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Massive DC-ing is a huge wake up call, BHVR!
Comments
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Is one match indicative of the entire game? There are a wide variety of potential experiences that can occur, and disliking less than 10% of those experiences is more than valid.
Strange to say "ruin other player's experiences" in a defense of playing Nurse. A Nurse pick in and of itself ruins a very high percentage of the player base's experience(Blight too, to a lesser degree), so by picking that Killer, the Killer player chose to statistically 'ruin' 2 or 3 out of 5 people's experience if we were to follow your logic. Also if it ruined one of those people's experience enough to cause a DC/quit, the Killer pick was indirectly responsible for ruining the experience for everyone else that wanted a 'real' match, possibly rising that to 4 or 5 out of 5. It is possible to not know that people don't like playing against Nurse/Blight, but that requires such a disconnect from reality that I don't think their skill level would be able to support killing Survivors other than through facecamping, or Survs throwing for the 4 man out.
Also the 'might' is the issue, they might have a 'real' match, or they might have the 5th Blight match in a row. I cannot blame anyone for being sick of any Killer on 5 times repeat 1/29^5 (or ~.000005% of matches) or Nurse 1/29 (3.4% of matches). That is a solid ~96% of 'real' matches. Some games have connection issues preventing more proper matches, so that is an acceptable margin of failure in my eyes.
Some people bring scummy things, and by doing so they prove they want an easy 'win'. These are the people who should be playing a single-player game since they want to play a multiplayer game on 'story-mode' difficulty. What is the issue with their opposition shortcutting to the mostly foregone conclusion? Especially if they brought a meme build that can't compete with their opponent's scummy build. What is the difference in the 'win' happening at the 2 minute mark instead of the 20? 18 minutes of people's time and energy being saved for a potential 'real' match, the kind of match that brings people back to the game, enjoying their time, and willing to spend more money on the game. Theoretically I have a greater chance of winning against a Starstruck Nurse when I get the 4% kobe, than when I get rescued by a teammate. It is the best chance of success, which is sad given how low that chance is. I'd say about 90% of my teammates get caught en route (either from them being bad, them giving up on seeing Starstruck, or the Nurse's intel perks), which compared to my cumulative ~11.5% 3 Kobe chance, is better to go for the Kobe.
Now other games have a feature to ban unique characters that would otherwise be unenjoyable, overpowered, or ruin your experience. I would have a Killer ban system for Survivors, that allows 1 ban per 5 Killers released/not killswitched (5 now at 29 total, and 6 when the next Killer is released at 30 total). (SWF would either use the lobby leader's bans, or cycle through each person's bans to create a list of the max bans Eg. 3 bans for (1)Nurse/Blight/Doctor and (2)Nurse/Plague/Oni would take Nurse(1)/Plague(2)/Blight(1)) That way people who hate Nurse/Blight don't have to go against them, people with epilepsy or issues with strobing/flashing don't have to go against Doctor, and people with emetophobia don't have to go against Plague. Similarly I would give Killers a map/realm ban at the same 1/5 rate. That way Blight doesn't have to cry about swamp, and stealth Killers won't have to tear their face off attempting to play on Blood Lodge.
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Nurse is a part of the game. If you are DCing just because you're dealing with a part of the game, especially over something that occurs less than 10% of the time, you should stop being selfish and go to a single player game or role such as Killer.
By DCing you are only spoiling the experience for four other people. If you have to DC over something that occurs so infrequently you should not be playing in a role where people rely on you to put in a good faith effort.
The DCer is the one at fault for ruining the experience for other people; not the Killer, not BHVR, only the DCer.
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The solution is ban the most consistent abusers. So odd that some survivors think they can get changes to what they don't like by creating an entirely different problem for everyone.
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I am still baffled by the math (or lack of) behind ragequit DCing.
Okay, I face a super sweaty Starstruck God Nurse, no one last longer then two blinks in a chase and I am hooked. Why would I DC, just to spite the Nurse player and face escalating DC bans, but a minimum of 5min, when I could just die honestly and be back in the next lobby in 20s?
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You get a lot DCs for using Lethal Pursuer. I legitly sometimes see survivors memeing with themselves at the start of the match, ie pointing at each other and repeatedly crouching, not paying attention to the enthusiastic Pyramid Head closing in. And then it's POTD, followed by a cleaver swing and it's a 50/50 if you get a hook or a DC.
