New players getting stomped by ppl with 100s/1000s hours experience!
Can someone please explain to me, why brand new players (people who I have encouraged to come and try the game this weekend because it is free), are going against killers with 100's or more hours?!?! One of my nephews who I encouraged to give the game a go, just sent me the steam id of a Legion who hooked all 4 of them in under 3 mins, while zero gens got done..... the person has 1200 hours in the game! BHVR, getting new blood into the game is great! Putting them against killers with 100's or 1000's of hours experience isn't going to keep them playing!
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DBD is an old game. There are players who take extended breaks and come back, and situations where the only games available to you contain experienced players. It can only match you with people actually playing the game and most players are veterans at this point.
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One reason is because the ratio of new players to veteran players in a game that’s over six years old is pretty low so matchmaking is going to have a tougher time finding enough new players to go solely against each other. They don’t want people waiting in queue forever so eventually they have to go against somebody stronger than their current rating.
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Guys, this isn't an occasional game, or "matchmaking is going to have a tougher time". This is every game! They are facing experienced killers. I just watched one of them, (streaming to Discord), playing killer and they are facing experienced survivors who know how to loop a tile. This is ridiculous! The whole point of a free period is to try and get more people playing the game. Throwing them in as "cannon fodder" to keep the queue times lower for experienced players..... well, I don't have the words for the stupidity of it. My nephew and his friend have given up playing.
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In order for new players to be matched with other new players, there has to be other new players to match with.
The age of the game, player retention rates, new player growth rates, etc. simply don't allow for that to be a significant number. Any new player will eventually become a regular/veteran player if they play enough.
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If they play enough? That's the point. They won't become regular/veterans if this is their experience of the game. If that is there introduction to the game they are not going to carry on playing it. To quote my nephew, "It's just not fun to play", when I asked him why he wasn't going to play anymore.
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That's on the player.
We can all watch others playing on twitch or youtube, you know it's not that miserable once you learn how to play the game. But you have to learn how to play the game before you get there, you are going to die over and over again the first handful of games you play. You need to accept that, and if you don't, you're not going to enjoy this game at any level. Hell there's masses of survivor mains at higher levels who still whine and moan about the game because they don't get to escape all the time. You're not meant to be able to escape every time. Learn how to lose, it's a PVP game, someone has to.
How do you play single play survival-horror games? You die, over and over again, you reload your save each time, and replay it until you don't die, and then you move on to the next threat, and so on. Carry the same logic over to DBD, and accept that you have to die a lot to start with.
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Escape every time? LOL They are not escaping at all! Losing is fine, if it is losing a fair match! They have no issue with that. Putting them against people with skill and experience, which makes for a completely one-sided game, and then telling them to get used to it, "someone has to" lose, and they should "learn how to lose". Anyway, I learned my lesson and wont make the same mistake again.
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Find a new killer player to go against then. Matchmaking is telling you they don't exist. The game cant create players that don't exist. This isn't a game issue, it's a player issue.
Play custom games (soon to come with bots btw) until you learn how to play, then you'll get your fair matches, when you can play at the same level as other players.
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@Seraphor with the greatest of respect, telling new players that the only way they are going to get a fair game, is by playing against their complete beginner friends in a custom game? And BTW, although this weekend is the free weekend, if you wait a month or two you'll be able to play with bots......
I suspect that matchmaking is completly skewed to minimise queue times, to the point where any killer who has been waiting long enough, and one of these survivor "noobs" presses the ready button..... they are just going to get thrown into that game, regardless of their MMR, skill, or playtime. That is a game issue, not a player issue! They would have been prepared to have longer lobby times for a "fairer" game.
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You can call it a game issue, but the alternative is players waiting for 10, 20 , 30 minutes to queue into a 5 minute game...
That's how VHS died, absurdly long queue times.
What's better? Playing the game but losing the first few times until you learn how to play (like literally any game, grow a pair), or not being able to play at all because the game is coddling you like a baby and won't let you near the dangerous killers because they might hurt you?
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@Seraphor Well, I do call it a game issue. And if the point of the free weekend is to get more people playing to cut down on queue times..... It's a FAIL, because these new players are having such a horrid time that they are not going to carry on playing it. So great, reduced the queue times for the veterans this weekend, but none of these new players (that spent this weekend being cannon fodder) are going to stick around to reduce the queue times next week, or the week after..... Remind me again how VHS died? ;)
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Personally, I think the bonus bloodpoints thing for survivors is a total hoax. I don't believe for a second that people are flocking to killer disproportionately to survivor (I mean obviously it is disproportionate because 4 survivors for every 1 killer, but you get what I mean). I think the whole "the kill rate for killers is 60%, guess game is balanced!" premise is a pile of #########, and they just left the survivor bonus as is to 1. reinforce this farce that "killer>survivor naow" and 2. address a longstanding grievance with BHVR that the grind is too harsh in DBD (which I'm pretty sure they were referencing shards, not BP, but w/e).
