https://dbd.game/4rHHkF5
The DC Penalty Should Be Removed
I know, I know. Controversial statement, but hear me out.
Because of the recent explosion of cheating (again), I think it's time we look at the DC penalty and evaluate it. As of right now, I don't think it's worth keeping in the game. Here's why.
The penalty doesn't actually stop or dissuade people from leaving the match. How many DC's do you see on a regular basis? For me, it's quite a few. How many people do you see give up on Hook? For me, it's a lot. Between the amount of people who just DC combined with the amount of people who suicide on hook, I'd say it's about equal to how it was prior to the DC penalty being added. If people want out of a game, they can't (and shouldn't) be forced to stay.
The penalty affects people who don't want to DC more than people who do DC. We all know the situation with cheaters and content creators right now. They are being forced to either DC and rack up penalties or to sit through a 2-hour hostage situation. Every time I see someone DC on Xbox and I look at their profile, they've either already shut off their Xbox (meaning that penalty is completely meaningless to them) or they've switched to another game, which also makes the penalty meaningless to them.
Now, you might say, "Well Pulsar, people would DC at the slightest inconvenience prior to the DC penalty, why would you want that back?" That's a great point. However, to counter it, I ask you to look around. Those people who DC'd before at the slightest inconvenience? They just kill themselves on hook, go AFK, purposefully seek out the Killer to throw the game or they DC. It's not really changed anything.
With the queue times being pretty good on both sides right now, the hacker situation and the general state of the game, I've come to believe that DC's penalties no longer make sense and that they are doing more harm than good. I'd rather be able to go next than to be stuck in a game where someone is cheating or if I suspect someone is cheating. We need a better system, you can't stop people from leaving the match but you can minimize the damage they inflict.
Comments
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Ah yes, because people ragequit, we should make it even easier for them by letting them not even have to wait for a hook. Amazing.
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No, because people ragequit and the current system doesn't seem to dissuade them at all, we should remove the system and replace it with something better since it seems to only actually punish people who don't want to DC.
Post edited by Pulsar on9 -
They could just cap it at 5 minutes temporarily and I think that would be an okay bandaid for the cheater issue
I mean, I don't like suggesting it but it's better than nothing
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They could and that's not a bad idea.
What's the positive of even keeping it though?
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Just so there's at least something stopping people from doing what they used to do before the penalty
"Killer I don't like? *DC sound* "
"I went down first 3 games in a row? *DC sound*"
and so on. Plus I think 5 minutes is a decent cool-off time for people who are mad/tilted. (Talking from experience here)
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I'm not sure that's all that controversial of a statement anymore
I don't think I'd be for it but I can understand why some would be but I'm not running into the amount of cheaters some are. I don't know if it's my MMR, my region, my luck, or a combination of things but I've seen maybe three cheaters playing this game ever...like...period. So this big cheaterpaluza thing happening isn't something I'm seeing at all.
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Yeah no thank you. The number of games I've had ruined by DCing VASTLY outnumbers the games I've had ruined by cheating. Like maybe 3 or 4 games ever by cheating, and every 6th or 7th game I play by actual DCs. If you don't think removing the penalty for dcing won't increase the number of people doing so, you are fooling yourself. All you are doing is helping to normalize ragequitting even more than it already is.
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Here's the thing.
That still happens. You see it all the time with Nurse, Pinhead, Legion ect ect. It's just as bad as it was before the DC penalty. There was a thread asking people to stop DC'ing against Nurse just the other week.
Likewise, when people go down first, they either DC or kill themselves on hook. You see it all the time as Survivor.
I really don't think it's doing anything to stop people from getting out of the match.
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I don't think it will.
You've already said that the DC penalty is ineffective at actually stopping people from DC'ing or suiciding on hook. I played for two years prior to the penalty being added and at this point, it's almost exactly the same as it was before.
People will still DC when they hear a Nurse. People will DC when they get downed first. People will DC when they get tunneled.
The penalty isn't doing anything.
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No thanks.
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Why not?
Do you think the DC penalty is making people stay in the game?
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Because I would rather take a cheater once or twice a week than experience solo q with penalties off again.
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I am well on record as being vehemently opposed to ditching the DC penalty, and I am very much against special treatment, but I can see a case for eliminating the DC penalty for content creators, because they are disproportionately affected by cheaters. Players with high visibility should be whitelisted.
Yes, everyone experiences cheating in some way shape or form, but most of us only really feel a fraction of what streamers do, and much less "hostage taking", which is the only form of cheating that would be addressed by getting rid of the penalty.
This is a really difficult situation to address. On its face, ditching the DC penalty seems like an obvious way to address one of the symptoms of the cheating disease, but it will exacerbate an issue that is far more prevalent (chronic disconnectors).
What's to be done? I don't know, but one thing I am sure of is that replacing one problem by making a bigger one worse is not the play.
More often than that for me. Like one of every three games I play has a DC or obvious suicide on hook that all but ruins the game.
Put it in people's heads that they can DC freely because of cheating, they'll start seeing it everywhere anytime something doesn't go their way. Everyone will be "moving a little too fast", "getting gens done a little too quick", etc. Everything will becomes a justification to bail, and those who are already prone to it will do it without compunction.
