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By design, Legion is the universally least fun killer in the game

ScottJund
ScottJund Member Posts: 1,118
in General Discussions

While I'll concede that Legion would be at least decent with normal killer movement speed, it still doesn't address the fact he is the least fun killer in the game for both sides. I originally thought just giving him normal movespeed would at least bandaid him but he's actually completely fundamentally broken. Let's look at the ways to play him and why they are all terrible for both killer and survivor.

Basically the gameplay flow is: find survivor -> feral when close enough -> get free hit -> look around for nearby survivors. If none nearby, hit original target again to bleed out more. If there are survivors in range, tag them until you can't tag anyone else, then hit the closest survivor again to drain frenzy.

From there, you have a few options. The first is go look for someone who is mending, and just chase them as a no-power 110% movespeed killer. As long as the survivors have a brain and used their 20 seconds of bleedout to get to even a remotely safe area, this is painful and unfun for the killer.

You can also just repeatedly hit the survivor, waiting for your power to cooldown (which can be aided by addons). This guarantees you will eventually down the survivor because there's not much you can do to avoid a feral Legion. This is painful and unfun for the survivor.

The other option is to follow a survivor backwards and just cheese the chase mechanics of the game until they either bleed out or get to low enough bleedout to be hit by an unavoidable frenzy hit. This is painful and unfun for the survivor and the killer.

Hell, even people that still like hiding / playing stealthily can't do that.

That's it. Those are the options Legion has to down people. All of them are immensely boring, and not even 115% movespeed will fix these issues. He is fundamentally badly designed for maximum unfun. The developers in charge of Legion absolutely do not understand this, as they thought removing the double stun would be a good fix, when in reality all it does is promote the unavoidable eventual downing of a survivor with no counterplay earlier.

The sad part is even though he can guarantee downs on survivors, he's still awful. It takes a decent chunk of time without addons to either cheese chase mechanic down or just repeat-power use down. This ensures: the survivor being chased eventually has no counterplay, which feels terrible. It ensures the Legion will still lose vs. a coordinated team who spread out and do not waste time healing (because there is no point), and it ensures that the other teammates not actively being chased are either bored mending or bored doing generators.

Every single thing about Legion is bad.

«13

Comments

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,464

    @ScottJund said:

    @ad19970 said:
    People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.
    With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

    The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.

    Actually considering how amazing Spirit is I had full faith they'd make Legion playable after the negative feedback. They've been doing really good lately until now.

    Understandable. But I feel Spirit wasn't fundamentally flawed in her design. It was clear that she just needed some buffs to become viable, and that they could do that without her becoming to frustrating to deal with as survivor cause you can still affect the chase against her, unlike Legion.
    I think we just have to accept that this new killer won't become viable. I'm disappointed personally, both in the killer and in the new killer perks, but I still think it's extreme what drama some people are pulling off because of this new killer. I mean mistakes happen, and with the many killers already in the game, them having to innovate again and again with every new killer had to lead to a poorly designed killer someday.
    A shame really though as I do like the concept of the new killer, just not the execution.

  • Delfador
    Delfador Member Posts: 2,552

    @thesuicidefox said:
    I think the problem is that his power is basically useless against injured survivors. Maybe if Deep Wounds applied with half the bar to injured survivors it would be better. Obviously there are other problems but that would help him a lot.

    The problem is not that. From a survivor's point, there is literally nothing you can do against this killer. He ignores game's mechanics.

    Nurse does the same thing but at least you can lose her or at the very least, she takes skill to use so not everybody plays her.

    OP has clearly explained everything, you can be the best survivor in the game but there is not much thing you can do to not go down. His power is not even strong anyway, it is just annoying for the survivors.

    Also an addon does what you want the legion to do which is completely broken. I think it was Frank's mixtape or something.

  • thesuicidefox
    thesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,223

    I haven't had problems losing Legions. It's a matter or taking advantage of the fatigue time and using pallets when injured/DW to force him to use his power so that he can't just hit you with a normal attack. Like yea if they REALLY wanted you and they are a decent killer it's hard to lose them but that's honestly true of any killer. Put Shadowborn and Stridor on Nurse and it becomes near impossible to get away from her too, and she's way more powerful than Legion is.

  • ItsYourBoyGuzma
    ItsYourBoyGuzma Member Posts: 797

    @ScottJund said:
    While I'll concede that Legion would be at least decent with normal killer movement speed, it still doesn't address the fact he is the least fun killer in the game for both sides. I originally thought just giving him normal movespeed would at least bandaid him but he's actually completely fundamentally broken. Let's look at the ways to play him and why they are all terrible for both killer and survivor.

    Basically the gameplay flow is: find survivor -> feral when close enough -> get free hit -> look around for nearby survivors. If none nearby, hit original target again to bleed out more. If there are survivors in range, tag them until you can't tag anyone else, then hit the closest survivor again to drain frenzy.

    From there, you have a few options. The first is go look for someone who is mending, and just chase them as a no-power 110% movespeed killer. As long as the survivors have a brain and used their 20 seconds of bleedout to get to even a remotely safe area, this is painful and unfun for the killer.

    You can also just repeatedly hit the survivor, waiting for your power to cooldown (which can be aided by addons). This guarantees you will eventually down the survivor because there's not much you can do to avoid a feral Legion. This is painful and unfun for the survivor.

    The other option is to follow a survivor backwards and just cheese the chase mechanics of the game until they either bleed out or get to low enough bleedout to be hit by an unavoidable frenzy hit. This is painful and unfun for the survivor and the killer.

    Hell, even people that still like hiding / playing stealthily can't do that.

    That's it. Those are the options Legion has to down people. All of them are immensely boring, and not even 115% movespeed will fix these issues. He is fundamentally badly designed for maximum unfun. The developers in charge of Legion absolutely do not understand this, as they thought removing the double stun would be a good fix, when in reality all it does is promote the unavoidable eventual downing of a survivor with no counterplay earlier.

    The sad part is even though he can guarantee downs on survivors, he's still awful. It takes a decent chunk of time without addons to either cheese chase mechanic down or just repeat-power use down. This ensures: the survivor being chased eventually has no counterplay, which feels terrible. It ensures the Legion will still lose vs. a coordinated team who spread out and do not waste time healing (because there is no point), and it ensures that the other teammates not actively being chased are either bored mending or bored doing generators.

