BHVR, the ability to hook suicide and dodge the DC penalty is a major problem
The removal of the ability to suicide on hook is long overdue. It also is a loophole for bypassing the DC penalty despite quitting, which is insanely unhealthy.
There are 3 main aspects that genuinely need to be addressed soon:
- A rework to self-unhook mechanics, so people cannot force themselves to stage 2. For instance, only one attempt with adjusted percent chance, to prevent immediate self-forced stage 2. Or removal of Luck/basekit attempt mechanic and making Deliverance the only and reworking Slippery Meat. Or any other idea.
- The removal of the ability to ignore 2 consecutive Struggle skillchecks to die.
- The ability to intentionally fail 3 Struggle skillchecks to die. Almost no one is going to miss those skillchecks accidentally ever with how huge they are. Make them exclusively for Bloodpoints instead or something that doesn’t affect the remaining time.
Comments
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If they would do all the things, the people who are suicide on hook would just stay afk after the unhook i think. We need something like 24h ban for suicide, being afk, and dcs. Rb6 does something similar.
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I think a mechanic like what R6 or League has where it will automatically kick a player for being AFK and giving them the disconnect penalty is necessary. In order for this to not be exploited by stuff like bodyblocking people into a corner, it should have a few requirements.
- Disabled during endgame collapse (since bodyblocking during EGC is a strategy explicitly allowed by devs)
- If a survivor gets 1 AFK crow (60s inactivity), they will be kicked and given the DC penalty as if they DC’d UNLESS survivor or the killer has been in X meters of them for those 60s.
- This means only bodyblocking can trigger it, because if the other survivor or the killer were running around the map normally, the first survivor wouldn’t be able to gain crows because to stay in X range of them would require them to have been running around after them across the map.
- IF someone has been bodyblocking them for those 60s, then instead, the survivor with the AFK crow will lose collision with survivors/the killer for the next Y seconds. This is so they can move out and continue to play.
- If a killer is inactive for 60s (eg standing in place/just AFK swinging weapon like the leveling bots for selling accounts do/etc), they will be kicked and given the DC penalty.
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Fix Spontaneous Disconnections :
- When a survivor disconnects, they are replaced by a bot.
- Removed DC penalty.
Fix suicide hooks :
- Delivery : 1 charge in base kit for the first self-unhooking attempt.
- The next time the survivor is hooked if he fails the first skill test (voluntarily) : He will be auto DC and replaced by a BOT who will do his job better.
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Or make the game fair again (49% killrate was just 1% shy of fair games). This might do the trick for most killers.
Forcing ppl to play loosing match against starstruck range addon nurse will force them to effectively DC (that's what suicide on hook is), or stop playing the game altogether if you punish them too much. The game is pvp and not pve. You can't take control from 1 side and then force them to play
Also expect sandbags/dropping pallets/missing all skillchecks if you force people to play the game that they don't want to play. Because that would be the only remaining thing how to get to next game
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Removing the DC penalty is literally one of the worst possible ideas ever. Literally every single time BHVR has temporarily disabled it due to crashing issues or cheaters or whatnot, people nonstop ragequit almost every game ever.
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Suicide on hook should not be a loophole to bypass the DC penalty for what is ragequitting.
Sandbagging is bannable with video evidence.
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It might have to do something with the fact, that you play nurse. In my games it did happen, but definitelly not almost every game (be it survivor or killer game) so maybe killer (not player) issue?
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Yes, clearly the fault is on someone playing a part of the game instead of ragequitting the second they face something they don’t like.
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Or maybe it's 0 fun to face nurse and she should be reworked.
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A game shouldn't ban DC players, which is why I'm suggesting that BOTs take over so players who stay aren't penalized.
BOTS can play very well if programmed well.
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Nurse rework:
Base Speed : 4.6
Teleport token : 1
Simple.
