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so i do tunnel and camp or play fairly?
i really don't get this community
i complained how its a bit too frustrating to get a 4k or even 3k without tunneling and camping
and i got a lot people saying im crying....about getting a 4k but you know, working my .... for it, unlike the opposite side
soooooo do i just camp and tunnel, i mean i know a lot of players don't like that, even i don't, but tbh its a very viable tactic and it always works
so im trying to understand players here, do i camp and tunnel and win or are we trying to make the game better and remove tunneling and camp so everyone enjoys the game
because tbh every time a killer that is still playing fairly, when they complain that they are playing a bit too hard to enjoy the game they always get people telling them they are crying....
you complain about getting camped and tunneled "just use perks or maybe you suck?", you complain about getting gen rushed or finding the game a bit too hard without playing toxic "maybe play better or just use perks"
does anyone have any other argument beside use perks or get gud?
Comments
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Play however you feel like.
Someone will always be complaining about your playstyle, no matter what.
21 -
I ll tunnel 1 early if needed. I won't camp unless they're seconds from death or its ecg. Just play how you want, you brought the game and entered the match 👍
5 -
yea but tbh i really don't understand people are we trying to keep the game enjoyable for both sides or we just wanna go full on toxic
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yea maybe tunneling that one troublesome survivor at the start is a good strat
ty for that advice
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No matter what you do, you will always be accused by survivors at high MMR of camping, or at least tunneling at some point, even if you played as "fair" as possible.
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They never understand that they are camping and tunneling to win.
They only ruminate on the bad feelings that result in their early exit from the game and mistakenly believe that they are doing it to harass us.
The big difference with BM is its cause and effect. Either there are players who do what is necessary to win and feel bad as a result, or they intentionally try to control the game by making their opponents feel bad.
Of course, I can assure you that as long as camping and tunneling is a valid tactic, it will never decrease. Continue, even if they are no longer effective, they are still effective tactics when the goal is set to ensure a kill on one person.
To reduce camps and tunnels, many survivors are willing to give them a big penalty, but will complain if they end up dead themselves.
The only realistic way to reduce camping and tunnels is if not doing them gives the killer a greater benefit or advantage than camping and tunnels.
1 -
Tunneling survivors is not inherently toxic. It's the only way to win at high MMR.
Survivors have never worked a generator to 33% then gone around the map and worked every generator to 33% before trying to finish one generator. As the killer you should not feel the need to play by a restriction that survivors do not follow.
Hooking one person three times is half of your expected goal. Hooking three people one time is nothing.
7 -
There is not really a "we" as in "are we trying to keep the game enjoyable for both sides or we just wanna go full on toxic?".
No one has real authority to police how others play, and in the end, how you go about playing killer is your prerogative. You don't have to align yourself to any trend.
The most players can do is act at their own scale in the direction they believe in. You'll find some people here who are actively trying to make their games enjoyable for both sides, playing fairly and being good sports, but you won't run into them the most often. It is a bit of a test of faith being a fair or friendly killer, since your efforts to make peace with the other side will always be ruined by the next tunneling killer your suvivors will encounter.
What I can say though, is that playing full on toxic only makes the games harder. By playing the game fairly, you might take more losses, but you'll face more balanced and relaxed teams, have good matches. Since you won't rise in mmr too quick, you have time to grow your skill. By playing "sweaty" or "toxic" as killer, you'll be sure to soon face higher skill survivors and be BM'd back, and you might encounter them quicker than you can adapt. Then, you truly won't have the choice left on how you want to play, not because survivors are overpowered, but because you built your empire on a single strat and aren't as good outside of it.
It's a red pill/blue pill situation, for the most part. =)
7 -
I adapt my playstyle to the survivors. If the game is fairly chill with no gen rushing or excessive bodyblocking etc I'll usually be more relaxed.
If survs are sweating hard though, cranking through gens and going for every possible flashlight save I'll switch it up and tunnel someone out to slow them down. And if I'm at one gen left and no kills? Hell yh I'll facecamp someone, doesn't always work but I like to finish with at least one kill. But likewise i don't generally tend to 4k unless I'm sweating for pips/ challenges. I'll just let last surv get hatch or gate.
