BHVR, why is there a loophole around the DC penalty?
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You know exactly what my deal is. I don't throw a tantrum and exit a game because something didn't go my way.
Even if what remains of my team is incapable of pulling anything off. That is the implicit agreement everyone makes when they play a team based game. The quitters don't get invited back.
Honestly, it's starting to make sense why so many soloQ players can't find an SWF to play with.
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I'm usually not for killing play-making diversity, but the removal of the kobe would/'could solve this completely by itself.
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Honestly, it's starting to make sense why so many soloQ players can't find an SWF to play with.
Is it because not everyone is comfortable with talking to complete strangers?
or because they don't want to go through the hassle of making DBD work with a group?
or because they don't have friends willing to subject themselves to the experience roulette of DBD?
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It's clearly because they're only interested in playing the game when their individual needs are met, and the moment they aren't having fun they become abhorrent to team with.
SWF's weed out those kind of players very quickly.
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Clearly, that's the only possible reason.
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You knew what I meant before I even elaborated. If you didn't like the answer you could've actually followed through on not responding to the 'wall'.
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I have been proposing the HUSK-system as a solution to DC and suicide for a long time. As a matter of fact, there has been no follow-up, although the developers have stated that they are working towards releasing it.
1. first, remove the DC penalty.
2. players who DC will leave HUSK and the game will continue; HUSK will be controlled by AI according to MMR.
3.This allows a player who has been crying on the hook and pretty much killing himself to make a DC and end the game without inconveniencing other players.
4. however, if you frequently DC to HUSK, you may need to be penalized. Like a decrease in efficiency of getting Blood Points on the game.
There may be a better way, but I support this feature.
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Indeed.
But you said something interesting that I thought was worth expanding on.
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This topic is a wash, but I was curious about your response specifically. Survivors aren’t a team in DBD, but... if they were how would no ‘mid-game’ deaths look? Killers pressure matches by scoring early sacrifices. Survivors lose pressure in these situations. If survivors didn’t die in the early or mindgame it would stop killers from applying pressure, no..?
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Handcuffing players to play a game is a very big red flag.
Just balance the game so both sides feel like they have an opportunity to win. The game is too easy for killers and survivors have no hope to win. You'll see way less survivors ditching a match if they have a chance to win.
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My issue with this suggestion is that if I’ve 2nd hooked a survivor mid-game and they die from that hook, I wouldn’t want them replaced by another survivor—whether AI controlled or not. That survivor is gone now, so the match is theoretically easier for me; as it should be.
As a survivor, what exactly is this ‘bonus’? Is it a buff to get repair speeds, healing, the number of hits I and other survivors can take—all things that are influenced by the presence of a functional survivor. Or is it just a few bloodpoints to compensate for the early game loss? Since survivors generally earn fewer bloodpoints than killers and have a much tougher time scoring emblems, are these rewards reconfigured in a way that reasonably synchronizes with this suggestion?
These are questions and concerns that need answering.
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Sorry for my lack of English comprehension.
About survivors who kill themselves on the second hook?
Yes, the HUSK system did not take that into account, it is a constant band-aid against DC, but we need to consider about players who commit suicide knowing that.
So how about removing hook wiggle and skill checks altogether? The developers said they wanted to have a sense of urgency on the hook, but I don't think easy skill checks that don't check skills make much sense anymore.
And yeah, it says something about bonuses that would be a compensating blood point.
Also, I know that there are people who play for the purpose of increasing their grade, which I don't understand.
Suggested that if there is a DC, PIP should not be negative.
I hope I have answered your questions and concerns, sorry if this writing does not convince you.
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Oh, yeah, well from the way it sounded from the post, I thought he was saying they couldn't even DC
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BHVR doesn't care about rage quitters, they care about money
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Maybe he wants a real game??? Killer's want survivor's to not dc because it ruins our game as much as the other survivors playing. Always gotta make it an us vs them bit.
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If there was a real game - most people wouldn't suicide. I don't come across this problem much when I play killer - but then I don't play like a dick either.
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Oo, since when?
One is getting sacrificed via in game mechanic and the other is a connection loss.
Differentiating those two should be easy as the game registers a normal death.
