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So, 2 free survivor perks are base... when can we see killer get the same treatment?
The developers have already implemented a basekit Borrowed Time perk to survivors so that they cannot be tunneled out of the game as a killer tries to push his objective, but now they are thinking of implementing a basekit Unbreakable?
This to me is way overkill, especially since we have yet to see the killer side get any of the same treatment of a free perk at basekit. I mean the least they could do is make Shattered Hope basekit for killer but sadly killers arent getting any of these "here is a free basekit perk" treatment.
IN MY OPINION (dont get to worked up), I believe if survivors get borrowed time AND unbreakable at basekit, then killers should at least get Shattered Hope and Ruin at basekit as well, this would mean BOTH sides get special treatment for free perks and one side doesnt get visibly favored. Thoughts?
Comments
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Technically, killers have Brutal Strength Tier 1 and 2 permanent stacks of STBFL.
Probably not the perks you're looking for, but they are definitely there.
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61 percent kill rate and people think killer needs basekit perks. Lol.
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Basekit ruin? With 90sec gens? And the killers capable of overstacking gen regressing perks?
It would be fairer to give any killer a machine gun.
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A small portion of two mid tier perks in exchange for two of survivors best perks, seems fair.
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Was STBFL a 10% recovery rate for killer? i dont remember but either way the devs gave survivors way more of an edge as they are basically going against 2 very viable strats killers have (tunneling and slugging) to make it basically impossible. I think if they are getting rid of 2 diff strats killers have then ruin at base should be implemented to stop genrushing strats survivors use. I just see some very clear bias is all and wonder when the devs will address it
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You did get the same treatment.
You know in the update that increased the kill rate to over 60%?
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Really? What meta perks did killers get added to their base kit?
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By this logic revert basekit BT and give survivors perma 15% audio reduction(partial iron will) and instead of unbreakable they no longer disturb crows(partial calm spirit). I'm being cheeky but the survivor base kit meta perks are significantly stronger than .2 and .3 second reductions here and there
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Tunneling is still SUUUUUPER easy, particular with the DS nerf.
If slugging becomes non-existent, I'd imagine there will be an uptick in camping/tunneling to compensate.
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Getting a basekit unbreakable seems a bit much. I wish each use of this basekit unbreakable cost a hook state. That way, there would be a risk/reward to it. If everyone else want to stay on gens instead of picking you up, they can, but at a cost
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We did... it's called brutal strength and STBFL
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We did not get the same treatment. Killers did not get any meta perks basekit at all, the game objectives and chases got reworked and balanced.
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You got 2 stacks of STBFL added to the base kit, causing STBFL to be even more effective by proxy (same thing as UB)
You got 1 tier of brutal strength added to the base kit, causing it to be even more effective by proxy (same thing as UB)
You got 10 seconds of time added to generators, causing all % based regression perks to regress more by proxy.
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I agree but I think the devs will implement ANOTHER anti-tunnel perk to compensate ( we may see DS basekit sorry lads)
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This doesn't even take into account the near hard deletion of DS from the game, which was one of the few items keeping the game playable for many Survivors. I wish I could play this game with my friends more but they more or less hard quit after the camp tunnel buff that was 6.1.0. Now that anti jerk mechanics are being added the people without empathy or compassion are losing their minds. "How can I make someone not enjoy the game and uninstall now that I can't 4 minute bleedout as easily." I am glad these kinda players aren't able to ruin as many people's games. At least cheaters can eventually get banned for their negative behavior. These Killers just seek out ruining everyone's experience and get no such just punishment.
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Shattered Hope and Ruin are both terrible picks for basekit perks, though. Not being able to kick generators until someone dies is a gigantic downgrade, and Shattered Hope is only arguably acceptable as a perk because you have to give up a perk slot to use it, there's a very good reason it isn't basekit.
More than just picking apart those two suggestions, though, I want to highlight that there aren't really any killer perks that you could make basekit as an equivalent. Borrowed Time was made basekit because the game was severely lacking any anti-tunnel tools that weren't tied to perks, and Unbreakable is being considered to combat slugging- what would the equivalent of that be for killers? No single killer perk neatly covers for a basekit problem that killers face, the problems that the killer side faces tends to be unbalanced perks/builds or general map design.
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Two stacks of STBFL is next to nothing and is not even a full perk.
1 tier of brutal strength is next to nothing and is not even a full perk.
10 seconds on gens literally doesn't help now that survivors have hyperfocus because gens are actually FASTER than before.
