The "Make This Perk Basekit" Argument

Iron_Cutlass

game design issues

I feel as if this applies to both sides, but you see time and time again that people saying to make perks basekit, and while I feel as if some things are justified, it would be better to point out how some game and perk design aspects conflict with having things become basekit. I would like to just point out some basekit perk ideas that Ive seen that work and do not work (cont. Community Basekit Suggestions).

And furthermore, I do think we know how such changes affect the game as a whole. Typically with games, whenever something gets changed, it can conflict with existing things and cause various bugs and glitches. For all we know something cannot be applied basekit because the game itself is not designed properly to support it, thus breaking everything.

community issues

Fairness is something thrown around the community. "If ____ gets ____ then I should get ____" is not something uncommon to see with perk basekit suggestions. I feel as if this mindset really needs to be dropped by the community because this is one of the most conflicting things with basekit perks. No one will be satisfied. Group A will ask for more. Group B will ask to get something equal to Group A. Rinse and repeat.

community basekit suggestions (my opinions on them /// Bias warning)

Deerstalker

This perk being basekit would completely make Tenacity's reducing of grunts of pain while in the dying state pointless. And even if you decrease the range for it significantly, the range would have to be so low that having it as a basekit perk would be pointless.

This is one I really wanted to highlight specifically this perk since it conflicts with Game Design Issues previously mentioned.

Kindred

I personally would love Kindred to be basekit but the issue is that, well, what are they going to do to Kindred to make it better. But not having it basekit is also an issue since it is healthy for the game.

Ive seen people state that the killer's aura being show by Kindred should increase survivor repair speeds, and that does seem like a good idea, but I feel like it would also just punish people going to kick gens or snuff boons near a hooked survivor, so Idk how to feel about it really.

BBQ&C

This one kind of falls under Kindred, the perk itself is healthy for the game, but there is not really much you can do with the perk itself once you make it basekit.

Also it is a licensed perk so we do not really know how much can be changed about it form BHVR's end of things.

so where does this lead us?

As much as I hate to say it, we are not going really anywhere.

The community and game design really do conflict with changes. Nothing is really as cut and dry as people make it out to be since BHVR, at the end of the day, are the ones pulling the strings and making the decisions regardless as to where we stand as a community, together and divided.

AJStyIez

Don't get me wrong, I understand everything you said and don't disagree completely, but not everybody is in Group A or Group B

There's Group C, the people who play both sides and know the history of the game, know that perks/addons are often used as band-aids for bad maps/conflicting game mechanics and that you shouldn't have to always sacrifice a slot to mitigate things out of your hands

Like seriously, How many years were killers told to cope with Pop or other gen perks to compensate for the fact that basekit kicking a gen did absolutely nothing? And the same people who told Killers to use the bandaid perks to solve that issue are the same ones who apparently can't stand the slowdown meta and shame people for running those perks

BT was insanely overpowered on release, but it evolved over time to be the healthiest perk in the game and its now basekit which is great. People were told for mad long to cope with stealth Killers/Freddy proxy camping for free downs since BT was tied to the terror radius and was pretty much a mandatory perk slot a lot of the time. People abused the hell out of this

I do agree that not every single inconvenience should have a built in mechanic to compensate but certain things are very different. BHVR's band-aid method causes a lot of harm to their game

JustAnotherNewbie

Make Bond two way maybe? I think it would help soloq a lot if you could see your teammates that are close to you and they could also see you. I would consider running it to be honest.

Aftercare can stay the same and there is no limit to the distance you can see survivors and they can see you and maybe it needs something extra cause it's a bit underwhelming atm.

Actually scratch that. People you have unhooked or heal should also be able to see people they unhook or heal. I think that would be quite nice for soloq if you want to play as a team, and maybe for your teammates they can have a cooldown? Like be able to see survivors they healed, got healed by or unhooked for 30 secs or something. Of course this cycle starts with you and is reinforced everytime? And it stops having an effect when you die?