To clarify and make my post relevant to OP: I think there are FAR less killers in the pool of potential killers for newbies to go against than we are led to believe
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Again, this is a player issue, and maybe a generational one too. It's all immediate gratification. Press button to win.
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I don't believe that to be the case. My nephew isn't a "press button to win" player. He will grind to get better. But he's only going to grind to get better if he is having some fun while doing it. Make the whole expereince as unfun as it has been for him this weekend and what is the incentive to even want to play the game if you can't enjoy it while you "git gud"?
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So what's not fun? Is it not fun simply because you didn't get to walk out of the exit gate?
What about everything else that lead up to it? Evading the killer, the chases, stunning the killer, making rescue plays.
You're playing a horror game, you should be able to appreciate getting killed.
If you're not having fun now, you won't be having fun when you can play the game either, because you'll still get killed half the time.
So many people complain about solo survivor, at all skill levels, simply because they can't accept dying in a horror game. This is what you need to learn to accept, this is why I enjoy playing solo survivor while there are tons of players who think it's "literally unplayable", despite us playing the exact same game.
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You should play KYF first with them until they understand the basics.
And then you can only check steam profiles. You will never know if you faced a console player with decent playtime. Also many players with decent time took a break from the game.
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I'm not sure you are understanding what the problem is @Seraphor
They are not having chases, stunning the killer, making rescue plays. They are not even spending enough time in the games to start learning the maps, before they are slugged and bleeding out. I have never seen more one-sided play.
This isn't a complaint about soloQ. It's a complaint that people who are being encouraged to play this game with a "free" weekend are being thrown into lobbies with experienced killers (and in the case of that 1200 hour killer I mentioned earlier - very experienced killers) who are just stomping them in a minute of play. It can't be fun for either side. The game needs new blood. A lot of people have left, people I used to play with. The new RE chapter helped. This free weekend should have helped too, but I don't think many people will stick around with the kind of matchmaking they are being shown.
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>brand new players (people who I have encouraged to come and try the game this weekend because it is free)
That's cold, even for a guy like me
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Why is it cold? I don't understand. I never would have encouraged people to try the game if I had known that MMR is a complete joke for new players and they are just going to be used to fill experienced killer lobbies.
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VHS is suffering because the Monster experience, especially as a new player, is terrible and nobody would stick around. This led to so few Monsters in queue that Teen times kept on lengthening and, once the queue times became too long Teen players also started dropping out.
What you're describing is on the flip side and while it won't hurt DbD that much as DbD has a stable player base and, in a asymm, losing some players from the many won't kill a game like not having enough for the one will it is an issue that will limit game growth.
I don't have any solutions other than KYF but, if you want to get your nephew into DbD and you can't SWF with him on comms getting him to start out as Killer and then branch into survivor later is probably a better route. He'll probably get teabagged and harassed by survivors but he'll stand a better chance of getting some success and learning the maps.
At low MMR, his chances of finding a Killer that will take it easier since he's new is extremely low because low MMR Killers get teabagged and harassed so much by experienced survivors they're probably developing a pathological hatred of survivors from being bullied so much and a team of low MMR survivors is pretty much a shooting fish in a barrel situation if the Killer has more than 10 hours of experience.
In short, the realistic options I see are KYF, play survivor with him on comms, or have him start out as Killer. Since the Killer can't be killed that takes some of the sting of losing out of it and gives him more time to learn game mechanics. What you described is an issue for new players but there's not really anything else you can do about it.
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If they only matched new players with each other, you'd probably be looking at 30 minute queues. Would that help your friends keep playing?
If there aren't enough new people playing, even when the game is free, there's nothing the devs can do. They're not matching new players against veterans for shits and giggles, there's a reason.
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From my perspective when I was a new player back in 2018, I went to survivor because the entire match wasn’t on me. When you play killer, you are your only teammate and if you sick it stands out. Killer is a more scary role for new players so all the new players from this event weekend are also mostlikely playing survivor. Not a lot of new killers to be matched with.
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i wouldn't worry about his opinion, he seems like a bit of an elitist forum troll with nearly 30 posts TODAY. matchmaking is a disgrace particularly for new players, i agree with you, and i don't think it's inviting at all. i also think the game rn is pretty fundamentally flawed and the devs seem only partially aware of that. maybe in the coming months would be a better time to try, but on the other hand, i doubt they'll ever give meaningful balance changes to the S tier killers who really are kind of outliers.
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You are correct about the system favoring queue times over farish matchmaking. Also the backfill caused by lobby dodging borks up the system each time as well. In those cases we're doing it to ourselves really.