Different reasons for DC, those are impossible to differentiate except if it happens from the server side.
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Again, passive aggressively assuming I tunnel or camp ever. Even if it's not directed towards me It doesn't matter. Most of the problematic suicides are on stage one. Generally one of the first 2 survivors after they get downed. They simply don't want to play vs someone better than them and go next. But going next like that without penalty shouldn't exist.
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Sorry but that's just idealistic wishwash. There will always be something in a trial that someone doesn't like and will use whatever underhanded tool the game gives them to grief or leave.
I don't like a dozen champs in league to play against as a certain character but can ban only one.
In r6s there are always a few operator you don't want to see in the enemy team on certain maps but have only limited bans.
In overwatch there will always be people playing the hero that counters you or you don't like.
And in DBD there will always be someone unhappy with the killer they face, the perk that the other side has or the map they got.
You can't make it perfect for everybody, which is the reason for the DC penalty in EVERY of those games. But DBD is the only one with a loophole for ONE side that also screws over the rest of their team.
@SuzuKR how about simply applying the DC penalty for deaths in the first 90-120 seconds? It's impossible to die in that time without actively giving up except maybe hook farming but for that they can simply deactivate the penalty if the game detects an unhook.in that time to avoid hook farming DC abuse.
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It's amazing to me some people still rationalize to themselves that the person being hurt by this is the killer, and not the 3 other survivors who now instantly lose because a big baby decided they wanted to leave due to getting downed because they can't loop. No, the killer isn't mad you gave him a free 4k. You aren't hurting the killer. You are hurting the 3 survivors who now lose by default.
Anyone who suicides on hook should never EVER complain about solo queue, either. Because the culprit for that being bad can be found in a mirror.
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I'm more interested in pursuing the bot system.
You can't stop people from cucking over their team. Like @SuzuKR said, some people will do it for anything and nothing will make them stop.
You can, however, minimize the damage. The more I've read here, the more I've come to the conclusion that we are trying to achieve the same thing through vastly different means. Others would rather make it difficult and punish it extremely harshly, which is fair, but that won't make a difference to those players.
I'd rather investigate a bot system that replaces a teammate after they DC or suicide on hook. Obviously, there's some fine tuning to be done with the idea, but I really do think after that fine tuning is done, everyone will be happy. Killers won't get screwed out of BP, Survivors can have a chance to, you know, win and the person leaving gets to, well, leave.
I'd rather have a bot that's trying it's best over a teammate who doesn't want to be in the match.
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"That just reads like immature brats who weren't raised right."- What does this even mean? lol
Some people definitely have good reasons why they want to leave a game early. Some were even brought up in this thread.
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As long as those who want to suicide in a match stop queing into the match or outright quit the game, the benefit to the game will be no different.
So yeah, we don't need to change "why", just fixing symptom will make game better.
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I mean the game can't... because it's a sacrifice either way, that's all the game cares about
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Sometimes you need to leave the match because you have other stuff that you need to do. And sometimes you are having a horrible time playing a match and just wanna go to a better one. And sometimes you get a nurse or a pinhead on solo q and you don't want to deal with that.
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I want to be in a fair match. But when i am on the hook, and see one guy in the basement walkingin circles, and one guy hidding in a bush, while the 3rd runs straight to me, right in view of the killer, thats why i dont wanna be in that match anymore.
I never hook suicide because of killer, i do so because of teammates. I run bond, and i am usually very aware of what my teammates do.
so you want to take away hook suicide? Then give me a way to avoid those teammates in the first place. MMr needs to change how it is calculated, escpaes is not a metric for it.
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????
They game even has different symbols for connection loss, sacrifice and bleedout/Mori, what are you talking about?
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Both sides do have a chance to win, at least at higher MMR. In higher MMR survivors are favoured even, so it isn't a matter of the game being imbalanced. The problem is that some players give up at the mildest inconvenience and that ruins the rest of the game for every single other player, except the killer if they just want an easy win.
Also you are not handcuffed to the game. You can quit if you want but there is a minor penalty for ruining the game for your fellow survivors. Anyone who does not disconnect every few games won't have to deal with any penalties higher than a 5 min matchmaking ban.
