did the dead hard nerf really do anything to its pickrate?
As killer I'm still seeing multiple dead hards every match. as survivor it's still apart of my regular kit and i see other people regularly running it too.
they're pretty reasonable on windows by just waiting it out, but around pallets they're pretty bonkers cause a version of pallet vacuums still exists.
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As killer i just use save the best for last to not respect dead hard at all. Since endurance is pretty common now on survivors, the best strategy is to hit them no matter what they have to gain a stack. Not only that, many survivors tend to bodyblock the killer after they get unhooked. With save the best for last I still hit them to get a stack, i suggest you to use it in case you have trouble.
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reduced the audio level reductions to 25/50/75 %. Nerf: added the condition that Iron Will is disabled while one is Exhausted (while not causing it).
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The Dead Hard nerf has genuinely been one of the most well-designed changes that BHVR has ever done. The perk is still good after it's changes but it's actually fair and takes skill to use.
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Dead hard is fine now.
Also what do you mean by pallet vacuum and what does it have to do with dead hard?
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its not a completely uncounterable free +20 seconds onto every chase no matter what anymore
now its only like that sometimes
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Not sure what it has to do with DH but you can run past the pallet and then vacuum back by dropping it at the last second, making it look like you were running through it, but snapping back and remaining safe.
It's basically a super super super watered down version of the old vacuum vaults that I got to witness for like, a month lmao
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???
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Now it takes skill (or scripts, unfortunately), and mending adds a bit of difficulty for the survivor in the rest of the chase (visual impairment + can't wait in a single place to assess where the killer is coming from or hide under their nose), leading to more impulsive movement I would guess.
It's still a really good perk if you know how to use it (I personally never used either version, since I prefer Lithe + Dance), but still fragile as a little lag counters it.
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Oh that lol. I think that’s not really an issue though. It’s a fun mind game imo.
I mean, remember what blight can do by looking at the floor for example
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Considering how the 6.1.0 patch aimed to shake up the meta, i´d say it failed and hard. SC and DH still the 2 most used survivor perks. For how many years in a row?
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It did- it made the perk just "good" instead of overpowered, it made the perk take skill and timing to use instead of being a free chase extension, and it dropped the pickrate of the perk by a significant amount.
Dead Hard is still the most picked Exhaustion perk iirc because it is still genuinely good, but it's nowhere near its old pickrate nor its old strength.
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SC is such a waste of a perk slot, why do survivors still run that??
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Long story short, yeah it made a huge difference and helped to finally shake the incredibly stale survivor meta
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Maybe because it doesn´t require finding a totem or teammate. The people that still use it might take the time to find someone else into account.
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I don’t even think they can change self care in a way where it won’t be the most popular perk
Inner healing is literally free to all players yet people still use SC over it
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It was a huge change in terms of fun factor. DH feels way more fair and skillful to use and get hit by. Plus it comes at the cost of mending and giving the killer stacks of STBFL
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Failed hard?
Before the patch, you would regularly have lobbies with DH, DS, UB, IW and BT taking 14 of the 16 possible perk slot.
Now, IW is pretty much non existant, BT is rare, DS/UB are used sometimes, and only DH managed to stay on top.
I see way more varied perk builds now compared to before.
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I mean to be fair, right now a lot of killers are running Pentimento, so that's a pretty big thorn in Inner Healing's side.
I'm not by any means saying SC is better, but in this meta Inner Healing might disadvantage the team more than running other healing perks like CoH or SC.
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In my personal experience Dead Hard usage went down a lot. You get some people who have it but most survivors now use something different like Lithe, Sprint Burst or Balance Landing. Dead Hard came pretty much in line with those perks and this is fine.
However now Dead Hard take much more skill. You can not just Dead Hard for distance or something like that you have to bait and play a game with the Killer. It is now interactive and I enjoy facing it and using it.
This. I have no problem with skillful Dead Hard usage. Most times I can blame myself for swinging at a window or at a survivor that turned 180 and ran into my direction. They tricked me and this is a good thing: Interactive gameplay.
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I think we have different lobbies. I still see DS, UB and DH. Usually between 2 or 3 of each.
That you don´t see BT when its basically basekit isn´t really a surprise, is it?
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Yeah i really wonder why no one uses Inner Stregth with OtR. You get the full heal and still have the OtR protection until you touch something.
Or CoH + Botany. For really fast heals. Sometimes i don´t understand this community.
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I honestly feel like some just don’t keep up with patch notes. Some people just play the game without giving a damn about the next update especially mid chapters since they have little content
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Sure it's bc of BT being basekit. And Iron Will being considered trash now. Still, even when we consider DS, UB and DH all being present 3 times, it's still better than before.
