Should slug time be a dynamic value
This is just getting other peoples ideas of should the slug time be a static value or not, 45 seconds on paper is ok but should this value be more or less depending on any number of factors
Should certain killers have longer timers depending on how much their kit is currently based around slugging, like oni and twins as long as its only 2 people down
Should weaker killers have longer timers to make up for the fact they can't play as fast as nurses or blight
Should the amount of times a survivor has recovered using it have an effect
Should the amount of hooks a survivor or their team has gotten have an effect
Should the amount be longer depending on how many survivors are already dead
Should the duration take longer if you just picked yourself up recently or should it be shorter, should it be longer if you used it then had a large window when you weren't slugged again or shorter,
ect
Personally I think 45 seconds is a decent sweet spot for faster paced killers like blight and nurse since while they are fast this means a viable window after maybe 1-2 players have died while on the other hand some of the slower killers probably couldn't manage if 2 players were dead and they wanted to go for both.
Maybe more duration for weaker killers or a more dynamic duration is the way to do it
Comments
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A static not ever because an infinite self pick up shouldn’t be basekit.
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Well thats where the idea of dynamic value comes in, maybe the penalty is so great you can just barely squeeze in another pick up before bleed out so the next time you go down its ~5 seconds from death (so killer can still get hook value)
or maybe its so high that without perks you can't get more than 1 basekit pickup
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If a survivor wants a self-pickup, they should have to use a perk for it. Infinite use? That’s so busted it requires being permanently Broken (or there being a Hex up). Not suitable? Then a one-time single use.
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Well yea I don't agree with free infinite use thats why I think the time should be dynamic, have some kind of penalties or such, in a team based game doing something all by yourself shouldn't be free
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A variable time might be too difficult to adjust to and I wouldn't necessarily trust the times to make the most sense/not get lost and disorganized (45/60/75 somehow becoming 45/75/45/60/75). Plus the extreme variability of times can more often cause confusion and accusations of cheating, so without a greater levels of anti-cheat protection I would say the static 45s is fine as is.
Basekit self-pickups only punishes BMing Killers in the vast majority of realistic use cases. The .01% of Killers being "bullied" are just going to be winning slower. They still will win that match, it just would take a little bit longer. Killers refusing to hook should be punished, and this is a fair way to do so.
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45s is not a long amount of time at all. Why are survivors being rewarded for ignoring their downed teammates?
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Why is the killer not hooking?
45s is self-care time, which is quite long in terms of gametime. It may not be long in terms of human lifespan, but we are talking gametime here.
Personally I would have 30s to reach 95%, then another 30s to go from 95->100%, for a minute total (self-pickup perks remove the speed penalty at 95%). With programming difficulties however I can accept 45s as the middle time. If a Killer is slugging in excess of 45s then 99.99% of the time they are BM-ing. As I've said in other threads I am all for punishing BM, and I would add an entity block to the exit gates if you crouch a random number more than 2 times within the gate confines for the block being 30s.
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Because there are all sorts of situations where not slugging is literally the dumber and worse play? Like when other survivors are close by, if they’re on a pallet, if they’re in the open against people with flashlights, if you have a limited duration effect (eg Haunted/Starstruck), if you have a limited duration power (Oni/Plague/Myers), etc? And even a decent chase against a good survivor is easily ~30s?
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end-game, 2 exit gates are far apart, your waiting for your teammate to die, so that you can get the free escape. Your also acting like survivors constantly get to use unbreakable 3-4 times a match. Its hard to use unbreakable once per match consistent especially in soloq.
This is big buff to swf though. bodyblocking swf with unbreakable. Not sure why swf needs buff consider 15% higher escape rate at higher level... but ok.
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They are not rewarding? 45 seconds is pretty long time. One survivor is on ground and one survivor is in chase. 2 survivors are not doing anything. You already have pressure on them?
And if they are gonna add this mori system into game like that, slugging builds will be popular and strong. So ofcourse they have to add something for survivors.
I can see builds with Knock Out + Third Seal + Undying without this basekit UB. So if they won't add this basekit UB, the question is why they are buffing slugging then? Do we really need to buff slugging?
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I would rather have neither of those?
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I'm sorry was the pickup 4.5s? No it was 45s.
Pallet/Flashlights - If it takes a player more than 45s to take care of them instead of tanking the pallet and permanently removing the map resource I think they have greater problems than self-pickups. I think they are simply very bad at the game and need to seek to improve in a multitude of ways.
Starstruck - Lasts 30s from hook/drop, so you have more than enough time to reach the 1st person you hit, hook them, and then the 2nd/3rd as well.
Oni - 45s minus 7s per down. If you get 3 downs that is 24s. Lets use the same Starstruck logic here. If you got 3 people downed in 30, you take ~6s to lift/hook and ~8s to travel to a hook, you have more than enough time to hook 3 people. (If you got all 4 you instawin.)
