Should Ruin get a buffed regression speed?
I would say yes with the caveat that it still deactivates after a survivor dies. I don't think it needed to be nuked from orbit like it was but I think rebuffing the regression speed would help for the following reasons:
(a) Ruin encourages pressuring gens. If you don't take a survivor off of gens, Ruin does nothing. Camping Killers get very little value.
(b) With it deactivating upon the death of a survivor it would encourage spreading hooks around which is a healthier playstyle.
(c) It doesn't stack with any of the gen kicking perks and, most importantly, it can't be used with Eruption. It's an either/or situation.
Personally, I think a buffed Ruin regression speed would be healthy for the game. What are your thoughts?
Comments
-
I don't agree. Ruin was hella annoying to verse every game, required next to no skill to use, works completely passively - just play the game and you'll get ruin value - stacked horribly with nurse, blight, spirit, pinhead, etc, and worse of all decimated solo q while barely touching people playing with friends. Bring old ruin back and enjoy even longer killer queues, and probably loads of killer nerfs when the kill rates rise to 75%.
Besides, there's a bunch of other slowdowns if you need them. Isn't COB, DMS, Corrupt, Deadlock, PGTW, Pentimento, Pain Res, Gift of Pain, Jolt, Overcharge and E-Crutch-On enough, especially with the base gen time increase and mini PGTW added to base along with the rest of the killer buffs?
5 -
Please, for no other reason than that I didn't bother to get my adept Hag before 6.1 and now it's not possible against most lobbies I see haha
1 -
Ruin did absolutely nothing if survivors just repaired gens. It required killers to actively pressure gens in order to gain any value from it. That made it a fairly healthy perk, which required killers to leave the hook and go after other survivors.
Now we have a Pentimento, Eruption, Call of Brine and Pain Res meta, all much more oppressive and unhealthy.
15 -
Still can't believe they did a 100% nerf lmao. Might as well have deleted it because no uses it anymore.
7 -
as a soloQ player i have to say, ruin in his current form is not hex worthy.
7 -
Plus keeping the "deactivates after first death" aspect discourages tunneling someone out of the game immediately since you otherwise lose the perk way sooner than you might otherwise.
Huh. Random meme idea: Ruin-based but you don't go for the kill until/unless it's cleaned.
0 -
The thing about ruin is it’s a passive slowdown meaning killers that had high mobility such as Blight, Nurse, Billy etc really made games feel super oppressive in a survivors pov.
1 -
why so you can properly run Ruin+undying+Brine+overcharge.
i bet that is what your killer mind is thinking
2 -
So 2 of your perks literally don't work until you lose your other 2 perks? This is somehow worse than Brine + Eruption + pain Res + overcharge?
13 -
I think you're overlooking the deactivate upon death part. Ruin can't be used with CoB, Overcharge, Pop, or Eruption. Deadlock and Dead Man's Switch stop regression while active.
It can be used with Pain Resonance, Jolt and percentage slowdown perks but I have to ask what seems to be more fun. Facing a Killer who loses gen slowdown when they kill a Survivor or facing a Killer with CoB, Overcharge and Eruption where they lose nothing and only gain when they kill a Survivor?
I find games where I stick around for longer and the Killer pressures gens, leaves the hook, and spreads around hook states to be more fun than games where the Killer hard camps and tunnels out a survivor. A Ruin with a buffed regression speed encourages the Killer to leave and spread hooks while there is little incentive for a Killer with CoB, Overcharge, and Eruption to leave.
1 -
Your comment is non-sensical once you understand game mechanics.
11 -
What they need to do is just normalize gen regression perks to all be extremely powerful, but then only let you take 1.
For example, make all game delay/gen regression perks a special type of perk that only goes in a new 5th slot and then buff/rework them all.
Hex Ruin: keeps the, disabled when survivor killed, buff the regression up to 300%
Jolt: Now works on special attacks, and regress nearby gens by 12%.
Pain resonance: Bring back the gen exploding, regressed the gen by 20%
Pop: Bring back the total percent, make it regress by 30% and buff you base kick to be 5% at all times
Corrupt: Make it block all gens then deactivate on first "HIT" (not down)
Oppression: Remove the cooldown entirely
Overcharge: Make it buff you base kick to 10% along with it's current effect
Dead man's switch: Make it block the gen with the most progress at all times. Buff duration to 45 seconds
Tweak the numbers obviously, but the point is that they should all be strong, but have different uses. But you can only take one of them. You can't ever stack them. Normalize them all to roughly on average, give the same slowdown effect. Figure out how fast you want gens to go, and decrease the gen time back down to 80 seconds. Then make all of these slow the game down, on average, by the same amount, say 40 seconds per gen, but done in their unique way.
