Hook grabbing
why is hook grabbing still a thing people have been saying for years it should be removed the only time you see the feature is when killers are camping it’s ping related an just annoying what’s everyone stance on hook grabbing
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Hook grabs should be removed from healthy survivors at the bare minimum there's no reason whatsoever to have to play chicken with a killer to get the save.
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Killers would be fine with just getting a hit if that didn't also result in everyone getting out, despite the hook being like full-map away. Because as of right now, hitting someone when people are hook bombing, in endgame, leads to everyone getting out unless they make a huge blunder. People conga line body block, even the unhooked person because base BT is totally just for their protection, and even if you get the down in the exit area, body block and heal tech time, same result.
If the killer hooked near a 99'd exit and didn't try to push anyone else out? Sure, the survivors deserve to escape. But otherwise, it's a free escape that really shouldn't be one. That's why grabs have stayed.
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Hook grabbing is fine and that's still the case if we include camping.
In fact I'd say rescuing should be more committed so killers can get grabs easier for those survivors who want to stand in front the hook. Sure, camping would be annoying in the situation, but it be like that sometimes.
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Hook grabs shouldn't work on healthy survivors, period
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I would say 90% of my hook grabs are from a survivor I see and start to chase and they decide to go for the unhook anyway. I also get people looping around the hook and someone dive bombs and I switch and get a grab.
Thats a free unhook with out the grab and basekit bt.
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That really sucks. But if im honest if all survivors are alive in endgame they deserve this advantage. It shouldnt be that easy to secure one kill.
Even if they dont deserve it bc the brought Eerye of crows, a styptic, a syringe and two bnps. But this things need to be changed, not the ability to rescue a teammate.
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If you don't have a kill before the EGC that is on you. If you have a kill before EGC, then hook another survivor, securing that next kill is super easy unless you hooked them right next to the gate.
If you expect a free kill in EGC, that's unreasonable.
Healthy hook grabs promote bad, skilless gameplay. It should be removed entirely, but I would be completely fine with keeping healthy hook grabs after the gens have been completed, but removing them before the gens are done.
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I'd be fine with hook grabbing staying if the unhook was successful despite the grab, that way it guarantees a trade but doesn't just instantly lose matches for the survivors 90% of the time it happens.
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Also, notice how no one has ever suggested that healthy grabs from gens should be removed? Because that is an actual skilled play that is deserving of reward.
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Same can be said as Survivors shouldn't expect a free rescue either. They dont promote it any more than anything else promotes camping. If the player wants to camp they will regardless if hook grabs stay or not.
Removing the grabs will however Promote more risky rescues in the Killers face and could promote Tunneling more....
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Let's complain about everything the killer can do.
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No one has ever expected a free rescue, nor is that being asked for.
Sure seems like a lot of killers think they should be gifted a free kill simply for hooking one survivor, though, with all the people defending healthy hook grabs.
The people defending healthy hook grabs staying in the game are just telling on themselves. "if healthy hook grabs go away how can I cheese a loss into a win with no skill involved?"
Play both sides.
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That's kinda what is being asked though. If a healthy survivor can't be grabbed, there's alot less risk for a healthy survivor to just immediately dive the hook. The killer is at best forced to trade.
As for the ones saying "if there's 4 survivors at the end it's on you", you realize your promoting tunneling yes?
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I love the metric "if all 4 survivor are still alive at EGC, that's on you" and on the other hand "how dare you to focus someone out before 8 hooks".
You can't have both.
And if it is okay to kill someone before the 8th, when? Where is the magical threshold after which it is allowed according to etiquette/sportsmanship to aim for a tilt in pressure aka 3vs1? 6hooks? 4 gens done?
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Keep it. People need to stop dive-bombing hooks or running to hooks while they are being chased
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All those survivor complaints/rules for killer playstyles sound stupid if applied to both sides. Imagine the reactions of survivors if you told them t wait with doing gens until the first hook.
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I shouldn't have to explain basic gameplay.
If the survivor is immediately diving the hook for a save, a good killer says thanks for the free pressure.
If the survivor wants to give a trade, a good killer says thanks for the free pressure.
Nope, I'm promoting boosted killer players relying on cheese and skilless techniques be dropped down to the mmr they deserve to be at. But that might upset the many killers on the forum who think they deserve to be a higher mmr than they are because they are so used to tunneling off the first hook.
Everyone thinks differently, of course. I only go for the 12 hook win. I am a really, really good killer player, so unless I am going up against a tourney swf 4-stack I know I am capable of winning every game. When I play killer I will not intentionally tunnel. Whoever is in my vision, I will go for.
When I play survivor I detest killers who tunnel the first hooked survivor to death. It happens in the majority of top mmr games on the Korean server, and it is so boring. It reduces the game to a 1v1 (the killer vs that first survivor). So when I play killer that's not how I play. It is unbalanced and unfun.
