When do you know it's a skill issue vs a game issue?
It's as the title says, and this can be applied to a lot of other games too, but right now it's just dbd.
When it comes to survivors defining skill is a little more difficult since it's a team based experience, but when it comes to killer you are a single individual. When it comes to survivor, and when it comes to killer, and you're losing every match or you're not winning chases, what is the issue?
Is it you? Or is it the game?
Obviously there's other situations where this applies so feel free to include them
Comments
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I think most people feel like if it happens to them it's a game issue, and if it happens to someone else, it's a skill issue.
But seriously, I think it depends on a lot of things. If you're consistently losing chases quickly as a surv, it's almost certainly a skill issue. If you are having long chases as a killer and losing them, it's probably a skill issue.
As far as why people lose games, that could be any number of issues. As a surv, it can be low skill, bad matchmaking, and getting stuck in MMR hell.
As a killer, a bad map combined with bad RNG and the wrong killer can put you in a really tough spot. But if you're continually losing as killer, it's probably a skill issue, since you'll end up at a low enough MMR it can't really be anything else.
Survivor is a tricky thing because even if you are good, if you end up at low MMR with bad teammates, you can still struggle to string together wins.
I think generally you have to be mindful of sample sizes. You can be good and have a demoralizing losing streak, but in a large sample the average will indicate more.
Post edited by Thusly_Boned on1 -
Skill issue is for when the game's Balanced
Survivors don't need to do anything there are 5 gens 4 people They can do a gen under than 30 seconds and they'll tea bag you for not being able to kill the entire team under 1 minute
So it's only game issue there's no skill issue to begin with i literally hit a survivor 5 times during a chase and didn't die you tell me Is this skill issue?
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If you could have done something better in XXX situation, then possibly a skill issue.
If there was just nothing, no alternative course of action, that could have possibly affected the outcome in a positive way, then a game issue.
But then there's also the possibility of it being neither, like when you mindgame and the other side won the gamble. It's a gamble and anyone can win or lose at "rock, paper, scissors" regardless of skill. And that's probably the most balanced game ever.
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It's very simple really
If it's an issue i'm having it's a game issue
And if it's an issue you're having it's a skill issue
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Tell me more wrong things, please.
I enjoy reading so many untrue statements and misleading, mistaken affirmations
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For me skill issue is everything not related to bad game design or server delay. So much server delay.
Thing about skill is the most skill full killers will be the best at the worst aspect of game. For better or worse. Be it toxic or not W is a W. It all comes down to constancy for me. If constant it can be planned for.
It's the game when you hit a survivor while they drop a pallet see the blood they make a grunt but no damage.
Or Wesker just dropping max infect people for. No reason. Don't even get me started on plague. The amount of rng with vomit sometimes hitting sometimes not is insane.
Totems another big one there is no counter play for a person spawning on your hex and having it done within first 20 sec of game
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When it fits our agenda.
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I'd argue that playing off-meta characters and builds and actively handicapping yourself in your playstyle and still winning shows substantially more skill than playing the most meta you possibly can
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I typically analysis the situation and break down what could have done better, or what was out of my control. Think about it like this, let's say Im Billy on Garden of Joy (for the sake of this example)...
- I curve around a car and miss... Is it the loop or is my skill? Well in this case, the car can be curved around like other cars. So using that to deduce the available options, I can determine that I messed up the timing and my skill (or lack there of) was responsible for me missing the hit.
- Alternatively I am being looped around a bush. The survivor stands still and doesnt move from a single spot but I still hit the bush instead of the survivor for the collision. Could I have been patient or maybe tried another approach to chainsaw'ing them? The collision for the bushes in comparison to the collision for characters doesnt like up properly and makes it so chainsaw'ing does nothing. So in this instance, it would be the game having issues that need to be resolved.
This is of course a very face value example but you need to try and be self-aware as well as avoid using as much bias as possible to be able to come to the conclusion. Sometimes even looking from both point of views can also help. There are game issues. There are skill issues. I feel as if people, even myself sometimes, fail to come to the right conclusion as to which it is sometimes, which is fine as long as the person can acknowledge their mistakes made later down the line.
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With my mmr being in the pits, the three main problems I experience are me failing to loop, one or more teammates doing nothing, or killers tunneling. The first one is definitely a skill issue. The other two are neither skill nor game issues... 😕
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If you lose, it's a skill issue. If I lose, it's a game issue. Simple.
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My rule of thumb if I lose is it’s me, not the game. Loadouts and such only really matter when people are already all playing very well and that’s rarely the case in most games. Even little mistakes can cost 15 or 20 seconds of time, player skill is a big deal.
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From a general perspective for killer: If you have the same build and strategy as someone who tends to do well with the same killer and on the same tiles you do badly with then it's either a skill issue or a matchmaking issue where you're put against survivors who are out of your league. On a mikro-level: If you then miss hits that others are able to land then it's a skill issue on your part - most likely pathing and timing. If it is you not being able to even get to that part then the survivors are likely out of your league and have a better understanding of the overall tile / map layout and how to move between tiles and run and mindgame them. On a makro level: If you see gens popping well spread out, you didn't keep track of where you were going/following for chases to be able to force a three gen in late game. Losing on a makro game level as killer is nearly always a killer skill issue, one of the few exceptions being a killer without something to help with map-traversal on a big map.
