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What are some advanced tips/strategies for Nemesis?
I have a few hundred hours on Nemi and would like to hear what tips and stragies you like doing that are relatively advanced. Getting into T2 early, drag, I know all that: I want to hear what your different strategies for playing Nemi is. Thanks!
Comments
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I am no Nemi expert, but I don't think there are that many secret strategies for him. At least at this your point, where you have so much EXP with him. He isn't the most complex killer when it comes to his power if you know what I mean. His skill cealling has Its limits.
Someone like Pinhead or Billy... Oh yea, there must be so much to learn and be perfect at.
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I'd tell you if i played him but i was so disapointed with his whole designas a killer that i never bought him. All i see is Nemesis running Franklins Demise cause it works with his Tentacle...
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Skill shots
The real trick to Nemesis is knowing when you will land a whip and when you won't. If you miss with a whip you give them a lot of room to make distance and that really sucks on a killer with no mobility. Learn to recognize that certain loops have just the right shape where you can sling around a corner when the timing is right and there is no chance to dodge. This is really a "frame counting" issue where you either know or you don't. If you don't know right now you will if you play him enough. You also need to learn every piece of terrain and say yes I can whip over that part of the tile or no I cannot.
In case no one has told you the survivor hitbox is more closely "weighted" around their rear end. So whip their arse not their face - a common courtesy.
There are small tricks that will take time to learn unless someone tells you. As an example say you are chasing someone around the shack. When you drag your whip you could either go outside to in or inside to out. Do you know which one is better? If you drag outside to in there is almost no chance they can dodge the hit. Note: I did have one person dodge one time in like 1000 games but I have a suspicion they were 2-3% sped up from normal movement as no one else has ever been able to dodge in the way they did. If you go inside to out it is very easy for a survivor to dodge the attack.
Never hold the whip for more than a moment unless they are in the open and there's nothing around. You can condition people to make them dodge a whip when you aren't going to whip at all. Don't be afraid to pull out the whip and not use it to condition the survivor that sometimes you fake whipping. This is something you would need to learn how to do. It's not something you can really teach - but touches on the idea of "playing dumb". Most people I 4k against get the idea: how did I lose vs this chump? They played like an idiot and won. The reality is that the whole time there was method to my pretend idiocy (madness - as per the line).
You probably are used to people doing the window fake and then they hope you miss the whip and then they vault safely. Learn to hold the whip until their animation changes - you have plenty of time. If they dont vault let go and punch them unless they are the obsession to save stacks.
Wild crazy angle flicks will work vs bad players but will regularly miss vs good players. The real skill is developing muscle memory for a consistent 30° flick or a 90° flick. This can help you hit vs very good players when they are the obsession and are very close where it can be hard to whip them. While it looks sexy when Otz gets 1/10 wild window flicks at extreme angles - they almost never land. This is a move he wants to force to work but it's really more of a huntress or trickster move. It is simply too easy for a survivor to duck and avoid them.
Perks
I always run STBFL unless I really need the perk slot to counter a SWF in some other way. This perk is really huge for him as he can keep stacks extremely easily. Depending on who is the obsession you can stay at t2 the whole game and only get two whip hits. You need to almost never miss with your whip if you want to make the most out of this perk vs very good survivors. On that note if you ever are winning a game and you just can't whip the last survivor but the other person is on the floor : spend as long as you can chasing them to learn and practice against their movements.
Discordance is extremely strong with him after the perk rework. I didn't use it before because some of the other gen regression options were so good (rip Pop/old PR). The synergy for zombie interruption is really huge. This combos well into Overcharge as well as you can get zombies that have left to come back if they fail an overcharge check.
Bamboozle is really good on him as you can force the strongest pallets on the first loop. This gives players almost no choice in how they can shift W against you. You might think : I have the whip I don't need it. Generally speaking vs 3/4 targets you should punch unless you would get nothing and then you might as well whip unless it is end game.
Corrupt is a perk I used religiously before but not anymore. With good game sense (or discordance) you can figure where people are early on and put a lot of pressure with just one or two dives on a generator.
Zombies
Pay attention to your friends when they have their arms up but be aware sometimes they really have not seen anyone in 15 seconds. Don't be afraid to whip them if you are playing a game and everyone is a "hard target" to get to T2. Generally speaking it is a bad idea to destroy a zombie near a gen you know someone was just working on but is hiding and you didn't infect or injure.
Don't cross the map to break a zombie unless you know people are hiding and not cranking out generators.
Tunneling is more effective with Nemesis because the game becomes 3v3 if you eliminate a survivor. There is no other killer with the potential for this much 4v1 damage.
