So, how about that new basekit BT? You guys notice it?
The thing I noticed the most in my games was the speed
I was playing with a healing build and I'd unhook people and I'd try to follow them to heal them and they'd zoom off like roadrunner, leaving me in the dust with my we'll make it active. Pretty funny
Also to the people who are running BT the perk, my hat goes off to you because it is insanely strong now
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played a great amount of survivor games and when people run BT, it's so stupidly long. 10s was definitely an overkill, 5 wasn't enough, but 10 really hurts to look at
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Nah, I count to 10 before I swing.
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Definitely noticed the speed increase.
The endurance effect is roughly the same, most of the time unused so far.
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When killer perks get buffed, they go up by 2-10%. When survivor perks get buffed, they get doubled.
That's just the state of the game.
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With BT I think it's around 20 seconds, that's crazy
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Yeah, it's really solid. I don't feel completely doomed when I'm unhooked in endgame without my OTR, and it's enough time to get out of basement, reach a tile, or even reach someone else if it's a snowball scenario. It's powerful and I feel like I can take off BT now and still do something helpful against a facecamper.
...BT's absolutely insane in its current state, though. Dear god. 20 seconds of invincibility and f a s t is a bit on the nutty side.
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I think I hit someone who had it on them tonight once or maybe twice? 🤷♂️ I'm in the habit from a long time ago of hitting the unhooker first in a hook trade but every now and then I accidentally hit the person who got unhooked and they have to go Mend (assuming they aren't dumb and hang around, if they do that I'll just down them again. If they sprint off though I'll down the rescuer since that survivor didn't get an extra speed boost to get away.)
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I do appreciate them making BT the perk not useless since it has to do something good enough to warrant people running it
But 20 seconds of endurance is, a lot. Def not viable to wait out if the survivors not just stood still.
Good thing if they are being tunnelled
Bad thing if they are trying to bodyblock.
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That's exactly the issue, that last part. I have BT on my current build and people I unhook just run straight back at the killer, even when they're a good 30m away from the hook. 20s is a long window to bodyblock, and people don't expect it because it's been a month since anyone's run BT.
BT bodyblocking should probably be looked at right now. Nothing concerning protection hits will ever work, so I'd just look at removing collision.
(I'm also bemused that BT gets to be this powerful when Guardian's been completely forgotten, but eh, separate issue.)
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It really isn't. The devs would be shooting themselves in the foot metaphorically if they ever decreased it again. People are clearly frustrated with tunneling, so this change was absolutely necessary.
10 seconds is more than fine.
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I don't see how that is a problem though. The killer just doesn't need to tunnel, that's all.
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Because people have never solely used BT as an anti-tunnel perk? The part where BT really helps you get away from the killer is fantastic; the part where it's a really solid shield wall against a killer who isn't trying to tunnel is bad. And the increased speed makes it easier to keep cutting a killer off when they're trying to get around you.
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Smh. Its always comments like this that take your spirit and just crush it and throw it on the ground and then trample and grind it into dust.
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I mean, you probably have to count longer because of the haste added as well
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Think about it like this:
You're playing an instadown killer like myers and a survivor unhooks somebody near you. As you go to punish them for their misplay, the person they unhooked is constantly bodyblocking you with OTR. You either hit them and eat the endurance which gives the healthy survivor more than enough time to make distance
Or you try to get past them which often doesn't work because bodyblocking killers isn't that hard.
It's not a bad play on the survivor end to do this, but it isn't quite fair because you're trying NOT to tunnel, but they are forcing you to.
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In that case, just tunnel.
I don't know, I just don't think it's a big deal at all. I do think it's often enough possible to just ignore the bodyblocking survivor. And if not, well then you just want to tunnel again. It kind of also just encourages to stay near a hooked survivor, which is also good.
So yeah, I definitely do not see a problem here. I guess I wouldn't mind if they made it so survivors with endurance didn't have collision, but I don't think that's needed at the moment. Survivors needed help now, that was pretty obvious when looking at queue times. This tunneling nerf was at the very least a good start. I think the devs would be sabotaging themselves if they ever actually decreased the duration again. That would be so stupid.
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I mean I think it's fine as well, kinda.
But you have to consider that Killers not trying to tunnel do get forced to by survivors who do this because whether we like it or not, it is 100% the smartest thing to do to force a killer to hit you and not your teammate.