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Then you should have disconnecting penalty, it's not like they are extremely harsh.
lolwhat, you always have a SWF feature to play with exact person you want to play with...
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My internet tends to malfunction once or twice a day while i play so i avoid DCing intentionally so i dont accumulate restriction time, i leave intentionally DCing to hacker matches. Hook suicide doesn't take long.
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If a survivor is on a hook and they suddenly DC, does the game not count that as a sacrifice? Or is it still a DC? I could've sworn it counted it as a sacrifice because it played through the same animation
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Honestly, the quick and easy solution is to simply remove the struggle phase from stage 2 of the hook. Make it decay at the same rate as a survivor that hit every skill check would. As it stands, those skill checks are nearly impossible to miss. I can't remember the last time I missed one, and I don't play survivor nearly as much as killer. Reassurance might need to be tweaked, because you wouldn't want it giving 30 seconds on stage 2, like it does stage 1. Wouldn't be hard to tweak it. Could simply just make it like stage 1, but reduce it to 15 seconds instead of 30.
As a killer main, I can honestly say that the skills checks for people that are on stage 2, mean absolutely nothing to me. I know most survivors are going to hit every skill check. So yea, just get rid of it so survivors can't suicide themselves.
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Well for the record it wasn't directed at anyone it was a general statement, but I understand many like to think everything is about them.
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The person the comment was meant for understood it well enough, I don't know why you require an explanation.
Valid reasons for ending the game early can take the DC penalty. This too was already brought up in this thread.
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Oddly enough I see far more DCs than suicides though.
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Please explain.
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I'm just stating if you want to ruin a match for your own personal problem then you should have penalty.
I'm not asking why you avoid it.
Also if your network is as problematic as that, you really better not play online games tbh.
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Okay, i admit that's such an edge case that i have never seen that happen. Either they DC from my shoulder OR suicide but never DC from the hook. No idea how the game handles that one. but then again, that's such an extreme niche case that it isn't even worth consideration outside of possible future abuse.
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This. It's pretty much the end of the discussion. Whatever reasoning/methodology that will be thrown up to prevent DCs/suicides, at the end of the line the player that wants out is not going to play towards the outcome you want.
I got stuck in a match as the 4th player in a 3-player SWF that just wanted to troll the killer, and was going up against a crazy good Nurse. A few mins in I was hooked and done. Tried to suicide out, the SWF kept me on the hook with Reassurance for as long as possible then unhooked me. Nurse went for me instead of the unhooker, hooked again. The SWF player came back, hit me with Reassurance again, waited almost the full second hook stage, then unhooked me again. I stayed at the hook, the Nurse realized I wanted out, then ignored me. I parked in the basement to soak up passive BPs and played another game in the background until the other three were hooked, then waited out their hook timers while walking around to get rid of the AFK crows. I was running Clairvoyance and had cleansed a totem early on, found the hatch, escaped. Enjoyed every second of the vile spew from the three salt licks while the killer laughed at them, moved on to the next trial.
So what would happen in the same situation with the OP's suggested changes? Not much of anything different. AFK on hook for however long that takes to die and do something else (another game, Netflix, YouTube, FB, etc.), or get unhooked and go AFK if the killer won't hook me again. If the other survivors are being particularly annoying maybe do something passive/aggressive like follow them around while sprinting, cleanse the totems their boons were on after the killer snuffs them out, collect all the items from chests and hide them, self-heal beside them while they work on gens or hang on hooks, throw all the pallets so the killer can just get rid of them right away, fail skill checks on gens they're repairing, etc.
However it goes, the fact is it'll ultimately not go the way the OP and similar players want, no matter how hard they want it and whine/moan about it. No amount of changes or punitive action is going to deter it, and the more irritating the changes get the less players will play. With the state of the game as it is, with BHVR having to throw double BP bonuses most of the time just to get enough of a particular type of player to even play, they wouldn't risk losing more of the playerbase. It's the same as them not making any changes that would limit SWFs.
TL/DR: Never going to happen. Do yoga or make a mini desk Zen garden to enhance your calm and get on with your life.