    Every single thing about Legion is bad.

    100% this, just take chapter X away, i honestly feel sorry for anyone who buys this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17KmNrG9pE4

  • thesuicidefox
    thesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,223

    @ItsYourBoyGuzma said:
    we understand that, but id honestly i wouldve wished they'd be honest and be upfront and say.. "you know what we dont like this chapter and will work on it more. Sorry but it'll have to be pushed back, there's a lot of idea going on and we need to just sit and think on some things a bit longer."

    This isn't actually an option though. They have a schedule and deadlines, you can't just say "it's not coming". It's actually better to release it on schedule and fix it later.

    As far as the godfather, Mr. Miyamoto... those comments were made in a different time, when monthly patches weren't an option. You release a game for SNES or something, yea that's it FOREVER. But in 2018 things can change. This game is evidence of that, just look at videos from 2 years ago. It's almost a completely different game.

  • ItsYourBoyGuzma
    ItsYourBoyGuzma Member Posts: 797

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @ItsYourBoyGuzma said:
    we understand that, but id honestly i wouldve wished they'd be honest and be upfront and say.. "you know what we dont like this chapter and will work on it more. Sorry but it'll have to be pushed back, there's a lot of idea going on and we need to just sit and think on some things a bit longer."

    This isn't actually an option though. They have a schedule and deadlines, you can't just say "it's not coming". It's actually better to release it on schedule and fix it later.

    As far as the godfather, Mr. Miyamoto... those comments were made in a different time, when monthly patches weren't an option. You release a game for SNES or something, yea that's it FOREVER. But in 2018 things can change. This game is evidence of that, just look at videos from 2 years ago. It's almost a completely different game.

    rules are meant to be broken

  • Iceman
    Iceman Member Posts: 1,457
    ItsYourBoyGuzma said:

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @ItsYourBoyGuzma said:
    we understand that, but id honestly i wouldve wished they'd be honest and be upfront and say.. "you know what we dont like this chapter and will work on it more. Sorry but it'll have to be pushed back, there's a lot of idea going on and we need to just sit and think on some things a bit longer."

    This isn't actually an option though. They have a schedule and deadlines, you can't just say "it's not coming". It's actually better to release it on schedule and fix it later.

    As far as the godfather, Mr. Miyamoto... those comments were made in a different time, when monthly patches weren't an option. You release a game for SNES or something, yea that's it FOREVER. But in 2018 things can change. This game is evidence of that, just look at videos from 2 years ago. It's almost a completely different game.

    rules are meant to be broken

    Ha! There would have been a riot on how the devs are idiots and can never keep their promise. You are not able to please everyone. 
  • Carpemortum
    Carpemortum Member Posts: 4,506
    Incarnate said:

    @ad19970 said:
    People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.
    With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

    The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.

    No, we do not, because so many of us in the community have been providing tons of valuable feedback, both before, during and after the PTBs, but instead of taking what we say seriously, they take it with "a grain of salt" and put their own twist on it. Quite many, including me said several times that the legion really needs a rework and should not be released as is. When we voice our concerns, like for instance during a Q&A we all know what Cote will say, we should all go play some civilization for a refreshing change, because that is exactly how seriously he takes our concerns - like not at all. Who's the same one who thinks the killers should be fun and don't need to be viable. So once they actually begin to take our concerns serously, then we can begin to cut them some slack. As I've said before, they should not release content that is not balanced or not ready to be released, because it wrecks all kinds of havoc in doing so. You say they did well with so many killers before, well that certainly depends on perspective, and instead of actually fixing the issues they apply bandaid solutions.

    There are also many in the community who dont have their panties in a twist over legion, as they are a viable killer. 

    They're not no. 1 killer, but they're not as trash as everyone wants them to be.
  • MhhBurgers
    MhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,758

    @Carpemortum said:
    ScottJund said:

    While I'll concede that Legion would be at least decent with normal killer movement speed, it still doesn't address the fact he is the least fun killer in the game for both sides. I originally thought just giving him normal movespeed would at least bandaid him but he's actually completely fundamentally broken. Let's look at the ways to play him and why they are all terrible for both killer and survivor.

    Basically the gameplay flow is: find survivor -> feral when close enough -> get free hit -> look around for nearby survivors. If none nearby, hit original target again to bleed out more. If there are survivors in range, tag them until you can't tag anyone else, then hit the closest survivor again to drain frenzy.

    From there, you have a few options. The first is go look for someone who is mending, and just chase them as a no-power 110% movespeed killer. As long as the survivors have a brain and used their 20 seconds of bleedout to get to even a remotely safe area, this is painful and unfun for the killer.

    You can also just repeatedly hit the survivor, waiting for your power to cooldown (which can be aided by addons). This guarantees you will eventually down the survivor because there's not much you can do to avoid a feral Legion. This is painful and unfun for the survivor.

    The other option is to follow a survivor backwards and just cheese the chase mechanics of the game until they either bleed out or get to low enough bleedout to be hit by an unavoidable frenzy hit. This is painful and unfun for the survivor and the killer.

    Hell, even people that still like hiding / playing stealthily can't do that.

    That's it. Those are the options Legion has to down people. All of them are immensely boring, and not even 115% movespeed will fix these issues. He is fundamentally badly designed for maximum unfun. The developers in charge of Legion absolutely do not understand this, as they thought removing the double stun would be a good fix, when in reality all it does is promote the unavoidable eventual downing of a survivor with no counterplay earlier.

    The sad part is even though he can guarantee downs on survivors, he's still awful. It takes a decent chunk of time without addons to either cheese chase mechanic down or just repeat-power use down. This ensures: the survivor being chased eventually has no counterplay, which feels terrible. It ensures the Legion will still lose vs. a coordinated team who spread out and do not waste time healing (because there is no point), and it ensures that the other teammates not actively being chased are either bored mending or bored doing generators.

    Every single thing about Legion is bad.

    I enjoy the legion. They're fun to play as and against imo. Such hate lately. If its not your killer so be it. Dont try to ######### in my sandwich

    There's people who listen to 6ix9ine, still doesn't make it legit music.

    Just because you like something doesn't mean it's remotely good.