Plague/Myers/Haunted Grounds - 60s timer and largely the same as the Starstruck/Oni scenario. Plus if you know you are reaching ~half power/timer remaining you should go pick the inital slug up with ~15s to spare of the timer after you hook. Easy counterplay, easy solution.
With those out of the way there are no sort of situations where the 45s timer is punishing anything other than BM.
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This is fair. Because the problem is comes from both sides.
Add UB to survivor basekit and now slugging is so weak.
Remove UB part and add new mori system into game. Now slugging is so strong and UB will be needed perk for survivors.
So whatever they do with this system, we will have new issues in game.
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You do realize there’s travel time, cooldown on attacks, and pickup time, right? This is literally punishing killers for making proper use of their given time.
I think pretty much the entirety of the dev notes this time is a horrendous idea, ngl.
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You clearly didn't read my post since I accounted for them. Don't lie further and fail to address legitimate criticisms to your continued lies.
Edit: It only punishes Killers for NOT making proper use of their given time.
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Are you being disingenuous on purpose?
Cooldown is 2.7, pickup is 3, hook is 1.5, median carry will be ~7.5-8s. Even that alone is already 14.7-15.2s.
You do not have the time to do that when you need to literally start an entire new chase against a survivor who has had time to run away while you do all that, especially against a 30s long Exposed.
Oni’s dash has a 2s charge, the smash is a 2s charge, smash open time is 0.5, hitting happens over 0.3, successful cooldown is 3s. That alone is 7.8s for a point blank no distance down. Which eats another 7s for the actual down. That is a 14.8s depletion assuming literally zero travel time for each down minimum.
Ah yes, just waste the limited time not chasing and going to pick up instead, amazing idea. Just waste the power duration, sure why not.
"legitimate criticisms" LOL
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You just gave 15s which was the same estimate I gave. That proves I gave an accurate estimation for the Oni/Starstruck scenarios. If you had 3 people down you have that 15s timeframe multiplied by 3 allowing for ... wait for it ... 45s. Wow almost like you have all the time in the world to get those 3 hooks from snowballing no problem. That technically doesn't account for movement between survivors, but it also doesn't account for an immediate smack to re-down them.
You hard mathed out the same scenario I estimated to same result, which proves you never read what I said in the first place. You wanted to make a point without addressing what I said, and proved me right in the process while claiming the opposite. If anyone is being disingenuous it is you.
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By the time you down the third as Oni, the first is literally back up. And this is WITH zero travel distance with the Dash.
And you are completely ignoring chase time in Starstruck. You are literally completely giving up a chance for a second down if you play like that against any survivor with a brain who knows to run as far away in the opposite direction as possible.
DBD wiki literally has these numbers publicly available. At least run them yourself first before saying utterly imaginary impossible scenarios.
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The power lasts 45s base, the self-pickup takes 45s base. The only way the 1st is back up on the 3rd down is Oni brought duration add-ons, so you are already wrong/lying.
Chase time in Starstruck doesn't matter if they out timed the exposed duration. If the first person who got hooked and granted the Killer Starstruck, the second got downed at 0s, and the third got downed at 29.99s, then the killer has ~12s to reach the second survivor, or 55.2m of distance (assuming 4.6 no mobility). Then it takes them the ~15s to hook and you have the remaining ~30s minus double travel time to pick up the third. If the Killer downed all 3 remaining players within the 30s then they auto-win from the changes.
I can't tell if you are not reading what you or I are typing or actively spreading lies. Either way the result is net negative and would ask for you to change your ways for the better.
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Getting 3 downs with base Oni power is next to impossible unless survivors were multi hit, because it requires zero Demon Dash travel time. The 3 downs take 21s deduction, and the actual charge up and action times take the remaining ~24s even with zero Dash distance. I was responding to your original nonsensical fantasy impossible scenario. Stop moving the goalposts. Thanks.
Ah yes, the incredibly realistic situation where the second survivor goes down literally 0s in and the third goes down at 29.99s. Please don’t waste anyone else’s time with this nonsense. It’s nothing but absurd fantastical scenarios that have zero actual meaningful relevance.
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The Oni example showed 3 downs yielded a maximum of 24 power seconds, which gives 21 total seconds to pick the first person back up from a 3 power down. In the theoretical worst case scenario Oni still had the time to pick up all 3 survivors.
The Starstruck example of 0/29.99 was the best example for your case. I was being generous to your assertion that hitting 2 people means you can't pick up either. Then in the perfect scenario where you are saying it isn't possible to pickup it shows the exact opposite.
Neither of my examples accounted for more normal scenarios, because I could use the extreme opposite example in your favor to help your point and still prove you wrong. I was doing the opposite of you, I gave your assertion every possible conceit I could and still proved it false.
The only person wasting anyone's time here is you for repeatedly lying and claiming those falsehoods are truth.
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Thats if they are in a pile under basement hook, time to pick up and hook is ~4 seconds plus transport
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Yes and even with that time the Killer still has time to hook 3 people since they can hook them in the sequence they were downed.
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