3 -
I wouldn't mind a buff to either 150% or 175% regression while keeping the "deactivates when a survivor is killed" thing in there. But no to it going back to 200% regression. The devs wanted a different meta at the end of the day.
2 -
I'd agree with that. It would lead to more chase and info perks which would make Killers stronger in those areas but those games, win or lose, are a lot more fun than games with campers and tunnelers.
0 -
Both Ruin and Undying should be reversed to their previous state. At least, while totem spawns are so horrible that survivors spawn next to lit totems.
2 -
I had an idea regarding Ruin a few weeks ago because admittedly it is pretty bad now. What if it worked like this?
”A Hex that affects Survivors’ repair progress.
All generators are affected by Hex: Ruin; when a generator is not being repaired, it automatically begins to regress.
For the first 120 seconds of the trial, affected generators regress at 150/175/200% of the normal regression speed. After the first 120 seconds, this regression rate gradually decreases over the next 120 seconds from 150/175/200% of normal to 100% of normal.
After a Survivor is sacrificed or killed by any means, the Hex: Ruin totem automatically reverts to a dull totem.
The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex totem is standing.”
Basically what this means is, it starts the trial at the same strength as it was before 6.1.0, but it weakens itself over time. If cleansed early, it’s no different than it was before the nerf and might still provide a bit of early-game value. If it lasts longer than that, then it won’t be as oppressive as it was previously, and it still turns off after a death.
What do you think?
1 -
I think Hex: Ruin should have a different effect on top of the regression. Like imagine if every 40/35/30 seconds the Entity broke a dropped pallet around the map automatically as well. Nothing game changing but good quality of life, since that's all Ruin is nowadays, it just saves you time from doing a basic task like kicking a generator.
0 -
Why was it nerfed again in the first place?
0 -
So I could just put Ruin on, no Thrill, no Undying, nothing else, and just get crazy value out of Ruin? No. It's a hex, so it can be destroyed.
1 -
Was with you until you started talking about the new meta being oppressive.
0 -
Free 200% regression that required no interaction from the killer. It was fine on most killers, but as soon as you get a Blight/Nurse/Spirit that is able to pressure the map easily, it became incredibly oppressive. On top of that, you almost always protected it with Hex Undying. This meant that at least one survivor had to find and deal with two totems just to get rid of. This meant even less time on gens. This was also during the high times of old Tinkerer, that could trigger an unlimited amount of times. Literally any killer could use Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer, and get instant value.
0 -
Always hated ruin it punished you for getting off the gen to do anything else
got a MoM build? Punished.
Wanna go for a flashsave? Punished.
Bored of holding m1 and you wanna go interact with the killer? Punished.
actually a straight anti-fun perk and killers hate using hexes so no one was having fun with it
3 -
On certain maps if you got a good RNG spot it could be very difficult to find, and this could be really annoying or "oppressive" if there where 2 survivors left. So instead of just adding the "deactivate when a survivor dies" they nerfed the regression speed as well.
So now there is 0 reasons to touch ruin since there are so many better regression perks now.
0 -
bhvr wanted killers to be less punished for not running slowdowns so they increased base gen repair times and nerfed most regression perks. This was an amazing idea.
0 -
No, Ruin should stay as it is.
Base regression should get bugged to 0.5c/s
1 -
By different meta they were simply playing semantics, there is no “different” meta...
They nerfed several slowdown perks and meta Survivor perks into lower tiers while making multiple other much more oppressive slowdown perks and gen/chase perks stronger
The game literally has not changed. The food chain is exactly the same and the meta for both sides is the exact same, the only difference is the name of the perks being used. The last version of Ruin was fine
0 -
Because bhvr wanted to shake up the meta, and ruin was in the top 5 killers perks. The point of the perk overhaul patch was to get people to run other perks.
1 -
Cleansing the totem as well as a death disabling means unless the perk is beyond amazing no one will ever run it. Even buffing it back to 200% why would you ever take a perk that turns itself off if you do too good over other options? Does hyperfocus turn off once a gen is finished? Does circle of healing disable if gens are done too rapidly or x heals are done in game?