Oh my do you have a lot to learn.
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Bumping this thread for interest.
I play Nemi occasionally, but he isn't anywhere near one of my mains.
I usually just use STBFL with him and M1 everything excepting pallets/windows and the Obsession, although I wouldn't exactly call that an "advanced strategy".
One thing nobody has been able to figure out is how to use zombies effectively. If you figure out how they're spawned (maybe there some special math behind it, like the Lament Configutation), you might be able to better know when and how to bump them off so they can respawn near loops and pressure gens.
One of the most underrated things about zombies is their ability to get rid of pallets. Survivors would usually rather drop a pallet on their head than slowly lead them away from a gen and wait for the killer to come find them. Maybe an anti-pallet strategy? Or just an anti-chase in general; run STBFL, Bamboozle, Superior Anatomy to synergize with his natural pallet-shredding abilities.
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I didn't read your post until after I wrote mine, and I didn't even know loud noise notifications attracted zombies until just now.
I just ran a Brine/PR/Eruption/STBFL build and decimated some Twitch streamers, and it was live.
Thanks.
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Briliant description, appreciate it massively. If you have any specific tiles or loops where you'd recommend a certain playstyle or direction of movement. Also, if you have any interesting builds that are fun/work well with Nemi, I'd love to hear it. Thanks.
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You know how people worked out the spawn formula for the cube? Zombies have a similar idea except they have a smaller exclusion zone on spawn.
It doesn't really give you the same level of information but there is a spawn pattern.
-"run STBFL, Bamboozle, Superior Anatomy to synergize with his natural pallet-shredding abilities."
You don't need to run two perks that do almost the same thing. Bamboozle always speeds up your vault a tiny bit and blocks the window. It's a better perk 99% of the time unless you find yourself in an area with a stupid number of windows (suffocation pit). Even then with practice you can still force certain windows via positioning and guile.
Play 10 games with MM using infinite T3 addon+ Bamboozle. Then swap out Bam for SA - you'll see Bam is the better perk.
Eruption is a perk that destroys solo players and does very little vs SWF.
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My current Gerneric build is : Discordance, Overcharge, STBFL, Bamboozle.
Overcharge is great vs solo players and good once you tunnel someone out. It does less vs SWF because they can get right back on generators when you scare someone off. Discordance can once again feedback into what you need to do at a generator when it was yellow 5 seconds ago. You hit one person chase a bit see if you can down easily and circle back to injure/infect the other
Bam is the "window insurance perk/ early pallet remover"
My What if they are SWAT team SWF build is : - still a thought process in development but has Franklin's Demise
-"If you have any specific tiles or loops where you'd recommend a certain playstyle or direction of movement."
When chasing the very good survivor around a pallet loop it is important to think about which side is the "inside" for a pallet. What I mean by this is the pallet is always against a wall of some kind. Survivors who understand perfect timing/movement can move to the inside wall if you try to whip.
This would be easier illustrated with a picture but I don't have an example picture for you. Long story short the loop will have a more favorable direction for you when the loop puts the pallet further away from a close turn. My brain wants to say all pallets are on the left wall but that is a matter of which way you are facing and really more about which structure they are attached to. What this means is that a survivor looping anti clockwise has a slight advantage in that direction if there is a pallet they can use to "shield" themselves from the whip hit after they round a corner.
Get very good at knowing your distances with the whip and try to use Tier II as the "base". Be aware level one is different then level three when you just finished a game and start a new one. This is obvious but takes some time for you to not make this mistake except sometimes to just barely miss a tier 1 whip.
When you loop around the traditional pallet gym if the spacing is right you can pull out the whip as you come around a corner before seeing the survivor. This again is a muscle memory of knowing the spacing. You can whip with almost no chance for them to evade as they cant get to anything and there is only a possible "U" shape to move into. This is a perfect example where you don't just whip wildly- you line up the shot and fire.
I'll try to get a picture or video for one of these.
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I would argue that Bamboozle and Superior are different perks with different use cases, and they do have some synergy. I'd agree that Bam is the stronger of the two overall, but it gets you one easy down per survivor (one per game if it's an SWF) and then survivors will make a point of not looping you around windows, instead vaulting through them once and running in the other direction. Which is where superior comes in. And the speed bonuses on the two stack.
I ran this for a few games on my Clown anti-chase build, and it was effective, but not worth wasting a perk slot for Superior, so I ended up replacing that.
Infinite T3 Myers is probably one of the best builds to run both perks on. Add in Coup de Grace and it's pure cheese.
