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BHVR, why is there a loophole around the DC penalty?
DCing incurs the respective DC penalty. AFKing and sandbagging are against rules and can eventually lead up to a permanent ban.
So why is there a penalty-free loophole via suiciding on hook to achieve the exact same result of quitting out?
Yes, you cannot force people to keep playing a match. That is not the point. They should not have a penalty-free loophole for quitting. You still want to quit anyways? Then DC. (Or AFK/sandbag at your own risk.)
In response to brainless nonsense like "well ackshyually maybe u shouldnt play stuff other ppl dont like then": They are not even remotely equivalent. That is comparing actively playing a part of the game to actively choosing to give up and quit playing the game.
EDIT since I apparently have to make this clear: I am not advocating for punishing hook suiciding. If hook suiciding just wasn't possible at all in the first place, then there is nothing to punish. Example of what I mean:
Comments
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How could the system fairly distinguish a suicide on hook from someone just trying free themselves and/or being terrible at skill checks? In principle I agree with you, but that's a problem without a solution, imo.
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By not having a system that can facilitate something like that in the first place:
- Rework self-unhook mechanic so it cannot immediately force stage 2. There’s a huge variety of ways this could be done in any sort of mix and match or with other compensation. A few examples:
- The 3 attempts no longer penalize time. The 3 attempts are risk-free. Luck/Slippery Meat reworked/base % chance reworked if or as necessary.
- Only 1 chance instead of 3 (-20s X 1 instead of X 3).
- Self-unhook attempt is only unlocked in certain situations or with active Deliverance and Luck/Slippery Meat are reworked.
- Struggle phase skillchecks only affect Bloodpoints. Can no longer ignore 2 consecutive checks or fail 3 checks to die. Maybe a Give Up option if only 1 other survivor is alive, for attempt at hatch. But no other situation.
For example, 1a + 2 = A survivor literally cannot force their own hook timer to go faster. Hook suicide would be literally impossible outside of trying to give hatch in last 2 scenario.
13 - Rework self-unhook mechanic so it cannot immediately force stage 2. There’s a huge variety of ways this could be done in any sort of mix and match or with other compensation. A few examples:
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As many times as I see this topic, I will upvote ideas that support holding quitters accountable.
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The fun thing is it could literally be an improvement for mature players too. For instance, Struggle skillchecks that are like what happens when yellow glyph meets Madness. Nonstop checks that spawn anywhere on the screen. Toss in a great skillcheck zone for even more bonus points and now you got a fun rhythm mini-game for people who want more Bloodpoints, and can also help give an intensity of trying to land every check. Maybe even combo streak Bloodpoint bonuses or whatnot.
And stuff like no penalty on self-unhook attempts also means new players don't accidentally screw their teammates, and Luck/Slippery Meat could potentially even be reworked into something better or more overall useful.
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Ahhh yes let's remove spamming space to stay alive on the hook and replace it with... spamming space on hook to stay alive.
This sounds really fun.
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Yeah, I was thinking of it strictly from a punitive point of view. That all makes sense.
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Did you not read what I said? It would be literally purely for bonus Bloodpoints in struggle phase, for anyone that wants to take a stab at a high-paced rhythm mini-game.
What do you think of the rhythm mini game idea to spice things up in a fun way for anyone who wants to challenge themselves for some sweet bonus Bloodpoints?
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As much as I hate quitters you don't know why theyre suiciding on hook, maybe they've been playing for 8 hours straight and they're just done so they'd rather suicide when they get caught, maybe needed a bathroom break or maybe they're just crybabies 🤷 who knows? Lol as much as I would like a penalty for it I don't think BHVR would ever do that and if somehow they did it would probably get bugged and ban everyone who dies on hook
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I'd rather die and go next if the match is obviously over and get a match worths of bp than play a "high paced rythym mini-game" of spamming the space bar.
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Which is why the solution is to remove the loophole from being possible in the first place. If it is literally impossible to hook suicide, no reason to punish something that can’t be done.
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Then you can tab out for 60s, no biggie.
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Can't tell the difference between suicide or a DC
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If you read my second post in the thread, it answers your comment. Won’t need to differentiate hook suicide if it literally isn’t possible!
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I need hook suicides sorry.
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You’re a problem scourging this game sorry.
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But how would the game tell the difference? What happens if the other survivors are downed and they're trying to free themselves? Or if a solo player is with a swf group who leaves them on hook or just trolls instead of playing the game? Are you telling me that person should endure a penalty for that situation? The game won't be able to tell the difference in some situations where you'd probably do it yourself , like a trolling swf just hiding and not doing gens or anything just to see how long they can hide (sad but I've seen it before) there's certain variables you can't account for where I would say it's acceptable to not want to be in the match
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I don't do it to spite, but it's actually necessary for numerous reasons to be fair.
Post edited by EQWashu on6 -
Why should I have to? I paid for the game, I'd like to play it, if the last person is hiding and I can go to the next game I'll opt for that, good luck telling console players to tab out btw.
So glad I'll never be like this as a killer lmao.
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Well said. Finally someone who knows what they're talking about.
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If you read what I said, hook suiciding could be made literally impossible. No penalty on the 3 self unhook attempts + struggle skillchecks not affecting time. Also the longest you'd have to wait is 2 minutes. If they're all using Reassurance and sandbagging you and not unhooking, then 3 and a half minutes, and also what they are doing is against rules and reportable anyways.
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"What do you think of the rhythm mini game idea to spice things up in a fun way for anyone who wants to challenge themselves for some sweet bonus Bloodpoints?"
I don't know about a rhythm game, but maybe they could do a tie in with Hatsune Miku/Vocaloid and bring in some more players (lol, kidding obvs).