  • ScottJund
    ScottJund Member Posts: 1,118

    @Carpemortum said:
    ScottJund said:

    While I'll concede that Legion would be at least decent with normal killer movement speed, it still doesn't address the fact he is the least fun killer in the game for both sides. I originally thought just giving him normal movespeed would at least bandaid him but he's actually completely fundamentally broken. Let's look at the ways to play him and why they are all terrible for both killer and survivor.

    Basically the gameplay flow is: find survivor -> feral when close enough -> get free hit -> look around for nearby survivors. If none nearby, hit original target again to bleed out more. If there are survivors in range, tag them until you can't tag anyone else, then hit the closest survivor again to drain frenzy.

    From there, you have a few options. The first is go look for someone who is mending, and just chase them as a no-power 110% movespeed killer. As long as the survivors have a brain and used their 20 seconds of bleedout to get to even a remotely safe area, this is painful and unfun for the killer.

    You can also just repeatedly hit the survivor, waiting for your power to cooldown (which can be aided by addons). This guarantees you will eventually down the survivor because there's not much you can do to avoid a feral Legion. This is painful and unfun for the survivor.

    The other option is to follow a survivor backwards and just cheese the chase mechanics of the game until they either bleed out or get to low enough bleedout to be hit by an unavoidable frenzy hit. This is painful and unfun for the survivor and the killer.

    Hell, even people that still like hiding / playing stealthily can't do that.

    That's it. Those are the options Legion has to down people. All of them are immensely boring, and not even 115% movespeed will fix these issues. He is fundamentally badly designed for maximum unfun. The developers in charge of Legion absolutely do not understand this, as they thought removing the double stun would be a good fix, when in reality all it does is promote the unavoidable eventual downing of a survivor with no counterplay earlier.

    The sad part is even though he can guarantee downs on survivors, he's still awful. It takes a decent chunk of time without addons to either cheese chase mechanic down or just repeat-power use down. This ensures: the survivor being chased eventually has no counterplay, which feels terrible. It ensures the Legion will still lose vs. a coordinated team who spread out and do not waste time healing (because there is no point), and it ensures that the other teammates not actively being chased are either bored mending or bored doing generators.

    Every single thing about Legion is bad.

    I enjoy the legion. They're fun to play as and against imo. Such hate lately. If its not your killer so be it. Dont try to ######### in my sandwich

    Can you find faults in any of my arguments, though?

  • Incarnate
    Incarnate Member Posts: 677

    @Carpemortum said:
    Incarnate said:

    @ad19970 said:

    People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.

    With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

    The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.

    No, we do not, because so many of us in the community have been providing tons of valuable feedback, both before, during and after the PTBs, but instead of taking what we say seriously, they take it with "a grain of salt" and put their own twist on it. Quite many, including me said several times that the legion really needs a rework and should not be released as is. When we voice our concerns, like for instance during a Q&A we all know what Cote will say, we should all go play some civilization for a refreshing change, because that is exactly how seriously he takes our concerns - like not at all. Who's the same one who thinks the killers should be fun and don't need to be viable. So once they actually begin to take our concerns serously, then we can begin to cut them some slack. As I've said before, they should not release content that is not balanced or not ready to be released, because it wrecks all kinds of havoc in doing so. You say they did well with so many killers before, well that certainly depends on perspective, and instead of actually fixing the issues they apply bandaid solutions.

    There are also many in the community who dont have their panties in a twist over legion, as they are a viable killer.

    They're not no. 1 killer, but they're not as trash as everyone wants them to be.

    Yes there are some who for very odd reasons fervorously keep defending the legion, claiming that the legion is strong and viable, when it's glaringly obvious that the legion is now by far DbDs current weakest killer, and that legion is non-viable due to being the current weakest killer. I get you want the legion to viable and better, but legion is just not there yet, far from it. And I don't want the legion to be trash, but unfortunately that doesn't change anything.

    Besides, people also being fed up with BHVR not taking our concerns, feedback and suggestion on how to fix seriously, that they're only taking it with "a grain of salt" and putting their own twist on things. And that is quite understandable, because this is something that keeps happening recurringly.

  • Carpemortum
    Carpemortum Member Posts: 4,506
    Incarnate said:

    @Carpemortum said:
    Incarnate said:

    @ad19970 said:

    People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.

    With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

    The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.

    No, we do not, because so many of us in the community have been providing tons of valuable feedback, both before, during and after the PTBs, but instead of taking what we say seriously, they take it with "a grain of salt" and put their own twist on it. Quite many, including me said several times that the legion really needs a rework and should not be released as is. When we voice our concerns, like for instance during a Q&A we all know what Cote will say, we should all go play some civilization for a refreshing change, because that is exactly how seriously he takes our concerns - like not at all. Who's the same one who thinks the killers should be fun and don't need to be viable. So once they actually begin to take our concerns serously, then we can begin to cut them some slack. As I've said before, they should not release content that is not balanced or not ready to be released, because it wrecks all kinds of havoc in doing so. You say they did well with so many killers before, well that certainly depends on perspective, and instead of actually fixing the issues they apply bandaid solutions.

    There are also many in the community who dont have their panties in a twist over legion, as they are a viable killer.

    They're not no. 1 killer, but they're not as trash as everyone wants them to be.

    Yes there are some who for very odd reasons fervorously keep defending the legion, claiming that the legion is strong and viable, when it's glaringly obvious that the legion is now by far DbDs current weakest killer, and that legion is non-viable due to being the current weakest killer. I get you want the legion to viable and better, but legion is just not there yet, far from it. And I don't want the legion to be trash, but unfortunately that doesn't change anything.

    Besides, people also being fed up with BHVR not taking our concerns, feedback and suggestion on how to fix seriously, that they're only taking it with "a grain of salt" and putting their own twist on things. And that is quite understandable, because this is something that keeps happening recurringly.

    Go watch tru3  play some legion. One person at least tried and shows legion is viable. Just need synergy.
  • Carpemortum
    Carpemortum Member Posts: 4,506
    ScottJund said:

    @Carpemortum said:
    ScottJund said:

    While I'll concede that Legion would be at least decent with normal killer movement speed, it still doesn't address the fact he is the least fun killer in the game for both sides. I originally thought just giving him normal movespeed would at least bandaid him but he's actually completely fundamentally broken. Let's look at the ways to play him and why they are all terrible for both killer and survivor.

