Something else needs to be addressed
Now if the new base-kit Unbreakable changes go through, which I'm sure they will in some form at least, there needs to be a fix to TERRIBLE hook distribution on some maps.
Things like the corners of Haddonfield and Badham, and the entirety of Midwich and RPD absolutely need to be changed because it is physically impossible to hook a survivor in some locations on these maps. I think a great fix to some maps would simply be making it so that when a survivor is sacrificed on a hook the hook only breaks for a short time and then comes back, similar to how Saboteur currently works.
If this isn't changed before base-kit Unbreakable is added then it will result in a toxic mess on some maps where even without a sabo-squad it is physically impossible to hook someone, and then if left on the ground they will simply pick themselves back up.
And I can already see (hopefully very few) people saying "Well just run: [PERK] and it will be fine!" but no, a player being forced to run a perk to make doing their objective even possible is nonsense and a silly argument overall.
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You mean like how survivors are pigeonholed into bringing specific perks to counter core problems? Killers can sacrifice a perk slot and bring Iron Grasp. Besides, outside of sabo-breakout squads, it's not really a problem.
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People have been pointing out the hook distance issue for years. It just gets ignored. Because wiggling off a killer's grasp is really fun for survivors i guess.
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That's that bias speaking.
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agreed, hook placement should be addressed - there should be a minimum and maximum distance for hooks. Hook dead zones seem just as unhealthy as hooks that are very close to each other.
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Agitation is far superior and this issue should 10000% be fixed since it would just drag matches for both sides if the killer is forced to slug a guy in the corner.
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Outside of midwitch that still gets highest killrate of all maps. I haven't seen single case of survivor wiggling free if killer did not do some kind of mistake (RPD library and buffed boil-over excluded - but that got fixed looong ago) or if it wasn't some good play from survivors (yes 3 people blocking hook in endgame is valid survivors strategy how to help last carried survivor). There are still so many tools for killer (forced stagger effect, zombies, doing 2 steps for 1 hook and then going for different one, checking if survivors try to sabo) + to get this survivors must leave generators which in a long run is killer's win.
Also hook spawns work so, that -> just try to get a successful sabo play on saloon. I dare you. I am pretty sure you don't play sabo build ever, because you would not be able to write the things you have written. Even perfect sabo play means nothing on the game or saloon (or almost all the maps with little bit bad RNG). If anything, the 15m minimal hook range should be higher.
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Outside of sabo-breakout squads, there's minimal chance of the survivor wiggling free from the killer's grasp unless the killer happened to get greedy.
In my 1300 hours of playing, I have never seen hooks too far apart for the killer to possibly make it unless the survivors all brought the offering to increase distance between hooks.
So, killers can afford to give up one of their four gen regression perks for iron grasp or agitation. Whichever's preferable, really.
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That's off topic. Killers are pigeon held to bring gen regression because of how fast gens are flying with the gen rushing meta. That's also just as off topic.
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Or quite simply, do not try to do 4K.
Aim for 3K max and let the last survivor go.
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Hook distribution is an issue in some current matches sure, but I very rarely find myself in a situation that often where I can't reach a hook unless a survivor has done a sabo play, which at that point is team-work and people off of gens, so I'm less fussed about it. That said, I have rarely had a couple situations in Midwich/RPD/The Game where this is an issue, so it would be good for them to have a look at it, for sure.
I also personally think that hooks being permanently sabo'd when a survivor is sacrificed is an outdated mechanic that, if this change goes through for survivors to pick themselves up (which I support) should also no longer occur so the killer can't find themselves with hook dead zones where hook RNG has been less than favourable. That said, I also appreciate now with Scourge Hooks that losing one permanently adds a level of strategy to them, which I also don't particularly want to entirely disappear. Maybe the Scourge can disappear if a survivor is sacrificed on it, but the hook remains to balance that out.
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Killers should not be forced to run either perk ever, and there are many times where u can be left without hooks (rpd, midwich etc) has happened to me plenty of times especially with oaks. Sometimes even though there is a hook that is just in range all it takes is 1 sabo or bodyblock.
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I am quite shocked people complain about hooks in the game. That map is so hard to successfully sabo in. I would take most of other maps before "the game" map when attempting sabotages.
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It's not off topic. Survivors have been pigeonholed into bringing anti-tactic perks, so I do believe that it is more than fair for the shoe to be on the other foot for once.
And I can already see (hopefully very few) people saying "Well just run: [PERK] and it will be fine!" but no, a player being forced to run a perk to make doing their objective even possible is nonsense and a silly argument overall.
Midwich I can see a case for, not so sure about new RPD though. Either way, there is a degree in overall strategy and skill around hooks being permanently broken when a survivor is sacrificed. It's up to you as the killer to manage your hooks and avoid creating hook deadzones.
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I think it wouldn't be a bad change to remove Hook Offerings, as it can be problematic for Bully Squads to abuse. Map Hook Placement should be fixated, especially near gens and exit gates. Certain maps like Midwhich Can have the worse hooks spawns, especially when the most commonly hooks are right next to the awnsers and it can be problematic if you kill a couple and loose these hooks.