Bonus points if you noticed the badly concealed survivor right next to the hook and just smack then for good measure and thus make the decision to DC easier.
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I have never seen such a DC epidemic in any other game I have played, ever. I highly doubt 100% of this massive DC movement are just unreasonable crybabies. I think a decent portion of the people who DC are just tired and fed up.
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Anyone who is actually tired or fed up with the game is just going to stop playing. People who are mass DCing are crybabies, because they can't handle the game not going how they want it to go.
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Sadly they won't care unless the initial ban is worse the DC issues will continue. Even then players will still DC even if it's 3 hr ban. Then they will just suicide
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You may actually be on to something because I have never DC’d but I have recently quit DbD due to the DC problem and matchmaking. Fair point.
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I see you didn't read my reply to the other person. Rephrased here, by knowing people dislike Nurse so heavily, anyone picking her would bear some of the responsibility for early suicides on hook/DCs because they know that is a very common result. They queued up knowing they would 'ruin' 2 or 3 on average Survivor's experience (in a 4 Surv match), and if one of those 2 or 3 DC as a result, increasing the 'ruined' experience to 4 or 5 players in the match total, the Nurse player shoulders some (not all) of the blame there. Part of the blame also lies on BHVR for allowing those Killers and actions to exist in that state. When Nurses don't shoulder any part of that blame, is when they truly lack the cognitive awareness that people dislike Nurse to that extreme, and their skills match that cognitive awareness, in only allowing them kills through facecamping, or Survivors greeding for 4-man escapes.
I don't get to pretend my actions don't have consequences, especially when someone else does something in direct response to my actions or inactions. If I don't feed my pet fish, I can't pretend that if they try to eat each other it isn't my fault. If I play like a scumbag as Killer, I should expect t-bags when the Survs can get away with it. If I play like a scumbag as Surv, I should expect to be facecamped and/or hit on hook. If I queue up with my 'story-mode' difficulty build, I shouldn't be surprised when I get so many easy 'wins', even if that rate was artificially inflated by some people DCing to avoid such debauchery.
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I did read your post. Your point is invalid though. I like playing against Nurse and do do a lot of other people. I find Ghostface extremely annoying. I don't DC against Ghostface because other people might like playing against Ghostface, I'm not the only person in the match and if I'm going to play in a team role I should put forward my best effort. The game then ends and I move on to a match I like more.
If you DC against Nurse or any Killer just because you don't like that Killer you are being a bad player in a team based role. The fault is on the DCer only and not anyone else.
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I am sure many people enjoy Nurse, but when the majority does not, clearly there is a problem. That is where the '2 or 3 Surv's game being ruined' claim comes from. It is like if you play a 2v2 on a team slayer map on Halo and most people agreed to not use the rocket when playing 2v2s. It would partially be the company's fault for not altering the map from the 4v4 default version for the 2v2 playlist, partially the individual's fault for using the rockets, and partially the community's fault for not boycotting the game until the rockets were removed from 2v2s on that map, reduced in ammo, slowed respawn rate, or otherwise changed. Most people still enjoy the 2v2s (or the rest of the game), and a slim percentage like using rockets on 2v2s, and it is that difference in opinion where the clash is for Nurse in this analogy.
I do find it strange that you would dislike going against a Killer where the most individual skill is put on display on the Survivor's end though. If you are a 'god'-looper he is not a problem. Also barring the rift skin's bugged pay-to-win silence, he has plenty of visual and auditory tells for his appearance/arrival, giving Survivors plenty of opportunity for counterplay. Also unlike Myers/Plague/Oni/etc. you cannot be penalized by the Killer's Power for your teammate's failings, as Ghostie has the individual stalk bars on each Surv. He also is only limited to basic M1 potential, barring on demand red-light removal and crouching for medium height loops. The core kit is still based around 4.6 ultimately though.
Overall the DC problem is what I view as a symptom of not having a ban system as described in my other post. A ban system could prevent Survs and Killers from feeling hopeless and not wanting to play from the onset, and still allow the majority of the game to be accessible when only a comparatively small thing ruins an individual's experience enough to drive them to DC.