    Basically the gameplay flow is: find survivor -> feral when close enough -> get free hit -> look around for nearby survivors. If none nearby, hit original target again to bleed out more. If there are survivors in range, tag them until you can't tag anyone else, then hit the closest survivor again to drain frenzy.

    From there, you have a few options. The first is go look for someone who is mending, and just chase them as a no-power 110% movespeed killer. As long as the survivors have a brain and used their 20 seconds of bleedout to get to even a remotely safe area, this is painful and unfun for the killer.

    You can also just repeatedly hit the survivor, waiting for your power to cooldown (which can be aided by addons). This guarantees you will eventually down the survivor because there's not much you can do to avoid a feral Legion. This is painful and unfun for the survivor.

    The other option is to follow a survivor backwards and just cheese the chase mechanics of the game until they either bleed out or get to low enough bleedout to be hit by an unavoidable frenzy hit. This is painful and unfun for the survivor and the killer.

    Hell, even people that still like hiding / playing stealthily can't do that.

    That's it. Those are the options Legion has to down people. All of them are immensely boring, and not even 115% movespeed will fix these issues. He is fundamentally badly designed for maximum unfun. The developers in charge of Legion absolutely do not understand this, as they thought removing the double stun would be a good fix, when in reality all it does is promote the unavoidable eventual downing of a survivor with no counterplay earlier.

    The sad part is even though he can guarantee downs on survivors, he's still awful. It takes a decent chunk of time without addons to either cheese chase mechanic down or just repeat-power use down. This ensures: the survivor being chased eventually has no counterplay, which feels terrible. It ensures the Legion will still lose vs. a coordinated team who spread out and do not waste time healing (because there is no point), and it ensures that the other teammates not actively being chased are either bored mending or bored doing generators.

    Every single thing about Legion is bad.

    I enjoy the legion. They're fun to play as and against imo. Such hate lately. If its not your killer so be it. Dont try to ######### in my sandwich

    Can you find faults in any of my arguments, though?

    Yes? For one you say it's not fun for anyone, which is false. 

    Are we defining them by viable? Or fun? Because you try to argue both. 

    You can tag one, two, three people and then chase. Use frenzy to catch and mind game. Make them waste pallets. Any number of things to apply SPLIT PRESSURE and buy time, which as you claim is an issue with his power. Time to down ratio. 

    So while I could spend 20 mins and write out multiple scenarios countering what you said, it's a waste of time. Go watch tru3 or anyone else who isnt just ######### talking legion play them. Theres many options and builds. It's just not the top tier killer or exactly what the community asked for so everyone jumps on the "legion is trash" train.


  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,616

    @ScottJund said:

    @Carpemortum said:
    ScottJund said:

    While I'll concede that Legion would be at least decent with normal killer movement speed, it still doesn't address the fact he is the least fun killer in the game for both sides. I originally thought just giving him normal movespeed would at least bandaid him but he's actually completely fundamentally broken. Let's look at the ways to play him and why they are all terrible for both killer and survivor.

    Basically the gameplay flow is: find survivor -> feral when close enough -> get free hit -> look around for nearby survivors. If none nearby, hit original target again to bleed out more. If there are survivors in range, tag them until you can't tag anyone else, then hit the closest survivor again to drain frenzy.

    From there, you have a few options. The first is go look for someone who is mending, and just chase them as a no-power 110% movespeed killer. As long as the survivors have a brain and used their 20 seconds of bleedout to get to even a remotely safe area, this is painful and unfun for the killer.

    You can also just repeatedly hit the survivor, waiting for your power to cooldown (which can be aided by addons). This guarantees you will eventually down the survivor because there's not much you can do to avoid a feral Legion. This is painful and unfun for the survivor.

    The other option is to follow a survivor backwards and just cheese the chase mechanics of the game until they either bleed out or get to low enough bleedout to be hit by an unavoidable frenzy hit. This is painful and unfun for the survivor and the killer.

    Hell, even people that still like hiding / playing stealthily can't do that.

    That's it. Those are the options Legion has to down people. All of them are immensely boring, and not even 115% movespeed will fix these issues. He is fundamentally badly designed for maximum unfun. The developers in charge of Legion absolutely do not understand this, as they thought removing the double stun would be a good fix, when in reality all it does is promote the unavoidable eventual downing of a survivor with no counterplay earlier.

    The sad part is even though he can guarantee downs on survivors, he's still awful. It takes a decent chunk of time without addons to either cheese chase mechanic down or just repeat-power use down. This ensures: the survivor being chased eventually has no counterplay, which feels terrible. It ensures the Legion will still lose vs. a coordinated team who spread out and do not waste time healing (because there is no point), and it ensures that the other teammates not actively being chased are either bored mending or bored doing generators.

    Every single thing about Legion is bad.

    I enjoy the legion. They're fun to play as and against imo. Such hate lately. If its not your killer so be it. Dont try to ######### in my sandwich

    Can you find faults in any of my arguments, though?

    Lol sorry, i have nothing to do with this conversation.
    Just laughed cause i thought you said Vaults instead.
    I'm like: No, there's no /|___|\ in your comment.

  • mher1101
    mher1101 Member Posts: 1

    @Carpemortum said:
    Incarnate said:

    @Carpemortum said:

    Incarnate said:

    @ad19970 said:

People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.

With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.



No, we do not, because so many of us in the community have been providing tons of valuable feedback, both before, during and after the PTBs, but instead of taking what we say seriously, they take it with "a grain of salt" and put their own twist on it. Quite many, including me said several times that the legion really needs a rework and should not be released as is. When we voice our concerns, like for instance during a Q&A we all know what Cote will say, we should all go play some civilization for a refreshing change, because that is exactly how seriously he takes our concerns - like not at all. Who's the same one who thinks the killers should be fun and don't need to be viable. So once they actually begin to take our concerns serously, then we can begin to cut them some slack. As I've said before, they should not release content that is not balanced or not ready to be released, because it wrecks all kinds of havoc in doing so. You say they did well with so many killers before, well that certainly depends on perspective, and instead of actually fixing the issues they apply bandaid solutions.



