Are there any killers that DON’T proxy camp & tunnel anymore?
I swear to god… it’s just non-stop. Like 70% of my games are Wesker and they ALL either clearly proxy camp the hook or they loose proxy camp by leaving but as soon as the unhook happens they shoot back directly to the hook to either tunnel or get a cheap hit on the rescuer. I take my 4% chances on all of these games. It’s just no fun.
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I avoid tunneling when I can, but I'm always coming back to the hook if I don't know where anyone else is and I don't have a chase underway. There's at least two people there - why would I not?
You say it's a cheap hit, but why should I do a loop around the map and allow a free reset on the hopes I find someone on gens when I know where half the team is right now? Downtime is how you lose and it's your job as killer to make sure you're pressuring survivors at all times.
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I mean I tended to not do it but I don’t see the point in avoiding it anymore. People don’t appreciate playing the game for fun and instead only wanna win so I’ll just play the same
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If somebody is not in chase already and is nearby the hook why would they not return and go for the rescuer? They're not tunneling by going for the rescuer and, if they do leave the area but just return, they're not camping. Not returning would be letting the survivors reset. The Killer might do that but that's pure generosity by the Killer.
I really don't understand complaining about Killers that leave the area but come back to the hook. There's nothing cheap about that.
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I dont camp or tunnel, I think the only match I ever "tunneled" (in heavy quotations) was literally last match where I chased these two guys only because they were pretty damn good and fun to chase... I care more about the chase aspect of DbD more than anything so uh yea, sitting in a single place or hitting someone right after an unhook is super boring for both sides.
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It doesn't feel fun when you're selected to be hard-camped/hard-tunneled, but the community did this
The community begged for "SBMM" and all of their favorite cosmetics/licensed chapters instead of Map/Perk/Survivor/Killer reworks. The community ignored the fact that BHVR falsely advertised SBMM in the year leading up to it and then reimplemented the same system they already tried before (Escape/Kill based MMR). The community ignored people that pointed out how placing all of the importance on only Escapes/Kills would increase frustrating gameplay from both sides. The community ignores and continues to ignore the unbalanced cluster**ck that the highest percentiles create and how that all trickles down when those same players cross paths with less experienced ones. Most of the community refuses to respect Killers even if they're better than the Survivor 1v1 in chase, they don't even respect most Kills now either but then they're also surprised at Killers only caring about securing the win
Certain adjustments/improvements have been made but they don't even matter much anymore. The changes are often done late and at the wrong times according to the climate. They don't reverse the damage that took/takes place during the periodic radio silence that BHVR is known for either
Take the recent spree of Streamers speaking out to BHVR about the increased frequency of cheating for example. BHVR is the type to go weeks/months without addressing something like this and then will finally add it to a surprise set of patch notes almost a year later when people already expressed all their frustration, took a break or left and coped with the fact that changes barely ever happen when they're actually needed the most
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The definition for camping and tunneling is so lose that I’ll be name called no matter what. I try to play nice until two gens pop. Then I’m getting name called.
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The problem is these killers got to where they are by playing that way. They are super boosted and shouldn't be at the mmr they are currently at, but if they play any differently they will start getting trounced by survivors who are better than the killer. Camp/tunneling the first hook every game gives them a chance to play against better players and still maybe win.
It essentially turns it into a 1v1 game, killer vs survivor being tunneled. Super boring playstyle, but it is the strongest way to play right now, and there are lots of killer players on this forum who need to win no matter how balanced a match is, so...here we are.
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It typically isn't a cheap hit on the rescuer since you can hear the approach. I personally only like to go back to hook when everyone else is hiding or otherwise not taking aggro, or to punish 45-59s rescues. If you want to gen b4 fren I will force an extra hook state to punish your greed. I typically hate doing that though because the one punished isn't the one being the bad teammate, but I can't force the extra hook state on the cowards instead so what can you do.
I also like to go for the rescuer because Survivors typically send the least hooked Survivor for rescues, so I can spread hooks as evenly as possible by going for the rescuer. I typically only tunnel if the rescuer immediately hides after unhook or the rescued Survivor decides to bodyblock with Endurance. I didn't want to chase you, but either you told me to chase you again or your coward teammate killed you.