Also I don't know if I clarified in this thread, but I don't hard DC. I might become demoralized and sit on gens when I see my teammate crouch into the basement for the 5th time in a single match, but I still try to progress the match. I just understand why people would DC (see above basement croucher for one example among many*), and see the penalty against the DC being symptomatic treatment, instead of treating the disease so to speak. It is a poor band-aid fix that has long overstayed its welcome, and the source cause needs to be properly addressed.
*[EDIT: I DO NOT ENDORSE DCs, I am simply saying I can understand how someone else could reach that incorrect result. Sadly I believe I have to clarify because I was falsely warned in the past for 'endorsing' something I wasn't endorsing.]
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You don't have a source or statistic to say 'most' people don't like going against Nurse other than your own personal opinion. Your 2v2 analogy also isn't applicable as there is no previous agreement to not use Nurse. There is an implied agreement when you play the game that the game will be played as intended and Nurse is part of the game as intended. The only person who is breaking the agreement and ruining a game is the DCer.
As for Ghostface, I would say Nurse is the best test of individual skill especially at mind gaming. Ghostface needs buffs still and isn't that good but I still find Ghostface annoying due to the janky reveal mechanics and whether I escape depends on if everyone looks for him while working on gens. Still, a Ghostface that's a better Killer than the Survivor overall skill level will usually win and a worse one will usually lose (after RNG). I can cheese Ghostface though with the individual map such as the Game or Fractured Cowshed vs Shelter Woods. It's far more difficult to cheese Nurse with the map. However, my personal dislike for Ghostface does not mean that Ghostface is unbeatable, if anything Ghostface is weak, just as your dislike for Nurse does not mean Nurse is unbeatable or broken. Ghostface still needs buffs and Nurse doesn't need anything but not liking a Killer is not a reason to DC.
If somebody doesn't like a Killer they should express it but not through condoning DCs or DCing themselves. DCers are at fault for ruining games and nobody else. If it's not hackers, hostage taking or a real life issue there is no reason that is not entirely selfish to DC.
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People can bring in strong things, I don't say survivors don't want a real match if they bring 4 meta perks each 4 medkits, and a map offering, it seems to only be a killer specific thing that survivors don't want to try if the killer is good and is playing something that can put practice into that has decent translation into results
There are no easy wins just easier wins the killer still has to play the game but if they tools they have are harder to used and they trained to use them how is that their fault on top of perks being improvements rather than choosing to bring perks that do nothing
killer ban systems are just a no, we have already seen what it does when you have a block system against specific players nurse mains didn't get matches (iirc this is mandytalks story about someone they knew / friend) and all that would happen is people pick the 5 strongest things because they have a better chance at winning then (sounds coincidental?) but without any of the skill involved
Map system is meh giving killers outs on what maps they don't want to go to is just an overall killer buff which I don't think they need at the moment unless the devs make more changes towards camping / tunneling / slugging as a counterbalance
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I think people are just burned out and they found DCing as a venting/protesting tool. Like when you have an election and a chunk of the population vote for a clown candidate or a political circus just to show mainstream parties they are fed up of their antics.
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You lack any source or statistic for Nurse being enjoyable either, so we are both only speaking to our understanding of the game and humanity. This video from Choy is the closest I can come to providing evidence for my argument. As far as no previous agreement that is your willingness to ignore the 'honor among thieves' concept of 'even I won't go that far unless I got a tome/daily'. Nearly everyone is kind in endgame chat to me when I say I played Nurse due to either of those things. Although I also purposely ignore people off hook for the rescuer and beeline past them due to the sheer simplicity in using Nurse without a controller if someone has 5+games on her. I can also run mostly BP perks (Distressing, Beast of Prey and/or Thrill of the Hunt, Lethal and/or BBQ) and still get 12 hooks purposely only going after rescuers/people not hooked recently.
A Ghostie chasing is a bad Ghostie in general. They might be a good Killer in general, but preventing the chase is Ghostie's strong suit. If you let them reach the pallet on the Game you misplayed your approach. The tactic for Ghostie is to 99 the stalk around the corner until they run off, and take a 50/50 of waiting for them to go back on the gen or to go for someone else. Going for someone else is the better play against good Survs, waiting is better against bad (in general).
Also the hatred towards Nurse is quite evident on nearly every community (these forums, reddit, etc.) so they are speaking and yelling their displeasure only to fall on deaf ears. The unheard lash out when ignored. That is why I understand what would drive someone to the events of the video linked. Again not condoning or endorsing, just having enough basic human empathy to understand.