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god i hope they never listen to ideas like this.
if someone wants to go next let them be
it's not like its guaranteed anyway
1- they can kobe 2- they will probably get saved before they can die anyway because of having to miss skill checks
i can understand dc penalty but if someone wants out of unfun/unwinnable match as a survivor this is the only way and it should stay.
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Survival is "trying" to survive.
The pleasure felt must be in the attempt, in the trials, Not in the final goal.
Your argument does not hold.
On the other hand, I maintain the fact that players must be able to disconnect and be replaced by BOTs
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People shouldn’t queue up if they aren’t mature enough to face a part of the game. If they only care about their own fun, they should go play a single player game instead of ragequitting and ruining it for the other 4 players.
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bots should only be in custom matches
it's a 4v1 game not a 10v10 deathmatch or a battle royal with 100 players
as killer it'd be extremely boring to chase a bot there's no fun chases they gonna be either very predictable or gods and neither are good for the game.
and as a survivor i rather go next than have a bot as a teammate, we like to joke that bots would be better than soloq teammates but in reality no one would be having fun saving/healing and counting on bots to loop.
the fun in the survivor role is the chases and the teamwork between "real people" not to do gens and escape
sorry but I've tried the dc bot system on mobile and it was honestly a horrible experience and one of the biggest reasons i gave up on that version, and if they ever decide to implement it to the core game dc penalties should remain and should be even more punishing.
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FYI anything below a 75% killrate is still just a 2k on average.
A 50% killrate is not "perfectly balanced", it means the Killer barely manages to scrape by the requirements to get a 2k. The killrate being at 61% doesn't mean Killers suddenly dominate all their games, it just means they can get more hooks in on average than they could prior and still end the game on a 2k. That is not a bad thing.
Not to mention that these stats are taking all ranks with all skill levels into account (they most likely also don't filter out games with ragequits, which spell certain doom for the Survivor team and can therefore artificially inflate these numbers), which makes them pretty worthless overall.
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Idk but did you have basic math in school? You have 5 options. 0k (survivors won hard) 1k (survivors won) 2k (it's a draw) 3k (killer won) 4k (killer won hard). Anything above 50% kr means you push for killer won or killer won hard. So 75% is on avarage killer won (so total disaster). 60% is 2,4k/match so something along the lines of it's a draw, but killer almost won on avarage.
How would you like it if the stats were reversed? Meaning you would get 2 kills only if you were lucky? But almost as often as you get a draw - you would outright loose the game? Good feeling right? Makes it quite easy to reason why incentives are on survivor almost always...
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Or even better. Under current MMR computation 61% killrate is almost like (~5% shy of) on avarage killer murdered 2, and 1 escaped via gate and one via hatch (so last player's match didn't count). Making it killer's win on avarage
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Honestly they could probably remove the timer penalty for trying to pull yourself off the hook and it would be ok. Yeah, it's a slight buff for survivors if they can attempt their three shots at self rescue and if it doesn't work there's no downside, but unless the survivor is running Luck effects they usually won't get off the hook anyway and it would have the upside of making people who want to ragequit have to cool their jets for 60 seconds before getting to stage 2.
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I don't like band-aid fixes and symptomatic treatment. This would be treating the symptoms, not the cause. The why needs to be addressed.
Are people sick of the same Killer over and over? (Wow a Nurse after my 5 Blight games in a row, fun /s.) Killer bans can help.
Is the Killer excessively slugging, refusing to end the game? Maybe the slugged Survivor can get hatch if you die sooner. That is being addressed by the devs, and for the strangest reason there is push back against it when all the numbers disagree with the Doomsayers.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
This. 100% agreed in all points
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
There are people who are DC because they have a network problem, these people have done nothing wrong, they do not have to be punished.
Except that the game does not know the difference (and could not) between a DC linked to the network and a DC voluntary.
With the BOTS replacing the DCs, we are more affected by the base DCs and the accidental DCs.
Moreover what is even more negative for the players is when a DC killer or when itAFK, the game ends.
Again, a BOT that replaces an AFK/DC killer is better than having to search for a part again.