While places like Haddonfield, there are literally one area in which Hooks spawn literally 6 meter together... imagine if the killer got a 2 Survivors down and hook there... yeah, good luck going for rescues.
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Sometimes if a surv goes down in a corner you simply cannot avoid creating a hook deadzone, yes there is some planning but if 2 survs go down in one corner of a map you might simply just not have enough hooks, it has happened to me plenty of times so I had no choice but to leave them on the ground. Even on garden of joy in the middle of the map I was lucky to happen to have a build with agi cuz for some reason the hooks were super far. A basekit move speed buff to carrying would help this a lot tbh and is probs the ultimate solution.
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A basekit buff to carry speed is not the answer as it has the potential to create problems. It'd be simpler for there to be guaranteed hooks in the corners of every outdoor map. The hook rng can then determine the rest.
This keeps the strategic part of hooks being permanently broken when a survivor is sacrificed while also doing away with rng hook deadzones where survivors cannot be hooked.
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How would an extra 5% carry speed have the potential to create problems?
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An extra 5% carry speed basekit may not seem like much to you, but it opens up the potential for a whole host of problems.
It frees up a perk slot in builds that would otherwise require it. It makes it possible to hook someone in the basement when the survivor would've otherwise wiggled free. Agitation as a perk would have to be adjusted.
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e.g. make sabotage plays much harder. Makes starstruck much more valueable. Makes afk player chasing zoom thru map (especially comboed with agitation). Bodyblocking would get much harder. Breakout perk would make 0 sense (if left alone, you could just delete it altogether) or would require buff.
There is a reason why killer is slightly slower then survivors when carrying someone (and only a perk can change this).
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5% would save u like not even 3 seconds on wiggle time as a killer, that is not going to cause any problems (was iron grasp anywhere near a useable perk? exactly)
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It would save the killer like 2 seconds on carrying, who cares? lol
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Well I was not talking about speed being issue with regards to how quickly they finish carrying. I said the issue is with interaction between killer and survivors if someone is being carried (+ max distance and fairness to sabo plays, but that's different discussion).
To repeat myself - there are very good reasons why survivors are a little bit quicker then killer (with exception to 2 perks that adjust speeds). Read my response again if you want to understand why that's the case.
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Everything you mentioned is very niche, starstruck would not matter since 5% the killer would still be slower than survs (you would go at 97% speed) so thats not going to change since you should never go near a killer who is carrying someone when starstruck is up anyway.
Saboing would be slightly harder but is very rare still, and even with this change if you sabo the one hook in a hook deadzone, the killer is still not going to get anywhere with an extra 2 seconds of distance.
Breakout, why do we care about this? its one perk which sees like 0 play. For good reason, I have basically never had this perk work out against me.
Afk player chasing never happens like ever and you mentioned the agi combo, we can simply nerf agi to add 13% instead of 18%. Problem solved. (also killer is still going to be slower than survs with a 5% speed increase so he will never catch up to anyone).
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I personaly use saboteur and sometimes breakout, because even if it's weak compared to flashlight, it's much more fun for me. And both perks have value (on some maps more then on others). 97% to 100% + hit distance is something very different to 92% carry speed. So if I was forced to choose a nerf, it would be +2s to carry.
But I don't like even this one, because it's not rare, that killer downs someone mid 3 hooks, chooses the 1 I am close to, I sabo it as he hits me and yet has enough time to hook the survivor on yet another hook. I consider this very unfair. Things like this means that on some maps/situations it's literally impossible to pull sabotages off without breakout (so you need 2 perks or perk and a toolbox).
On the other hand I had seen just 1 map, that can have such a bad RNG (and bad RNG is still hard requirement), that killer could not hook survivor in a single zone no matter what he did (so unfair situation for killer). And yet, the map is most killer sided out of all the maps in whole game - with official stats saying it has highest killrate from all the maps (and with good reasons).
Yes I hate midwitch even if I love sabo plays.
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I mean thats fair, but we cant balance the game around sabos. If it really was a big deal we could just buff some of the sabo perks and items (I would take a heavy buff to sabo toolboxes and nerfing their gen speed increase any day).
My experience with hooks has been quite different, its uncommon but it does happen once every 5 or so games where I am forced to slug a guy because of it (I even had one surv in my last game literally sprint to the corner so I could not hook them so I just waited from him to bleed out for 4 mins, on asarov's).
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Ok. I take it we have different experience. I have never seen such a thing on azarov's (if 2 ppl did not die in such corner destroying 2 hooks in a process). Then again I don't play around corners as there is nothing to loop there. But I would not be opposed to give 4 extra hooks in like 1m away from very corners of the map - most killers would not use them because of time wasted, so it could be direct fix to this.
Also in exchange adding 0.3s or (and this might be little greedy from me) 0.5s on sabo toolbox in exchange for not being able to fix gens with them (or maybe just something strong like 90-95% slower repair speed on toolbox). That would be something I would love to have.
To clarify - quickest sabo toolbox (all speed addons) lets you destroy hook after getting 1 hit, but you have no time to use DH or anything. 0.3s gives you enough time to dodge the hit if you can sabo from behind of hook (e.g. farm hooks in corn) or you can DH. 0.5s gives you possibility to get away if you can sabo from side (most of the hooks that are not in some corner).
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