Petition To Either Create Ranked And Casual, OR Balance The Game Around SWF
the following is taken from the DBD Steam community general discussion.
Made by player weirdkid5
From Mathieu Cote himself, the reason why this game was balanced around Uncertainty Factors. This is this fundamental reason SWF breaks the game, and the devs have failed to support this fundamental:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5jhyU6GjU
I wish to set forth a petition for the Devs to do as the title suggests. If you agree, please +1 below. Here is my argument:
What's Wrong
We need a change of pace in the game. Currently, the statistics show that a very large portion of players are always within at least a group with 1 other person. About 30% of the Playerbase are solo querers. From this game's inception, it was always balanced around the Survivors having 0 communication with each other. This is the reason perks like Bond, Empathy, Kindred, and the like exist. They exist to give you information that you otherwise do not have access to, such as teammate positions and, more importantly, the position of the Killer.
Using Voice Chat in Survive With Friends is Violation of Rule Number 5
What is Rule Number 5 you ask?
"5. Other hacks
Using 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us. Heavy proof and a video recording is mandatory."
Whenever a group is using Survive With Friends, or SWF, they are typically using some form of Voice Chat software. This allows them to gain access to what are, essentially, free perks. In my honest opinion of playing both sides, this is a form of Cheating and using 3rd Party Software, a clear violation of the Rule Number 5 in the list of Bannable Offenses in the News & announcements section of the Dead by Daylight forum. This gives players access to the benefits of Bond, Empathy, Kindred, and even Deja Vu, as they can be informed of the Killer's position from anywhere on the map. Part of the balance was that you were always unaware, left wondering what the Killer is out there doing. Will he patrol you soon? Is he chasing someone? Or is Myers stalking you? It's supposed to be a horror game.
Unfortunately, we have a bit of a dilemma here. There are some who do not use VOIP software when they play SWF. These groups may be punished for not being able to play with each other, despite not breaking any rules. Rule Number 5 also states that video evidence is required to ban people for using 3rd Party Software that is not whitelisted. This means things like Discord, Skype, even Steam Calling are all violation of Rule Number 5. However, in the General Discussions segment there is a rule towards the bottom that says this: "- Openly admitting to cheating in DbD." Anyone who claims to using VOIP, or even anyone who has played the game with them streaming with using VOIP is technically video evidence of 3rd Party Software. Now, am I asking for anyone who has used VOIP to be banned from the game?
Absolutely NOT. Many of us simply wish to play with our friends. This is why I propose ONE of TWO changes to be made to this wonderful game. A solution should be created instead of handing out punishments or allowing the game to fester with these problems.
The Solutions
1. Create a Ranked and a Casual Playlist
Now, I know what you're thinking. "But weirdkid5, that will split the playerbase!"
The playerbase is already divided as is. There's no reason to force people to do something they do not wish to deal with, or to have to make anyone dodge or have to deal with being dodged for several minutes. Ever since the inclusion of SWF, things have taken wild turns for the balance of this game.
I suggest that we have a Ranked mode that allows only solo queue players, or if we have to compromise, up to only TWO people in a pre-made group. There could be 2 teams of 2 SWF groups. The other mode would be a Casual Mode, where any number of players can group up and find a Killer.
Ranked could have Seasonal Rewards for players who attain Ranks from 15, to 10, to 5, and finally to 1. These rewards could range anywhere from Bloodpoints, to Teachable Perks, and even unique cosmetics that do not come around very often, and can only be attained through Rank 1, or something similar.
However, there would need to be certain incentive to make the Killer's wish to play Casual Mode. Since no Rank is involved, simply providing a bonus to Bloodpoints for larger and larger groups of SWF would suffice here. It's all in fun, people can do as they wish to the Killer and he is rewarded for being a punching bag, and people get to practice their skills for Ranked Mode if they wish to be serious.
I will use Deceit as an example of a game that had SWF problems and made changes to FIX the problem rather than let it fester. Ever since the game went Free to Play the playerbase skyrocketed, but even when only a couple hundred people played it they made a Ranked and Casual Mode.
This was because groups of pre-mades made the game miserable for other players. If you were the Infected and you weren't a part of the group chat, gg game over before it even starts. To rectify this they made Ranked where you could only go in with one other person.
In light of a user's comment, Team Ranked Mode would also be good with Balance Changes. Here is is comment. Thanks for the input!
III původně napsal:
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but if 4 people want for me hardcore mode i want hardcore mode for team too!
1 perk per TEAM (so only DS per 4 people etc)
no items, no addons, no offerings and GL!
If this solution is not good enough, then...
- Balance the Game Towards Increasingly Larger Groups of SWF
Bloodpoint incentives are simply not enough if this will be the solution.