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We didnt get the full perks basekit (borrowed time used to be 10 seconds now they get 10 seconds basekit) if we were to get brutal basekit then we would shred pallets 1.87 seconds (40%) faster than the usual 2.34 seconds.
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I propose Killers get the following basekit changes:
The ability to always see where gens are
The ability to see hooks when they pick up a survivor
The ability to always see the exit gate locations once powered up
The point here is that killers already have everything they need to play the game. Killers have the option to put survivors in positions that are incredibly boring and tedious (face camping, slugging, three genning from the start) and the response to survivors is 'take these specific perks to counteract it'. It becomes a guessing game on the survivor side which is crazy for soloQ.
There's no equivalent on the Killer side except probably Lightborn against high powered flashlights. Everything else that the Survivors can do can be dealt with via Killer strategy/play. Choosing a particular perk should not be necessary (especially when there are 113 survivor perks and it takes a long time to unlock them all) to have a fun game which is why making certain things basekit should absolutely be considered.
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Let's be clear. This is not an US VS THEM situation. It is about balance. You should not expect to get something for your main just because some problem is fixed for the other side.
That being said, a new problem will arise from Unbreakable basekit, and that is Tenacity. Imagine a Tenacity Unbreakable build in a full darkness offering. You'll never find their bodies after you down them before they can get up.
The solution is to make Deerstalker basekit as part of this update.
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Imagine soul guard with this update, I agree its not an US vs THEM situation, but this update would SEVERELY imbalance the game
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Deerstalker along with Whispers.
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Unfortunately that doesn't help against SWFs or just decent survivors who go down under a pallet or go down in the open with a flashlight user around. This change will make it so killers have no way to counter people doing this and I honestly can't think of a perk that would help this.
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I dont think the Whispers would do much as some maps you will ALWAYS be near a survivor for whispers to activate but i agree with the deerstalker one. Im wondering if a toned down bbq basekit would encourage killers to leave hooked survivors to go for chases as they can now get to another chase more easily (maybe a 2 seconds aura or a killer instinct ping?) just some ideas
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Especially with flip flop/power struggle and soul guard being a thing
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I mean, yeah, that just proves why they get small changes, can you imagine a nurse with a permanent STBFL 8 stack?
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Yes but my point was that survivors got a basekit perk fullstop. killer did not, if you think it would be imbalanced for killers to get basekit 8 stacks of STBFL then i think its agreeable that its equally as imbalanced for survivors to get the full 10 second BT basekit no? (Trying to find common ground ty for discussing things!)
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I just would Love to See a weaker Version of Corrupted as Basekit maybe a 1 Minute Version instead of 2 ?
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Whispers will help a lot when there are two survivors left and are refusing to do gens and just hide. At least it’ll give the killer an idea that they’re in the right area.
Id rather not have killers get a basekit Aura reading perk. Perhaps this is just me being bad, but the games already flooded with aura reading and we (I) don’t need to deal with more. I’d like to have stealth be a little viable for those of us who are terrible at looping.
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Understandable, im just wondering in the scenarios with 2 survs left, one gets downed and the killer goes to find the 2nd. the one left on the ground can now get free unbreakable but if they move away to get up later the killer having deerstalker would be useful for finding them if the match is basically over anyways
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STBFL doesn't work on blink attack (you get the stack, but it didn't reduces your cooldown)
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I think they may be thinking of blight
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kinda the same. doesn't work on lethal rush attack
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have you looked at the win% for killer at the moment .... and the win% of survivors (which also takes into consideration SWF).... pretty much proves that you're just whining ?
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Lets try to be polite and not invalidate what other people are saying just because you dont like it. I am talking about the balance of the game atm and the devs themselves have said that the kill rate and escape rate are where they want it. this update would make that % change
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That includes low MMR, where killers dominate. The game should be balanced around high skill, because low skill players will eventually get good at the game and rise to high MMR while the reverse doesn't really happen.
Also if we purely look at stats with no context then I suppose nurse should get a huge buff and pig a big nerf?
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only at low MMR, i promise you. Nothing has changed at higher MMR levels because survs actually adapted and abuse the new perks and metas.
survs got Basekit BT, 20 seconds BT (this is insane actually), Reassurence (makes camping not worth it) and OTR (another great anti tunnel). So basically camping and tunneling is impossible, now slugging will be completely dead.
How the future games will be: killer will play the "chase - down - hook - chase -etc" game, until he has like 5-6 stages (if he is good!), that's it, then all gens will be done on most maps and all 4 survivors will escape. Killer will be degraded to the "survivor-entertainer" role again because any viable strategy that EVERY high MMR killer had to use against good survs is easily countered by perks and mechanics, and not skill.