Of course, if the survivors are a full SWF, all bets are off.
I don't think that is too irrational. Just as playing nurse with her busted addons, or playing a full tourney squad swf in public matches, or tunneling the first hooked survivor out at 5 gens, there are things about this game that are ridiculously unbalanced and unfun for both sides. It shouldn't be too much to expect players to shy away from doing those things.
To tie it back to what you said, though, whether you tunnel off the first hook or play like I play, if you don’t have a kill before the EGC, it is because you didn't deserve one.
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Aha so you are a "really, really good killer" that doesn't get matched with survivor fitting your skill level and therefore can hold the 12 hook gameplay, cool.
Now let's imagine this game using a correct matchmaking, you waiting minutes for games, like it was in the beginning of MMR for skilled players and then getting matched against probably 4 men swf marching your skill and suddenly all bets are off because the 12 hook style is no longer valid
Survivor are non stop crying on here that they don't want to sweat and have to play in a 4 men swf, so killer don't want to be forced to either but we can't have that in the game state right now.
The 12 hooks aren't feasible for the average player and therefore either the killer didn't play "fair" for the 12 hook and has someone dead before EGC OR they will have all survivor alive at EGC and there was no way around it except no-living this "casual" game.
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It’s very risky to hook in front of the killers face though.
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12 hooks is more than feasible for the average player. The average player is low mmr. The lower you go in mmr, the stronger the killer role gets.
Then they will reach a point where they can't get 12 hooks, can't get kills anymore. And that‘s when they will realize that they have gone past their mmr, and it is time for them to go down a bit.
Or, as is so common on these forums, they will whine that killer is such a weak role, and claim that things like healthy hook grabs should stay in the game.
You might want to practice your own gameplay, though, if you are having so much trouble.
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Get a hook grab, locked animation where the killer rips the hooked survivor off and replaces them with the rescuer. Unhooked survivor gets about a 3 sec head start from the animation if the killer decides to charge after them. Punishes unsafe hook saves with a guaranteed trade, but softens the grab from ending up with two survivors on hook immediately.
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The two health state grab at hooks should go. Basically every killer gets a chainsaw hit where survivors are already at their most vulnerable.
I think it’s a crutch.
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I don't have trouble 😁 i don't even play anymore and am on here just for entertainment and the discussions.
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Buff Borrowed Time to remove grabbing
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Saves should never be free unless the killer is far away.
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Also happens when the killer is camping. It really isn't healthy and needs to go.
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There is a simple solution for that. Remove current passiive endurance. Give endurance to hooked survivor and rescuer once killer spends x amount of time within x meters from the hook, while there are no survivors within that distance. Disabled once generators are completed
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All my hook grabs have never been from camping but from either Survivors being stupid by either bringing the chase to the hooked Survivor and trying for a unhook or I don't even take 2 steps away from the hook and here comes a rescue. I got a 3 man slug because for some reason the other three survivors wanted to bum rush the hook right after the Hook animation finished.
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If I notice another survivor by the hook I'll try my best to get the killer to chase me away from the hook so my mate can do a hook save. I don't understand why people pull people off in front of the killer. When I see this done it usually gets the hooked survivor hit down again while the unhooked leaves unscathed unless said mate has BT.
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A lot of people here are saying that hook grabs are fair because most of the ones they get are from stupid plays or survivors they chase back to the hook, and yeah, that's fair - but I also think that that's more of a reflection on the playstyles of the people making such comments than it is a treatise on the state of the game.
So... what would you think if healthy hook grabs were disabled if you've been within x meters of the hooked survivor for more than 10 seconds?
My issue with hook grabbing is that it gives a failsafe to campers and ensures they always get at least a 1:1 trade. If someone's dumb enough to try and clip through you and unhook the instant you slap someone up there, then sure, that yoink is well-deserved.
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What's unreasonable is how y'all are talking about killer in general. Not everybody plays Nurse and Blight. It's easy to get at least a kill before endgame? I think not. What's Freddy gonna do? Or Pig or Clown or Sadako? These killers don't have anything. People can easily pre-drop pallets and have all the gens done before someone's out. It's on me in a way, because I picked a bad killer, but that needs to change, no? As soon as a survivor is on hook and there's at least 2 others alive, it's a free escape without instadowns. They just bait getting hit, the game never gives you the grab, and then everyone conga lines each other. Y'all can keep pretending that that's not what happens all you want. Go ahead and side with the guy who says, "You need 3 healthy people hook bombing to get someone out in endgame."
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I think all grabs should be removed. The thing I hate most when I play killer is going for a quick hit that turns into a grab and then gets cancelled. I accept that the grabs will never work properly -- just take them out and let me have a hit.
