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Can we bring old DH back? Killer is too easy.
Comments
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I think in general the baseline changes have been a mistake - the individual killers were the issue for a while imo. Baseline just made the strongest killers that much stronger...
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I think breaking and kicking is fine. The ######### insane speedboost reduction allows me to zone survivors without even thinking about it. Kinda insane.
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It´s not that complicated to comprehend. Either you want Survivors escaping most of the time or Killers killing most of the time. In a 4vs1 game it´s impossible to address for near 50% numbers.
Among other things, because the boundary between 1K and 4K is not clear as "victory". Furthermore, Survivors play with external tools such as Discord, fix that first, you can then tweak the 0.001% buff on Killer perks or set Decisive Strike to 1 minute stun.
Then again, I was speaking for the vast majority of people who find Killer easy: fix is simple, play with The Trapper with no addons and no perks, until you get the desired level of difficulty, solved.
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way too many people are trying to appeal to the 1% of matches justifying the killer buffs. that's not how game balance works and this game should not be balanced around it.
this post and all of my matches is just more proof that most of your killer games ARE easily wiinable,you're just unwilling to accept that and instead appeal to the dreaded comp 4-man that you never face because you mostly face solos and casual SWFs who die nonetheless.
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That's strange. When the patch dropped, everyone said that DH didn't even matter and people who brought it up were 'obsessed' and everything else was way more important. But now OP is acting like DH alone made Killer super easy.
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Wouldn't it be cool if a new game mode was original DBD?
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I did not say anything of the sort? I'm saying we need to give survivors a chase buff/killers a chase nerf. OLD DH is an option.
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You're telling me a .2 and .3 value reduction made you feel every chase is now significantly easier? I would absolutely love it if BHVR did roll back those changes so then I can see the same people posting "not enough!! It feels the exact same!"
Am I saying the changes did nothing? Absolutely not. They do impact some chases, but acting like they universally shattered all loops and made chasing easy for killers when they were both sub .5 changes is silly. Do you happen to know what the delta is in terms of how many meters are lost in the current world vs the old?
Realistically the only time the changes would matter if that delta value was how far away you were from safety(reaching a vault/pallet) when you got hit the second time. If you got hit and let's say x is the value if you were some value such that you were less than or equal to x meters away from a pallet/vault then the changes impacted that chase. Anything else and it doesn't impact it.
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I'm sorry but you must be bad at holding W. The injured speed boost reduction is HUGE.
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ok here's some actual math.
Old sprint boost formula: (4.0 M/S * 1.5) * 2 seconds = 12 meters covered in 2 seconds
New spring boost foruma: (4.0 M/S * 1.5) * 1.8 seconds = 10.8 meters covered in 1.8 seconds.
A delta of 1.2 meters, now this doesn't include the reduced .3 seconds from the killer being reduced but I don't really want to do that math/can't think rn. My point being if you get hit a second time and are 1.2 meters away from a vault/pallet you can say "wow the changes impacted me". If you get hit further than 1.2 meters away, you would still get hit in the old formula as well. Like I said, this isn't 100% accurate as its missing the killer math piece of it so it is goint to be a little bit higher than 1.2 but the point still stands that there is a value that exists that will determine if the changes impact your chase or not. Acting like it hand wavy impacted every chase is a total over-reaction and like I said even if you reverted it, it would not change all your chases up.
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I play both yet prefer the old DH way more. Annoying as it was, now its so cheesy having a well timed demon strike rendered null and void because of a button click.
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Yes great idea. Instead of addressing the actual problems survivors have, like camping, tunneling, or the lack of information that swf survivors have, let's just nerf killers back to the state they were before, so no progress has been done at all. Fantastic.
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Or you know actually address the issues on killer side (Camping and Tunneling) which are the two common denominators of why this role feels too easy.
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Otz literally said in the video that it doesnt show that the game is killer or survivor sided, the only thing the video showed was the strength of camping and tunneling... in fact, that was literally the whole point of the video.
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Do you like killer being that easy?
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Yes,hence my point that it was pretty easy to win before if you tried and is easier now.
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ok here's some actual player experience:
I get more downs because of it as Killer and I have substantially less ability to creat distance as Survivor.