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Lots of salient responses. I agree with pretty much all of them but the ones basically saying ‘why wouldn’t i go back - it’s easy’ and ‘it’s not cheap’ are the ones that make me sad and pretty much sum it up. Yes, it IS cheap, But I understand it. Of course people will take the easiest path to victory when they can. And once you take the logical easy road it can be hard to look at it objectively and realize that yes, it works well but maybe isn’t really how the game was intended to be played. It’s a design flaw in the game.
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Do you leave a gen at 75%+ to go work on one at 0%? No? Why would a killer be expected to also make poor decisions? The fact that you call it "loose proxying" make me wonder what the definition of that even is.
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Ok,so now we can’t go after the rescuer anymore either.I guess that’s on page 5679 paragraph 4 of the survivors rule book for killers.Got it,will always allow free hook rescues.
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I don't camp.
"Tunneling" needs clearer definitions as 99.9% of tunneling whining boils down to "the killer walked forward and I think that's unfair".
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Haha. Survivor rule book. It’s funny cuz other killers say it.
Look harder for the point - it’s easy to use the hook as the watering hole.
It’s also boring, cheap play. Do you think this game is supposed to be: “Try to survive the killer who hooks your teammate then guards the living ######### out of them which also is likely to slow down your gen progress as a side effect since you want to prevent your teammate from having an awful game, so you make saves right in front of the killer and then your teammate gets tunnelled and quits because that’s a crappy way to play… and now you have to do the same thing but with a 3 man team”…. No. It’s supposed to be a killer that lurks around trying to kill all of us. Not a killer that hangs out at the hook and waits for people to come by to kill them because its sensible and efficient for them.
and you can’t compare survivor play to killer play. Your comparison isn’t reasonable. Leaving a gen at 75% to go start another in killer terms is more like being 75% done with a good chase and abandoning it. 1 single thing. You’re defending an easy play style because it works to make your job easier and give you more wins thus bolstering your belief you’re a good killer. Sorry but in MY definition a good killer is one that applies map pressure and beats me in chases. Not someone who wins by guarding hooks and getting cheap hits. That’s an aberration of this game that has become the meta.
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You don't see them much because they lose all the time, so they're at low MMR.
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Most of them quit, stopped using nonviable strategies, or just lose a lot.
You never know the calibur you're going against until they have been able to either secure an early burst contribution toward their goal, or completely fall apart and are unable to do so before losing multiple chases. There just generally isn't enough time to adapt your playstyle on reaction, you have to assume how they're going to play and approach it preemptively. And since strats like tunneling and camping have their efficiency limit be determined pretty much solely on how quickly they can be accomplished, they're extremely frequent lowest common demoninator strats for that purpose. And most importantly, they have absolutely no reason outside of empathy or handicapping themselves to do otherwise.
A lot of people kept playing fair until they just stopped playing altogether, while some always played scummy and others adapted to what works more consistently, i.e playing scummy. It sucks but its the state of the game, and i never begrudge killers who i see use scummy tactics while not bming or anything like that. There's a surprising amount of the nurture vs nature debate in this game and its community.
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I mostly just camo and tunnel. I don't see any reason not to.
I've tried games here I don't, but they don't always turn out that way...back to camping I go in em.
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I don't. I don't care about winning as much as everyone having a normal experience. If the team is more coordinated than I can handle, then good on them. They outplayed me and deserve to win.
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blame the devs for forcing the killer to play in that way with their changes... and i'll tell you more: it will get a lot worse once the unbrekable as basekit patch will go live...
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Yeah, sorry, we aren't mindless moths chasing the light (survivor) in front of us and don't necessarily enjoy getting looped around the same stone three time until the pallet drop and then to the next or a window or whatever.
Tile chaining and abundant delay resources make that playstyle really tedious and checking back for 2 maybe not as skilled looping targets is just the logical thing.
And about
And once you take the logical easy road it can be hard to look at it objectively and realize that yes, it works well but maybe isn’t really how the game was intended to be played
I haven't seen that done by survivor at any point when they were in the lead. Full throttle no matter how the killer played.
So, sorry if the other killers didn't quit like me or step of the gas for your fun.
