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Since Reassurance is useless, when is Camping going to be addressed?

Sumnox
Sumnox Member Posts: 605

Title. Reassurance was supposed to be this magic solution to camping, finally Behaviour was acknowledging the issue and doing something about it. Now that Reassurance has been released, people are realising that it literally does nothing to help what it's supposed to help, and it's not worth bringing.


So, anyway, after 6 years of not only not punishing camping, but actually buffing it and encouraging it, when are we getting the tools to address this?


When are you going to do anything for solo Q survivors while we're at it?


We get it, you can release pretty cosmetics. I get it, you've got a good artistic team. What about the actual balance of the game?

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Comments

  • TheLastHook
    TheLastHook Member Posts: 495
    edited August 2022

    It's already addressed by playing Survive With Friends and switching to voice communications using Discord.

    Just get better at trading hooks and abusing immunity from BT and other perks. Coordinate better on Discord.

  • ClarityOfWill
    ClarityOfWill Member Posts: 205

    It's not useless, but it's not great either. Once you factor in the range and the time lost from travelling to the survivor / generator it's pretty underwhelming. However, you cannot allow people to force someone to stay hooked perpetually either so it did need some kind of a change. Where it's strength lies (aside from swf) is endgame where people need time to heal up and try for a rescue.

    It's likely going to need some kind of buff though if no base changes for face camping are coming.

  • Sumnox
    Sumnox Member Posts: 605

    Well but that's the thing. If you want people to bring something to help camping, it needs to be good. Anything other than it being good, is just trash. "it's not completely useless" is no good. It equals people not bringing it.

    At least make it 60 seconds per hook stage.

  • ClarityOfWill
    ClarityOfWill Member Posts: 205

    I'd rather they put something basekit so that people aren't obligated to take specific perks or worse, have a bandaid solution gated behind a paywall (no shrine does not count simply due to the likelihood of it appearing). However, I agree with you the timer needs to be higher, something around 45-50 seconds. Kinship is only 34 seconds but has a significantly more generous activation window (even though it's second stage only)

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,378

    It's not 1/16th except at the very start of the match. If the killer does their job right, it's going to be 1/4th because one survivor will be rescuing/healing, one will be getting rescued/healed, one will be in chase, leaving only one on the generators.

    What's with these doom scenarios where people work off the assumption that the killer is AFK?

  • 6659Leg
    6659Leg Member Posts: 102

    Sounds like you expected way too much from a perk. You can't force someone to play a certain way,if that killer wants to camp/tunnel you to death then you're gonna die and there's no way around it.

  • WorthlessBeing
    WorthlessBeing Member Posts: 378

    And reward survivors for rushing the hook like brainless flies rushing into decayed meat, something we know they do whenever they can, at the detriment of the poor player stuck for at least 2 and a half minute on a hook.

  • ClarityOfWill
    ClarityOfWill Member Posts: 205

    Because the perk shouldn't be balanced around the possibility of 3 other people all having it. If only there was some limit they could put in place and adjust the numbers, truly a mystery we will never solve /s

  • Oiry
    Oiry Member Posts: 218

    My god, I hate posts like this. Instead of having a conversation, you literally start asserting your agenda. "Since reassurance is useless...". Really? :D How is it useless? Do you also think Kinship is useless?

  • Carth
    Carth Member Posts: 1,182
    edited August 2022

    Except that's exactly how survivor perks need to be balanced(what's the worst case scenario in a swf). Using that logic some of the most broken and busted perk nerds need to be reverted, did you think old object of obsession was fair?

  • konchok
    konchok Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 1,719

    Alright, I want to stop all of this non-sense. This perk is legitimately a strong perk and I'll explain why.


    This perk isn't just strong against campers, even though it's that too. But it's especially good at one very common scenario. You're nearly finished with a gen but someone's on hook, you finish your gen and the killer comes back to the hook. (very common because the killer is going to want to punish you for prioritizing the generator) At which point the killer can force a trade or get a grab or even force death. In this situation you activate the perk and someone else can get the save while you're getting chased. That situation would have been game ending before and that's no longer the case.

  • SgtMittens
    SgtMittens Member Posts: 249

    You can still see them leaving at 16m. If you don't see that, they're probably hanging around. I use kindred and open handed most of the time so I'm going to know one way or another.