You're ignoring the part that when you make distance killer has to spend time to catch up. The little 0.3s attack cool down + the speed boost duration reduction add up tremendously.
Your math is in a vacuum and doesn't reflect the game at all.
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The chases feel too easy. I don't think that's up to camping and tunneling.
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I think the entire bloody thread is me saying that it's boring.
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So we should change the game because one person think is boring? Have you ever considered the idea that the world doesn't spin around you? What about you adapting your own needs?
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Look if winning as killer is extremely easy now,which it is,that means all the survivors are not having good time. Half-way decent Killer players are not having a good time because winning all the time without trying is boring.
The only demographic that leaves is really bad killer players who couldnt win before 6.1.0... say,would you happen to be bad at the videogame?
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This is obviously a joke
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I mean new DH is still pretty good against killers where you can anticipate their attacks and take the speed boost and if that don't suit you fancy there's plenty of other great exhaustion perks out there like Lithe, sprint burst or hell even overcome. Just use those.
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it's not just pretty good. it's way ######### better.
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There is no source for what you said. Honestly, it doesn't even make sense...
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citation needed for your claims bud. I've got all of my games backing up my words.
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Bud, your games don't mean a thing. They are only... random games!
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It still needs to actually work. Which it often does not.
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and you're a random forum user with bad takes and less upvotes. killer is too strong rn ;)
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whiskas man strikes again and works like pure garbage
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I have a couple thoughts after reading all of this:
- We'd need a large block of gameplay to review to assess anything. I see a lot of people posting about how easy killer is, and using postgame screens and unverifiable claims of how high their MMR is, and how many hours they play, as some sort of proof. Not outright calling people liars, but that doesn't mean much at all. I play pretty lax, but I could grab a few post game snaps after I fed some potatoes their lunch and say they reflect like 90% of my games, but it wouldn't mean anything either. Might it be an honest sample? Sure. Might it just be a bunch of cherry-picking? Just as likely.
- Yes, you can win most of your games as killer versus non-swfs if you play with merciless, cold efficiency. But is that really what we want to balance around? Is that what we want to hold up as standard killer play? Because I can do it too, but I don't want to, and survs don't want it, either. At least not every match. Killers playing to win is why the "rulebook" came to be.
This is all just illustrative of how impossible this game is to balance. If you balance around the idea that we need to account for the fact that any given killer might may play ruthlessly, then you're going to force more killers to play that way. It's also the reason you don't want to balance around SWF; it would ruin solo queue and casual DBD in general.
At the end of the day, how the games go is in the hands of the players, because this thing is never gonna be standardized.
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7...seconds?
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I plan to get some, eventually.
As for your second point - this is ALREADY what we balanced around when buffing killers. Killers lost most often because they played badly or faced wildly overpowered perks.
but people just said survivor op,swf op and killer got baseline buffs that are just too much imo. they didn't need em. individual Killers and perks/items needed addressing.
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I think the changes were great and these Changes arent that opressive for the Survivor Side. The new DH is still strong. You just need a little Bit more ,,skill'' (if you can speak about that) to use it. Some of you have allready say that the reson why you lose as Survivor is because of teammates dont do gens. Most af the the time I play Solo Que and so many players, witch dont even know what a gen is, but I also have so many great teamnates. Withe the great teamnates we stomp the Killer so ######### hard and with the bad teamnates sometimes we also manage to win some times. If you play as a Team as Survivor you can win, if not you die, thats how the game works and should work, befor the changes the Survivors just winning because of there Perks.
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You are not a killer main...
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Hey guys look i played against the below 0 mmr survivors that one of them has TECHNICIAN and I got 4k killer is OP as hell
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Well but the community (and devs) plan to balance around swf by giving icons and stuff (which will help swf too because a flick of the eye is faster than asking for info)
While simultabeously making "playing killer ruthlessy" more difficult and advocating to gut the top killers down to "more manageable levels ( see billy adjustment lol)
We as community theorycraft bslance around buffing noobs to swf swat teams and gutting top killers down lol.
Oh right:
DH was conditioning many killers to be wary of it regardless of it being equipped or not. Not even noed managed to do that for survs lol.
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Well yes, but also no. The meta shifted but it's kind of the same. Anti-tunnel and camp perks exist, most people just dont bring them though since the meta for survivor isnt as "set in stone" as it use to be. I think people are still trying to figure out what's best to bring.