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there is no such thing as "proxy camping" stop making things up. I swear everything is camping for some of you guys. if the killer is not even in the area then it's proxy camping. No matter what, if the killer doesn't go somewhere else where there are no survivors, then it is CAMPIIIING lol give me a break.
Some people come up with all sort of nonsense :)) Not long ago some guy blamed me for "gen camping" because why did I COME BACK to a gen I previously kicked??? Gen campeeer haha.
If you don't RUN away from survivors instead of after them, no matter what you do, it counts as camping for some of these people.
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I mean most Huntress plays the same, but somehow no one ever complains about it ?
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leave it be :)) the dude is just making things up with his "proxy camping" nonsense lol
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Proxy camping is a real thing, though I honestly think the distinction is most important because it shows how fair it is compared to something like face camping. You're not defending the hook the survivor is on specifically, but more the area of the map it is located at. The reason is obviously because of the pressure the hooked survivor provides, but the objective is to locate and cut off people who approach rather than try to force that person to stay there until they die (and is usually done for the purpose of finding a new target to transfer said pressure to, rather than giving it up entirely by just roaming.) I also only usually see proxy campers circle back to the hook if they're following someone, or the hook state is about to roll over and they want to confirm it before moving away. If someone was/is running a perk like BBQ and see no auras after the hook, its literally the logical choice for them to do.
If anything, I think specifying camping as proxy camping is admitting that its a more reasonable strategy. Anyone who tries to use it to group that kind of play with things like hitting people on the hook and nodding is just looking for things the other side succeeds at to complain about. Generally its just a product of frustration at having their save attempt be denied "and then getting tunneled" because the killer commits.
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Yes, and then I get 8 hooks, everyone on death hook, 4 people tbagging me in the gate with a nice "gg ez git gut baby killer" in endgame chat.
Always funny how survivors can play as efficient as possible (sacrificing on gens etc) but when a killer plays efficiently its lame
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there is no actual proxy camping, people make nonsense up. We are talking about INTENDED part of the game by design. Why do you think there is a yellow aura around the hook with a hooked survivor? Why do you think there is a LOUD noise notification FOR the killer when somebody is unhooked? It's part of the game we play it's part of signals killer use which direct them where they can go to find survivors. The killer is simply playing the game as intended
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Why are you arguing with me? I literally just defended proxy camping as a valid strategy, and one that deserves no negative connotation.
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Oh I'm not arguing with you at all. I am talking about this made up stuff they named now "proxy camping" I just find it ridiculous that OP comes up with new words. But I heard many nonsense over the years. like "gen camping" "slug camping" . Now it's "proxy camping" meaning.... not even in the area, but why is the killer coming back at all? haha He should stay away! ignore those noise notifications which are deliberate part of the game to signal survivor activity, he shouldn't play the game as intended because otherwise no matter what the killer does, it's some sort of camping :))
I simply find the name of this behavior ridiculous, and I'm making fun of OP "proxy camping" lol
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Played a couple killer matches earlier. Didn't camp, tunnel, slug, 3-gen etc.
Was an amazing 11 "legit" hook match without any cheap trade hooks that allowed everyone to equally play the game.
Unfortunately most people don't care about gameplay. They just wanna win so they'll do whatever is the easiest way to win.
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Its called proxy camping because you are camping their location by proxy. Not directly, but rather the overall area around it. Its a concept thats existed since people in arena based fps used it for defending areas where resources (re)spawn around the map. It just means to pressure an area while not being directly in the center of it and instead hovering around its fringes (aka defending the reward within it "by proxy")
People can misuse it and apply connotations to it all they want, but it both exists as a concept and is a valid strategic option.
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well yeah I'm proxy camping the map we are in. You know because I do patrol it. I'm proxy camping the whole map since I go after survivors and I don't leave the game I suppose. Every place is proxy camped because I will go (or return) where I believe there are people to be found. My proxy camp covers the map.
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Thats a bit of an unfair assumption. There's a difference between wanting to win and wanting to win at all costs, and wanting to win is not mutually exclusive to playing the game to have fun., neither of which is mutually exclusive to "not wanting the match to feel terrible."