Instead, give the Killer some form of increased Power for the more SWF that he has to deal with. What this increased Power is, I cannot say. I do not wish to suggest anything because I am not a game designer, but something like extra Perks could suffice. For every person that is SWF starting at 2, allow the Killer one extra Perk. This could mean he could have 3 extra Perks to play with to even the odds.
Another suggestion is to allow the Killer to have an easier time getting pips against SWF groups. For instance, if there is a full team of SWF, all you need is one kill and two hooks to get a pip. Getting 4 Kills could net you a whole 3 pips.
The last example would be adding perks for the Killer that affect only SWF players, and would not affect Solo players. This way, solo players are not punished for being paired with SWF, and the perks allow the Killer to easily adapt to a suspected SWF group. The user TWiXT is to thank for this, good suggestion buddy!
"I'm for Rebalancing the game around SWF instead of Solo Queue. In other 4v1 games the 1 was always heavily Overpowered in order to compensate. Here that is still mostly the case, but only if against Solo players. My suggestion of how to balance it is to add 2 "SWF Perk" Slots for the killer and to create at Least 1 Teachable "SWF perk" for each killer. These "SWF Perks" are heavily Overpowered perks desinged specifically for combating SWF groups. You can Fill these slots premptively, and for every 2 SWF players, one slot activates. What will make these unique is how they only affect the SWF players and not solo players. Examples:
Dead Weight - For each SWF member injured, in the dying state or killed, the other members have 15% decreased repair, sabotage and healing speeds.
No Escape - Gates take 25% longer to open for SWF players, and the Black Lock (hatch) doesn't open for them without a key.
Heavy Burden - For each SWF player within 24m of a SWF member when they are hooked, rescue takes 1 second longer, and the sacrifice progression rate is 15% faster.
Rusted Gears - SWF Members who fail skillchecks on repairs reduce the generators progression by 15% and if a brand new part was used they take 1 strike in damage and are mangled for 180 seconds.
Blinding Strike - SWF members put into the dying state have their vision go black until 1.5 seconds after being placed on a hook, being rescued or wiggling free from the killer.
Vigorous Assaut - For each SWF member still alive gain 2% movement speed, and 20% attack speed recovery when chasing them.
These are just a few off of the top of my head. The increased communication SWF has means that they are basically playing DbD on Easy difficulty for the majority of ranks, and around Normal difficulty at high ranks. For killers howerver, facing SWF is like playing the game on Expert Difficulty no matter the ranking, and to me, the only way killers will ever be able to face that difficulty on even enough footing is to be strong enough to combat it."
These are just some suggestions, if you have a better one of how the game could be balanced around SWF, comment below, or if the devs read this, I would hope that you could devise a balance change around SWF.
This way, if the Killer runs into a team of solo-queues, they will not be punished with increased Perks. However, the problem with my suggestion is that solo players that get paired with smaller SWF groups would need to suffer. This is why I say if you have a better proposition, lay it out below.
If Solution Number 2 is chosen, there should be an added indicator of which survivors are SWF. This could even be added in to the Casual Mode, and in my opinion should.
To Sum It All Up
This game is balanced around no communication. Currently, VOIP breaks all the balance in the game and can be considered Cheating under the devs own rules. Players who use VOIP should not be punished, instead a solution needs to be created so that it no longer violates Rule Number 5. And the solutions is NOT to simply whitelist VOIP programs. If they are whitelisted, Solution Number 2 MUST be implemented.
The following edit is in response to comment #284. Please see this person's reply before reading this edit.
EDIT 4: Honestly, it seems to me the majority of players wish to play Casually. From the looks of things, people just wanna have fun with their friends, and there are actually plenty of Killers that float around the mid Ranks because it makes the game more Casual for them. You should have no problem with wait times in Casual Mode because most of the people will be there, even Killers will be happy to play for ♥♥♥♥♥ n giggles and get BP. Hundreds if not thousands already do that in the mid Ranks.
Only a minority of players play Rank 1. For everyone that has given +1, we all want to play the game in it's natural form. Solo, no comms. Hard games with the best Killers. Why are you denying us minority to get away from what you all are enforcing on us? We want to play seriously, but you won't let us. We want a challenge, we want to play to win. If you want to play for fun, there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to play seriously, there's nothing wrong with that.
Let us who want to play serious have that, and the majority Casual can stay in Casual. We don't care if we face the same 1000 people over and over. You will have your 19k people playing Casually and you'll have fun, we'll have fun. we will all have fun. But I can guarantee more people would play Ranked. They would still do it and we wouldn't have terrible wait times. As a Ranked player, I'd be fine with waiting a few minutes for a balaced, good match. Let Casual games be fun and for BP, let us Ranked players enjoy serious play with special rewards, like large BP Jackpots, Teachable Perks, and even New Cosmetics only attained by Rank 1 players. Adjust Ranked Mode so that both sides have to do significant things other than just camp and pallet loop all day for ez wins.