Also, although I might occassionally get a lobby with all the previous meta perks as well, there will be multiple games with varied perks in between. Certainly no full-stacked survivor lobbies game after game after game. At least for me, but maybe I just got worse in the game and do not get such sweaty teams anymore, who knows ...
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At least that would explain why BBQ is still so popular.
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To be fair, right now i think that everyone has roughly the same mmr rating. All the people that suicided after 6.1.0 dragged the rating of their teammates down while also pushing the rating of killers.
Sometimes i´m lucky, sometimes i´m really unlucky in regard of the teammates.
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Yes, while Dead Hard is still one of the top two most used perks it’s usage rate is about half what it was on Nightlight for instance. Here’s a snapshot of its usage over time, you can see the dramatic difference at the 6.1 patch point. Even after recovering some of its loss its still much lower than it was.
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Its pick rate has surely diminished because it now takes actual skill and luck cuz that 0,5 or whatever duration it has is prerty inconsistent considering servers /ping,. Personally I've said my tearful goodbyes with dead hard and made friends with sprint burst, surprisingly good and if you manage to effectively have it 99ed is stronger even than pre nerf Dh,
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Who cares? It's a balanced perk now, other than auto scripting, if you pull it off, you deserve it
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Well if someone uses self care now, they're just an idiot
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DH is used significantly less than before. No question about that. It's still very popular, but much less than before.
Also, while it is still a very good perk in the right hands, it is much more fair than before (obviously, auto-DH is not fair -- but that's literally cheating, so...). In many of my matches, 1 or 2 survivors bring Dead Hard, but they might only get 1 or 2 uses out of it because I can often bait it out/wait it out once I know they have it. That's a far cry from the situation with old Dead Hard.
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The pick rate plummeted once it was reworked. Then ppl switched to sprint burst, lithe etc. But now, ppl are getting used to learning to use dead hard. Now the pick rate has increased it to be back to the number 1 used exhaustion perk. Although still not at a high pickrate % as it was b4 rework.
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For survivors that can dead hard on reaction, new dead hard is a big buff. For survivors that can’t dead hard on reaction, new dead hard is a nerf.
And the “dead hard takes skill” argument is a double standard. If anyone wanted to argue that Blight and Nurse are fine because they skill, we would be told that “something taking skill isn’t a good enough reason”, but here we are, with a bunch of people telling us that dead hard is fine because it takes skill.
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The skill argument is comparative, as its old iteration did not need it: Its not so much that alone validating it, but more that it added it to the equation where it wasn't really necessary before. In fact I honestly feel like it changed it more from reactions to reads, as in committing to a guess so hard you're forcing the opponent to commit to a guess just as quickly. A "think fast" moment, if you will.
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Ok if yes then what is the pickrate now? Because I also feel more or less everyone use, just like before. I use it all the time.
I agree the changes was really good.
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Fortunately, that was already posted in this very topic:
It is certainly still used a lot, and that particular data doesn't break down the rest of the variables like MMR of usage, but it was very high before. So it can still be both a fair bit less less and somewhat prevalent simultaneously.
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Something containing more skill than before also doesn't count as a validation.
And the skill level of the perk didn't rise, BHVR just removed some of the easier uses of it, and some of the removed uses weren't very useful against certain killers anyway. I can't even remember the last time someone tried to dead hard for distance against my Nurse, and dead hard for distance isn't needed against Blight when you could just dead hard toward him while he's rushing. And certain killers like Pyramid Head and Huntress have powers with a very loud audio cue, that survivors can easily dead hard on reaction to.
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But people are still bringing it every single match, on every team, like they were before, so we've still got a problem.
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Nope. Everyone still runs it. Is it shocking that matches where 3-4 people have brought Dead Hard are like 10 times harder than normal ones?
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And the skill level of the perk didn't rise, BHVR just removed some of the easier uses of itthats.... literally how skill floor adjustments work, though. so yes, the minimum skill was increased. You're also kinda looking for very specific case uses to compare it to instead of on its own merit.
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But everyone isn't still running it. We've seen the dev's stats, Dead Hard's overall usage went down by about half. This is also corroborated by that one stat-tracking site, as mentioned earlier in this thread.
Any one player's experience is anecdotal so mine is about as meaningless as yours, but for the record, I've absolutely seen fewer people bring it in my matches. Much more Lithe and Sprint Burst than before, and about the same amount of Balanced Landing or Head On.