People can bring strong things, but that is only relative to what their opposition brought. If the Surv brought Stakeout against a Stealth Killer, they lose a large percentage of the value, same with healing against Plague, and the will to ever play the game again against Starstruck Nurse.
If you legitimately think there are no easy wins then I would have to assume you have less than 100 hours, because I have had my fair share of no effort wins, dang near impossible matches, and everything in-between.
Killer bans I think would be fine at a 20% ratio. No one has to play the most busted/annoying Killer every match back to back. Typically people against that type of ban are one tricks for whatever flavor of the month is most overpowered at the moment in that particular game. I have fun playing Trapper, Wraith, Nurse, Myers, Huntress, Bubba, Pig, Clown, Spirit, Legion, Ghostie(my current fave), Demo, Deathslinger, Blight, Nemmy, Onion Ring, Dredge, and Weskie. (Billy only isn't on that list due to the defunding of the space program, so I am boycotting using him until his rocketship is returned.) There is a massive variety of Killer experiences, and just because 5 Killers (not players) might be banned by one player, doesn't make every other Killer unplayable. It would only impact matchmaking times, and that would be a net positive for people who actually want to play the game with variety.
The map bans is more to give Killers something with the Killer ban, and also a bad band-aid for fixing maps. Both ban systems are meant to also serve as a form of feedback for the devs, that if something is banned at a disproportionately high rate, it probably needs to be altered in some manner. I would also have a variety ban that doesn't count toward these numbers, and only bans the most recent Killer/map (up to the 5 bans for the 5 most recent if you wanted the variety ban for all 5 slots).
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The only part that's accurate is that there are no sources or statistics and speaking to forum hate as a gauge is a very poor indicator of anything. Everything is complained about on a forum and there are no factual indicators Nurse is an issue. I like Nurse, other people have said they like Nurse and people are multiple times more likely to say something negative than positive.
People that are being empathetic don't DC on their teammates. If they dislike Nurse that much they can play Killer or a single player game as they're not well suited to play in a team role. Their temperament makes them bad players for a team role. They don’t like facing Nurse, whatever. Their teammates don't like going into a 3v1 when it should be a 4v1. The difference is that nobody made an agreement with the DCer they wouldn't play part of the game but there was an implied agreement among the survivors they would try to win the game.
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"No factual indicators Nurse is an issue"
Red emphasis mine. If you think they are referring to someone else I would love to hear how I am misunderstanding that it actually made Bubba too powerful in combination with Starstruck.
Also I don't like populist arguments (if that is the correct term), but when I am having someone who doesn't seem to understand what everyone else takes the understanding of for granted, I guess I have to show that everyone else knows it is a problem. Or at the very least there is some issue that needs changing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfi1U4lP8s - OhTofu's The Nurse Problem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QIW6juxPwQ - SupaAlf's This is the Real Problem with Nurse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0KzlOCFGmk - not Otzdarva's The ACTUAL reason Nurse is OP...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLZK17GU7_A - Choy's Is Nurse's strength ruining Dead by Daylight?
As to the second part, one thing partially at fault is the branding of the game only half commits to the idea of Survivors being a team. If I recall correctly some of the original branding was something to the effect of "Survive together, or don't". Heck, the very existence of Yun-Jin encourages a certain level of screwing over your 'team-mates' for your own benefit (thank you the perk Self-Preservation, you take the hit so I can hide). While I agree that the game should be based on proper teamwork, even the game can't commit to that same standard. Also a common community sentiment of a DC against a Nurse is a joking 'wow gigachad' or 'they had the stones to do something I couldn't'. Most Survivors I run across don't blame their prospective teammate for a DC on the first screech, but they do blame them for sticking around for a bit then quitting mid way through.
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Most survivors I see who DC will do so no matter the killer. So long as they’re losing and unable to keep play exactly the way the envision in their head, DC.
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Ahhh yes the "Streamers says it so it's law" counter argument.....each of those streamers also have shown how to stomp on Nurse as well and have stomped on Nurse players. You have to remember the average Nurse is no where near as skilled as a Nurse in the hands of a person who plays the game AS THIER JOB.