We can do this, there's absolutely no reason this won't work.
Personally, I wish for this game to lose all the toxicity that plagues it. Everyone, let us all agree to make a change for the better of this Franchise's Future.
EDIT 1: Added Incentives for Ranked Play.
EDIT 2: Added a new suggestion for Solution Number 2 in regards to Pip Gainage.
EDIT 3: Cleaned up errors and added a new header.
EDIT 4: Added a response I had to a member in regards to making a Casual Mode and Ranked Mode. The comment number is #284.
Thank you Beckski93 for your argument and stance. This edit, my response, is what I believe to be the best option for this problem this community has. Thank you to everyone who has presented arguments from both sides. I feel we may make some progress if we keep everything civil and honest.
EDIT 5: Fixed "technically." Curse you, Boss! 😣
EDIT 6: Added a user comment for Team Ranked in the Ranked and Casual segment of the Solutions.
EDIT 7: Removed a portion that said MLGA is whitelisted. MLGA is no longer whitelisted, use at your own risk.
EDIT 8: Added a suggestion from the user TWiXT in regards to creating specific perks for the Killer that counter SWF. Pretty good job so far!
EDIT 9: Added an interview from Mathieu Cote at PAX West 2016 in regards to why the game is balanced the way it is.
Comments
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What you're suggesting (although I agree with the idea of having a ranked solo mode and a casual party game mode) would reduce the amount of 'fun' survivors would be able to have. And that cannot stand! The developers would never add something that'd inconvenience their precious survivor player-base.
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No compromise (SWF) in ranked. Other than that, I agree with the idea.
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maybe the game should be balanced around SWF and playing in solo should be like a hardcore mode. An integrated voice chat could be added, I think communication is fun as long as the killer is playing a powerful character, and balancing the game around SWF and competitiveness instead of "fun" (because the "fun" the devs are trying to balance the game around is subjective and will never produce a balanced game) would be a great idea. Also make ranking harder and remove the safety pip please1
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For sure a +1, however I do think the ideas need to be fleshed out a tad. Definitally in the right direction! Yet, I'm not one hundred percent sure on what other changes to make.
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Blinding strike would be kinda cool to have... I wish the devs would do this... it would be for the best of the community0
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Aaaaaahhh… the good old "biggest thread on steam ever".
Still epic… still true...0 -
Where are these statistics coming from that only 30% of the player base runs solo?
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@feechima said:
Where are these statistics coming from that only 30% of the player base runs solo?This is missinformation floating around since the Devs showed some stats on stream.
They said "70% of all lobbies contain some form of SWF".
Some people who want to use it for their narrative make that the false claim of "only 30% are playing solo", which is wrong.
Because in the very same stream the Devs showed that less than 50% (47,2% if I remember correctly)of all survivor player join the game via "survive with friends"; including those that join the game via "Survive with friends" alone.
Correct is only 30% of all games are 4 survivor playing solo.
But 52,8% of ALL survivor player are playing solo (even more; see above).1 -
This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)
then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank
If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.
Identity V a mobile game, got ranking rewards, dedicated servers on launch...
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how does sfw give you deja vu for free :think:
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Dude, from what I've seen so far: neither the devs nor the survivors care. The survivors just wanna keep their illusion of being good, and the devs just want to keep that going.
Just switch to survivor, because the devs have a very clear message to killers:
"######### you. We dont care about you. Youre just toys to survivors play with, stop thinking that you are actually important."1 -
I didn't read the whole whole thing, because of o b v i o u s reasons. But nerfing SWF would bring the same affect as nerfing camping. Survivors will stop SWF and most people will quit playing as making the game unfair, which is why they're trying to give solo survivors a better feel.
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all in all interesting thread. i also highly approve a reward system on ranked matches as well a casual matchmode. however even though the SWF problem about the third system issue seems legit on a game based on 'no communication' balance but that itself is flawed as teamplay and teamspeak nowadays are inseparable. so rather nerfing SWFs or buffing killers facing SWFs, there should be a ingame communication system added like in most MOBAs like such shoutouts: "i'm going for resque", "it's dangerous", "spotted by killer" and such to give solo players a headsup. and with that overall buffs to killers like additional perk slots or longer repair time no longer inbalance solo players.
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I 100% support this entire idea. I do SWF occasionally, do we have Voice coms? Yeah, but most the time its like “Damn, did you see that Myers? Mmmmmm i want that.”
”Oh hell no, Leatherdaddy is the best!”
so only “punishing” thode who abuse the system would be good, as such in the Ranked mode only.0 -
Didn't know there were 2 of these. Signed here, too.
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