And nothing prevents developers from creating BOTs that learn to loop, t Bag, say no with their head, hit a survivor etc...
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please husk system
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wahhhh I don't like playing against this killer, I'm gonna ragequit >:(
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It's more like - there is nothing I can really do against this killer as she has no real conterplay. And I refuse to be NPC - waiting out if the killer makes mistake (as opposed to me doing something good).
This is unique trait of nurse. Not even blight is this broken. There are very few things you can actually do against him. But not against nurse. You can only make it easier for nurse to misplay. 0 fun. Bad design. Sorry, but I want out of that match ASAP
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Bots should *never* be a fill in for players in regular games. Custom games, sure, but never regular matches.
Let's set aside the issues with nemesis zombies completely, which are admittedly dumb, prone to bugs/stuck, and can be completely useless or even a hindrance for nemesis if they body block.
Will a bot know to avoid line of sight with Myers, or run away from a killer like Wraith even though there's no terror radius and barely a blurry outline?
How does the bot deal with tile mind games? If it doesn't, or is random, then it's free fodder for the killer to farm stacks off of. If it does react, doesn't a bot rely on exact killer location that a player doesn't have? In that case it's got instant reaction time and possibly wall hacks.
Should a bot cleanse against the plague? The correct answer is 'it depends' which is impossible to code.
Will a bot unhook while devour is revealed, or go look for a totem instead?
And if the bot does get stuck somewhere, it's actively preventing hatch from spawning at best, and feeding the killer a free blood warden at worst.
I'd rather have an empty spot on the team than ai. If you want bots, go play the tutorial.
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One thing I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer; nothing is “impossible to code.”
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This is ridiculous how many people think penalty does nothing, have you even seen a DbD without no DC penalty? that was hell of a game.
So yeah, punishing it WILL reduce throwing a lot, action is necessary and has to be done quickly.
I don't get why it takes so long for BHVR to fix this, when it is extremely game breaking matter.
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Huh? people want to play the game, not to win, why can you think "it's not an issue when you are winning"? is that the mindset you have?
Also no, whether it's common or not is irrelevant, keeping FREE disconnect in a game with DC penalty is simply dumb, inconsistent and unhealthy.
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There should not ever be a loophole for bypassing the DC penalty. If they want to quit, they can quit. And get the penalty they deserve for doing so. It’s just about removing an utterly stupid way to DC without being penalized for DCing.
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Sorry, can I ask for something sensible?
I shouldn't need a reasoning for why abusable mechanics that can be used to circumvent DC penalty shouldn't exist.
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A minor problem isn’t one that happens with high frequency and ruins the game whenever it does like suiciding on hook is. Also as for why a killer would dislike it, because some people don’t want a virtually predetermined match result 1m into the game?
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Quite an interesting take, I didn't know a problem that can literally break the game was minor.
Also, your response answers literally nothing, but okay.
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At least it crashes matches for sure, It's no different from nurse freezing for an entire match or clown quickened all the time.
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Don't play starstruck nurse. You will get games that are not predeternined in lobby
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The excuses people come up with for defending ragequitting will never not be hilarious.
"This person dared to play a part of the game, so I decided to actively refuse to play the game and ruin it for all 4 other players."
Removing the ability to hook suicide doesn’t mean you can’t quit if you insist on being immature and selfish because you want to auto-give up playing just cause someone played a part of the game you don’t like. It just means you no longer get a stupid get-out-of-jail free option to avoid the DC penalty for doing what is done for the exact purpose of DCing. It’s genuinely both hilarious and sad that people have this weird sense they should be entitled to have a penalty-free ragequit option.
If other people playing a part of a game makes you react that immaturely and selfishly and choose to actively quit the game, do everyone a favor and go play a single player game instead.
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Obvious issue in that last one: how do you differentiate someone failing voluntarily from someone actually trying to unhook themselves?