Xernoton

I'm conflicted on this. On one hand it would be nice to see something like Kindred implemented as a base game mechanic. On the other hand this would increase the number of perks survivors have to 6 each. Also it would elevate Open Handed to one of the best perks in the game. Anyone who has ever tried this combination before will know what I'm talking about. You see the killer over a huge part of the map and it just wouldn't be fair.

The main problem I have with this, however, is: Where will this end? We can't just implement another perk and then another and another etc. to the base kit because then eveything is going to be base kit soon. It's a slippery slope. Creating precedence unfortunately is enough for people to ask for more and more. After Kindred people would ask for Bond and so on. That's why I believe doing that with any more perks (even in weaker forms) is a bad idea.

Instead of adding Kindred they should implement a way for SoloQ to communicate and delegate. Maybe with an emblem system or something similar.

Murgleïs

The issue with making perks basekit is getting free value for no effort. The best exemple is Kindred. Free info that will make the killer life so miserable it will encourage tunneling and worse, facecamping.

If you want to make a perk basekit, you have to chose something that is rewarding survivors for playing well and coordinated like Aftercare. Same thing for killers.

RaSavage42

Well BHVR put themselves on this slippery slope...

They need to recode this game like years ago (when they know that they had the Halloween license and started to make it)

we can discuss why or why not until our fingers bleed but we don't have a say in the final decision

RonMan32

Most perks people call to be basekit should not be basekit. Perks either address a weakness/act as a counter to the other side, or just do something generally helpful. Getting that for free isn't a great plan most of the time. People want shattered hope as basekit. Shattered hope is a HARD COUNTER to boons. Boons would be worthless. Basekit unbreakable in the new Mori system seems like it could wreck havoc on the game's design.

At the end of the day, perks help survivors escape and killers get kills. They are created as just that, to help in specific ways. You get to choose 4 helpers, the rest is on you. Very few perks fit the bill of help that either side should just have anyway.

All of that said I'm a supporter of a dumbed down basekit corrupt and basekit kindred. Maybe something that isn't exactly basekit BBQ but points you in the general direction of survivors after getting a hook would be nice.

Carth

because where does it stop?

having to choose between recovering OR moving is so frustrating and bad, tenacity needs to be basekit.

Hard of hearing people having to use a perk for info isn't fair, spine chill needs to be basekit.

Being punished for playing a character naturally louder isn't fair, iron will needs to be basekit.

Obviously people aren't hive minds but I have seen requests to make bond, kindred, decisive strike all base kit on this forum.

Additionally survivors are the only side who have gotten almost 100% of the effect of a perk basekit. Killers got sub sub 50% for brutal, save the best for last, and have nothing on the immediate horizon for basekit perks(that we know of). Survivors are about to get a second extremely meta perk that while not that big of a deal at basekit significantly buffs unbreakable in terms of both speed to get up and infinite recoveries.

TMCalypso

I'd be ok with (much) weaker versions of certain perks being basekit IF they are only basekit when you are not in a SWF. SWF doesn't really need the additional help and will just make them even stronger than they already are. SoloQ however, does need some help. I don't really know if it is possible to do...but I, personally, think that would be ok. Though, I am in the 'no more perks as basekit' camp. Just trying to find some middle ground between the two issues.

Sava18

Basekit bt was enough for now. What needs to happen before anything else as of now?

Killer side:

Nurse needs a complete rework not what bhvr classifies as a rework ex. Ghostface and legion. Regardless of if you like playing against her, her power does not fit in this game. She Ignores everything in the game in a very unhealthy way. Every killer has scenarios where they just kill you with nothing you can do. Nurse just has LoS which is not good counterplay.

Blight needs alch ring nerfed/reworked, c33 reworked and I would say iri tag as a blight main but I have quite literally never seen anyone complain about it or run it when I'm playing survivor

Survivor side:

Med-kits clearly need a nerf, 3-4 med-kits is a loss for most killers vs a competent team

Survivor spawns need to be the same every time. Either a 4 man spawn or 2 2. 4 might be too much but really all the survivors have to do is split up. We all know a 4 man split means game over for all but the top few killers.