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Wait your angry for getting a accidental grab? I love those because then I don't have to chase them down
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No, the thing I hate is when it starts to do an accidental grab, but then the server decides that it shouldn't actually be a grab, so it stops the grab animation and the survivor just runs away unharmed.
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Just use team coordination and you can usually get them off safely without getting grabbed unless a Survivor messes up. If you can't coordinate, well tough cookies tbh. Either keep on your gen or go for the gate, if the killer is sacrificing valuable time to secure a kill that's on them. Not everything has to be 'fair'.
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Ahhh ok I was about to say
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So you want the saves to be basically free and make the game even more one dimensional and boring... Let's make so any divebombing ape can get the save for free, yes great idea! Grab game is fun on both sides imo, if u suck at it thats too bad
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Grab game is in no way, shape or form fun. It is an outdated mechanic used by players who love staying next to the hook every hook because they aren't as good as they think they are.
A hook trade is in no way "free".
As it is currently, any "camping ape" can get the grab for "free", so yeah it is high time to remove it.
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Absolutely awful mechanic that will hopefully one day finally be removed and end up only one more of those things where people look back and go "How the hell did that BS stay in the game for so long, how did people tolerate it?!"
An extra mechanic to reward hard camping is really the last thing the game needs.
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There are not that many situations where a hook grab could happen, so I don't mind removing it.
If hook grabs are not removed, I would like to see one change made.
When the killer hook grab animation is playing, the hooked survivor is considered part of the animation and cannot be unhooked while this animation is playing. Please remove this and exclude the hooked survivor from the animation and make it unhookable when the hook grab occurs.
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Following your logic would imply that killers just want free kills. You're not entitled to a kill just because it's endgame. If survivors get the rescue and escape, then you should've played better. If survivors fail to get the rescue and end up dying because of it, then they should've played better.
Either way, there's no such thing as a "free escape/kill", and hook grabs on healthy survivors should be removed from the game. It's not like killers are out here every game getting hook grabs enough for the removal to be a big deal.
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It's less about it being free and more about what you're trying to do, which is false equivalency. It's not hard for survivors to get that unhook, but it's very hard for the killer to prevent it. The killer hits 1, they run away, and the others block, boom they're out. You're saying the killer should play better, but you're referring to earlier in the game, not in the moment. There's no version of "playing well" from the killer's end when it comes to people hook bombing or doing what I've explained above, because all of their options are risky or literally lose-lose. The killer would have had to injure people beforehand and hoped that they couldn't heal up in time for a hook bomb, or pushed them out, but neither has anything to do with what the killer can do, in that moment, once the grab baiting situation arrives. I just wish it was more 50/50, because it definitely isn't.
You have to know what to do in those situations as survivor, so that takes some skill, but the killer can know exactly what they need to do, they do it, and it still results in everyone out. You can't walk through survivors once they body block; you have to hope that they mess up a lot. And this has existed since before the free BT/Hope off hook. Regardless of the "free kills/escapes" argument, do y'all not see how killer guarding hook in endgame is disadvantageous for the killer, not the other way around? Can you at least give me that?
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This sounds stupid, but I think I grinded my "bad Killers" down enough to still play them.
I get matches where I am helpless but those are only the most atrocious maps. Most other times my time as Ghostface, Myers or Sadako is fine. However I see a big difference between these games and my Oni games, where I take it more serious.
However I still think that "hook grabs" are pretty much a dumb mechanic on healthy survivors. I know what you mean by conga line and how it would put a Killer at disadvantage here. However I would take this because it would put a dent in hooking and the "defending the hook" moments are usually more exciting for me: The scenario where I defend the hook against the "swarming" survivors.
To hinder camping I think removing the grab would be fine. This is only a small nerf to Killer that I can live with.
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All of the maps are atrocious for killer. The only exceptions being the times where you get insane deadzones on Suffocation Pit and Azarov's Resting place, which I seem to get exclusively when I play survivor. I don't know how you find defending the hook exciting. What are you saying? Removing hook grabbing "a small nerf" for killer? No, it's a huge nerf. Survivors could literally run up healthy, get a guaranteed hook trade, and often times that's the game losing play for you. You can't afford for them to just hook trade, because you will lose. What they do is they sit on a gen for 45 seconds, come over and unhook in the last 15, meanwhile you just sat there. It's a net loss no matter what, so why you would think that them hook trading for free is fine speaks to the caliber of survivors that you get.
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Yes, that's how it should be...a killer sitting waiting for a free grab is not a healthy part of this game.
That part of the game should be punished severely.
Leaving hook should be rewarded greatly.
Healthy hook grabs should be removed, punishing players who rely on camping and skilless plays.
And the devs should give killers some type of reward for hooking unique survivors, something like windows and pallets get blocked for a minute after each unique hook or something like that. Or something else that punishes skilless camping plays while rewarding skilled hunts/chases.
Devs have no interest in doing that, though. They don’t understand why players play their game.
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