  • Sumnox
    Sumnox Member Posts: 605

    Congratulations, you explained why Reassurance might work in SWF

  • ClarityOfWill
    ClarityOfWill Member Posts: 205


    Not saying it shouldn't be taken into consideration. However, that wasn't the point I was making, it was more that there were better ways of addressing the PTB issues and still keeping it balanced. Anyway, old object wasn't a problem because 4 people could bring it, it was a problem because only 1 needed to and then relayed that information to the other 3. On maps like Midwich it reduced killers such as Trapper into a pointless exercise. Likewise, old DS wasn't nerfed because 3 other people could bring it, but because of it's strength relative to the wider game.

  • Loldino
    Loldino Member Posts: 49

    Lets look at why The Perk is ussless now

    They Nerfed it because of survivors using it to Keep others on hook forever

    In other words SWF abused it and got it nerfed for all of you

  • DBDVulture
    DBDVulture Member Posts: 2,437

    Sorry but being able to use it more than once per hook state is abusive.


    How long does unhooking and healing take? Does it take 90 seconds? It does not. You need to remember that most of the game as killer is you chase one person while everyone else can do whatever they want. Mathematically during the first five minutes of any game you can expect a killer to be keeping one person busy during the majority of that time. This is a fact based on the idea that chases take a long time.

    Killer's speed is X/4 compared to one survivor. If two people are still on generators that is 2x relative to the killer. If we consider that one person is always on the hook and one person is always being chased ( which is a false premise) then the killer needs a multiple of 8 to "catch up" to two survivors.

    It doesn't take a math genius to prove that base regression speed for killers is too slow.


    Do you know the problem with the scenario you listed? You decided to finish the gen before you rescued your friend. If you always rescue the friend first then camping becomes far less likely.

    The problem is that you know that finishing the gen first and getting the rescue right before the next stage is a better outcome. What you fail to realize is that when hook timers were increased it was so you have more time to rescue against a camper. It was not intended as "more time for you to finish gens before making a rescue".

    The problem is that is exactly what most people want.

  • botany_nerd
    botany_nerd Member Posts: 123
    edited August 2022
    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,782

    It was specifically designed to punish killers that are face camping so badly that they won’t move when another survivor is 6 meters from the hook.

    BHVR never said they were getting rid of proxy camping, which is what you want the perk to do.

  • Dustin
    Dustin Member Posts: 2,306
    edited August 2022

    Reassurance was never supposed to fix camping - It was supposed to be a perk that took pressure away from a killer. It just happens that it hurt full on campers the most so it looked like that magic solution.

    It was always a terrible perk for solving camping. Doesn't at all help the solo survivors, doesn't make it clear the killer is camping to every survivor not nearby and doesn't encourage the survivors to either push through objectives or rescue the survivor. Genuinely confused as to why the majority of the community thinks this was an amazing solution to camping even prior to the change. It never was and was only good for taking away killer pressure and nothing else. For that purpose it's still great because 30 seconds is a long ass time in game.

    You won't ever make this perk have the ability to stop camping - However doing the following will prompt other survivors to act - which is the issue right now. Have it show the killer aura to everyone else if they are within the activation distance when this perk procs and give it one of the two buffs if you want it to do the following.

    Either

    Give everyone an objective speed buff for the duration if the killer aura was revealed so they know to do objectives

    or

    Give everyone increased unhook speed OR Endurance when they are within range of the survivor being camped so they can actually perform a save. Then you'll have your magical band aid solution for camping.

    Alternatively - BHVR could just work on modifying the killer powers who enable camping the most and adjust hook mechanics to make baseline adjustments so there is no camping. Because a perk isn't the solution to it.

    tl;dr - It's still a great perk for taking away pressure from the killer - It was never a good anti camping perk - You all just twisted the idea of this perk into that and set your expectations too high for it

  • Sumnox
    Sumnox Member Posts: 605

    Please stop derailing, spamming the same flaming comments over and over, and insulting everyone, you contribute -nothing- constructive in any thread you participate in. Just insults.


    Sorry, but an anecdote where this perk worked doesn't make it good. I also have instances where I made Detective's Hunch help. It's still a trash perk.

  • botany_nerd
    botany_nerd Member Posts: 123

    so does mine but i don't need to record it and demand people to go watch it when i sit there telling people to GeT GoOd like a entitled child. 🤣

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,219

    But slugging is boring, and it would be the best way to go in your scenario.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 1,771

    I've heard this a lot, but no one can answer my question. Do you have evidence this occurred? A clip, vod, video, anything?