There are also many in the community who dont have their panties in a twist over legion, as they are a viable killer.

    They're not no. 1 killer, but they're not as trash as everyone wants them to be.

    Yes there are some who for very odd reasons fervorously keep defending the legion, claiming that the legion is strong and viable, when it's glaringly obvious that the legion is now by far DbDs current weakest killer, and that legion is non-viable due to being the current weakest killer. I get you want the legion to viable and better, but legion is just not there yet, far from it. And I don't want the legion to be trash, but unfortunately that doesn't change anything.

    Besides, people also being fed up with BHVR not taking our concerns, feedback and suggestion on how to fix seriously, that they're only taking it with "a grain of salt" and putting their own twist on things. And that is quite understandable, because this is something that keeps happening recurringly.

    Go watch tru3  play some legion. One person at least tried and shows legion is viable. Just need synergy.

    He is literally using purple add-ons basically every game. That's not balanced, in fact those add-ons likely need a nerf.

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,741

    If you want to use all 4 Legion members, Legion is also the most expensive killer, as you have to literally grind for weeks or buy the character ~3 times.

  • MhhBurgers
    MhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,758

    @mher1101 said:

    @Carpemortum said:
    Incarnate said:

    @Carpemortum said:

    Incarnate said:

    @ad19970 said:

People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.

With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.



No, we do not, because so many of us in the community have been providing tons of valuable feedback, both before, during and after the PTBs, but instead of taking what we say seriously, they take it with "a grain of salt" and put their own twist on it. Quite many, including me said several times that the legion really needs a rework and should not be released as is. When we voice our concerns, like for instance during a Q&A we all know what Cote will say, we should all go play some civilization for a refreshing change, because that is exactly how seriously he takes our concerns - like not at all. Who's the same one who thinks the killers should be fun and don't need to be viable. So once they actually begin to take our concerns serously, then we can begin to cut them some slack. As I've said before, they should not release content that is not balanced or not ready to be released, because it wrecks all kinds of havoc in doing so. You say they did well with so many killers before, well that certainly depends on perspective, and instead of actually fixing the issues they apply bandaid solutions.



There are also many in the community who dont have their panties in a twist over legion, as they are a viable killer.

    They're not no. 1 killer, but they're not as trash as everyone wants them to be.

    Yes there are some who for very odd reasons fervorously keep defending the legion, claiming that the legion is strong and viable, when it's glaringly obvious that the legion is now by far DbDs current weakest killer, and that legion is non-viable due to being the current weakest killer. I get you want the legion to viable and better, but legion is just not there yet, far from it. And I don't want the legion to be trash, but unfortunately that doesn't change anything.

    Besides, people also being fed up with BHVR not taking our concerns, feedback and suggestion on how to fix seriously, that they're only taking it with "a grain of salt" and putting their own twist on things. And that is quite understandable, because this is something that keeps happening recurringly.

    Go watch tru3  play some legion. One person at least tried and shows legion is viable. Just need synergy.

    He is literally using purple add-ons basically every game. That's not balanced, in fact those add-ons likely need a nerf.

    Let's not forget most of his games were KYF which doesn't say ANYTHING.

  • Incarnate
    Incarnate Member Posts: 677

    @Carpemortum said:
    Incarnate said:

    @Carpemortum said:

    Incarnate said:

    @ad19970 said:

People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.

With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.



No, we do not, because so many of us in the community have been providing tons of valuable feedback, both before, during and after the PTBs, but instead of taking what we say seriously, they take it with "a grain of salt" and put their own twist on it. Quite many, including me said several times that the legion really needs a rework and should not be released as is. When we voice our concerns, like for instance during a Q&A we all know what Cote will say, we should all go play some civilization for a refreshing change, because that is exactly how seriously he takes our concerns - like not at all. Who's the same one who thinks the killers should be fun and don't need to be viable. So once they actually begin to take our concerns serously, then we can begin to cut them some slack. As I've said before, they should not release content that is not balanced or not ready to be released, because it wrecks all kinds of havoc in doing so. You say they did well with so many killers before, well that certainly depends on perspective, and instead of actually fixing the issues they apply bandaid solutions.



There are also many in the community who dont have their panties in a twist over legion, as they are a viable killer.

    They're not no. 1 killer, but they're not as trash as everyone wants them to be.

    Yes there are some who for very odd reasons fervorously keep defending the legion, claiming that the legion is strong and viable, when it's glaringly obvious that the legion is now by far DbDs current weakest killer, and that legion is non-viable due to being the current weakest killer. I get you want the legion to viable and better, but legion is just not there yet, far from it. And I don't want the legion to be trash, but unfortunately that doesn't change anything.

    Besides, people also being fed up with BHVR not taking our concerns, feedback and suggestion on how to fix seriously, that they're only taking it with "a grain of salt" and putting their own twist on things. And that is quite understandable, because this is something that keeps happening recurringly.

    Go watch tru3  play some legion. One person at least tried and shows legion is viable. Just need synergy.

    I did play legion in the PTB, and I did also see some off Tru3's videos about legion where for most of the times he was using very rare addons, which doesn't say anything about if the killers balanced or not, and believe or not, those addons are likely going to be nerfed, it says nothing about the legion being viable or being balanced for that matter. There a lot of things that the legion needs to be viable, and they're most likely have to rework it's power.

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,464

    @Incarnate said:

    @ad19970 said:
    People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.
    With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

    The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.

    No, we do not, because so many of us in the community have been providing tons of valuable feedback, both before, during and after the PTBs, but instead of taking what we say seriously, they take it with "a grain of salt" and put their own twist on it. Quite many, including me said several times that the legion really needs a rework and should not be released as is. When we voice our concerns, like for instance during a Q&A we all know what Cote will say, we should all go play some civilization for a refreshing change, because that is exactly how seriously he takes our concerns - like not at all. Who's the same one who thinks the killers should be fun and don't need to be viable. So once they actually begin to take our concerns serously, then we can begin to cut them some slack. As I've said before, they should not release content that is not balanced or not ready to be released, because it wrecks all kinds of havoc in doing so. You say they did well with so many killers before, well that certainly depends on perspective, and instead of actually fixing the issues they apply bandaid solutions.