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Aren't you lucky? Survivors who know what they're doing though are bringing the best exhaustion perk, as before. And as before, it's still Dead Hard. No distance, but still free mindgames, option selects which are new, sprint burst from getting hit, and a mere 40s of exhaustion. I don't see the downgrade. Good luck beating 4 of them.
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Raising the skill floor of something isn't a justification for buffing its reward either. The new dead hard just encourages me to hit people immediately off the hook, to trigger deep wounds, so I don't have to deal with dead hard.
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The pick rate is like half (slightly less) of what it was before, this data isn't hidden.
That speaks mostly to the outrageous rate at which if was run prior to the nerf.
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Oh I never said it was, just that its what happened. I was only ever talking about it taking more skill than it used to, which is why im a bit confused. Might have accidentally conflated arguments as thats the only point I was addressing. I think its in a good spot now and I agree that it gives more of a reward than it used to, but only when used correctly and more skillfully than just tapping a button to fix a mistake risk free outside of the killer's reach.
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I think the problem is I don't consider a 0.5 second active window to be a skillful parry, considering how many video games I've played where the parrying or dodging restrictions were far stricter than that. Dead hard is basically a mini game for some people, where they get to whack a button when they hear certain audio cues.
The other problem is the perk is now a neutral risk, because survivors can just cancel it whenever. It would have been better if the perk kept the 0.5 seconds of animation lock after the endurance frames end, so the perk would have an actual risk to it. Dead hard is a neutral risk high reward perk, when it really should be a high risk high reward perk.
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I have no problem beating four DH's.
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Again, my experience is only anecdotal, I bring it up to highlight that it is anecdotal. You're seeing four of them every game, I'm seeing much fewer than before. Neither of us have the full picture, because we're just one player, that's why it's relevant that we know its pickrate and we know it's gone down.
As for it still being Dead Hard... is it? It no longer has its most overpowered feature, the free distance and chase reset, and it now puts you in Deep Wound if it successfully works. I won't argue against it still being strong, of course it is, but it's not at all the same perk as it was before. The downgrade is pretty glaringly obvious.
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The risk is that you are entirely vulnerable without having gained any distance, when the time you would be using it is to avoid a hit. Even with the best usage of the perk at pallets, there is still a window of time where you will trade at best. 0.5 seconds is 30 frames which yes, is certainly higher than something like 1f links in situations like many fighting games, but it is still in a pretty relative window to how it is in how many games of a similar perspective to DBD handle both parries and dodge rolls.
As the perspective requires you to be unable to see both behind you and in front simultaneously, it has a different playing field in terms of how to time it: Unfortunately without having the frame data for attacks/lunges in the game, we have to go solely off of human reaction time and consider everything "hard-to-react-to-able" in regards to normal attacks, which makes the realistic reaction window 0.25(15f) and the read window 0.5(30f). After establishing that, you have to go into the concepts of latency and hit validation to get an idea of the "forgiveness window" of said action and... it gets pretty small. Not exactly parrying in Third Strike small, but a considerably higher skill requirement than the vast majority of actions in the game. Remember this is a game where you can jump out the window of a second story building and get hit in midair because on the killer's screen you were still in the middle of your vault.
Aside from some things like flicks, reverse blinks, needle threading shots, etc this game has an extremely low skill requirement for the majority of its gameplay, and even a lot of those are only particularly skillful relative to the rest of the game. I understand what you're saying that its not exactly the same as getting tatsu loops with sakura in street fighter 4 or anything like that, but it is a completely different level from the expectations of normal or even advanced gameplay in this very game.
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Problem with the new Deadhard is the amount of auto trigger hacks/scripts. It basically the perfect perk to disguise a very subtle hack with & it's almost impossible to tell wether you've been outplayed or not.
Old Deadhard was pretty easy to bait out, but new Deadhard I'm seeing a lot more players that don't fall for the old bait tactics and land it perfectly multiple times in a game.
Like what has changed to make players timing so much better since the update? The only logical reasoning is that more people are running automated scripts because it's very easy to hide.
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It's only a risk if a survivor is purposely placing themselves in a risky situation, that they could have avoided, and they are doing this specifically to attempt a dead hard play..... for example if they are purposely running up to a killer to attempt a bodyblock dead hard.
Most of the time people use the perk, they are pretty much doing exactly whatever they would have done without dead hard, and they are just pressing dead hard to try to avoid a hit. And they are still moving forward when the dead hard animation is happening, and they can cancel the dead hard whenever they want, which means that if they mistime dead hard they are pretty much in the exact same situation they would have been in if they hadn't pressed dead hard. That is not a risk. A risk means the survivor would be worse off if they mistimed dead hard, than if they didn't press dead hard.
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