Since up to three gens can pop before you reasonably get your first hook, and multiple aspects of your intended gameplay can outright be denied (including said hook,) its completely understandable when some would rather prepare for the worst than assume the best. Honestly its an extremely conditioned response, which is why its no surprise that the liklihood of adapting to what works over whats fun (including for that player themselves) feels like it gets higher the longer people play. A combination of other players making their games feel miserable and being punished for trying to be fair goes a long way to changing a person's outlook on the potential of their opponents.
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Thats not a proxy, then. The concept of a proxy is when one entity represents another, in this case the area the survivor is in is representative of themselves. You are defending that area because doing so means you are defending that person. The scope needs to be reasonable or the representation part doesn't really make sense: You would break it down to say you are defending the loop they are hooked at, maybe its a nice lil jungle gym or a bottleneck in a map like autohaven, the area around the surgical theatre in lerys, and so on. There needs to be strategic relevance between the location and its contents.
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So much to unpack here.
Firstly you are assuming that ALL wesker players are "proxy camping". This is a bold statement putting all players who play wesker into the same catagory.
Secondly "Proxy Camping" is another word for smart gameplay. 9 times out of 10 the reason the killer is keeping near ish a hook is because they have no idea where anyone else is. Why leave an area you know survivors have to go just to risk finding no one.
this style of gameplay is absolutly fair for the killer to do and its something I will do if i have no information on where anyone is. Considering a lot of killers still use BBQ then if they get no info on BBQ the survivors must be nearby. This isnt camping this is hunting.
Lastly your use of "Loose Proxy Camping" just because a killer returns to a hook is so funny. I understand that the survivor handbook sais "Thou shall not return to the hook untill someone else is hooked" but you are expecting killers to ignore information given to them just so you can get healed and do gens? Yeah sure.
If you are taking your 4% chance every game a killer is on the side of the map as the hook then the killer isnt the issue in these matches. The issue is you as your purposly ending the game on hook because your salty you got hooked. This ruins the game for the rest of the survivors.
My advise is to take a step back and really think about the games you play. Yes Camping and Tunneling is an issue as some killers take it to far but on the other side of that Camping and Tunneling (And slugging in some situations) is the smartest play for the killer to make so they don't throw the entire game.
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the concept of "camping" is staying in an area and not leaving it. Proxy camping is just a made up thing we can call being on the map proxy camping since we are camping the whole map otherwise and it starts sounding quite ridiculous. Camping only applies if someone stays in one place and doesn't leave. So there is no such thing as proxy camping because that's not camping anymore.
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Thats not how this works. Thats not how any of this works.
I feel like you're just stuck on someone using it to ascribe negative meaning onto the term and being defensive over that more than trying to understand the concept.
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Never get camped and I don't camp when I play killer so....
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If you want absolutely to win, and put all chances on your side, you do that. Thats the game design currently.
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There are still those of us who wanna have a good time rather than making winning the priority.
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Yeah I only disagree with it's wording. Calling such action where the killer simply goes back to a previous area as "proxy camping" because I find that ridiculous that's all. Basically by that logic everything is camping. If it's not actual camping, than it's proxy camping. I just think calling it that is ridiculous. Not disagreeing with you about strategies. I disagree with the wording
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You 100% were! In every game! As I see it depends on your personal sensitivities. Because for some people everything is camping. And you might be among those players who don't call every single action they dislike in a game "camping". It's refreshing to see less salty players like you.
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So you’re saying that you prefer to have 2 people sitting on gens rather than just one?
if you go back to hook you have 2 ppl on gens,
if you go for someone else, you have one on hook, one rescuing and one in chase and one on gen.
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I don't.=)
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I usually make a beeline away from a survivor i just hooked because i want to put pressure on a third survivor assuming a second is on the way to unhook the first. Now sorry, but normally I will immediately return or not leave in the first place if:
- I spot you hiding out a few meters away waiting to unhook.
- you unhook before my TR has even gone from the area of the hook. Smaller indoor maps are an exception, but rule of thumb, if it's a straight shot back and I can be back in under 6-7 seconds, I'm coming for the rescuer.
- I run into you heading toward the hook as I'm leaving and you continue towards the hook.
Unless I'm almost 100% confident I've got the game in the bag, I'll head back to the area of the hook under these conditions and while an outside observer just sees me down someone near the hook and thinks "oh he's camping" I'm 100% justified in those plays as it's the survivors screwing up while I'm giving an absolutely fair chance to safely unhook.