    Reworking a killer takes time, they can't just snap with the finger every time they want to add a new change to a killer. There's a lot of work that goes into designing a killer, and they also have a timed schedule. As far as I know, the next killer is scheduled for March, so they need to start working on that killer as well.
    Also, I'm pretty sure the devs listened to the community, but it's not that easy to create a perfectly balanced killer. Most suggestions were bad if you ask me, and they probably came to the same conclusion.
    Being unhappy about the killer and voicing your opinion is totally fine. I just don't get how some people can be so dramatic about it, it's a freaking playable character in a video game. I've seen enough people say that the devs only care about survivors again because of the newest patch, which is ridiculous considering the big amount of buffs killers have received with the last patches.

  • ScottJund
    ScottJund Member Posts: 1,118

    @Carpemortum said:
    ScottJund said:

    @Carpemortum said:

    ScottJund said:

    While I'll concede that Legion would be at least decent with normal killer movement speed, it still doesn't address the fact he is the least fun killer in the game for both sides. I originally thought just giving him normal movespeed would at least bandaid him but he's actually completely fundamentally broken. Let's look at the ways to play him and why they are all terrible for both killer and survivor.

Basically the gameplay flow is: find survivor -> feral when close enough -> get free hit -> look around for nearby survivors. If none nearby, hit original target again to bleed out more. If there are survivors in range, tag them until you can't tag anyone else, then hit the closest survivor again to drain frenzy.

From there, you have a few options. The first is go look for someone who is mending, and just chase them as a no-power 110% movespeed killer. As long as the survivors have a brain and used their 20 seconds of bleedout to get to even a remotely safe area, this is painful and unfun for the killer.

You can also just repeatedly hit the survivor, waiting for your power to cooldown (which can be aided by addons). This guarantees you will eventually down the survivor because there's not much you can do to avoid a feral Legion. This is painful and unfun for the survivor.

The other option is to follow a survivor backwards and just cheese the chase mechanics of the game until they either bleed out or get to low enough bleedout to be hit by an unavoidable frenzy hit. This is painful and unfun for the survivor and the killer.

Hell, even people that still like hiding / playing stealthily can't do that.

That's it. Those are the options Legion has to down people. All of them are immensely boring, and not even 115% movespeed will fix these issues. He is fundamentally badly designed for maximum unfun. The developers in charge of Legion absolutely do not understand this, as they thought removing the double stun would be a good fix, when in reality all it does is promote the unavoidable eventual downing of a survivor with no counterplay earlier.

The sad part is even though he can guarantee downs on survivors, he's still awful. It takes a decent chunk of time without addons to either cheese chase mechanic down or just repeat-power use down. This ensures: the survivor being chased eventually has no counterplay, which feels terrible. It ensures the Legion will still lose vs. a coordinated team who spread out and do not waste time healing (because there is no point), and it ensures that the other teammates not actively being chased are either bored mending or bored doing generators.

Every single thing about Legion is bad.

    I enjoy the legion. They're fun to play as and against imo. Such hate lately. If its not your killer so be it. Dont try to ######### in my sandwich

    Can you find faults in any of my arguments, though?

    Yes? For one you say it's not fun for anyone, which is false. 

    Are we defining them by viable? Or fun? Because you try to argue both. 

    You can tag one, two, three people and then chase. Use frenzy to catch and mind game. Make them waste pallets. Any number of things to apply SPLIT PRESSURE and buy time, which as you claim is an issue with his power. Time to down ratio. 

    So while I could spend 20 mins and write out multiple scenarios countering what you said, it's a waste of time. Go watch tru3 or anyone else who isnt just ######### talking legion play them. Theres many options and builds. It's just not the top tier killer or exactly what the community asked for so everyone jumps on the "legion is trash" train.

    You can tag three people if the opposing team is braindead and doesn't know how Legion works. Any remote splitting up and you are even more useless than you currently are as Legion. You barely buy any pressure because the second you tag someone and run to the next person, the first person is immediately mending. You don't even gain time advantage because you spend time going for the next guy.

  • MhhBurgers
    MhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,758

    The mending action needs to take like 16 seconds and double if you've already been wounded by him, this still wouldn't change the fact that he's fundamentally broken, while nurse is not hard to master you still don't see her every game because she's stressful to play, legion is a walk in the park and would break the game.

  • sorrowen
    sorrowen Member Posts: 742

    How mending isn't healing is beyond me its literally healing...

  • ReneAensland
    ReneAensland Member Posts: 838

    @Incarnate said:

    @Carpemortum said:
    Incarnate said:

    @Carpemortum said:

    Incarnate said:

    @ad19970 said:

People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.

With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.



No, we do not, because so many of us in the community have been providing tons of valuable feedback, both before, during and after the PTBs, but instead of taking what we say seriously, they take it with "a grain of salt" and put their own twist on it. Quite many, including me said several times that the legion really needs a rework and should not be released as is. When we voice our concerns, like for instance during a Q&A we all know what Cote will say, we should all go play some civilization for a refreshing change, because that is exactly how seriously he takes our concerns - like not at all. Who's the same one who thinks the killers should be fun and don't need to be viable. So once they actually begin to take our concerns serously, then we can begin to cut them some slack. As I've said before, they should not release content that is not balanced or not ready to be released, because it wrecks all kinds of havoc in doing so. You say they did well with so many killers before, well that certainly depends on perspective, and instead of actually fixing the issues they apply bandaid solutions.



There are also many in the community who dont have their panties in a twist over legion, as they are a viable killer.

    They're not no. 1 killer, but they're not as trash as everyone wants them to be.

    Yes there are some who for very odd reasons fervorously keep defending the legion, claiming that the legion is strong and viable, when it's glaringly obvious that the legion is now by far DbDs current weakest killer, and that legion is non-viable due to being the current weakest killer. I get you want the legion to viable and better, but legion is just not there yet, far from it. And I don't want the legion to be trash, but unfortunately that doesn't change anything.

    Besides, people also being fed up with BHVR not taking our concerns, feedback and suggestion on how to fix seriously, that they're only taking it with "a grain of salt" and putting their own twist on things. And that is quite understandable, because this is something that keeps happening recurringly.

    Go watch tru3  play some legion. One person at least tried and shows legion is viable. Just need synergy.

