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Anyone try playing Twins on PTB? I imagine it is horrible.
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The match would have been 2 minutes long if she hooked someone instead of greeding the 4th down and the survivors are the ones getting blamed for "bullying" her and not trying to close the match? What kind of backwards logic is that?
She permanently had 3 on the floor and slugged from first second in a situation she clearly didn't need to. Survivors have 3 hook states and she's trying to skip all of them at once.
She won playing like that and people are still defending that this change is "too much" and survivors are "too strong" when this change was introduced to prevent this same scenario and still fails at it.
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I'd imagine it would be garbage for any high level twins player because you're usually better off slugging out till the bleed timer runs out rather than wasting time going to the survivor and hooking. hooking means you're ok with the survivors getting to use their off the records and we'll make its which is why i never pick bait perks like dead man's switch or bbq on twins. if you are hooking when playing twins, then you may as well just play a chase oriented killer because at that point you're mostly using victor for chasing people. the only merit then is the occasional second down or injury if you don't get kicked or the survivor doesnt go into a locker.
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I saw this it's pretty funny she claims she makes no mistakes while making them at almost every turn and going for unnecessary slugs when it's clearly not a time for that, at least hook the first survivor you down and don't leave for long enough where they can get up but choose to let their teammate save them with head-on when it was obvious someone was in the locker by the position of the downed survivor crawling there, also says there's nothing they can do about exponential when clearly you can if you know where the totem is like she said she did, to me this video proves nothing but she was looking for this type of thing purposely letting it happen just to show what is possible, she could've ended the game at one point early on and made numerous mistakes in the moment
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why is that video still being used as a talking point when the streamer made poor decisions based on greed. She made poor decisions. She wanted to slug all 4 survivors for an easy win. Such gameplay shouldn't be rewarded or encouraged. Had she hooked someone she may have won even quicker. But she outright refused to do so.
Even when everyone with a flashlight was down, She still went for the jane who didn't have a flashlight.
This video proves nothing that the people posting it claims it does.
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I thought there were several times Lynxi could have just gotten the hook, albeit at the cost of one or both of the other slugs getting up.
I honestly think she got too caught up in the possibility they could today she ended up tunnel visioning herself and ignoring the hooks she could have gotten.
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she is getting tremendous pressure because the survivor is not juking/playing properly vs victor. she misses like 1 victor pounce before survivor finally kicks victor at 4:14. that is first time that she messes up a pounce. to give an idea for how bad survivor is playing, when victor downs a survivor, he suffers 5 second which lasts forever and you can kick victor during this time.
the equivalent gameplay for survivor would be killer getting 1 hook in 5 generators. The game realizing the killer did very poorly. As a result, the survivors get to do 2 extra generators, just to extend the game.
this highlight twin's problem vs swf because the strategy behind playing against twins is playing in pairs and splitting up. Charlotte is immobile and victor is mobile but the further he is away from Charlotte, the less Charlotte can capitalize on her downs because of large distance between victor and charlotte. people split up, work in pairs, if victor misses, they kick him, if he does not miss but downs the survivor, you begin healing survivor, after 4.5 second, you kick victor, then you continue healing and by the time charlotte tries to pick up the slug from 30+ meter walking distance, the survivor is already picked up. if victor hits a healthy survivor, you keep him hostage because it turns Charlotte into m1 killer with deadweight time where she cannot use her ability to down survivors and 2 of the other survivor can work on gens while one person is looping m1 Charlotte.
what unbreakable does is remove the need for teamwork and puts the problem in larger spotlight where solo turns into swf towards slugging. you no longer need teamwork to counter slugging and second chances become free. The killer is not getting rewarded for their downs similar to how it works vs swf. so when dev said, The twins are overperforming, its like... looking at the video. it is not hard to see why. solo survivor are playing really poorly against twins while the stronger swf's are able to defeat twins by outplaying victor and using twin's weakness in slugging against them.