It's like health state economy - an injured survivor being deep wounded outweighs a healthy survivor being injured or even downed
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I can confirm that this doesn't stop them tunneling. There's nothing to worry about here. I unhooked a survivor while injured, the killer doubled back and the unhooked teammate used their entire 10s endurance to bodyblock the killer from chasing after me. I went down. End of story.
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I noticed that Nurse don't care... She will eat 3 hits no problem.
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They're not talking about 10s basekit BT, they're talking about 20s actual BT. 10s, and the old 12s, were easier to wait out than 20s plus a speed boost.
It's also conditionally variable on the environment. Bodyblocking a doorway or bottleneck gets way more mileage than trying to push the killer around in an open space.
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The point I was making wasn't that basekit BT makes tunnelling hard
It's that long endurance status effects can cause issues like this which is why careful consideration is needed. That's why I used OTR as the example bc no killer is waiting out 80s of endurance. It's just not happening
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I haven't run into a single survivor running Reassurance, and I wouldn't have known there was a change to basekit BT if I didn't read the patch notes.
Camping & Tunneling are as prevalent as they were yesterday. Game is as infuriating as ever.
One trial everything is hunky-dory, the next i want to uninstall because nothing could be more boring
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I forgot all about it tbh, I had no killers tunnel me after the unhook so didn't even cop an endurance hit
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I have! Reassurance is pretty cool. It can be used for smart play. I had a Leon who used it on me so he could finish working on a Gen nearby. I was concerned at first, but praised him mentally when he finished it and got me off the hook.
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Ah, very true. I can definitely see why this would be a threat, especially with well-coordinated SWFs.
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One thing I have noticed in the roughly 15 games or so that I played today is that whenever someone would go down after doing a trade, the killer never once slugged them to go tunnel the person that just got off hook, which was way more common when basekit BT was only 5 seconds. Not saying i won't run into any hardcore tunnelers eventually, but if today's matches have been any indication, I'd say the buff to 10 seconds was overall much healthier for the game.
Still saw quite a few campers though.
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It actually helped me against a wesker that decided to really tunnel me like he would break chase with an injured survivor to run 6 miles across the map when he spotted me. I was like that from the start he ran past 2 teammates and went straight for me. I would lose him in chase and he would find me later and stop what he was doing to chase me. BT saved me on both hook states.
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Yeah 10 seconds of moving at 110% speed is pretty good, so much distance gained from it - it makes sense that in your games Killers just took their trade instead of greeding for both.
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I reluctantly have to agree. Tunneling had become really bad this last month, showing once again that we can never truly have a nice thing, because the lazy or less stelar parts of this community will always abuse or weaponize it and twist it in ways that were never intended, ruining it for everyone else.
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to be fair, I've been busy leveling multiple characters, etc and using a character that has flans, so they may not have it, yet. When I did have it, I loved it, and can't wait to use it more.
Also, I'm going to be honest. As someone that does play a lot of survivor, they know that body blocking with endurance is "rude" and they risk getting tunneled for it. I think in 5k hours of survivor and killer, I've maybe HARD body blocked with it 3 times, because someone came back for me on death hook in EGC or something, and I didn't want them to die for having altruism. But I knew the risks. I'm a very chill killer, and I go for 12 hooks if at all possible, but if a survivor hard body blocks me or forces DS on me when I'm being a "wholesome killer" and not tunneling? They can go back on the hook, and they should know to expect that. I don't see this as an issue whatsoever.
It sucks that you don't get a healthy survivor as an insta down killer, but you get someone closer to death or dead because they asked to be tunneled.
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It's not really about it being rude tbh, it's a smart thing to do and both survs and killers know this for the most part
I don't have a problem tunnelling people through endurance, but it's def worth thinking about when you make long timed-based endurance perks that people will try to abuse them like that.
From a balance POV It's fine really, I think most ppl would just say it's annoying
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They took the 2nd most-used survivor perk and cranked it up to 11, while ALSO putting a BETTER version in the base game for free. So you can play without BT and get more value than you used to have, or use BT and get an insane value that will give your target a 100% free escape every time.
It's kind of a joke. It'd be like if, instead of 2.5% regression from kicking gens, killers got 30% regression after hooking a survivor automatically AND a further 30% if you use Pop Goes the Weasel.