    I'm not saying it isn't possible for a couple survivors to work together with the killer to hold someone hostage, just that no one seems to have evidence, only 'saying it happened.' Almost like people just made up an urban legend and stuck with it.


    And nerfing the perk is useless for responding a bully situation, since a couple survivors can work together with the killer right now to body block anyone from moving. Base kit, no perks required. Same hostage situation, but that seems to be a non issue. Strange.

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,513

    No it was not just would kill camping so that why it was nerfed so campers don't get punished. I did my last basement bubba thinking it would not be viable anymore before update but barely no-one uses it so facecamping bubba is still easy 4K and if survivors know what they're doing still easy 2K.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,378

    If you're so concerned about that 'poor player', just don't camp. They won't be up there for 2.5 minutes if you don't camp.


    How long does unhooking and healing take? Does it take 90 seconds? It does not. You need to remember that most of the game as killer is you chase one person while everyone else can do whatever they want. Mathematically during the first five minutes of any game you can expect a killer to be keeping one person busy during the majority of that time. This is a fact based on the idea that chases take a long time.

    Honey, if your chases take 90 seconds, you are the problem, not the game's base regression rate.

    Killer's speed is X/4 compared to one survivor. If two people are still on generators that is 2x relative to the killer. If we consider that one person is always on the hook and one person is always being chased ( which is a false premise) then the killer needs a multiple of 8 to "catch up" to two survivors.

    No, he doesn't. Because if the third survivor isn't going for the unhook, you'll get a kill long before the survivors are done with their gens, and if you have two on hook at a time, you have to royally misplay to lose that one.

    And aside from the third survivor being MIA in your 'calculations', you're also not accounting for survivor travel time, or survivors dealing with totems, or the killer power adding delays, or, really, -any factors-.

  • botany_nerd
    botany_nerd Member Posts: 123

    it's funny that they say that since i was playing ptb since day 1 that it came out and in both the times that i played killer and survivor i never once saw or was affected by these so called hostage situations. what did happen though is that frustrated campers came and whined on the forums for a major nerf and bhvr did like they do best and had a knee jerk reaction and nerfed the perk into the ground. funny how they promised they weren't gonna have those knee jerk reactions reactions anymore. there was plently of decent suggestions on how to stop the hostage situation but entitled whining won out further cementing that the devs have no idea how to balance perks without making 3/4 of them worthless to use.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,217

    Explain how you would of used PTB Reassurance and why that wouldn't work for release Reassurance.

    Remember the PTB version had a cooldown longer than the effect. So you still needed two survivors or the hooked survivor's timer will still decrease.

  • Rise432
    Rise432 Member Posts: 162

    I have gotten consistent reassurance value almost every game with it


    Its been barley a day, wait until more players learn how to utilize it properly

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,987

    Just use Reassurance... Properly. That will solve your problem.

  • dictep
    dictep Member Posts: 1,333

    And don’t you would have best use of other perk in general in every other match?

  • dictep
    dictep Member Posts: 1,333

    You used it once. Don’t you thinking it was better to use another perk that you could use every match?

  • konchok
    konchok Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 1,719

    All I can say is that you're super entitled to think that survivors are not allowed to play optimally. I'm a killer main, look through my history if you don't believe me. All I did was explain why it was a strong perk and in your view I committed a cardinal sin for assuming that survivors shouldn't play efficiently.

  • dictep
    dictep Member Posts: 1,333

    The solution to facecamping at 5 gens is the same since the last killer patch... run to the hook, let him 4k asap and find another instant lobby to have fun. You’ll find him in this forums soon crying about swf at high ranks

  • Nun_So_Vile
    Nun_So_Vile Member Posts: 2,418
    edited August 2022

    I took it off because it's a waste of a perk slot in Death Q. It's value is too dependent on your teammates having more than 1 brain cell. I really wanted to see this perk be strong, but in my games yesterday I get teammates that are too dumb to coordinate a save even when reassurance has been used, survs bringing killers back to the hooked surv just to get hit, use reassurance on them, and run away while the killer just sits there, and i'm seeing teams that sure do love to waste time doing anything but gens with COH and reassurance .