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Unlike your belief, people will DC/suicide less when they get punished for it, that is exactly the reason why DC penalty is kept here.
So no, it will change.
Also, people who love throwing games leaving DbD is a healthy for the community.
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Its not problematic, sometimes internet malfunctions. It doesn't happen often, but when it happens it tends to happen once or twice right when i play. I play online just fine most of the time. I never get more than 15 minutes of restriction.
If the game wasn't in such a miserable state generally speaking in solo q a lot of players wouldn't feel the need to suicide on hook so they can get to a better match. Does it suck when someone does it on your match? Of course, but i can't blame anyone for doing it now a days. I dont do it myself too often but when im having a terrible time i dont see why i have to force myself to play a match im not having fun in when that's the point of playing the game, to have fun. Devs have to fix their matchmaking system and stop making undesirable changes and suicides will start happening less.
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Or just actually fix abusable mechanics that will be used to circumvent intended punishment, that'd be lot more logical because otherwise it ultimately means survivors can force dev to do whatever changes as long as they suicide on hook.
Also, usual networks won't DC you from the game every day, so even it's still problematic more or less.
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Because they can't accept losing?
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Or there is no real penalty to it and anyone can freely do such without losing anything.
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I see DC's and suicides alot in my survivor games and its probably because people don't want to play againt certain killers who arent fun and tbh I can't blame them. I don't think either one should be punished by a penalty, but maybe something else as it does esentially make the others chance of escape 0
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Nah.
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Sorry for the late reply.
Yes, it would stop killers from applying pressure. That's why you can't just remove mid-game deaths, you have to give killers other instruments to apply pressure in a different way. Build-in thanatophobia, build-in Artist's "block gens after all survivors were hooked once" (and maybe not for 30 seconds but until survivors do smth to unblock) and other different things to apply pressue in a fun and not boring way.
Maybe killer could be able gain hook- or time-tokens and light up hexes for those tokens. You can imagine plenty of features and plenty of new perks for that. Also we can then balance game around new conditions and make killers stronger. At the same time camping and tunnelling won't work because camp and tunneling is for eliminate someone to gain advantage and you can't get advantage by this now, you'll just loose. Genrushing won't be possible too if you add build-in balance features to prevent it (you can limit gen repairing speed; or make it more profitable for survs to group up on one gen; or make some gens be blocked by Entity and make Entity change blocked gens after completing one gen to make looking for survivors easier and make it impossible to complete two or three gens in a short time).
And you have to change the win conditions too, of course. You have to base it on hooks or time of the game, for example. It's Dead by Daylight after all, maybe survivors need to do smth before Daylight or they'll die? Idk.
So, yeah, it's kinda hard reconstruction the game needs to achieve that. That's my point: in my opinion, those problems (like suicides, camping, tunneling, genrushing and so on) are core things, you can't fix them without either huge re-make of all basics or making experience worse for one (or both) side. Unfortunately.
That's why devs are changing slugging by re-making the whole mori system and adding new features. You can't just remove smth. And you can't just remove suicide button either.
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I just had a solution 2 pages back that addressed suicides not corrupting developer data while also lessening their impact on the rest of the game, and doing so in a way that automated most of the process and even allowed for a sliding scale approach to punishment to account for false positives. It got 2 votes up and 0 replies.
You don't need to reinvent the wheel. You just need to put in the simple types of variable storage that should have been in the game since day 1.
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There are numerous problems with soloq, and this is one of them. Just because someone would participate in one negative aspect doesn't mean they cannot dislike other negative things. They just cannot vocalize their displeasure with the same type of thing they participate in without the risk of hypocrisy.
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Honesly, I didn't get difference between your suggestion and OP's (maybe because of my English). Afai understand, on first stage you can self-unhook only early and that's exactly what suiciders need, or you can self-unhook only too late - and then you can't try it three times - it's a nerf for legit situations. Then, no matter whether you hit skillchecks or no, you can't change anything because if you don't hit skillcheck they just stop to appear - you sit on 2d phase and wait others to save you, you can't die and can't decide to stay alive. Then why try to hit skillchecks is the first place and how it's not more boring and not more agency-less than now?
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