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its going to even increase with infinite unbreakable basekit.
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No, if the Killer doesn't go back to hook there are 2 people on gens soon to be four since it was specified 'if I can't find someone else'. Nobody is in chase in that situation. The only opportunity the Killer has in that situation to keep up the 3 occupied one survivor on gens model is to chase the rescuer and then get a '1 in chase 2 healing 1 on gens' situation.
If the Killer doesn't it becomes a '2 healing 2 on gens' soon to become a '4 on gens' scenario if someone isn't found right away.
There's nothing cheap or bad about returning to chase the rescuer. The recently unhooked person still has a chance to play as much as can be expected in any asymmetrical game format and the rescuer now gets to go into a chase (which is a very fun part of the game).
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I don't do both at the beginning of the game but more so depend on the situation on hand tbh.
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I'm not camping and tunneling unless I have a good reason to.
Usually a tunnel for me happens like this: I patrol to every gen that I should reasonably defend, find nothing, go back to the unhook, and rescuer is nowhere in sight.
Camping is similar. I've patrolled, found nothing or I've been led in chase back to the hook (you're throwing if you do this on survivor, pay attention to where you're running), and now the hook stage is close enough that I can secure the next stage and re-patrol.
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Okay.
Your definition of 'proxy camp' seems to encompass literally anything the killer does to defend the hook.
I don't camp, but yeah - if I hook someone and I can't find anyone, damn straight I'm going to patrol back in order to try and catch the unhooker. What's wrong with that?
Bingo.
I swear, literally: 'killer exists' = 'killer is camping' or 'killer is tunneling'. Had a game yesterday where the same Bill would get unhooked and immediately start doing the closest gen in my face. I killed him and he and his duo partner cussed me out in postgame for tunneling.
It's sort of useless in DbD though as, especially on territorial killers, it basically means 'playing that killer as intended'.
I have no idea what exactly the OP is looking for here.
No, it's not.
You aren't guaranteed completely safe unhooks.
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Why proxy camp? Well BBQ was used mainly for blood points however it also was used to locate survivors far from the hook, incentivizing the killer to go where the survivors were. As a bonus the killer would go to get another stack.
And yes it didn't matter for many killers as let's look at things logically. You chase a survivor. Maybe get a few Pallets down. That section of the map is now weaker for the survivors. Thus easier for the killer to chase and get a hit.
Now looking at Gen setup, say you hook someone in an area with 3 or 4 gens. That's 3 or 4 gens in a part of the map with less resources for survivors to use. That in itself is incentive to stay in the area.
Now since BBQ is used less, there is almost no way to know where other survivors are, and less incentive to hook multiple survivors.
So why walk across the map to maybe find another survivor? In an area that has more resources for survivors?
Knowing that someone has to come rescue the recently hooked person, a killer will patrol the area that is more of a survivor dead zone looking for the person coming for the rescue. Most of the time the killer finds them. Sometimes they find 2 of them.
Now hitting the recently unhooked, even when not planning on tunneling is a smart thing to do as it forces a mending action which is time off gens.
Tl:Dr basically blame the game design. There's no incentive to leave the hook or the area. Especially in newer players that aren't very good.
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Alright, then explain to me what I'm supposed to be doing.
I'm running around the map looking for someone. I don't know where any survivors are - they might be on gens, they might be going towards the hook, they might all be in corners for all I know. The unhook notification goes off. I now know two survivors are there. What should I do? And if it's not "go back to the hook", can you give me an answer that isn't "because I don't like it?"
I was following you until you floated this idea that I'm not even allowed to go after the unhooker because that's 'cheap.' Like... I don't even know what to say to that. I'm already being generous by ignoring the injured unhooked guy and letting them scuttle off to get healed. But apparently not allowing a heal under the hook and a totally safe unhook scenario is 'sad.'
If I can't find anyone by the time the unhook goes off - generally I was already patrolling gens in this scenario. So for all I know, they're not on gens and they're all going for the save, or they're booning, or hiding near the gens, or anything else. Either that, or the unhooker didn't wait for me to get anywhere before they unhooked.
I will take guaranteed pressuring two survivors over maybe not pressuring anyone every single time unless I'm straight-up giving survivors a break and playing against my own interests.
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