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So I have to bring a perk to make up for bad game mechanics?
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Everyone else is saying she played bad.
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Doesn't mean she isn't prob the best twins streamer out there.
I've used her videos alongside Pixel Bush for reference in Twin play.
That said, I agree with those saying she should've gone for a hook. I think the self pickups got to her a bit.
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she misses like 1 victor pounce before survivor finally kicks victor at 4:14. that is first time that she messes up a pounce.
She missed her first pounce on Jane at 48 seconds. This is what I'm talking about.
She says she hasn't made any mistake. Danielmaster says Victor can't get to you if you pre-drop a pallet. You say she hasn't missed any pounces until 4 minutes in.
In reality, she's already like four mistakes in the hole in the first minute of the video. But killer skill is adamantly kept out of any equation. People will consistently refuse to acknowledge that sometimes, it's the killer's fault. It's the problem with the paradigm on these forums: Killer wins? Survivors bad. Survivors win? Game is unfair, QQ, nerf survivors.
Keep in mind that she's playing this poorly and, as she says at the start, she's still won 'the last few'. So she's got a high winrate despite playing really poorly. AND YET, she's decrying the changes as being unfair to her, because 'I didn't make any mistakes!'.
Same goes for the barrage of 'I only camp and tunnel because it's literally impossible to win otherwise!'. Sometimes it's none of that, and the killer just sucks. Deal with it.
Welcome to survivor gameplay the past four years.
No, survivors hardly ever get to say that because they'll be shouted down by 'top MMR killer players' who 'made no mistakes'.
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She missed her first pounce on Jane at 48 seconds. This is what I'm talking about.\
that is another mindgame with twins and victor. she was expecting the survivor to drop the pallet. that is why she preemptively charged. its risky for victor to go under a pallet because people will often run forward to make you believe they're going for another loop, but then back-up and pallet stun victor which will kill victor. that missed pounce is another mistake by survivor because you can predict victor trajectory as he misses. it gives opportunity to kick him if you understand where he will land.
Victor goes on cooldown and then Charlotte has to summon him back, you have to run all the way back to Claudette position to continue the chase with victor if the survivor successfully kicks him.
its weird that I am understanding this gameplay because I do not even play twins. I guess its just because I understand the survivor gameplay towards playing vs twins.
Danielmaster says Victor can't get to you if you pre-drop a pallet.
He is correct. certain pallets are infinities when dropped vs victor. Some windows can be strong against victor because victor does not count towards being in the chase. This means that windows do not have entity blockers. you can infinity vault them. Dead dog saloon has those top balcony windows that might be really strong vs victor if you let him walk up to you then vault the window last second.
The sweet spot for twins to pounce with victor is around 2-3 meters. You have to utilize victor slow charge time+slow movement speed to move away from victor. you want to shift-w for first second of his charge time then wiggle in unpredictable manner while still running forward. it makes it hard for twins player to hit you with victor. If you run away from victor, like 5-6 meters, twin player will likely cancel the pounce and will try to walk up to you with victor pointblank where gameplay loop repeats. Its very risky for twin player to go for long-range pounces if the survivor is wiggling in unpredictable fashion from far away. This gameplay loop right here is why Twins players all use Toysword because it reduces victor's charge time and shorten the m/s penalty to run away from victor so its easier to land point-blank pounces that are guaranteed to hit if the survivor does not understand the gameplay.
this is the approach you have to take to try to juke victor out in the open. Bare in mind that counter-play for victor out in the open is not 100% full proof strategy. its relies on your survivor movement being tricky to read in combination of the twins not reading your movement. Nobody was doing that in the video. everyone was just trying face-tank victor. its super easy for skilled twin player to hit pointblank victor pounces.
she's got a high winrate despite playing really poorly.