From a general perspective as survivor: Easiest way to tell is to equip Bond+Open Handed and stay after spectator mode. Since there are more survivors than you it's rather easy to tell on a mikro-game level: take first chase, last as long as you can, get hooked, get unhooked, heal up and repeat until you're dead, then go to spectator mode. If they fare significantly better against the very same killer on the very same map; it's you who lacks skill. Alternatively/additionally watch teamies chases via Bond and compare to how you do/did on the same tiles against the same killer (across matches) and you'll get a sense of where you're at skill wise. I for one know I suck at chase on most tiles; I have my juicer moments but they are usually far and few in between. On a makro level: keep track of where teamies are/were and where gens are and you should be able to avoid a three gen / identify a killer who tries to force a three gen and act accordingly to avoid it. Also keep track of perks and avoid them. - Being hit more than once by painres e.g. is a skill issue on the surv part.
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Unfortunately such a scenario requires an accurate assessment of personal skill to be valid and humans really suck at that.
Ability to assess personal performance directly has been studied a lot and people fail consistently at their ability to assess personal performance or “skill” as it were.
Results are generally highly varied and highly biased based on a number circumstantial factors that can change rapidly over a short period, making self assessment difficult to repeat and quantify and often beyond the realm of the individual.
It’s why good coaching makes or breaks athletes because an external assessment of performance is often required to garner genuine improvement.
Be brutally honest with yourself how often do you equate even minor success with your own skills and not just random chance which often plays a bigger role. We are all under the influence of our own ego and it loves to cloud our ability to judge ourselves.
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It can be hard to say. Survivor is especially nebulous considering how all over the place skill level and playstyles often are in the same match. And I think the community as a whole doesn't understand good survivor play all that well. You see really basic mistakes at the highest levels of pubs that are drilled out of players on day 1 of their first comp scrims.
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If this forum is any indication here is the way to break it down. Ask yourself this question.
Does the issue affect me personally?
If the answer is yes it's definitely a game issue.
If the answer is no it's obviously a skill issue.
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There's a major complication with differentiating a skill issue from a game issue; if you knew what you were about to do was the wrong decision would you have done it?
That's why self reflection is important. If you knew it was the wrong play to begin with you wouldn't have done it. It's only by looking at it in hindsight that you can hope to see the mistakes.
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Usually this requires you watching your gameplay playback to determine.
Sometimes survivors get put against a killer with 4k hours while the team has 100~ each. And vice versa.
Sometimes as kill you get a certain map and just know you are going to have a bad time.
Humans of course suck at self reflection and will blame the game.
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Put another way, losing to Old Dead Hard was a most often a game issue, while losing to Current Dead Hard is more likely to be a skill issue.
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I'm someone who is very cruel upon myself so I blame everything on my skill level, whether it's true or not. And it's often true.
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Skill issue vs Game issue!?
I think i might have something to share about this! And it's FRESH, like Minutes ago FRESH!
Here we go! I'M BAD AT SURVIVOR but check this one out...
As you can see my points speak for themselves. The fact i was the only escape vs Nurse speaks for itself. Even if you remove the 7k points from escaping, i'm clocking above 24k points, more than my team mates and even if David Escaped he'd never get to my points.
IF any of these survivors Pipped which i have to believe they didnt then there's a big issue here and i doubt it's my skill. The Nurse Pipping and even double Pipping might be a thing and i'm very ok with that. But the fact i'm 1 Pip away from Iri1 and i just had this match and didn't reach Iri 1 is silly to me.
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Everything that is in your control measures your skill. Everything that is out of your control measures the game’s design.
In order to identify game issues, you must also be able to identify the limits of player control.
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Typically if its from a surv its a skill issue, but outside of that i only see it as game issue.
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I think that is well said. The only thing is some of our actions might lead to scenarios we can't do much about.
But you probably meant taking everything into consideration and measuring a game from start to finish.
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That's my whole thing, it's a game issue rather than a skill issue most of the time.
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Survivors complaining about killers = skill issue.
Killers complaining about survivors = game issue.
...
That about sums it up.
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If you're playing as a survivor then u can't just count ur skills alone. You need to count ur teammates as well and if you have played this game long enough, your biggest enemies were never the skills killers... It's your dumb@$$ teammates. If ur teammates are iri 4-1 and can't run killer for more than 30s and don't do gen at all... Trust me it wasn't your fault that u got killed that match. It was ur dumb@$$ teammates. I mean the point at the end of the ground speak for itself. If u did good even if u lose u should have around 12-15-20k blood points. I've lost so many game where I have 15-20k BP and the lone survivor get around 12-22k BP.
I'm sorry if you're the guy that's iri 4-1 and can't run killer for more than 30s and always crouch around the corner when u hear heart beat... Now you're the problem your teammates lost the match.
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The survivor with Self Care but without Botany Knowledge got the least points. Color me shocked.
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