So why has Nurse grown in power in Year 6 so much?
I've just been thinking recently and...why did Nurse get so,oh so many buffs,be direct or indirect with a minor nerf to the range addons that made them go from extremely OP to just extremely strong.
5.3.0 - 3 Blinks are back and still present. Makes it impossible to outplay even a below average Nurse as she can correct any mistake.
5.5.0 - Nurse is significantly easier to play now - you no longer have to swing at a good timing post-blink and can just do an M1 immediately. She ignores pallet stuns in fatigue now,making using pallets against her,which used to be a rare occasion but significantly punished her into nothing. Additionally her lunge seems to be weirder now,with far more questionable hits. Edit: She also got a major buff to her recharge. Previously a 99% recharged blink progress would be lost if you blinked,but now it restarts at that 99% completed recharged. Why.
6.1.0 - Major Nurse Buff but indirectly. Survivors take longer to do generators. Survivors make substantially less distance on hit and she has less of a cooldown on her attacks. You now make practically no real distance against her,even to already pitiful distance you had against her before. Tunneling on her is now way better with DS being dead and DH being dead whenever you are being tunneled. Range addons have been back to omega blink since 5.5.0.
6.2.0 - Finally,Range addons no longer increase your blink speed anymore. First Nurse nerf in forever,still doesnt even do much.
So uhhh... why exactly has BHVR made Year 6 and the start of Year 7 into a net buff for the strongest killer in the game? She is an active hindrance to many perk designs like Starstruck,AA,etc... Still the biggest limiter to this game's balance after the terrible map design,but received pretty much nothing but buffs lately.
Comments
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What you are describing is a phenomena mostly seen in MOBA games called "Power Creep". TO put it as simply as possible, Power Creep is when a character in a video game either strengthens or weakens not because of any change made to the character itself, but instead by changes made to the game around the character instead.
For example, a few years ago in Overwatch, the effectiveness of shields was heavily increased. Shields reduced the incoming damage of each projectile that hit the shielded character. Now, is a single rocket from Pharah hit the shield, the damage decrease would be so minimal it might as well not exist because the damage was done by a single projectile. But Reaper used duel shotguns that shot ten projectiles per gun per shot. Each individual pellet from the shotgun was a seperate projectile, so each pellet got its damage reduced. This was a net nerf to Reaper not because of a change to him, but because of a change to the game around him.
That's the best example I can think of to explain Power Creep. Now lets apply that to the Nurse. While the Nurse has seen some changes that made her weaker, she has mostly gotten buffs not to herself, but buffs though the introduction of powerful perks that synergize with her power quite well. Power Creep in a nutshell
I hope this explanation has been helpful
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Well your last point shows she did get a nerf.
And gens may take longer but most regression perks got gutted so if anything it equals out.
Very Old nurse could have more than 3 blinks, but those blinks get massively less distance and it's why range addons are way better.
Any vet will remember versing 3blink nurses with ruin (which forced great skillchecks or your gen regressed) pop before all its nerfs. Not to mention you had less perks to help you against the killer and yet we still won.
Shes not been buffed at all in anyway, vets just delt with the game and got on with it instead of complaining but that's what happens when games become more popular
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Thats not exactly Power Creep but its an explanation for Nurse being stronger than ever, mainly because Survivors got so many nerfs while she got only a few.
Power Creep is mostly when newer released content is more powerful than the older by several reasons like bloated skill sets, new skills, new mechanics, monetary reasons etc.
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Yeah ...
Back in the days:
- lots of blinks (even more with add-ons)
- few detection perks (whispers, no aura-reading perks but nurses and bitter)
- few slowdown perks (just ruin, after hag release)
- no instant down perk before the end (just devour, again after hag release)
- inability to cancel long range blinks by looking at floor, ...
Typical meta-build for nurses (shadowborn and bitter/noed combo were also very popular):
On top of that: any decent nurse hardly ever needs 3+ blinks to get quick downs
Conclusion: the nurse killer is -- by far -- more deadly nowadays than in 2016/2017, this is just fact!
Post edited by gnehehe on1 -
A nerf that made 2 of her addons go from extremely overpowered (which they got buffed to with 5.5.0) to still extremely strong.
Oh no. This nerf is sure to make Nurse unplayable. Oh wait.
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I dunno. There has been a lot of buffs directly to nurse and then an indirect buff. This isnt just power creep,this is just BHVR not even thinking about making Nurse make sense in DBD's balance.
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Gens take longer, maps are brighter, maps are smaller.
Perks are added telling killers pretty much any info they want.
When Nurse was added there was Nurses Calling, Deerstalker & Bitter Murmur.
Now there is Awakened Awareness, Barbecue & Chilli, Blood Warden, Darkness Revealed, Gearhead, Hex Retribution, Hex Undying, I'm All Ears, Infectious Fright, Lethal Pursuer, Lightborn, Rancor, Scourge Hook Floods of Rage and Territorial Imperative (lol).