She is got high winrate from survivors not understanding her gameplay. the killer downing the survivor repeatedly is not killer playing bad. she explains her thought process during gameplay for how she is does not have time to kick boon or pick up the survivors in time to hook them while using victor at the same time. 4 minute bleed out timers with no penalty to pick yourself up really does not work. It makes slugging obsolete and punishes the killer for downing the survivor. Twins does not do too well vs SWF for that reason. Its too difficult to slug when 4 people are alive and hooking for twins is not time efficient if twins wants to use victor for anything more than a radar.
That game only ended because the survivor played so badly to the point... that even with all the second chances from unbreakable, they still died from bleed out. with better survivor player, it is not practical for the killer to kill through bleed out with current system with how many times survivors are able to pick themselves up.
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that is another mindgame with twins and victor. she was expecting the survivor to drop the pallet. that is why she preemptively charged. its risky for victor to go under a pallet because people will often run forward to make you believe they're going for another loop, but then back-up and pallet stun victor which will kill victor. that missed pounce is another mistake by survivor because you can predict victor trajectory as he misses. it gives opportunity to kick him if you understand where he will land.
Did she or did she not miss that pounce?
He is correct.
Literally in the video, it is proven that he isn't correct. Survivor drops the pallet and Victor jumps over it to down them. He is literally proven incorrect.
She is got high winrate from survivors not understanding her gameplay.
How do you know how survivors played in her previous matches from this video?
the killer downing the survivor repeatedly is not killer playing bad.
It is if she consistently refuses to hook to solidify her advantage. She keeps greeding for the 4-slug.
It makes slugging obsolete and punishes the killer for downing the survivor.
Oh yes, a 4K with no gens getting touched. Very punished!
But this is exactly what I'm talking about. She repeatedly makes mistakes up and down the shop, but there's a five page essay on how the game's supposedly unfair to her, including factually wrong statements like 'she didn't miss a pounce until 4 minutes in' or 'If you pre-drop a pallet, Victor can't get to you', both are observably wrong as evidenced by the video we're talking about.
It's total and complete absolution of any flaws, in complete contrast to reality, paired up with a '4K isn't enough' mentality. It's the same thing that drives both '63% kill rate isn't high enough' chatter and the constant discrediting of that figure too, because no, the 63% kill rate is a meaningless figure and we should stick to the dogmatic belief that killers are super oppressed. Source: 'Just trust me, bro!'
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He can't get you if you predrop. The loop is too long, except maybe with purple speed add-on and Toy Sword. And I'm not saying she didn't make mistakes, but unless you want to make an equation that determines what quantity of mistakes makes a killer good or bad, I'm not sure where you're going with that.
The argument isn't that we make no mistakes. It's that we make mistakes, within reason, as humans do, and lose the whole game off it, even when EACH of the survivors has made the same amount or more mistakes. Most of the time the killer wins, yes it's the survivors letting them, either through being inefficient or making dumb decision they didn't need to make. Most of the time killer loses, it was out of their control, whether they lost by making 15 mistakes or by making 1 mistake.
There does exist a middle ground, where the game could go either way all the way through, but you hardly ever see it because it takes so much just to even the playing field for the killer. I feel like if we were to make Agitation, Unrelenting, Enduring, and Brutal Strength base, it might make it close. Watcha gonna do with Wraith, Freddy, or Pig against survivors that know what they're doing? You can barely hit them, because those killers have no anti-loop, leaving it up to the survivors to make the mistake. If they don't, you get nothing. When you do finally manage to hit them, it doesn't mean anything because they're not downed, can still loop, and can heal up very quick with a probable CoH if you don't commit. That's why experienced killers commit to bad chases nowadays, because it's a sunk cost fallacy where abandonment is just as bad if not worse than committing more. You're saying that the killer probably sucks when they need to tunnel and camp to win, but I've yet to see a match where the killer and survivors were both really good, and the killer won through just blind chases.
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He can't get you if you predrop.
It's. In. The. Video!