Most Nurse players I deal with are average at best. I can loop most Nurses I come across and escape a chase from them but can't win because of very entitled baby teammates who DC as soon as they hear her scream. I can't win by myself and I definitely don't blame the Nurse....I blame the losers, yes I can call my teammates losers because they would rather DC and sabotage the team rather than play it out and try to improve their skills against her.
Every argument I see starts out with She ignores the basic mechanics of the game. Every time I see that I see them say "I can't pre drop pallets it Hold W against her so I won't try and learn how to beat her"
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95% of these replies involve straw men.
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You still haven't proven anything. Awakened Awareness was changed because the synergy with Nurse and Blight combined with Starstruck would have been too strong in survivors that stuck around in the TR instead of doing the sensible thing and getting away until Exposed run out. Thus, any potential issues never happened. If it didn't happen, it didn't become an issue.
All you're trying to argue is populist arguments with no factual basis. Why can't I point to the survivors then with the huge escape streaks of 100+ escapes and say survivor is too strong? It's not but it's the same tyoe of argument you're making instead of questioning why are there Killers with huge win streaks and SWFs with huge win streaks and could this possibly just mean the best players win a lot?
The stats as shown do not show an issue with Nurse for at least 95% of MMR and BHVR should not do balance changes for a tiny fraction of a playerbase when a larger amount of players would be negatively affected. BHVR, who would know the best if there is an issue, does not feel changing Nurse is a priority which implies they don't see an issue.
And, yes, I do blame the DCers and the ones who DC as soon as they hear a screech are the worst of the lot. Instead of a game that could have been winnable or at least give a safety pip or single pip they have now just shifted the odds solely to the Killer with their selfishness.
Pipping up to Iri One as solo queue survivor is annoying and harder to do than Killer. It's even worse if the DCers are the cause of a depip.
The Nurse player is not at fault for ruining a game because of a DCer. BHVR is not at fault. The DCer is at fault and is the problem. If they want to DC because they don't like a specific Killer they shouldn't be playing games where people rely on them. They are bad players in team based roles. Most of the Survivors I've talked to think DCers are selfish and immature. That doesn't prove anything and neither does your statement. What does prove something is that the DCer has an implied agreement to play the game as presented and they ruined the game for four other people by not following through not due to an understandable reason such as a RL issue but because they didn't feel like it. As this would be done with a disregard for the other players that definitely meets the definition of selfish.
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Why do DC players face the nurse?
First of all, we should say: why SOME DC players facing the nurse.
And I feel like saying the answer is: they don't want to play against a killer who forces them to deploy gameplay other than "Hup, window, hup, I go around, hup, window again, hup, I go around again, hup, window again, hup, I go around again, hup, pallet ... my god, I'm so strong, the killer didn't catch me, I'm a living god."
Spoiler alert: a nurse is not handled like a Caleb on Lery.
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"I think a character should be destroyed to meet my selfish appreciation."
Nice.
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You mean like when Freddy was released and everyone disconnected against him? While he was THE weakest killer?
Yeah totally makes sense...
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to calculate wich side dcs the more u would have to make it proportionally because with the 4/1 ratio is almost impossible to get the killer to disconect the exact same or more than survs but killers disconect a lot aswell.
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OK, but you're selfish if you play her too, so....
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Doesnt matter how good or balanced a game is. There will always be people who ragequit when the game isn't going their way because they have the impulse control of a 2 year old. Nothing to do with the game itself.
DC penalties are really the only way to prevent it. It's an issue with the players not the game.
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It’s still pretty selfish when survivors DC though, and you can’t ever stop them from doing it. They’ll even DC when they hear a Nurse blink which is pathetic.
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In the last few days I have been playing for more than 5 hours a day and players left the match for going down first or being on the hook first, and the games were against normal M1 Killers. Players leave for any reason and for that I'm afraid it's better to remove this option or think of a completely different solution.
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People insta-DC against Nurse and Blight for the same reason they insta-DC against EVERY other killer- they are selfish, entitled, crybabies. Stop justifying DCs, you're making the problem worse by doing that.
Survivors constantly DC for other reasons too. Someone cleansed against Plague? Devour Hope? Got downed first? Failed a pallet save? Someone got downed trying to help them wiggle out? Because they thought it would look funny to DC? They got slugged? They want to prevent a Myers achievement?
BHVR needs to implement a system that keeps track of how often survivors DC, so that they are more likely to queue with other survivors and killers that DC often. MMR + DCR.
