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My suggestions regarding Camping and Tunneling
My suggestions for balancing in brief:
Tunneling - "killer decides to chase a survivor again":
3 sec Decisive Strike basekit + it should be active after each unhook unless all gens are done
Endgame slug:
If there are only two survivors left in the match, then a slugged survivor should be able to stand up after 60 seconds.
Camping
If the killer is too close to a hook for too long, then let the hooked survivor spawn on another hook (PH says hello)
Since DS was nerfed, camping and tunneling has gotten out of hand. I actually have no problem with it. The problem is my mates who give up as soon as they are camped or tunnelled. I think if these unfun tactics were removed then survivor mains would be less upset when they didn't survive.
Personally, I tunnel survivor only when they want to be tunnelled. Still, I win most matches.
Average survivor: 3-4 kills
Good survivors: 2 kills
Chuck Norris and friends: 0-1 kill
And yes, I mostly play against average survivor.
If survivors are too strong after these changes, then you can still buff killers that are underperforming. Map balancing is still important!
What do you think?
Comments
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I don't think DS basekit is the way to go about tunneling.
Your endgame slug idea rewards failure on the part of the survivors.
Hook relocation is extremely abusable and is not comparable to cages which spawn as far as possible away.
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First: I think there are always survivors that give up for no real reason. Like Going against nurse, even Legion and whatever. Some people DC against every killer when they go down within 10 seconds. Some DC against exposed addons. You will never fix that. Some even DC when they go down and see that right in that second noone is working on gens
Second: the warping is something I already dislike on Phead. Yeah, fixes camping. But this is the same strange solution like making survivors invisible to be not tunnelable or something like that. It doesnt fit into the game designwise. Feels clunky.
Another note: I dont have your experience regarding matchmaking. I mostly run into Chuck Norris. So I agree that DS should revert to 5 seconds and even think that it should activate on every hook. Not too sure about the basekit because I think the basekit BT makes the perk obsolete already. And there are enough tools to play around camping. But the issue is, you cant adjust the game around your experience because this is not what everyone experiences. The problem is MMR and matchmaking (and map balancing). I stopped saving randoms during endgame because I regularly get left behind, by scared survivors and people leaving while I'm on hook first stage and all 4 people still alive. This drains my MMR and I get to play with people with even less experience and never get out of there. Escape/Death is such a bad spot to build an MMR on... I think the emblem system would be better if it would be tweaked a bit. Had a topic on that as well some time ago.
The major thing to adress would be to reward the killer to go for hooks, rather than punishing quick for kills. Like survivors hooked for the first time need a noticeable unrevertable debuff in any way, so you want everyone hooked once quickly. Or there was already a good idea around like not having personal 3 hook states but a trialwide hook counter. And a survivor dies when he was hooked at least once and there are 7 hooks in the game. So it doesnt matter if you hook this or that survivor, it even would be better to hook the guy that hasnt been hooked yet, to give him the debuff and make sure his next hook is possibly his death hook
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Killers will think twice about eating a 3 sec stun every time they tunnel a survivor.
Why is it the survivor's failure when the killer has to slug for his sweaty 4K? It's just boring to bleed out for 4 minutes and wasting your time.
Logically, the respawns of the hooks should also be as far away from the killer as possible.
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A 3s stun is a joke.
Because to get in that situation, it means the killer already realistically beat the survivors? 2 are dead, third is downed, fourth is on the run or hiding. Why should the survivors be rewarded for losing?
And then that ends up with survivors forcing killer into a lose-lose, much like every other considered-and-scrapped idea BHVR has gone through.
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Basekit ds along with the new basekit bt is just too much. It should be either one or the other and I think most people much prefer basekit bt. The hook thing can be abused as a killer could use it to split pressure when peps try to save or to prevent saves etc its just too risky having the pyramid head cage aspect on every single killer in the game, not to mention this wont stop proxy camping. I think tbh the tunnelling and camping thing is decently ok now, you cant stop it entirely, but you can at least make the killer throw the match to do it.
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It doesn't reward the survivor for losing. The survivors still lose. Just hook the next to last survivor and try to catch the last dude as well. And hey, 3 Kill is still a win. It punishes the killer for letting you bleed out on the floor for 4 minutes because he can't find Dwight at the end.
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Basekit DS is only a problem if you are actively tunneling.
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People would use it aggressively to take hits and downs for their rescuer. You could bring unbreakable and once the killer downs you, simply pick yourself up before it expires. At least with old small pp people had to bring 2 perks, with this they only need 1.
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You're right, I can't adjust the game based on my experience. But the truth is that the majority of survivors are bad or average. And against such survivor, camping and tunneling is unnecessary.
The difference between you and me is that you believe in matchmaking. If there is a MM, then it doesn't work for me at all. Actually, as a killer I always had to play against good people because I win most matches. But I only get average opponents. In Solo Q I mostly have bad mates. I currently survive 60%, but I always go for the last unhook. I only leave people behind if they were antimates or if the unhook is impossible.
Emblem based MM instead of Hockey based MM? I made this suggestion a long time ago. Certainly some people would agree with that.
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Some will, you're right. But if people want the tunnel, then they should get it :) That's also the reason why I would only let the Basekit DS stun for 3 seconds.