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New killers can just completely abandon this game after 1 match against "swf bully squad".
And it's nothing good about it.
It's an MMR issue.
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🤣 because recommending dbd is evil. Jokes aside, its funny how people are trying to justify this garbage mmr system. Pretty sure a popular game like dbd has enough players to match beginners with beginners and veterans with veterans, but the mmr system is garbage. That being said, I think dbd is game that having watching some gameplay beforehand helps a lot when you jump into playing.
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OP, don't mind those people. They are used to DBD after all those years and it's hard for them to change their opinion now. I joined in August and I came from League of Legends and I've played some fighting games.
My observations so far have been that DBD cannot decide if it wants to be casual or competitive and even then if they wish to attract new players and keep casual they should be finding ways to retain them without compromising the aspect of the competitive side or higher MMR however you want to view it. It is frankly bull people are giving you this opinion but it's probably bias after they've been around so long.
Now where does League and fighting games fit into this post?
Well basically League is so huge that it has many players AND has been around for 10+ years now. It has had bots since at least 2011 and it has a robust competitive scene. The thing is League really puts in work to match people of appropriate skill levels together for the most part.
Being a higher skilled player and playing with lower skilled players to stomp them is generally frowned upon and from the way Riot has handled it they also don't support that sort of playstyle (namely Smurfs), that's why there is such a thing called smurf queue. What is smurf queue? Basically it's a queue that players who are experienced at league but appear as beginner (like new account) go to if they are detected they are playing to good and new players are generally matched with other new players. The game is obviously much deeper than DBD and matches last longer, meaning you have to be multi-tasking most of the time and on top of that it's a team game. (matches last from anywhere from 20 mins up to 40 or more in rare cases). So you can imagine how jarring it was to join DBD after League.
As far as fighting games go, I will admit I am no good, but fighting games have a huge problem when it comes to newbies kind of like DBD atm. Because most people have been playing for a while the ration of older to newer players is pretty wack for most fighting games so new players are matched against more experienced players and queues are usually pretty long on console for me (try playing Soul Calibur 6 nowadays, maybe I'm too low ranked). It also doesn't help that you have to pay for subscription to even play online against other people and that it needs very good netcode for many people to enjoy the online experience, but every game offers something different. Regardless the most popular ones are Tekken for 3d fighters and I am gonna assume Street Fighter for 2d, so these problems I am describing might not apply (besides the netcode). For games like King of Fighters though or the older Guilty Gear this can be observed. I did get into Guilty Gear a bit but playing ranked had no players whatsoever, and most players playing GG accent core plus r have been playing easily over a decade, that's why Strive trying to make the game easier to get into. Regardless, most youtubers, posters on reddit etc. will tell you that you'll get ######### on and lose maybe a 100 games or more before you even one because of all those factors I listed and people accept that, not because it's fair but because this is the state of the game imo. If fighting games could bring in the same crowd in numbers as LoL does you would not see this kind of mindset probably. Fighting games are also difficult mechanically and not everyone can execute everything after a couple of hours.
For DBD this is not a problem because it's simple enough mechanically both for survivors and killers for the most part. I would like to think DBD has many more players online daily than GG accent core or some other fighting games (ignoring the most popular obviously), so it would not explain why on Halloween of all days, when this game is free and they can make a good impression they didn't decide to implement some last minute decent matchmaking considering they have experience with this.
I dunno where exactly I am going with this, but mostly I agree with you. I think they could have made a good impression this weekend considering so many people would be playing it. Just because DBD players have stuck around and accept some decisions BHVR has made either because they agree or they can't think of an alternative doesn't mean people outside this playerbase will accept it. Many games are making their games accessible by removing mechanics and difficulty and the veterans always complain about games being dumbed down and I cannot say I blame them. If I were god-like at a game and could win tournaments or get top 3 or something I also would hate to make my skill more accessible, but at the same time it gets stale if the game becomes impenetrable and it only comprises of veterans, that's how it dies down. Because no fresh blood can get in. The way DBD is right now for survivors is high-skill floor while for killers it's low-skill floor that's why you see this happening. You have to spend a lot more time as survivor to get decent and it still doesn't guarantee you win if your team sucks than with killer who starts out easy and gets more complex the more you play.
I simply think they should have implemented a more accurate MMR for this weekend, if not at all levels maybe the lower ones then or perhaps the starting MMR.
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Matchmaking in this game is very fucky. Particularly for new players, because of the ratio. At this stage most of the people who play have played for years. And there aren't enough new players to avoid games like that. And knowing the playerbase as I do I'd imagine there have been a lot of experienced players on this weekend explicitly for a chance to seal club
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It is sad that new players have such an awful experience.
That is a valid point for the need of bot matches to train first.
I hope the bots will be somewhat good.
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