It would get completely out of hand, as it's nearly to that point already. It'd be a match shopping meta.
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I can agree with that.
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While I absolutely agree something must be done about the hostagetaking cheaters (and not even only cheaters, but regular "softer" rule breakers as well) I personally prefer a solution that has something in place to disincentivize "I don't like the map/killer/that the first survivor I chased sentient/whatever" DCs.
I'd be fine with DCs going unpunished after X minutes have passed. Not too sure about the exact number, under normal circumstances I'd say something like 15-20 minutes, as a temporary mitigation for cheaters make it 5 minutes or something I don't care. Sure beats potentially having to tank a DC penalty or wait until the 2 hour server time-out thingy.
Completely unrestricted disconnects have made the game completely miserable to play and that was my experience any time they were temporarily disabled for any reason. I do believe that someone that has decided they no longer want to play will just go for the good old AFK if all else fails, but I also do genuinely believe that making it even slightly less convenient to get out for the sillier reasons like the ones mentioned above means it happens less often. At least in my personal experience, that's the case.
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Do you not already get people DC'ing or giving up in most Solo Q games?
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A lot of them, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think it would get much worse than it already is. And it's already a bigger problem than cheating for most players.
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To my eyes, the DC penalty isn't doing anything anymore.
People DC or AFK or attempt on hook JUST as much as they DC'd prior to the penalty being added.
I would rather my teammate be replaced with a bot if they DC than to have the DC penalty still in place.
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No, I don't think it will be a bigger issue.
The people who are prone to DC at the slightest inconvenience already do. The penalty system clearly doesn't stop them.
Why keep a system that doesn't actually work? Why not replace it with the bot system suggested a long time ago?
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The DC penalty system is the one stopgate keeping DCing from turning from a moderate problem to an all-out disaster.
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Do you want it increased tenfold so it becomes even better?
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I really don't think that's true.
It already is an all-out disaster and it's just as bad as it was before the DC penalty system was in place.
The penalty system should have been temporary. They should've continued with the bot replaces DC'd player idea.
Instead, we have a penalty system that doesn't seem to actually stop people from ruining matches.
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I disagree in that I think there are plenty of people who would like to DC but don't because they want to keep playing or already got the 5 min and want to avoid the next step. Call them people with a shred of impulse control.
At the absolute least, leave the penalty in place until the bots are implemented.
But I think the real (well, best plausible) solution is stronger anti-cheat, and/or auto hardware/IP bans.
Like I alluded to earlier, being taken hostage consistently is almost exclusively a content creator problem. For the 99%, it's primarily subtle cheaters, and eliminating the penalty does nothing for that, so I don't even see the potential reward here, but a fair amount of risk.
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Think back to before the DC penalty was added. How many games had a meaningful DC? 1 in 3, for me.
Think to right now, how many games have a DC, suicide, AFK or throwing player in them? Probably about the same, for me.
I'll even concede that it will probably get worse after you turn them off, for a bit. That doesn't change the fact that the system doesn't work.
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Think back to when dc penalties got turned off after it became a thing for a while.
How do you rate you experience during that time? Remember all the threads complaining about it?
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The fact of the matter is it does work, not perfectly, but it does.
I can admit i have had matches id love to just dc from, where I've stuck it out because i don't want the dc penalty.
As to the ones who just do it anyways at the very least the penalty stops them from queueing up for a bit to allow other players to try and get a good match.
Removing the penalty would make it seem like its fine and natural to do and that it doesnt matter, when it does matter and shouldnt be normalized.
I could get behind a temporary cap on the dc penalty but behaviour needs to just get the cheating situation in check and thats what they should be working on instead of this final mori/basekit unbreakable garbage.
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I mean, it'd let you DC if you see someone cheating.
Everybody that I've seen who DC's (on Xbox) just goes to a different game or gets off the console because if the game is unfun enough that they'd DC, they're just gonna play something worth their time.
I would agree that letting it stay until bots are added would be fine, but I don't think BHVR would do that.
I think a good middle ground would be to not give people a penalty after someone else has DC'd and to not give a penalty after X amount of time has passed in the match.
Here's Ardetha talking about some of the issues currently in the game and some possible solutions for them
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My experience during that time was fine, I was more concerned with the performance issues, iirc.
Killer queues were fast, so I didn't care if people DC'd.
I didn't see many Killers DC during that time and when they did, it wasn't a big deal. We'd just get into the next match.
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It doesn't work well enough, which is why I would actually be in favor of increasing it.
DC once? 5 minutes.
DC twice? 15 minutes.
DC thrice? Yeah, you're done for the day.
DC multiple times in your next play session? You're done for a week.
Again, if we can get a good filler bot solution in place, we can ditch the penalty. But until then, drop the hammer on casual disconnectors.
I can think of plenty of solutions that would be nice if they were plausible (like an anti cheat that disables the penalty for DCing from a match where cheating is detected), but they seem kind of pie-in-the-sky.
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They've clearly demonstrated that they either can't or won't get the cheaters under control.