If you're going to go the route of getting rid of the mechanics that allow hook suicides, just make it completely passive: no penalty for failed self-unhook attempts, no second stage skill checks at all. Just guarantee the hook stage duration will be at least two minutes if you're not unhooked or kobe.
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Hit home, close the game, play something better and not care about a 5 minute penalty.
That is the console way.
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Oh no, having to wait out a whole 60s in return for removing the possibility of hook suiciding being possible to ruin games ever again, the horror.
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Yeah, I would be fine with no self-unhook attempt penalty + no struggle skillchecks at all. It was just a random idea for trying to make it more fun. The former would definitely be easier though xd
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People will DC more and go AFK.
They'll hop in and out of lockers, drop pallets, sandbag teammates. Whatever they need to do in order to get out of the match faster, they'll do.
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Ahhh yea, that penalty, it definitely stays at 5 minutes
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Okay, and?
Either way, a hook suicide throws the match, especially early. The difference is DCing at least makes them sit in timeout for a while if they keep doing it, and sandbagging/AFKing is reportable and can lead up to a permanent ban.
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Ok and what is your complaint then? That you're winning too many matches due to suicides, or are you trying to force matches being longer because killer queue times aren't so fast any more?
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If you DC that often, that is a you issue.
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Ok I get what you're saying but that doesn't answer why you'd wanna be in that match? And no none of what I spoke about is bannable and you can clarify that with a mod if you want , I can go up to you on hook and t bag and pretend to unhook only to run away and leave you there because nothing in the rules say I have to unhook you and nothing that says I can't use perks to make life hell for the killer with no intention of escaping, so I can go into every game just absolutely throwing but they can't ban me as long as it even a smidge resembles some sort of normal gameplay and you want to make it to where if I have a squad doing this that you have no way out of the match except to sit there for the whole hook timer being a solo player. I think your idea is really good but it just needs to work a little differently to be effective
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That suicides ruin the match from being a normal experience for both sides. And killer queue time is like 40s, IDK what you mean.
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I get hackers a lot, but please continue.
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It is very obvious if you're doing something as blatant as spamming unhook over and over when the killer isn't there to grab-interrupt. But even that aside, at most, if they intentionally refuse to unhook you, you wait 2-3.5m. That’s not a huge amount. You could just straight up browse YouTube or Twitter on your phone or whatever if that’s happening. Removing the ability to hook suicide is comparatively more significant.
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Play killer or with a SWF. In solo queue the ability to suicide is a necessity.
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I’m sure you do. It sure is a good thing that anti-cheat improvements are constantly being worked on then.
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I'd rather not try to solve a problem that can't be fixed.
I'd rather address WHY people leave matches and minimize the damage it causes instead of trapping them in a game that they don't want to be in.
If you want to kill off what's left of the casual playerbase, I'd invite you to continue.
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"necessity" LOL
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It can be fixed though? Hook suiciding becomes impossible if you remove the self-unhook attempt penalty and skillchecks don’t affect time.
And you have this weird idea that the game is dying. It really isn't. Immature people will be able to DC as per usual.
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All you're doing is treating symptoms.
Try to address the root issue.
Why do people want out of matches?
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I think it's a good idea but needs work , also even that isn't bannable though I had a fog whisperer in a swf 2 years ago spam unhook me on live stream while I was being beat by the killer at the same time on the hook (they were friends) all because I slugged the said streamer and their friends as a killer a day or two before that and said gg in their chat but BHVR did nothing about it, there's still people who even do it every now and then to me these days and nothing ever gets done because nowhere in the rules does it say I have to unhook you when I'm nearby.
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Because they are immature. They queued up to play a match, and because it did not go how they wanted it, they threw the game and ruined it from being a normal game experience for everyone else.
Or IRL situation cropped up/cheater/game-breaking bug like being permanently stuck inside the hill. IRL situations will usually mean you’re away for longer than the timer anyways. Anti-cheat is being improved on. Gamebreaking bugs can now be killswitched for thankfully (eg disabling the map entirely).
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That sucks, I’m sorry to hear about that experience. On the plus side, either way, it won’t take long. A few minutes max and it’ll be over anyways.
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Okay.
Not even close, but it sure explains a lot about your mindset.
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Mature players can face parts of the game they dislike without resorting to ragequitting and ruining it for everyone else. Says a lot more about you than anything else.
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I've had a few games in the last two weeks where i was left on the hook at the end while my teammates sat at the exit gates pointing in my direction and t bagging. Making no effort to come save me at all. Thankfully i was able to not do the struggle checks and went onto the next game instead of having to put up with it longer than necessary.
People can be pricks.
However, I do agree that you shouldn't be able to send yourself directly to the struggle phase.
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60s is not a big loss in return for being able to permanently prevent hook suiciding, to be fair.
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If it is really that big of an issue, be quicker at getting people off the hook. Or better yet bring reassurance and hit that to make them wait longer before you pull them off the hook, you can consider it an in game spanking.
also 60 seconds may not seem like a long time, but let me tell you this. Time is finite, and you shouldn't be telling people how they should spend their time. 60's over the course of a bad dbd day can add up to 5 minutes over the course of a week even longer. Time is precious and spending it situations like i described above if it can be avoided absolutely should be avoided.
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Except that isn’t the only reason people hook suicide. I agree what your teammates did was crappy.
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You're starting to grate on me and I'm not sure why.
If the Killer has 6 hooks before any gens are done, I'm not gonna bother sticking around after I get hooked, sorry. It's better to go next and forget about it.
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That is a matchmaking issue, which should be addressed regardless. Hook suicide still should not be possible, because that causes problems in a multitude of scenarios.
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