Both sides:

Gen speed on both sides need to be way less significant. A full gen speed up build with a toolbox will make gens fly no matter who you are playing and what build you are running if survivors split up. And at the same time killers can make games last way too long in one of the most boring ways possible, holding a 3 gen all game with call of brine, overcharge, pain res and eruption. Perks just shouldn't be able to carry either side so hard, aura reading just gives you information and how you use it is actual skill expression. But either way it needs to be less impactful on both sides.

Map sizes need to be reduced and tiles need to have less rng imo. Like there should never be a t and l into a deadzone, but more commonly there should never be shack window right into a strong filler pallet into a long wall window facing shack window.

In regards to mmr, they at the very least gotta give a option to wait longer for more accurate opponents and teammates. Because while I'm fine getting opponents better than me or equal, dominating people worse then me when killer queues happen to be long at that time just makes me want to get off right afterwards. Although the survivor indication of gaining and losing mmr needs to change.

Finally solo queue needs those action indicators asap.

The only thing I could see being a problem to implement is gen speed up/slow down. That would probably be too hard to balance, but then again as it stands now its not too balanced either way.

I forgot about camping and tunneling until the end. But I really don't know what they would do about camping personally, other than just making all hooks function like p-head cages in terms of them moving. Tunneling really isn't worse than pre 6.1.0. I know most people don't like to be tunneled but I really don't know how much further they could take base-kit things there. DS nerf is fine as it stands because of how it function with otr. If you really don't want to be tunneled run otr, dh, ds and something else.

I really don't see a need to implement anymore basekit perks as it stands before other core things in the game are changed.

malatruse

Kindred

I personally would love Kindred to be basekit but the issue is that, well, what are they going to do to Kindred to make it better. But not having it basekit is also an issue since it is healthy for the game.

Ive seen people state that the killer's aura being show by Kindred should increase survivor repair speeds, and that does seem like a good idea, but I feel like it would also just punish people going to kick gens or snuff boons near a hooked survivor, so Idk how to feel about it really.

I would say make survivor auras basekit and change the perk so it only shows killer aura. That way it would still be useful but not essential for solo survivors.

TheSubstitute

I believe it should be done to reduce the delta in information between SWF and solo and/or to correct balance issues.

As an example, Kindred basekit without seeing the Killer's Aura would let people know who's going for the save. Status icons could do the same. However, as the code for Kindred is already in the game it would be a lot faster to implement basekit Kindred without the Killer's Aura.

The same applies to Bond that some people have asked for. I don't need to see the survivors auras; I just want to know if my teammates are on a gen.

In my opinion, once status icons are brought to the game then we don't need more basekit buffs. Certain perks do need buffing. As an example, Reassurance seems kind of lackadaisical in effect for taking up a perk slot especially since it's so situational and DS seems pretty meager for, once again, taking up a perk slot.

Basekit buffs could be considered to incentivize or disincentivize behaviour. BBQ and Chili would encourage more hooks and current DS would reduce tunneling but, in terms of basekit buffs, I think what's really needed is status icons instead. If that's not in the near future, then I'd like Kindred basekit.

Friendly_Blendette

Eh I still want to see deerstaker basekit especially with the new slug changes. Change tenacity to just ya know hide your aura while on the floor would entirely solve the problem with it. I think youre focusing too much on perks that were formerly not basekit just amplifying the basekit aspect when it would probably just be better to just give it a fresh effect its not like its unheard of for a perk to lose every trace of its old effect in favour of a new one.

Hexonthebeach

I don't want to see anymore perks going basekit. Basekit unbrekabale is already too much.

Whoudini

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350790/the-make-this-perk-basekit-argument

With the new unbreakable change tenacity is way worse, so deerstalker could be basekit which would be nice since pain sounds on the ground are bugged anyway.