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By changing self-unhook system so something like that isn’t possible in the first place. Whether it’s reducing it to one chance, removing time penalty of the 3 chances, only allowing attempts in specific situations it would make sense to genuinely try a self-unhook, etc etc, so on. Then self-unhooking literally becomes unusable for forcing self second stage either completely or at least not immediately.
And struggle skillchecks only affect Bloodpoints. Ignoring 2 or failing 3 to die becomes impossible. And realistically, almost no one misses any of them anyways with how huge they are.
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There is no rq involved. It's just unfun. Why loosing time over it? It's not like I am being payed to entertain nurse players. No emotions, but I am just out. I can go afk if that makes you feel better, but I will not participate in unfair match stacked to this degree.
If the only fix devs are willing to male is stunning nurse being less beneficial then her missing aa, instead of proper nerf, then why bother?
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Even if the option to bypass the DC penalty is removed, you are free to decide to AFK. That is incredibly easy to record and report, and can eventually cause a permanent ban. Ideally, a measure like those of other games to automatically kick and penalize AFK players would also exist. You would also still be free to disconnect and sit out the penalty for doing so. There just will no longer be a way to ragequit while bypassing the penalty for ragequitting. The existence of the exemption is as illogical and stupid as anyone who thinks they’re entitled to have a penalty-free way to DC.
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Ok. I will play really bad then. I just don't know how to fast/mid vault. Or my shift key just broke so I can't run...
You can't make people play the game. Nurse is broken beyond limit of what is acceptable.
Make the game more fun for both sides and people will want to play with you. Cry to the devs that 61% is not enough and starstruck nurse is ok and expect people to suicide. Make devs punish it harshly and people will just uninstall. Nobody likes to get stomped game after game when there is nothing they can do about it.
If you want your killer fantasy, then you play single player games. Multiplayers should not focus just 1 side. I am not payed to play the game. I play it to enjoy myself. If there will be nothing but frustration on my part, then the game makes no sense and I am out. It's as simple as that.
Another note. If all killers were so broken as nurse specifically (and blight to some degree) I would have already uninstalled the game. And it's not just me.
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Those are not comparable in the slightest. One is playing the game. The other is choosing to knowingly throw the game by refusing to play/intentionally playing detrimentally. But it’s rather telling to see how adamantly you need a loophole to quit without getting the penalty for quitting.
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And camping is what? Playing the game? Staying at 1 spot looking around? And most killers do it anyway.
Nurse is autoloose or baby and no in-between. It's not fun one way or another. Why should I bother? The target of playing game is to have fun. The target of nurse is to laugh at the survivors getting stomped. Thank you but no thank you...
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tfw knowingly throwing the game should have consequences
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Well if I play in swf and we all agree (which we do), then the only person to not enjoy his killer fantasy is the killer. And I will not be in a match which's aim is to make my day worse. Again. I am not payed to cater to killers
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And do you always play a full 4-man SWF with a unanimous decision every single time that happens?
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No. Sometimes I bite the bullet out of respect to the strangers (but if I see someone suicide....). I play almost 50:50 solo to 4man swf. Sometimes duo or trio, but not that much.
Lucky for me, nurse is no longer that popular since wesker came live + not everyone plays starstruck range addon nurse with NOED. Also the matches are thankfully short.
Still... Even bad (not baby or terrible one) nurse can win the game with 4k (and really good nurse makes the match last 2-3 minutes). So these games take away energy and will to play another game (even in that short time-window)
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So, you yourself acknowledge you will and have actively ruined matches for randoms by quitting, yet you still think there should be a way to bypass the penalty for quitting.
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??? Did you read what I wrote? I said I don't do that out of respect to strangers. If someone else already killed himself on first hook, then the game is already lost anyway. That's not ruining the game. That one was already ruined.
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Your wording was "Sometimes" you bite the bullet out of respect for strangers. The parenthetical about someone else having already hook suicided reads as applying to only the sometimes. Did you mean "I do not throw the game when there’s a stranger unless someone else has already suicided on hook"?
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