Should survivors get positive effects from killer powers
I'm mainly saying this because of the Knight when picking up a flag survivors get both endurance and a free speed boost with no other downside no Exhausted or Hindered nothing. The only two killer's that give survivors some form of positive thing is Wesker and Nemesis though Nemesis gives a minor speed boost while Wesker gives them that injured speed boost when grabbed and injured. But no other killer gives any form of positive status effect for survivors. So may main question is should grabbing the flag no longer give the positive status effects?
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Nemesis M2 also gives speed boost.
Yea, it should be removed. Like free BT for 5 seconds just because you cancel chase with bit better Nemi Zombies AI is too much.
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The speed boost and endurance don't really make sense from the banners at all.
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The clown's yellow bottles can give the survivors and himself a speed boost
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Nah it's bad that the killer's power is in the survivor's hand,you might well let killer's open the gates early to end the match,but that isn't a bad idea, because you might to leave or do something important, but don't want to tank your MMR, with if you have to take a sh really bad , really really bad
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Like allow killers to open gates anytime if their not having fun,or something comes up because everytime ,I start someone wants me to do something and it's usually a good match.That way, you don't have to get a penalty for DC
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The killer: sees a bad map for him
Always the killer: alright, where's the door?
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What would you do to solve the solution.
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Like how could you make it non abusable?
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I think that opening exit gates for killer is fine as it is. Survivors only need to do those 5 gens and you can open the door. If you stand still and wait for them to do it, it might take around 3/4 minutes.
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Yeah, I guess you right?I could just leave the game running.
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If the killer is strong with that in their kit as well as both sides having options and ability to outplay than yes. The problem with knight is there is no options or real counter play, so it doesn't work.
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And if you used the Cigar Box add-on it also gives them wallhacks.
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As the ghosts are right now i think the flag should be removed completely honestly, its easy enough to evade them. If they buff the AI though then ok flag is fine, but as of right now the ghosts are more for directing where you want them to run, cutting off angles and well.. They can camp for you so.
The ghosts are just not very dynamic, the flag giving speed boost makes no sense at all, if they were stronger it would be justifyied but rn? no i think not.
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clowns yellow bottles too
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Kind of like survivors do already when it's a killer they don't like lol
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the banner is the carrot-on-a-stick situation.
'Holding W' as people like to say, is usually an optimal choice as opposed to sticking with a loop if the killer is already in an optimal position. By creating a power dynamic with the Banner, there is a struggle for power between the killer and the thrall and the survivor. The survivor would have to remain in the area, evade the thrall, and not die to the killer. The odds are not stacked in their favor.
With this mechanic, the survivor can ultimately be their own demise due to their greed for speed. They arent holding W, so if you have the window/pallet loop on lock, and the thrall is able to assist you, you win the chase and the banner did its job.
This isnt the only killer with a downside for poor use of their power. Most killer powers have and *should have* a punishment for poor use of their power, its the skill floor and you have to step up to the plate or look like a fool.
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I'd rather them make the knight's green mist pathing invisible, along with the circle radius of the ghosts. Perhaps keep the banner but don't highlight it for survivor.
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All killers have an indication of when their ability is active/being used. There’s no reason why this killer should be an exception.
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I suggested removing the banner mechanic entirely. His power is weak enough without it.
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As a general statement it’s ok for a killer effect to give the survivors an advantage so long as the benefit to the killer more than outweighs it. You can maybe have some interesting risk versus reward decisions if the killer can get a bit payoff by giving the survivors a short term gain.
That said though I agree the banners giving a speed boost probably isn’t needed.