    I did play legion in the PTB, and I did also see some off Tru3's videos about legion where for most of the times he was using very rare addons, which doesn't say anything about if the killers balanced or not, and believe or not, those addons are likely going to be nerfed, it says nothing about the legion being viable or being balanced for that matter. There a lot of things that the legion needs to be viable, and they're most likely have to rework it's power.

    Tru3 stated Legion might be the worst killer.

  • ScottJund
    ScottJund Member Posts: 1,118

    @ReneAensland said:

    @Incarnate said:

    @Carpemortum said:
    Incarnate said:

    @Carpemortum said:

    Incarnate said:

    @ad19970 said:

People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.

With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.



No, we do not, because so many of us in the community have been providing tons of valuable feedback, both before, during and after the PTBs, but instead of taking what we say seriously, they take it with "a grain of salt" and put their own twist on it. Quite many, including me said several times that the legion really needs a rework and should not be released as is. When we voice our concerns, like for instance during a Q&A we all know what Cote will say, we should all go play some civilization for a refreshing change, because that is exactly how seriously he takes our concerns - like not at all. Who's the same one who thinks the killers should be fun and don't need to be viable. So once they actually begin to take our concerns serously, then we can begin to cut them some slack. As I've said before, they should not release content that is not balanced or not ready to be released, because it wrecks all kinds of havoc in doing so. You say they did well with so many killers before, well that certainly depends on perspective, and instead of actually fixing the issues they apply bandaid solutions.



There are also many in the community who dont have their panties in a twist over legion, as they are a viable killer.

    They're not no. 1 killer, but they're not as trash as everyone wants them to be.

    Yes there are some who for very odd reasons fervorously keep defending the legion, claiming that the legion is strong and viable, when it's glaringly obvious that the legion is now by far DbDs current weakest killer, and that legion is non-viable due to being the current weakest killer. I get you want the legion to viable and better, but legion is just not there yet, far from it. And I don't want the legion to be trash, but unfortunately that doesn't change anything.

    Besides, people also being fed up with BHVR not taking our concerns, feedback and suggestion on how to fix seriously, that they're only taking it with "a grain of salt" and putting their own twist on things. And that is quite understandable, because this is something that keeps happening recurringly.

    Go watch tru3  play some legion. One person at least tried and shows legion is viable. Just need synergy.

    I did play legion in the PTB, and I did also see some off Tru3's videos about legion where for most of the times he was using very rare addons, which doesn't say anything about if the killers balanced or not, and believe or not, those addons are likely going to be nerfed, it says nothing about the legion being viable or being balanced for that matter. There a lot of things that the legion needs to be viable, and they're most likely have to rework it's power.

    Tru3 stated Legion might be the worst killer.

    I wouldn't bother. These people's criteria of "this killer is good is" "this person did well with this killer sometimes."

  • Incarnate
    Incarnate Member Posts: 677

    @ReneAensland said:

    @Incarnate said:

    @Carpemortum said:
    Incarnate said:

    @Carpemortum said:

    Incarnate said:

    @ad19970 said:

People need to give the devs a break though. They did well with so many of the killer designs before, and they are forced to constantly think of new ideas for the killer. So I can understand why'd they screw up a killer once.

With that said, I 100% agree with you on this post. Exactly why I always knew they couldn't buff him in any considerable way. Your post perfectly summarizes what's wrong with The Legion and why he can't be fixed. Guess we have to just move on and hope for a better killer design next time.

The only way to make Legion viable without making survivors quit the game is to rework him. He needs a rework more urgently than Freddy, sadly.



No, we do not, because so many of us in the community have been providing tons of valuable feedback, both before, during and after the PTBs, but instead of taking what we say seriously, they take it with "a grain of salt" and put their own twist on it. Quite many, including me said several times that the legion really needs a rework and should not be released as is. When we voice our concerns, like for instance during a Q&A we all know what Cote will say, we should all go play some civilization for a refreshing change, because that is exactly how seriously he takes our concerns - like not at all. Who's the same one who thinks the killers should be fun and don't need to be viable. So once they actually begin to take our concerns serously, then we can begin to cut them some slack. As I've said before, they should not release content that is not balanced or not ready to be released, because it wrecks all kinds of havoc in doing so. You say they did well with so many killers before, well that certainly depends on perspective, and instead of actually fixing the issues they apply bandaid solutions.



There are also many in the community who dont have their panties in a twist over legion, as they are a viable killer.

    They're not no. 1 killer, but they're not as trash as everyone wants them to be.

    Yes there are some who for very odd reasons fervorously keep defending the legion, claiming that the legion is strong and viable, when it's glaringly obvious that the legion is now by far DbDs current weakest killer, and that legion is non-viable due to being the current weakest killer. I get you want the legion to viable and better, but legion is just not there yet, far from it. And I don't want the legion to be trash, but unfortunately that doesn't change anything.

    Besides, people also being fed up with BHVR not taking our concerns, feedback and suggestion on how to fix seriously, that they're only taking it with "a grain of salt" and putting their own twist on things. And that is quite understandable, because this is something that keeps happening recurringly.

    Go watch tru3  play some legion. One person at least tried and shows legion is viable. Just need synergy.

    I did play legion in the PTB, and I did also see some off Tru3's videos about legion where for most of the times he was using very rare addons, which doesn't say anything about if the killers balanced or not, and believe or not, those addons are likely going to be nerfed, it says nothing about the legion being viable or being balanced for that matter. There a lot of things that the legion needs to be viable, and they're most likely have to rework it's power.

    Tru3 stated Legion might be the worst killer.

    Yes he did, I don't know if he has changed his mind at this point, but I seriously doubt it.
    I agree, the legion is by far the weakest killer in DbD currently, and I have not said anything that should indicate otherwise.

  • Condorloco_26
    Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    I don't know man, it really looks like Legion was designed for new players only, from both sides. Both killers and survivors will have somewhat a chance at "success" and "fun" as survs won't go down like flies (as usually happens at ranks 15 - 20) and killers will eventually get 2 or 3k's just because there will be a lot of hiding and fooling around involved, and much longer games as a result.

  • MhhBurgers
    MhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,758

    Play Legion.

    Then play literally anything else.

    It's night and day.