2 -
Well yeah. As long as the gameplay loop stayed the same of course the new meta was still going to be gen regression and anti tunnel/gen speed perks. Bhvr would have to overhaul the game entirely to truly create a new meta that wasn't just new gen regression perks replacing the old ones.
0 -
Either buff it to 150% of make it lose the "deactivates when someone dies."
Basic rule of thumb for perks is "if no one ever uses it, it desperately needs a buff". Bad perks have no right to exist in this game
2 -
Bruh. The conditions on Ruin are wayyy too steep for it to still be a Hex totem
It can be cleansed which is fine, but then it also deactivates as soon as you do your job properly one time which is why nobody runs it. It has to be one or the other, not both. People act like Ruin wasn't getting cleansed in the first 1-2 minutes of decent lobbies in its last version, mind you that this was mostly done by basic game knowledge (The incredibly predictable totem spawns that people have memorized) AND RNG that allowed Survivors to spawn right near a Hex. It was very counterable especially with the nerfed Undying combo that people used for 2 years.
It was spammed, but no more or less than DS/UB/DH was
0 -
I generally disagree that the perk was a "more skilled" perk to use. The regression was completely passive so just running around could give pretty substantial regression. When I ran Ruin, my games were substantially easier and it involved no additional skill on my part. I didn't even have to remember I had the perk equipped.
It was also a perk that affected solo queue survivors more than those on teams. Should I stick to my generator to complete it so it doesn't regress back to zero or should I go for the hook save and lose all progress on my generator? I guess I'll just leave the person on hook. Killer chases one person off of a generator so now someone has to go for the save and the killer regresses two generators automatically. You also couldn't just cleanse Ruin because you didn't know if one of your teammates was looking for it or it was your job to do that. Then while Hex spawns can be really obvious on some maps, they're also downright evil and hard to find on others so you could easily end up in a situation where Ruin was just impossible to find and never got cleansed the entire match.
Ruin isn't necessarily bad. Other regression perks just became a lot better and more consistent. CoB/Eruption are pretty insane right now. CoB gives pretty substantial regression by itself and some amount of tracking in one perk. Eruption gives pretty insane slowdown and allows the killer to leave the generator and rewards them for ending a chase quickly. Eruption doesn't do anything if you don't both kick the generator and down a person.
If we're going to talk about buffing regression perks back to their former glory, PGTW is probably the one to talk about and CoB/Eruption are the ones to nerf in some way. Even then, PGTW is just worse than it was. It's not completely worthless by any means.
1 -
it was spammed just like ds ub dh. Which two of those were nerfed. DS to the ground and DH reworked to be much more fair.
0 -
It's interesting, I was just discussing this with someone recently. I had the idea of either making Ruin not a hex perk (aka constant 75-100% regression on gens that aren't being worked on), or buffing the regression speed. As it stands, it's a minor annoyance to survivors more than anything. All it essentially boils down to currently is the killer can pressure an area near a gen, and the gen will regress at normal speed without the killer having to kick it (meaning survivors can't tap the gen to stop regression). It's simply not worth running in its current configuration, especially with how unprotected it is without Undying. Would it really be so bad to have that slowdown not tied to a fragile hex?
Otherwise, I wouldn't be opposed to straight up buffing the numbers back to 150-200%. Old Ruin was especially busted because it could be paired with old Undying, which was an objective of its own. New Undying is much less oppressive, and the presence of Ruin can be confirmed within seconds of a game by just tapping a gen and seeing if it regresses. Call of Brine provides a 200% slowdown, as well as acting like an info perk when it's canceled out, and isn't tied to a Hex totem and only actively requires the killer to kick a gen. Is it really so bad to have a 150% regression tied to a Hex? Current Ruin is only "useful" on certain niche builds, like Ruin+Surveillance on a high-pressure killer like Artist, and even then, it's objectively inferior to any other gen reg perk configuration.
2 -
I don't want to return it though to its former glory just to do so. I want to return it but with the deactivation upon survivor death because it then incentivizes spreading hooks and deincentivizes camping. That makes games more fun.
0 -
Found the guy that doesn't know what current generator regression speed is.
1 -
Found the forum-dweller that knows they don't have a point so they randomly change the subject
Ruin doesn't need 2 deactivation conditions period. I never said anything about regression percentages. Your proposed change doesn't address the perks weakness
1 -
Ruin at it's peak was an incredibly strong perk. There is a reason it was meta defining and used to the same level as UB/SB/DH/DS/IW/BT, as well as CI/BBQ/Tinkerer/Undying/PGTW. 200% regression speed, particularly against solo players, that activated whenever you got off of a gen simply isn't needed once a player dies, because when it's a 3v1 with ruin still standing you have to throw the game hard to lose that.