I linked an Ardetha video where they talk about the server to client interaction in DBD and some really scary ######### these people can do.
If I was playing on Steam and got a pop-up like they did, I'd DC so ######### fast you have no idea.
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I think it should be removed too tbh, it's not stopping people from dc'ing on purpose. Also the game tends to crash and add a dc penalty onto that so, there's really nothing good that comes from it. Especially now I guess hackers can cause you to dc and get a penalty as well...
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What I think it could have was a voting system, if one surv gave DC in the match the other survs could vote for the match to end without being penalized, but being able to leave whenever you want I don't think it's a good idea.
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You would see a huge drop in the casual playerbase if you do that AND you'd hurt content creators AND people who play on Console. Also, so what if you make the penalties longer? They can AFK or suicide on hook almost as easily as disconnecting.
The casual player doesn't give a single ######### about penalties, that's been my whole point. If the game isn't fun, they're gonna move on to the next match. If they're told that they're banned for a day, they're gonna play something else that doesn't promote incredible toxicity in it's community, unfun strategies and cheating in it's community.
Content creators would be absolutely ######### by this change. Get sniped 4 times? That's it, you're done for a week? Good luck finding people to play your game if you punish them for playing.
And console players. Yikes man. I've been booted off 5 times in a DAY by people on Xbox, extreme example, but I made my point.
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However bad you think it is, it gets monumentally worse if you remove the penalty.
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Every time it's been disabled, it's been than it was prior to it's disabling, that much is true. However, I'd say we are already on that level.
Do a weekend test and see if it gets worse.
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Sure it's not stopping many, but if you tell people "Hey, if you don't like (X) thing, just hit escape and in two minutes we'll have in a whole new match!" more will take advantage of it, especially with the current state of the game and community. I'd prefer to increase the penalties, even with DCing myself once or twice a day due to my internet. It's just gotten to the point where if it gets much worse, there's little point in playing if every other match is ruined by a DC.
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How about, and just hear me out in the interest of healthy debate, no.
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Why keep a system that punishes innocent players, like you, if it doesn't even fix the problem it was designed to solve?
Make a new system and replace this one.
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I'm just counting actual DCs that ruin the match and not ones that are inconsequential or the hook suicides. Otherwise it would be 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 matches.
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So you aren't actually interested in seeing if it would be better or worse.
Damn, I'm really disappointed that you decided to take that route.
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What do you mean that I'm not interested? We've already seen the end result more than once, and it's miserable. I have no reason to believe that testing misery for a limited time is a good idea by any stretch of the imagination.
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Hook suicides and inconsequential DC's are effectively the exact same thing though.
You are leaving the game early either skirting around the penalty or eating it.
You should count those.
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People have different experiences.
It can be easy to forget, but the Forums aren't full of casual players. We're the weirdos in the community that care too much, ya know? What we find miserable and objectionable probably doesn't even register on the casual players radar.
I think it's worth seeing what the average player thinks. There's no better way to do that than by turning them off and then posting a survey in the in-game news.
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Maybe not fix, but keeps from being worse. And as I said, maybe it's because it doesn't go far enough.
If you have a realistic alternative that you think would work, I'd love to hear it and if I agreed, i'd support it.
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The only people who don't mind excessive DCing are people who DC and you.
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Make a bot system.
If someone DC's, add a bot using their build/items/add-ons and with their hook state if it was a Survivor.
Bots can be different based off of that match/players MMR.
Remove the DC penalty.
Everyone wins. The person who DC's gets to move on to another match. The players in the match aren't cucked over by being down a teammate. The Killer doesn't lose out on a ton of BP because someone DC'd.
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Thanks for the insult, I think?
It seems like you're getting upset and we aren't getting anywhere, so I'm going to suggest we just leave it, sound good?
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No upset here. I simply think this is enough of a bad idea that it's about as close to "objectively bad" as one can get without actually being objectively bad (purely on the grounds that it is technically your opinion to disagree).
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Again, I would whitelist content creators, since they are the ones being targeted far, far more often than virtually everyone else. Yeah, people would cry about how unfair that is, but most players simply aren't seeing the worst of this at even a fraction of the rate that streamers are.
The blatant cheaters want visibility. So when I hear Otz, SpookyLoopz, etc. talk about how the DC penalty should be removed, I agree. For them. What is being done to them isn't being done to like 95% of DBD players.
And I hate the logic of "well, they can get out of the game one way, so we shouldn't bother closing off other ways". You address what you can, not give up because oyu can't adress everything.
And DCing can be done almost instantly. Being carried to a hook gives you at least a few seconds to chill and re-think after that initial impulse hits.
And if you're getting booted multiple times a day, you probably shouldn't be playing. In fact, if you kept trying to play after being booted 4 times already, you're kinda being a jerk.
I play primarily on console, and I have been booted and penalized maybe 10 times total in almost three years.
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I'd 100% be down for that, and that may be a viable alternative this winter if BHVR is still on track with the custom match bots. Right now however, they don't exist, and even when they exist, there are big questions as to how well they will work.
Sort those two things out and I'm with you.
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