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BT basically became a required perk pre-basekit though wouldn't you agree?
Like you remember how easy tunnelling and camping was when it was perk based and wasn't there?
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Borrowed Time and similar perks exist for two reasons:
- As survivor second-chance perks accelerated and map reworks made stages progressively more survivor-sided, chases became longer and longer for low-to-average skill killers. This meant that actually finding and downing survivors was far less of an eventuality and generators would fly by with no actual pressure on the team. This, in turn, lead to camping and tunneling, because how are you expected to spread out damage when you lose a gen or two with every chase?
- Survivors completely lost their fear of killers. They would run right up to the their friends and unhook them directly in the killer's face, trusting to second chance perks like Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, or Borrowed Time instead of actually bothering to sneak around and save their friends once the killer had left to find another target. Because people just bomb-dived hooks, killers actually couldn't get away from them before a new target showed up. And since THEY were full health, there wasn't any good reason to go after them instead of just downing the injured player.
The absolute worst thing they did to this game was make survivors way better in 1v1 than they have any right to be in a 1v4 game. If you could actually find, hunt, down, and hook survivors with a reasonable degree of success, NO ONE would be camping. You'd be playing the actual game to get your points. And there would be no need to tunnel because you're getting pressure on the team with a variety of downs and hooks, slowing gens as a result of ideal gameplay.
Though it may seem counter-intuitive, letting survivors loop killers for an entire game and heal up in seconds has completely killed off the 'correct' way to play DbD (by which I mean the version that is the most fun for both sides, with a give-and-take of damage, downs, and hooks spread out across the whole team).
So, instead you get games where survivors clown all over killer players who try to play 'fair' and get one person camped out of the game while the other three escape super easily. And their MMR goes up up up until they finally hit the top tier, where all the Nurse Mains live, find that they can't just clown the killer with zero effort, then come onto this forum and post "WE GOTTA NERF NURSE" threads.
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don't forget also that they buffed the haste effect too (from 7 to 10%, meaning that you'll go swift as a 4.4 killer for the entire duration of it)
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precisely why they should just make it so they have no collision at all (can't even be hit, or walk into them) for the duration. Makes it impossible to body block them to wait out the 10 seconds, but they also can't use it offensively.
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And this, Kids, is why comparing numbers of things which are not compareable is not really smart.
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People who body block are so dumb. I just stand there after I realize what they are doing and think "You really want me to tunnel you right now?"
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My first three games after the update were against three SWF that abused the bodyblock and the Deliverance + BT combo in the end game, sprinkled with t-bags all the way.
Well done BHVR.
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Now combine that with guardian lmao
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And don't worry, those 20 seconds still isn't enough to discourage 5 gen tunneling
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well I noticed it in a way that unhooked survivors more often use it now to run after the killer, instead away from the killer, to tank some hits with it and protect others. It was kinda obvious that it will be used for that instead of getting away. And it's basekit
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Exactly. Surreal stuff. Devs are committed to make Killers the Clown 🤡 role to entertain parties of SWF.
Meanwhile Corrupt Intervention was nerfed and the Trapper still needs to give up a generator or two collecting traps from the ground that will be disarmed easily later.
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Of course they do. Survivors use everything they have to cheat around the base mechanics and rules. From tunning nVidia settings to use actual cheats to fly around the map.
Any immunity will be abused often.
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I don't like the idea of making a survivor a human shield because it allows you to play even more reckless. There are a lot of instances where survivors just unhook before the killer can even leave the hook. With 10s BT they can now just bodyblock and FORCE the tunnel. Also think about which killers Surfer from this the most. It's not Nurse, Blight, Spirit or even Artist but especially M1 killers. I think it would be way healthier if the unhooked survivor got 15% haste and lost collision for 10s. This would make it pretty much impossible to tunnel and also remove the possibility of using it agressively.
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As survivor, yeah. It felt like we were so safe.
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No, because survivors were smart and brought BT. There was no such thing as easy tunneling, even with Pyramid Head because smart survivors avoid his trail like the Plague, going down rather than running through it.
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Its whatever. Better than 5 seconds though, at least 10 seconds is noticeable.
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Nah if I NEED to tunnel I can still do it quite easily
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For sure. well ever since the update I ate that BT quite a few times. the unhooked survivors sprinted towards me, instead of away from me a few times every game I played so far.
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