Eruption is a much better perk than people give it credit for, but it only has niche uses. If your entire build is centered around gen-kicking (meaning, you kick a gen before you take a chase, which works best on killers with good anti-loop, or else you patrol the map and make sure every gen is kicked and survivors are scared and one or two of them have to take the time to heal), you can get regression on a bunch of gens at once.
This works especially well when you run Overcharge and Brine, since you can kick a gen before a chase, get an extra 10% off of it on the down, and if nobody else was working on it, it's going to be regressing at 300% on top of that.
It really shines in 3-gen situations when stacked with Overcharge, Brine, and PR. If you manage to get a decent 3-gen set up with that build, gg survivors better luck next time.
In Nemi's case, I used it that game because it attracted zombies due to the explosion, which means that even if they stayed off of gens when getting downed and didn't get the incapacitated effect, it was still 10% off of every kicked gen, and then they're getting chased off by zombies a minute later, which is as good as being incapacitated.
That game was a SWF. I've tried it three more times, and all were 3-4K.
Why would you run Overcharge over Brine? Overcharge is 75% regression at first, and survivors who have been playing for more than a week are likely to easily hit the skill check. Brine is instant 200%, and they're almost certainly going to hit a normal skill check (causing a loud noise notification) shortly after starting a gen.
I never run Overcharge without Brine except on certain Doctor builds.
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The one thing I'll say is I think people don't destroy their own zombies often enough. Not only does destroying a zombie give you a bit of charge up, but to me more importantly it forces a zombie that's near you to respawn in a new location which more often than not will be a better spot for them. After all, if you are in an area, survivors probably have already left that area to try and work on gens farther away. Yes, sometimes survivors will hide when you show up and then continue doing whatever it was they were doing if you leave, but as a rule of thumb if you're pretty sure nobody is around then you're probably right that nobody is around and it's ok to force the zombie next to you to spawn somewhere else the survivors won't be expecting and that might be closer to them.
I'm not saying you should necessarily run all over the map seeking out zombies to destroy, I'm just saying if you're not chasing someone and a zombie is in easy reach, smack it in the head, get a boost and hopefully get the zombie back in action somewhere it might be more productive.
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-"Why would you run Overcharge over Brine?"
Brine won't be in the shrine for like 6 months. Also overcharge as I said can trigger zombies to come to the gen. People often tap a gen in chase and miss the check even if they can hit it normally. Also Overcharge if left alone can deal more regression then Brine.
-"Infinite T3 Myers is probably one of the best builds to run both perks on."
This is so false. If you aren't getting it done with Bam+infinite T3 then you need to rethink your movement.
-"Eruption is a much better perk than people give it credit for"
It's an S tier perk vs solo players and C tier or less vs SWF teams. This is a win more perk where you win more by using it when you don't need it.
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Oh. Yeah, I just went ahead and bought every killer. Worth it, IMO. Every one of them is P3 now, so I don't even have to grind for perks anymore excepting the generic ones.
Brine can trigger zombies over to the gens, too. Right? And multiple times. I mean, it causes a loud noise notification just like Discordance. As far as I could tell, it was working fine.
Overcharge was a terrible perk before its rework, and it's mediocre now (at least on its own). Most survivors will hit the skill check, and if they notice that you have it, a lot of them are going to assume you're running the Brine/Overcharge combo and hug gens, anyway. Doesn't it take like 12 seconds to get to 100% progression and then another 12 before it even makes up for the slower initial progression? Since most gens will get tapped in that time, like you said, you'd probably get more out of Brine just for its initial speed.
Man, I don't know how you can defend Overcharge and then say with a straight face that Eruption is a C-tier perk. (I'd argue that Eruption is B-tier across the board and Overcharge is C-tier on its own against solos and F-tier on its own against experienced SWFs.)
>This is so false. If you aren't getting it done with Bam+infinite T3 then you need to rethink your movement.
It's not about not getting it done. It's about the fact that Myers already vaults extremely fast in T3, and an extra 55% on top of that is extremely fun. And have you see how far he can lunge with Coup? He used to be able to completely ignore old Dead Hard if you timed things correctly.
I'll admit, however, that I haven't actually run this on Myers T3 yet myself, so this is conjecture. I'm actually going to go try this now.
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My friend sent me a clip for you of Blind whipping around a corner. If you saw the whole video this guy was an amazing looper.
This was a 6 meg file that had to be converted to gif for the forums. It expanded to 47 megs as a gif.
-"and an extra 55% on top of that is extremely fun"
My point is the extra 55% is completely unnecessary. If we had eight perks sure why not go for it but we do not.
