down anyone with her power, first you have to hit a crow then wait for the cooldown then use 2-3 other crows to hit and if you miss you get a lengthy cooldown and if you hit you have to do the process all over again for a down especially when survivors can repel crows by jumping in a locker.
her power is not reliable and forgiving as that of a huntress and it feels like you have to run Festering Carrion and thick tar on her everygame to get a chance. if they somehow make you able to use her crows often with less cooldown i can see her being 4.4 but in her current state she already is hurt by w holding a lot.
Post edited by DEMONANCE on0 -
Hag gets mobility, instant injure on hit after a teleport and can basically chain hits instantly between teleport, very good at defense once setup.
Artist has to setup every loop each time a survivor is near it, not every hit is an injure and has to hit multiple times. Artist also has no mobility.
Both killers are decent, but both play very differently. Hag is trap and protect while artist is more chase so that's why.
Only my opinion though, I rather the artist playstyle. Hags abit campy imo and I dont like it
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Shift W would be too strong against Artist if she was 4.4
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You're better off comparing Artist to the other projectile killers instead of Hag imo
Huntress, Trickster and Deathslinger all have kits that are similar to Artist in one way or another but they have way more weaknesses and less map presence than she does. Those 3 are 110 while she's 115.
Someone made the argument earlier in the thread "she has to hit you twice with her power to damage" but that's only if you're playing purely for bird injuries/downs. Her power is extremely potent at zoning and shutting down tiles while having all the strengths of a 115% killer. I've seen many artists land a bird hit then instantly m1 a survivor very similiar to what a huntress can do.
(To clarify i'm not saying she should be 110, but rather arguing that she can do what a lot of other killers can only do while also maintaining none of their weaknesses)
The only other Killer you could compare Artist to would probably be Pyramid Head, if only for the fact they have a medium ranged projectile that ignores walls but the similarities end there imo.
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With her potential, I don't think I'd be against a test for a slower Artist.
I can't really say if it's actually a good idea.
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Honestly, considering just how versatile Artist's kit actually is (free cross map tracking, relatively easy injures and downs, and free zoning) i would like to see a 4.4 Artist test too
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What about a Wesker treatment?
As in 115 but 40m TR which gives survs more reaction time/earlier warnings to leave an area.
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That would be interesting as well but i don't think it would make all that much of a difference
even with the larger TR, a 4.6 killer with a power that gives you free zoning is still a 4.6 killer with a power that gives you free zoning
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Yeah true, It wouldn't fix the oppressiveness in chase
I'm surprised BHVR hasn't tweaked Artist a bit yet, she's been out for a long time.
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Why we keep saying "boons"? There is only one boon that is problematic. Shadow Step is fine, Dark Theory is Fine, Exponential is fine, onyl CoH is a badly design perk
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Because Hag can instantly teleport and she is a defense killer, so guarding a part of the map is essential for her. She can also instantly injure a s
Artist is basically a M1 killer and requires survivors to be very close to her crows (when not swarmed) to get any use out of them. It's very difficult to injure swarmed survivors because of the timing and it requires a lot of skill to pull off.
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Someone isn’t crouch walking to go for hook saves. 👀
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If I can be short...
Artist will go down to D-tier if she will have 4.4ms due to her weakness. (Holding W)
Aside from Artist, Hag's weaknesses can be countered by addons and perks. (shackles and Franklins) Crouching against traps isn't really working... I can't even imagine the Hag's tier, if she was 4.6ms like Trapper...
To me, Artist is a good and healthy A-tier killer.
Hag is an S-tier killer if these addons and perks in use. In some situations she's even better than nurse.
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Actually yeah, maybe she should give more warning instead. Like the post above me said, she might get too weak with 4.4 since she can be countered with holding w sometimes.
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I think it could work!
It wouldn't fix all her issues but it'd be a step in the right direction
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You lost to an Artist didn't you? Can we please stop this whole "I'm a killer main(Really!) but this killer needs a nerf because I 4k too easily!" machiavellian bs? No one falls for it it's obvious and it's cringe.
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Do you also refrain from playing Freddy because he's so strong you'll 4k every time?
I say we make all killers 115% (4.6 m/s), just so we don't have to play this "they should be 115" "no, they should be 110" game every time. That lays the foundations for us to balance around killers being good in chase.
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Boons just kill her. CoH and Dark Theory are stupid strong against her.
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I don't think either is oppressive. Have you played as them both?
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A lot of skill? She literally shutdowns loops with her power and forces you to shift w away,,artist can be described as many things,, a killer that takes skill is not of them, not saying she is super easy, definitely not hard though
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Outside of loops she does require skill, even at certain loops it can still be argued she does require a certain amount of skill / Knowledge.
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Because Hag has really good mobility and Artist doesn't?
Now the real question is, why is Deathslinger 4.4, and Artist 4.6? xd
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Then why is Blight 4.6
Plz nerf Blight
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I hate that. I always bring bamboozle because Windows
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