Combine this with just tunneling and camping not truly being solved to a great extent. I mean realistically if the developers found some way to remove camping and tunneling as a playstyle, killrates would absolutely drop by a huge amount, and killer will become insanely challenging for those who relied on camping and tunneling... Overall it's kind of a tough thing to balance out.
I think it would be better to balance out the cheap but super effective playstyles on both sides, it would improve game health and make the game more enjoyable for everyone. But something like "bring back old DH" isnt going to do anything productive, we took some steps forward, we dont want to take some steps back.
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“Survivors aren’t escaping as much, let’s just give them back a busted perk to make up for it” hell naw, that’s like if killer wasn’t winning as much so we brought back old ruin/undying or old moris
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The only way to really balance around SWF would be to implement voice comms, which thankfully isn't something likely yo ever happen. The icons will be good, but still well short of voice comms. Yes, it's quicker than voice comms, but you can convey a ton more info over comms, and it's not particularly close. Some will say that communication is a skill, and to a degree it is, but it's not like an arcane art or something. Efficient yet informative call outs are not hard to learn, and in DBD info is king.
The icons might add a little to a SWF squad, but they will be transformative for solo.
SWF hit squads are rare, and there's nothing you can really do about them but do your best and move on.
I'd be all for bringing killer power levels closer to the mean (but not too close), and would understand even flat out removing the Nurse (another thing that will never happen). But until that happens, you can't nerf killer as whole fairly; you'll end up making the C/D tier killer totally non-viable.
And DH was used much more than NOED, and regardless of how much you were conditioned by it, or how skilled you were, there was nothing you could do about the distance. Old DH was the most busted perk in the game, new DH is fine.
And I don't know about you, but I always assume NOED, and always have, even if the rate is low.
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no. only if suddenly killers overall are performing better than intended.
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I agree that individual killers need to be balanced, no doubt about that. But that is a long term project, at least when you are talking about the whole. Starting with S-tier, and some of A.
But what needs to happen before that is to buff solo, and reassess. It's the games against solo queue that feel easier, the games against SWF (and some strong solo teams) feel about the same as ever. MMR needs some love too, it's been especially inadequate lately.
But again, balancing the killers on a case by case basis is a task that will take years. Adding some of the solo buffs should be relatively quick.
Killer isn't OP, solo has just been left behind.
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I don´t understand the correlation between killer being to easy and bringing old DH back.
Are you implying, that DH carried survivors so hard, that it drastically reduced the kill rate?
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Holy cow you obliterated him tbh. Good point.
I don't think Killer is that strong right now, I just thing we have the classic "triangle":
- SWF beats Killer.
- Killer beats SoloQ.
What I would do is focus on buffing soloQ. Like having a ping system in the hud like "I'm working on a gen" or "hey, I have CoH, don't break bones" or even "I'm going for the safe!". That would be GREAT.
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I actually agree that comms are way more versatile than everthying they could add to emulate it.
I'm not even against giving survivors all that ui stuff (action and maybe general location), but people should stop claiming that stuff wont be used better by swf than by solo.
Also, if we buff survivors only from bottom up the same should be applied to killers.
The future C-D tiers should be at the current A-B tiers.
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people want to.... buff dead hard?
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Oh look 3 screenshots without context, first time I've seen something like this here!
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They mean 0.7 seconds. Therefore their second dot before the 7.
I think the time DH is active should be buffed. .7 seconds would be good imo.
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Man you said something that makes no sense. Just say high MMR, then people will see that you know what you're talking about.
Nobody knows what you mean if you use old terms, do you think grade affects matchmaking? It doesn't.
Either way, I don't think OP could keep getting these 4ks forever. Why doesn't he go for a 50 winstreak and try to 4k every match? Then he'd reach high MMR and we'd see if he was actually good or just playing against noobs.
Also let's not bring awful old DH back. Let's givesolo survs more info instead.
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Guaranteed you distance to pallets or windows you otherwise would have never reached, and as a result it could erase mistakes too, and countered everykiller ability in the game including trapper and slinger.
It was boring, broken and 75% usage attop MMR. I have no idea what your skill level is but it made high level games miserable for a large portion of the cast.
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