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DS is just not it. Killer shouldn't always be punished for being able to re-down and re-hook a recently unhooked survivor.
Slugging is just what it is. A killer cannot reliably (situational for sure) get there 4 man by letting the other survivor run around, especially if uninjured. Slugging isnt as big as an issue anyway.
The teleporting hook is a PH unique ability and would really hurt killers who hooked someone in a specific place. Either a hard place to escape if unhooked or if they are 3 genned.
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Exactly some will. The nicest killer on earth who plays by the survivor rulebook might just get screwed over by a basekit ds and unbreakable. This would not even prevent tunnelling since a killer who wants to tunnel is still going to do it, the idea is the survs need to make it so they throw the match for it.
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Do you 99% the gates when playing survivor?
If you see a survivor slugged for the 4k, do you wait for them to die so you get the hatch?
If you do sometimes then you shouldnt talk about slugging for the 4k.
As for the 3k is a win thing: ever got the 2500 bp for winning that way?
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No thanks, DS is already annoying enough. Why cant you just body block for your fellow survivors to protect them from tunneling.
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The current punishment for tunnelling and camping is that the Killer expends all their time and energy to get 1 kill while the remaining survivors can rush gens and escape, and the Killer gets less BP. Yes, it sucks when you get tunnelled or camped, but if you don't play into the Killer they can still lose overall. I don't camp as Killer because it's usually a bad strategy, and I only tunnel when a Survivor has game-changing or obnoxious perks and items. I've had 2 recent Survivor games against a camping Killer: the 1st was a complete wipe because everyone else just threw themselves into the meat grinder to try and unhook and I was the only Survivor left at maybe 4 gens. The 2nd almost went the same way, except 2 of us had the sense not to slow-walk up to the Ghost Face clearly standing opposite the hook and we managed to escape. I agree there should be greater disincentives for unfun play, but making every Killer player suffer because of the behaviour of (mostly) bad Killers exploiting the gullibility of (mostly) bad survivors isn't the way forward.
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This is why I didn't feel confident in putting in perks in basekit in the first place
Making DS basekit would spiral out of control... we'd be asking for a lot of other perks to be basekit
Just revert the 5 second stun and that'll be that
Force players to chose what perks to bring in not make everything basekit
Killers camp and Tunnel due to Survivors not making the game worth the 12 hooks
Base Gen regression also needs to be looked at now (also Gen times but that's another issue)
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I think you don t have any idea what you are talking about... What are you even playing seriously... What about just buff the slow down perks for Killers... Killers camp because of the gen rush nothing more... Congrats they increase 2 more seconds to make a generator... Whoaw... I said Before and i say it again, drinking while making changes or even reworks is not a good combo.... Survivors brain works like this (Killer is camping what a noob, thats not cool or fun at all). Well for Killer its not fun most of the trials after the game start 1 or 2 minutes passed and the Killer is still in a Middle of the first Chase and 2 generators pop up just like that... And please survivor mains don t come here with things like "Ho thats a skill problem) or (Just get better)... Because i have alot names to describe those survivor mains answers but BHVR don t allow it here since they are survivor mains too so... Stay with non sense survivor mains.
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I don't consider it tunneling if I happen to come across the same survivor and they make poor choices and go down.
Why can we see their blood trail if we aren't supposed to use it to find and kill them? Is that tunneling? Cos I thought it was part of the game. Same with scratch marks... how I see it, any survivor that loses calls any chase tunneling.
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yes devs are survivor mains. That's the reason why we get 6.1 killer's dream patch. Also why maps slowly loose pallet or two every 2 weeks. Or why haddonfield needed to be reworked, but midwitch is cool the way it is. Or why for last 2 years straight almost all patches (but boon) gave something to killers and very little to survivors. Or why incentives need to be on survivors all the time.
Sure. Devs are clearly survivor mains...
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Do you really play Dbd ? Are we talking about the same game or is there any other version of it ?!
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It isn’t a survivor failure if the killer downs one survivor then goes looking for the other. That has nothing to do with the survivor at all. That’s the killer playing like he’s going to win 20K if he gets a 4K. It’s so boring being slugged like that. I agree the killer should be punished / survivors should get some help for being slugging at end game when there’s 2 survivors left.
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This.
Slugging every match for the 4th kill is sort of a small pp compensation strategy. I don't care if the last survivor gets the hatch. Playing killers has never been easier than it is these days, and yet people still cry. I remember the old days when playing killers was really challenging. 90% of the replies here opposing my suggestions are from notorious tunnellers who are most likely camping and tunneling at 5 gens while playing against a baby squad. Against most teams, these styles of play are unnecessary.
I know it's hard to completely remove tunnels. 3 sec. DS basekit would encourage Killer to go for the other survivor though.
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Unfortunately, there is no point in arguing with such people. This makes as much sense as playing chess with a pigeon. Anyone who thinks that survivor are still far too strong should maybe switch sides. It's the same baby killer mentality that cried for months about the ruin rework until they finally realized it wasn't that bad after all. Same babykillers who are still crying because of CoH and BT basekit. These guys even think I'm survivor main because I'm pushing for this site right now.
I think @Sluzzy would agree.
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