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-"Overcharge was a terrible perk before its rework, and it's mediocre now (at least on its own). Most survivors will hit the skill check, and if they notice that you have it, a lot of them are going to assume you're running the Brine/Overcharge combo and hug gens, anyway. Doesn't it take like 12 seconds to get to 100% progression and then another 12 before it even makes up for the slower initial progression? Since most gens will get tapped in that time, like you said, you'd probably get more out of Brine just for its initial speed."
Choy made a video with regression perks:
Normal regression takes 5 minutes and 47 seconds to take a 99% Gen back down to 0%
Call Of Brine takes 4 minutes and 46 seconds
Overcharge takes 3 minutes and 3 seconds
Before 90 seconds have passed Overcharge has more regression than CoB.
After 2:30 Overcharge gets the generator down to about 12% while the CoB generator is still close to 50% progress.
At 2:32 the Overcharge+CoB generator is completely stopped. In other words : CoB+Overcharge has only 11% more regression than just Overcharge.
You can find that video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGtF_5jH8ww
My observation is that people who play like comp teams and can loop with pixel perfect precision often miss overcharge when I push them off a generator. CoB is better if you can't tunnel or slug survivors. But if you can tunnel and slug then Overcharge is the better perk - depending on your ability to pressure.
If I chase someone off a generator with Overcharge at 60% progress it will be close enough to zero that they may as well start a different location.
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Give the undetectable addon a try. It has gotten me hits or even free downs so many times. Bonus points if you have the T-Virus Sample.
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Learn the lingering hitbox. Makes round loops playable with tentacle.
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But the fact of the matter is that coming across a 99%ed gen and keeping someone off of it until it goes all the way to zero isn't something that happens much more often than a Pentimento five-stack (maybe you come across an 80%ed gen once in a while, but that fundamentally changes the math, and good luck keeping survivors off of it). If Overcharge starts at 75% and keeps going until it reaches 200%, it will eventually become more powerful than Brine, but the truth of the matter is that most survivors try to hug gens with any amount of progress as soon as you're gone, meaning that a lot of gens will never even reach 100% regression if you take a chase and more than one person was working on it.
Sure, if you chase them off of a gen just as they're trying to hit the skill check (which is also a relatively rare occurence), they might fail it, but good survivors can hit that check while running, and you maybe get an extra 5%. On top of that, survivors (at least in my experience) only very rarely tap gens when they're within your terror radius, because most understand that doing that repeatedly now results in lots of free regression because kicking gens now damages them. When survivors do this nowadays, I can get an extra 10% off with four kicks plus whatever regressed between taps (which is guaranteed to be at more then 175% regression speed if I'm not running Overcharge alone).
And Overcharge alone sucks balls in a 3-gen situation.
I think that if you did the math, you'd realize that you got more regression out of Brine overall because of its more aggressive starting point. Overcharge might get more regression in sterile laboratory conditions, but in a match, you're better off getting repeated 2.5% kicks plus regression at 200% in between if that's how survivors want to play the game. I've taken gens almost all the way down to zero just doing that.
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This is what I meant to say before : If I chase someone off a generator with Overcharge at 60% progress it will be close enough to zero after 60 seconds that they may as well start a different location. CoB works better if you don't tunnel and Overcharge works better if you do.
"you'd realize that you got more regression out of Brine overall because of its more aggressive starting point"
If you want to kick all the gens and apply pressure to all of them - maybe. But most of the time I am really only worried about three generators. If those never get done then I win.
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Question: What perks other than Discordance has notifications that attracts Zombies?
I know some, like Spies From the Shadows, do not, but what other perks can be used in conjuction with zombies without immediately alerting survivors like Discordance can?
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The tentacle is one thing people mentioned. Then there is that whole discussion on perks.
Personally, I really like using Zombies for zoning. - If you keep track of them and where survs are Paul and Sandra will do very good work for you and shut down a lot of loops pretty effectively. They think they run into a safe loop - but nope, not safe at all. It doesn't always work - but it does work better than people tend to think. Especially with speed add-ons for zombies. (Zoom-Zombies are the best anyway ^^)
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I do tunnel.
If all you care about are three gens, you'd be better off going with Brine, because all survivors are going to focus on three gens in (if you set things up right) a very small area. Which means they're tapping gens just as soon as you take a chase. Which means that 10 seconds of 200% regression before they tap it is going to do more for you than 10 seconds of it going from 75-95%. And it will also give you information about which one is being worked on.
Trust me, Brine is great. Give it a try when you can.
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