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Every Killer in the game besides range/recharge Nurse does have this and always had this. In fact, not only do all Killers have punishment for using their power incorrectly, some get punished even when they DO use it correctly
The punishment is called ‘moderately increases the chances you lose the game in 6-8 minutes and watch Survivors get free distance off your mistake while you still have to deal with 1-2 second chance mechanics when they make one which they might never if they’re good or have good RNG’
Plus with the Knight and a few others I wouldn’t even call it using the power ‘incorrectly’ considering that the way they intend for you to use his kit is actually giving people worse results on the PTB right now than when they play him as a hybrid of other characters
If they’re really set on keeping the banners as the carrot-on-a-stick then they clearly need to address the other Knight’s downside
Sorry but no, Killers kits shouldn’t have multiple built-in crutches to handhold weak-links. You expect Killers to rise to the skill-floor or else they deserve to look ‘foolish’ and what about bad Survivor play?
Nah, just give them a banner for free haste AND endurance, show them exactly where the Knight is drawing a path at all times and of course provide a bright green radius around the already-easy-to-escape guards so you know exactly how to maneuver around them without needing an ounce of spacial awareness yourself
I’ve already adepted Knight after getting stomped by sweats my first few games and I also won some tough games afterwards using full builds, I can tell you with 100% confidence good Survivors definitely don’t need all these built-in pieces of counterplay to deal with Knight. You get punished a lot with him even when you play as BHVR intended
You can legit hold W and run around basic pieces of debris and the guards will never touch you, are you kidding me?
Post edited by AJStyIez on1 -
What's worse is that the built-in counters they put in are normally for your more casual survivors and they normally don't understand how to use them or even know about then. The survivors that know how to use the counters are good survivors that don't need the built-in counters.
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Thank you, this is exactly what I’m talking about. People have this big echo chamber about how games should never be balanced for the top % but conveniently never bat an eye or speak out against the game(s) being balanced around the bottom of the barrel players
Don’t get it wrong I’m not saying the Knight is bad or that you don’t deserve counterplay when you play Survivor, I’m just saying you also don’t need 3-4 crutches to help bad players against middle of the pack/above average Killers
The Knight has a lot of potential and I predict with tweaks he’ll be towards the top but not S or A+ tier. He’s not Nurse or Blight, yet he has way more counterplay and people think that makes sense lol
Its like people never learn from the past. When you balance something strictly for bad/casual players what happens is the already average/above average/top 1% players just became increasingly capable because they also gain access to those same training wheels attached to mechanics that they don’t even need because of their experience. Eventually, those bad/casual players that the mechanics were catered to either quit the game thus making catering to them pointless OR they get better at the game and they join the other thousands of average/above average/top 1% players that also abuse the training wheels that never get taken away after mastering the bicycle
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Exactly alot of people don't understand that balance can trickle up not just down. Look at how many pallets there use to be so bad players still had pallets after they wasted a few but good survivors would save then and use them correctly making it and over abundance.
I know it's a perk but unrelenting is a perfect example of a good designed crutch because it helps newer player that tend to miss m1s alot but more experienced player that don't miss much get almost no value from it.
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No, they never should. Sadly, most killers give the survivors positives to use against them.
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My main issue with the whole mechanic is that the summons waste a LOT of time going to the place where they initially detected the survivor and then plant the banner before even attempting a chase. By that time the survivor is already in full control of the situation, the knight has already spent time setting up the whole thing and the survivor can easily grab the banner to then tank the killer and sail away into the horizon.
Preparing a good setup is very situational and typically relies on the survivor already having made some kind of mistake.
I mean, I don't necessarily want to have a trigger happy killer spamming his power every 5 seconds and it's OK that a killer is punished for using his power poorly, but the punishment should be relative to how powerful is its potential benefit, and this is definitely excessive.
They should either remove the banner entirely or leave it, but make the guards much more dangerous and actually threatening (heavy benefit, heavy punishment)
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No not really. The fact that Clown's yellow bottles can give survivors a speed boost too is just ridiculous and now this with the Knight.
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If we menage to have the knight balanced, with the flag, I would say yes it would be cool the endurance. But the knight needs to be a little bit stronger overall :)
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Never
Just seems like a very thin line to balance as anything beneficial would need to be offset by something equally (if not more) oppressive.
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