The argument isn't that we make no mistakes. It's that we make mistakes, within reason, as humans do, and lose the whole game off it, even when EACH of the survivors has made the same amount or more mistakes. Most of the time the killer wins, yes it's the survivors letting them, either through being inefficient or making dumb decision they didn't need to make. Most of the time killer loses, it was out of their control, whether they lost by making 15 mistakes or by making 1 mistake.
Source: "Just trust me, bro!"
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Did she or did she not miss that pounce?
She did miss pounce but she did not consider it a mistake, more of lower risk read that survivor did not bother to punish. she says her first mistake is around 4 minutes in.
Literally in the video, it is proven that he isn't correct. Survivor drops the pallet and Victor jumps over it to down them. He is literally proven incorrect.
most of dead dog saloon pallets are not safe. that map is really good for killer for that reason. victor is very fast and can rotate pallets that are short. Only some pallets when dropped become strong vs victor. twin has good chasing power, your often forced to juke victor out in the open. its not exactly easy but its not impossible either.
It is if she consistently refuses to hook to solidify her advantage. She keeps greeding for the 4-slug.
If she picks someone up, the other survivors get up from unbreakable. she is forced to camp slugs which is why she says in the video that soulguard would be strong in this situation.
Oh yes, a 4K with no gens getting touched. Very punished!
I am just saying she is losing downing pressure from the base-kit unbreakable mechanic. I don't think its quite right for match to last 10 minutes with that type of survivor gameplay.
It's the same thing that drives both '63% kill rate isn't high enough
the kill-rate is 61%.
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I has about the same thing happen to me while trying out the PTB with Twins. The issue IMO is I couldn't even test it because I ran into so many bully squads. I did manage one single game against a regular group and got 2 kills, but other than that, it was a bunch of nonsense that made me want to stop playing completely. It was like pre 6.1 patch frustration.
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What is this? L.A. Noire? "I would like to see the evidence on that!" Like I said, it's hard if not impossible to quantify chases and mistakes. We're allowed to be anecdotal about this game, because it's all we've got when it comes to chases and mistakes, especially when a lot of the time a mistake is only acknowledged as a mistake in hindsight. We all play the same game, so we should know how it is by now. Victor should not get you if you predrop, but if you're bad at the game and run past the pallet where he's aiming, then sure he can get you. But that's going off of the assumption that survivors are playing bad, almost to the point of being on purpose, and most of what you say is going off that assumption. You've said that she made several mistakes in playing Twins, but another time you've said that they didn't really have time to do gens because Twins was on them. Well which is it? Was she playing well or not? Because we all know you can't be good at the game if you make mistakes, or at least if you're killer!
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Hummm. I find this video exceptionally biased and misleading.
I mean she is obviously a very skilled twins player, but her gameplay choices appear to be tailored specifically to exacerbate the effect of the slugging mechanics. This is to the point to make the match look staged, even if it wasn't.
Honestly if she wanted to kill them by hook, she could have done so very easily and in a fraction of the time the match actually lasted.
Of course, if you are dead set on pushing a 4 slug win at 5 gens, of course the anti slug changes are going to be a major problem, but otherwise, this is not representative of a regular match and is uninformative.
I'm also curious about what she calls out as bullying. I mean I didn't see anyone teabagging or clicking the flashlight, or even outplaying her by any significant degree. She comes out as an extremely susceptible person.
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Don't missunderstand me, but being the best "X" streamer doesn't make anyone a good player... I've seen people complaining about how weak Wraith is (which I agree, he's kinda weak) and make videos doing things like... uncloacking too far... not using Wraith's superior speed to block a vault / pallet, trying to uncloack, seeing that it doesn't work and they don't uncloack at all... trying to spread chases...
I am just saying, as I've seen in another comment in this thread, being a good killer is having good game awareness (which includes perk synergies, when to hook, when to slug and a big etc), it doesn't mean 4k'ing every match as many things could change that factor... also, people also have affinities, or skills, some people are good with ghostface and some can not even fully stalk a survivor.
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