That's 14 additional ways for the Nurse to find you compared to when she was released.
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I said it and I’ll say it again. Nurse needs a complete rework. The fact this killer can even use starstruck + awakened awareness; floods of rage + make your choice and more on top of her broken power is beyond me.
Her teleportation through everything needs to go. Make her strong but not overpowered. Create a killer that is fun to play but can be countered.
Post edited by legacycolt on7 -
You must be really tall with all the stretching you are doing.
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5.5.0: you forgot that if you only had one blink and the second 99ed, and started charging, both blinks would recharge from 0. Since her recoding, the recharging restarts where it left
That, along with the pallet stun into fatigue removal, were two major buffs she really did not need
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Right,that escaped me. Faster recharge for her blinks yayyy. I've seen the green recharge addon so much I forget that she got a recharge occasionally tbh.
God what a stupid killer..
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People were garbage at the game back in the day,lmao. Killers still got 4Ks with infinites,double pallets and all the good stuff.
Post edited by kizuati on0 -
Quoting this Freudian slip for posterity.
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What?
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Yea but they said that was the best example they could think of. But yea Nurse have become a Power Creep in her own right because of the net changes that was needed for Killers as a whole, but this also benefits high skilled players as well that didn't need it because of their skill but benefit from it.
But now because of so many players making Matchmaking so horrible because of their actions many are feeling it at all skill levels.
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Still of the opinion baseline changes were a bad idea. Individiual Killer and Map pain points were the main problem imho. Their general machine gun approach has resulted in the strongest killers receiving buffs and the weakest survivor groups being steamrolled. Alas,BHVR cannot think of a surgical approach on the entire game.
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The difference is, if a player is good, you cannot do anything about it. Like, you cannot avoid that the good player also benefits from it, you cannot make the good player play less good.
However, the Devs can at some point start to make the broken Killer less broken. Especially if they buff general things which also benefit Nurse.
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Doesn’t seem to help most of the Nurses I face. She doesn’t need any changes, and is BHVR’s best designed killer to date.
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I agree a machine gun approach is a bad idea because then a power creep scenario can occur easily. This way also looks over other aspects that need looked at as well, for example they increased Gen times so in turn they nerfed Gen slowdowns as a whole while keeping or buffing Gen reduction perks. But what they overlooked was the Perks that made Gen Rushing such a issue for non mobile Killers. Because of this oversight and new perks Gens continue to fly and makes the need of stacking Slowdowns which forces the Gen Rush mindset....it's a toxic loop of annoying situations.
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I agree as long as broken Killers don't get a Freddy size Nerf....no one needs that.....
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The thing is that they buffed gen regression in a way where it's not that good vs coordinated SWFs but vs solo queue players it's the nastiest ######### ever. What as a solo player you can do vs your team 3 gening while the killer has eruption overcharge call of brine jolt? Nothing.
At least with ruin undying you could do bones yourself.
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Thats why I think that Nurse needs a full Rework to keep her interesting and strong.
I dont really think that you can nerf Nurse, because she will always be too strong unless you nerf her so hard that she is too weak. And that should not be the goal.
But the Devs will never rework her, they fear the backlash. Even if it is needed, Nurse should not exist like this in 2022. In 2016 with actual Infinites and lots of broken stuff she was justified, but not nowadays.
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yeah Nurse is the biggest hindrance to this game after the maps it's tragic. Imo a cool rework for her would be making her a 110/112,5 killer that has to earn a weaker version of her current power for a time like Oni. Would make her nicer for newer players and less overpowered in the hands of the stronger players.
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Yea the quality of teammates is very lacking these days and sadly I'm stuck in low hell getting teammates that have braincells the size of a dust particle or teammates that will DC or suicide when things don't go thier way.
I can usually break a early 3 Gen if my team can keep the killer busy or don't do those gens while I loop the Killer.....
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I don't think is much about backlash but rather the time to try and come up with a new power for her, test it, make changes etc. That time would better be suited dealing with the bigger balance issues in the game...maps for starters..
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I would really like a Visionairy rework where it incorporates Deja Vu with white auras and a permanent repair bonus to those 3 gens. Also remove the cooldown. Maybe we'll get it run more often!
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I think they just have no idea how to do it tbh. Same goes for maps. They seem clueless.
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Well seeing how New Haddonfeild and the Garden of Pain maps ...I agree
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The nurse is wrong by design and it had its reasons back then when she was released.
There were infamous infinites (Literally) and devs wanted to address it, so instead of actually addressing the actual issue and fixing/reworking; they just decided to release a band-aid killer that ignores all mechanics of their own game.
Until she is reworked/tuned down, nurse will keep gaining indirect buffs whenever any good perk/general buff comes out.