Ruin as it is is incredibly weak, because it was nerfed in two ways and only one was necessary. Returning Ruin to essentially 200% speed (by buffing overall regression and therefore helping the entire killer role) would, imho, make it strong enough to warrant a perk slot again while retaining the deactivation clause. Alternatively, keep it at the current 100% speed and remove the hex perk and keep just the "Ruin deactivates when someone dies", but again that would imho still be weak when OverBrine just exists.
The 2 activation penalties exist to balance out the strong effect. The only issue currently is that Ruin just doesn't have a strong effect right now.
Therefore, for the overall health of the game and diversification of the meta, imho Ruin should just be buffed to 200% speed again (or the way I suggested it, buff regression overall). Though obviously, I don't have a dev build so can't test it all and tweak everything until I can come up with the decisive solution, so I can only speak in what I think would be best for the game, and naturally after playtesting something I would be able to form a more conclusive opinion.
1 -
Yeah in that context I agree the conditions would at least make sense. As it is right now it has to be one way or the other. Buffing it for killers universally will lead back to the same issue we have now though with Solo/SWF/Nurse/Blight bottlenecking the balance because certain things are necessary to compete with skill-cap Survivors in Discord/bad RNG combos but completely overwhelming for casual Solos that came unprepared to deal with anything of that caliber
0 -
Absolutely. I loved using it and playing against it. No more fun "let's find the totem, guys" games anymore. Maybe some people didn't like it, but it was always one of my favorite things. Even back when Ruin was dominating and busted (call me a masochist if you like) xD
1 -
No offense but with more than 400 posts in this forum you should know for a lot of people its never enough.
P.D. Love the E-crutch-ion term, Im going to use it from now on XD.
1 -
I'd like to see a test build where it does 150%, only activates when a survivor is put on a hook, and deactivates when a generator is done. It would kinda pressure both sides to make it work in their favor. Obviously, it can still be cleansed.
1 -
Make it 200% again and keep the 'deleted after first death' to discourage tunnelling and it's fine. Ruin requires the killer actually play well to get value out of it as opposed to many other cheap slowdown perks.
Right now it's absolute trash. Like it's literally one of the worst slowdown perks and it's a Hex 💀
2 -
just remove the deactivation thing, we don't need two ways this perk can become useless.
that, or remove the hex aspect.
0 -
Hot take here: Ruin was terrible on any killer that didn't have high mobility. Even then, without undying it was worthless and with undying not that great. After CoH came out a large portion of survivor's just knew where to look every time, not to mention the one's that are just in the open. Hex's suck, pain res was way better and consistent than ruin was. Even if it got reverted I would still never run it, there's already enough rng in the game.
1 -
Seriously, Dbd has no need of stronger gen regressing perks. The current meta is more than enough.
2 -
I definitely wouldn't call it terrible on low mobility killers since survivors will still need to get off gens to unhook and stuff. It was obviously far more powerful on faster killers, oppressively so in my opinion with tinkerer. But it was still a better perk than pain res i think, at absolute worse where it gets found without a survivor going out of their way to look for it, it's still equivalent to a pain res proc in slowdown.
0 -
Okay, which would you prefer to face?
A) A Ruin and Undying Killer who loses pressure from camping and loses their gen regression after killing a survivor so the Killer is better served by spreading hooks and waiting for seven or eight hooks before killing a survivor; or
B) A Call of Brine and Eruption Killer whose optimal scenario is camping and tunneling one survivor out ASAP on the first three hooks. Then the remaining gens will be incredibly hard to do with the incapacitation from Eruption and gen regression from CoB with only three survivors.
I don't really understand why anyone would prefer to face B. Why would you prefer B over A?
2 -
If you put it that way, i would prefer A, but it still can lead to a boring, stale match.
Buffed ruin would be used with pentimento + plaything for a hex slowdown build.
So i must choose between being slowed down to 2 min per gen (slowdown) or be incapacitated while gen progress revert at a extremely fast rate (regressing).
And pain res, deadlock, gift of pain, can be paired with either.
God i hate this meta.
1 -
I really really hated old ruin. Don't get to play the game till you get rid of the totem. No thank you.
1