DCs within a SWF should effect ALL of the SWF's DCR. Then SWF's will think twice about playing with someone they know might DC, further punishing players who DC. This will also help prevent DC's due to slugging or hatch.
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Well yeah theres 1 killer for 4 survivors, thats to be expected. Still a pretty big ratio considering if it was "equal" it would be more like 50 killers that DC per 200 survivors, and I do agree survivors DC way more but I feel like being annoying and pedantic today :P
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False. Nurse is part of the game as intended. If you were in a custom match and somebody agreed they would not play a specific Killer and then switched to that specific Killer then that would be selfish. Playing Nurse is no more selfish than bringing BNP, a med kit, or a perk that the Killer you're about to face dislikes. As in not at all. When you hit ready you agree to play the game as intended and Nurse is part of the game as intended. It's supremely entitled to say that a random person can't play how they want because you don't like it. It's literally part of the game as intended.
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Nurse - part of the game
Rage quitting - not so much, rather just selfish behaviour that needs to be penalized
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you brought up something outside of the argument (hours) to try and invalidate an opinion over the semantics of a word im out but I still don't agree
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Joke - something not serious.
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People DC literally because they can.
I run flans.
I don't camp or tunnel.
I mostly play stuff like Mirror Myers, Demogorgon, Artist, Dredge, Hag and Ghostface right now.
I see at least 1 DC/AFK/Suicide every 2 games.
The cause is that there is no real penalty for doing this, so people do it.
I see plenty of DCs when I play Pig. It's seldom 'I don't like this killer' and more 'we don't have a massive lead and this won't be an easy game, so I'm going to keep ending matches until I get one that I can faceroll'.
Absolute rubbish.
I see a killer DC/AFK maybe once in every 30 games, often because someone is cheating.
I see a survivor DC/suicide/AFK in 50 sodding percent of my matches.
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No they do not. Survivors are the ones that DC the most, as they seem to have the most issues with how a game is going. I had all 4 DC after they got downed by mad grit and not allowing a hook to just occur. The entitle ment gets old after a while
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Players will Insta DC because they can.
I Main nemesis and I always get a DC after I hook someone.
It’s because they can do it so they do it, they don’t need a reason to do to do it cause they do it cause they can. The second the match ain’t going their way they just DC.
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If there was a way we could choose to not play against certain killers that would help but the problem is Nurses and Blights would probably never get games.
I know for me personally there is nothing worse than loading in and hearing Twins or Pinhead etc but I don't really get a choice of what match I am throw into. The choice is queue up for matches you may not want to play or simply don't play at all. Of course there are also people who will just DC no matter what and that just adds to the problem of how to make it so people don't want to DC
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The written word is easy misunderstood and we are on a forum where such statement might be meant as serious.
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I'm telling you, it's not Nurse and Blight.
I see just as many DCs/AFKs/suicides when I play Ghostface or Nemesis.
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What? "I want to play the killer I like so I'm selfish"?
This makes no sense. The Nurse players are not forcing Survivors to DC & spoil the game for their teammates...
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I should know. When survivors DC against me, I shrug it off. But when killers DC against me, I instinctively laugh, and I only laugh like that every once in a while.
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No. They already pamper survivors when they DC against a decently strong killer thing. It's precisely what happened to Spirit. "Don't like this killah! Rage quit!"
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Yeah. How dare you selfishly want to have fun in a game you bought and paid for? For shame! You should be the killer's punching bag and just shut up so they can have fun burning you with that magnifying glass!
The OP is spot on. There is a reason that the incentive bonus is nearly always +100% survivor and it's because people don't want to put up with the crap. This attitude of "shut up and be my cannon fodder" is just going to drive people out of the game.
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Then... just play killer?
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You.. realize that is exactly the problem, right? That's why the incentive bonus is on survivor almost permanently. Keep that attitude up and enjoy the eventual hour+ queues.
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How dare survivors log in and expect their teammates to try so they don't depip and are actually able to play? They should realize their fun is completely subordinate to the DCer!
Fixed it for you
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Pips are pointless and have been for a while now. You signed up for the 'team' side of the game without a team. That means you are working with random people. I do not complain when I have a teammate DC on me. I understand. Really, it sounds like you're being just as selfish. They say "I'm not having fun" and leave, and your argument is "what about me?!" It's just as selfish and transparent.
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