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Soul Guard is very situational and you would need to bring a Hex totem.
Again situational perks which once pallets are used up become less and less meaningful.
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...I guess? I think I'm just looking at more so survivors never had a chance to get their bearings when they got off the hook, and the unhooker would sometimes get away Scot free, and it was really unfair to the survivor who just got unhooked, hence the BT basekit
Unpopular opinion: I feel like the 5 seconds was enough in that sense that the survivor got to at least move to a maybe tile, and if not, then it was on your idiot teammate for unhooking you when the killer is right there
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standing up in 45 seconds is not a full perk either.
Current unbreakable allows you to stand up in 23 seconds.
Current no mither allows you to stand up in 21 seconds.
Exponential requires you to spend 14 seconds setting up a totem before getting up in 16 seconds after going down in a specific area and not having the killer snuff the boon during that 16 seconds.
So which one is being fully added to the basekit?
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Hes referring to the endurance part of soul guard which has no requirement on a hex and combos amazingly with unbreakable and the proposed any survivor can get up an infinite number of times
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But the killer cooldown buff works for blink attacks right?
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Given how many pallets some maps have it will be a long while. Also after these changes it wont be so situational.
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I guess my answer is don’t slug and the basekit unbreakable would be doing exactly what it intended to do. There’s no reason to keep multiple survivor on the ground to bleed out when you can easily just place them on hook. Now if survivors are taking aggro maybe the recover timer should move slower. That way you can’t be baited by a downed survivor.
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Current UB also only lets you pick yourself up once, I feel thats worth mentioning like the stipulation for exponential is. Its important to note because it means that the new basekit is now more impactful than all of the others due to lacking their stipulations (position/quantity/health restriction) with its only downside being its speed. Which immediately gets nullified once you take UB, which means you're now running old UB but with its restriction removed entirely, and outright ignores why it was popular before.
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To be clear nobody, or at least most people who play both sides, thinks that 4 man slugging or slugging for hatch is fun/fair. This change impacts far more than just those two scenarios. Saboing hooks is receiving a MASSIVE buff with this idea. Say I down a survivor, pick him up, take him to the closest hook in a jungle gym(lets say 8 seconds of travel time) another survivor is there and sabos the hook when I round the corner. I don't have time to make it to another hook + deal with the bodyblock. In todays world I can drop the survivor and chase the saboer and still get pressure in that a survivor needs to get off of a gen to come pick the slug up the rest of the way. In the proposed world no one will get off gens and that survivor is going to pop up off of the ground very soon by himself, essentially erasing or losing me however much time I spent in chase to down that survivor. I did not want to slug, nor did I toxically do it to troll the person but that's literally the only play when someone sabos successfully. I can go on and list other scenarios as well(boil over, hook deadzones, swf bodyblock plays, etc) but the point is this impacts far far more than just toxic people 4 man slugging for 4 mins and hatch prevention.
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I don’t see near enough Toolboxes being taken into matches for hook sabotaging. That’s like an ancient practice (unless amongst a well coordinated SWF team). Now on the chance you are being body blocked to hook or survivors are taking aggro on preventing hooks I’d say again situational (probably mostly against SWFs) and as a Killer you are going to have to figure out a play to get around that. And with each of those scenarios you are getting pressure by having 1-3 survivors off gen to save the 1. I can agree that this baskit buff for survivors will give SWFs more power but it also helps SoloQ survivors who let others bleed out bc they don’t know if Killer is chasing in the area, Killer is baiting for slugging, or just want to do gen simulator. As a SoloQ survivor I have to support any buff that helps bc right now SoloQ is in a pitiful position. I’m sure Killers will learn to adjust.
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Sould guard gives the endurance effect when a survivor gets up from the dying state. this with the new unlimited free unbreakable is severely imbalanced
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No they won’t. They will just come to the forums, under multiple accounts and whine until the devs cave in to their demands and make the game easier for them.
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But you have to be cursed to get back up as it currently as it stands. And you only have the Endurance effect for 8 seconds max. That isn’t even enough time to get out of a Dead Zone for most M2 killer or M1 with high mobility. I don’t see it as being OP not do I think survivors are just going to stack a bunch of “get myself back up perks” together. You only get 4 perks and wasting more than 1 perk on 2nd chance perks is unwise. You need to be able to heal, do gens, have some type of Killer awareness, potential exhaustion perks, potential gen awareness etc etc…I’d like to see the changes in play and also see how the changes effect numbers before crying OP. Playing Killer needs to be a little more intense as the current kill rate and play style is tanking the game especially for SoloQ survivors.
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