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or.. new rpd. or old rpd. or any new map in the past few years
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i hecking love behavior and their signature band aid fixes
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The major Problem is: every change is passively a Nurse-Buff.
Thats because Nurse doesnt care about game mechanics.
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I mean kind of. But there's a been a lot of direct buffs to her and such an obvious indirect bfuf that should have been caught by BHVR but I guess they dont care.
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Nurse is outdated. She is a relic of a completely different time. She got nerfed quite hard if you compare her now to when she was on her peak but she is still too strong. The problem is that BHVR seem to like Nurse's design, which is ok because she is a fun and engaging killer, and don't know how to handle her. They removed omega blink so I recon they know how strong she is but nerfing her without changing her base kit too much is not an easy task. If the second blink worked as a M2 she would be a bit less problematic but even more boring to face, since you would only see 4 slowdown perks then. But even that would not be enough for Nurse to not hold the game's balance back. We literally had to nerf Awakened Awareness just because of her.
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Honestly she is way,way easier to play now for the average player now which is also a huge pain point. Not only do good nurses insta win matches,but average players can just use her pretty easy to use now kit (especially with 3 blinks and recharge) to ludicrously strong effect.
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Only caveat to your rant here is when nurse does a blink attack she does not have decreased attack cooldown (hence why save the best for last does not effect this). So the attack cooldown buff did nothing in this regard only the reduced speed boost.
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Oh I know. I think calling Nurse the hardest killer in the game is just an insult at this point. Build up some muscly memory, play a few games learning survivors's patterns and suddenly there is very little that can stop you. Some say it takes hundreds or thousands of hours but that is just not true. The reason Nurse is not that hard is because she has the power to actually correct mistakes and do things in the most direct and easy way you can imagine. She does not need to mindgame. She does not need to play perfect. She does not need to micro manage. She does not even have to learn tiles.
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Honestly I forgot that it doesnt apply because you gain and lose STBFL stacks from her attacks and I've been insane and actually running it on her for an archive.
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Just make her blink strikes count as special attacks so they wont work with exposed and she is fine,, honestly she might not be as hard as nurse players want to make her look but isn't as easy as salty survivors claim as well
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Funnily enough I think one of the biggest buffs she got was when they finally got around to actually fixing her. As someone who played her since before she had any cooldown, I found one of the hardest things about Nurse was dealing with all her bugs and knowing all the dead zones in maps etc.
Now Nurse actually works as she was meant to, it makes her far more accessible for average players. Though I still maintain that actually getting really good with her still takes a long time and (the small minority of) truly good survivors will destroy most Nurse players.
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She will still not be fine
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Her skill ceiling is not that high but yeah,the skill floor has dropped significantly now that she is fixed. It's DH validation on steroids.
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So what would you propose?
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Totally disagree about skill ceiling, the fact is most survivors are potatoes and even playing walking Nurse you will win. However I do agree the skill floor has dropped as I pretty much stated. But against the minority of truly good survivors only the truly skilled Nurse players will do well and even I can make most Nurses give up on chasing me, simply because I know how to play her to a fairly high level
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Gut her recharge,range and 3 blink addons. Blinks are special attacks. Nurse is a 110% speed Killer who has to earn her power like Oni for a short time. Newer player experience is better as she has M1 andy chasing possibilities,doesnt limit every perk in existence and survivors can brace for impact when she gets her power. I would also nerf her blink's recharge rate.
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I could see her purple range addon gettin removed, blinks are special attacks, the 3 blink addon is irrelevant as almost no one uses it every knowledgeable nurse playee streamer says is either overkill or actually hindering you because of the drawbacks,, and no we dont need another oni,, have you see what happens when survivors predrop against oni? He gets his power too little to late with only the instadown being the only thing able to allow a chance for comeback, something nurse has no access to
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Umm nerds arent meant to make killers unplayable...
A nerf is a nerf, and while nurse could do with some tweaks the strongest killer in the game is expected to be strong...
Kinda dumb otherwise, not every killer needs to be a push over and balanced for bad survivors. Imagine how bad itd be for every killer to be a weak M1...
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It is quite tiring seeing people complain about everything, the OP even said while some things got nerfed she wasnt made unplayable.... like what...
I'm just saying things was harder, DBD had a smaller community and games that have a smaller community tend to be harder or niche. DBD has moved for a more casual game hence why stuff is easier now.
Ruin is a perfect example, you had to get greats or your gen regressed. Now its basic kick regression and still a hex, it's fine to balance for casuals but you have to balance for a casual killer as well which as we know most players cant play nurse hence her low kill rate...
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you should Google the words sarcasm and hyperbole.
the meaning behind that reply that this nerf was extremely insignificant and the nurse is still overpowered.
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Regardless, I still strongly believe that all she needs is her range add-ons removed, her recharge add-ons nerfed in numbers, and her M1 to be counted as special
If they add back the stun into fatigue feature, that's a plus
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