  • SmokePotion
    SmokePotion Member Posts: 1,089
    edited December 2018

    @ScottJund said:
    " a bunch of stuff that was wrong"

    You are straight up using him wrong.
    I'm using him at rank 1-2 and winning against SWF groups.
    Just from reading your process I can see you are using him wrong

  • ScottJund
    ScottJund Member Posts: 1,118

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:
    " a bunch of stuff that was wrong"

    You are straight up using him wrong.

    Oh I love this part. Please enlighten me on the correct way to use Legion.

  • SmokePotion
    SmokePotion Member Posts: 1,089

    @ScottJund said:

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:
    " a bunch of stuff that was wrong"

    You are straight up using him wrong.

    Oh I love this part. Please enlighten me on the correct way to use Legion.

    It's easy. Go to where survivors are, freny, hit them, when you are on the last person, hit him twice, stun out of frenzy.

    then, you let them leave. Count to 3, the chase ends, they bleed out FAST, you follow the blood, try not to start chase to soon, pop frenzy, get hook

  • MhhBurgers
    MhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,758

    @ScottJund said:

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:
    " a bunch of stuff that was wrong"

    You are straight up using him wrong.

    Oh I love this part. Please enlighten me on the correct way to use Legion.

    In b4 needs to hit every survivor and run thanatophobia, completely ignores the fact that you only get more than 2 tagged survivors if the survivors don't know how to play around him yet, also ignores the fact that mend takes about as much time as it takes you to wound 2 survivors.

  • SmokePotion
    SmokePotion Member Posts: 1,089

    just want to say I literally got a 4k with him since i last posted, doing this.

  • SmokePotion
    SmokePotion Member Posts: 1,089

    @ScottJund said:

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:
    " a bunch of stuff that was wrong"

    You are straight up using him wrong.

    Oh I love this part. Please enlighten me on the correct way to use Legion.

    It's easy. Go to where survivors are, freny, hit them, when you are on the last person, hit him twice, stun out of frenzy.

    then, you let them leave. Count to 3, the chase ends, they bleed out FAST, you follow the blood, try not to start chase to soon, pop frenzy, get hook

    Or they run to a pallet and start mending and laugh at you while you can't do anything. I mean sure, you can just sit there and wait for your power to come back, but that only further supports my "least fun killer in the game" debate. You get an unavoidable hit, sit there, and get another unavoidable hit. That is just awful design, I don't care how effective or ineffective it is.

    Your power comes back fast, you only need 1-2 seconds to smack them and down them. If they are by a pallet it's a free down.

    I'll record a video tonight and post it for you.

  • Delfador
    Delfador Member Posts: 2,552

    @SmokePotion said:
    just want to say I literally got a 4k with him since i last posted, doing this.

    Nobody denied you could. He takes 0 skill to play and everything is expected from the survivors (splitting up, gen rushing, not healing)

  • MhhBurgers
    MhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,758

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:
    " a bunch of stuff that was wrong"

    You are straight up using him wrong.

    Oh I love this part. Please enlighten me on the correct way to use Legion.

    It's easy. Go to where survivors are, freny, hit them, when you are on the last person, hit him twice, stun out of frenzy.

    then, you let them leave. Count to 3, the chase ends, they bleed out FAST, you follow the blood, try not to start chase to soon, pop frenzy, get hook

    Or they run to a pallet and start mending and laugh at you while you can't do anything. I mean sure, you can just sit there and wait for your power to come back, but that only further supports my "least fun killer in the game" debate. You get an unavoidable hit, sit there, and get another unavoidable hit. That is just awful design, I don't care how effective or ineffective it is.

    Your power comes back fast, you only need 1-2 seconds to smack them and down them. If they are by a pallet it's a free down.

    I'll record a video tonight and post it for you.

    Everybody can record a video of himself doing good with ANY killer. Monto has a 3k video with burger king myers (tier 1 myers with 100% ms and no increased lunge) in a 3v1 match where survs didn't do any gens and a 4k video right after

  • SmokePotion
    SmokePotion Member Posts: 1,089

    @ScottJund said:

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:

    @SmokePotion said:

    @ScottJund said:
    " a bunch of stuff that was wrong"

    You are straight up using him wrong.

    Oh I love this part. Please enlighten me on the correct way to use Legion.

    It's easy. Go to where survivors are, freny, hit them, when you are on the last person, hit him twice, stun out of frenzy.

    then, you let them leave. Count to 3, the chase ends, they bleed out FAST, you follow the blood, try not to start chase to soon, pop frenzy, get hook

    Or they run to a pallet and start mending and laugh at you while you can't do anything. I mean sure, you can just sit there and wait for your power to come back, but that only further supports my "least fun killer in the game" debate. You get an unavoidable hit, sit there, and get another unavoidable hit. That is just awful design, I don't care how effective or ineffective it is.

    Your power comes back fast, you only need 1-2 seconds to smack them and down them. If they are by a pallet it's a free down.

    I'll record a video tonight and post it for you.

    How is it a free down if they're at a pallet? They see you coming, they run, initiating chase again. You then have to use your power to hope to catch back up, which means you get another non lethal hit and now they're at around 1/3rd bleedout, and now you have to wait again. You will eventually down someone with Legion with no counterplay, but it takes far too long to be efficient and even if it didn't take long its still awful game design because there's no counterplay whatsoever.

    Now that my game isn't loading, I will slow down and explain it a little better.

    Let's say I'm patrolling generators, and come across 3 people doing one. I pop frenzy, hit the first guy, the second guy then the third guy. I then stay on that third guy and hit him again, cutting his meter down .

    Then I will turn around, while STILL STUNNEd, and look the OPPOSITE DIRECTION of the third person I hit, and count to three. On the count of 3, the chase breaks, causing him to bleed out fast.

    I then follow the blood trail back to the third survivor I hit. While I do this, the other 2 are NOT DOING GENS, because they had to mend. Sure they hop back onto the gen after mending, but that 15-20 seconds means A LOT. (that's counting time to walk back to the gen)

    Once I get close to the third guy, I pop freny and down them.

    NOW, good survivors will sometimes run right to a pallet, and start to mend, if they are your target.

    That's fine, You walk around the pallet and smack them, or they hop the pallet, letting you pop frenzy, and knock there meter down to "you better start mending in a few seconds" They run, you do what I said before, count to 3, then follow the blood.