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You just have to assess your position in the game and act accordingly. Like if you've gotten 2-3 hooks and your still on 5 gens then there absolutely no need to tunnel or camp. But if you haven't even managed to get 2 hooks in and you're on 3 gens remaining theres a very good chance you will lose the game so you really need to pressure one person out the game and try to secure your 3 gen before you're down to 1-2 gens.
Ideally you want to alternate between 2 survivors and try to get at least one of them hooked twice before 2 gens pop. That way you know that at least you have 1 person on death hook and of you lose another gen you can focus on that person and get them out the game. It's easier said than done through because that person will generally play it very safe for the rest of the match, but if you've paid attention to your 3-4 gen location you can usually get them at that point also.
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that's what i usually do as well, but tbh isn't adapting to survivors every game just sound so tiring?
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The majority of the time I go for the no camping/no tunneling 12 hook game.
If I wanted to 'win' every game I would just use the most powerful addons on the most powerful killers. Some people like that, like the people who defend how strong nurse is. To me, having an unfair advantage from the start of the game is pretty boring.
If I meet an SWF that I know, obviously I will play more optimally, as that is what they chose to do, so if you don't match them then you'll have a hard time.
The vast majority of games are solo and duos, though. In the vast majority of cases solo survivor is much weaker than killer right now. I'm at the top mmr for both survivor and killer, and if I can win the majority of my games by going for 12 hooks, if other killers are struggling to succeed without tunneling/camping it means they are higher in MMR than they should be.
10 -
It depends, like everything else, what you want out of the game. For me, the strategy, good interactions with survivors, and chases is what I like. Winning is good but not my absolute priority. As a result I like all the mental work that goes into doing a 4/8/12 hook game. In addition, i like adapting that strat with adjustments to keep from absolutely destroying the survivors if I get a matchup with one's that are on the potato-ish side. It just depends on what you find fulfilling in the game.
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Play the way you want.
It is not your fault as killer player that camping and tunneling are the most rewarding and clear way of winning this game.
And even if i dislike tunneling and camping, Me (a random guy in forum) cant ask you to not play your best.
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Or maybe not because they WANT to be chased since they'll know each loop of the map pretty much well and eventually they'll play safe in order to avoid being downed (unless you are a nurse, Don't even waste time chasing those subjects)... Problem is that if all the survivors in the team are like that guy, there's not much you can do except camp the 1st guy that you have caught
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Unless I'm teabagged I don't camp, alternate hooks so the earliest someone dies is 5 hooks but is usually 7 or 8, and, if the survivors play a flan or bps and it's not the anniversary event, I two hook and let everyone go.
This accomplishes three things:
(a) My games don't get super sweaty since my MMR is based around that style
(b) If I do get BMed it's much easier to push the teabagger out of the game at an early stage. I usually farm with the non-teabagging survivors at that point
(c) Post-game chat, even from groups I 4Ked, is more pleasant than unpleasant. A group I 4Ked as Twins, for example, said that I was the first Twins they faced that they had fun with.
If that sounds appealing to you try it. Some people just prefer winning at all costs but their games just end up sweatier and sweatier. If they enjoy that more power to them but, if you're not one of them, I recommend trying out what I suggested with the caveat that if you have been camping and tunneling you won't see the benefits until your MMR settles.
5 -
Maybe because the bhvr loves the killers. Everything that has been done since 2018 for them. There is no fog, maps are bright, the pallets are not safe and there are fewer of them. Removed all tactics except genrush for survivors. Stealth doesn't work. The game is made for killers.
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I think if you want to win you should tunnel and camp.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If every killer played as "toxic" as this game allows then the killrates would be more representative than they are right now as well as the state of solo survivor and maybe then we'd see some real changes to soloq. As it is now, killers playing nice or farming and whatever kind of obscures how strong those tactics can be, regardless of what perks you bring. Obviously some killers like Leatherface or Billy can be more oppressive than others when it comes to face-camping but face-camping and tunneling are strats that are available to every killer and not gated behind a perk. Countering those does require perks on the survivors side like Reassurance or Off the Record / DS (although you bank on the fact that they'll be chasing you and you can waste time cause you cannot really be contributing any other way) and aura reading perks (if you wanna do the whole genrushing vs camping) and on top of that it requires co-ordination which is not being helped at all by BHVR.
Frankly it's the nice killers that are doing more for this kind of strategy as they are not taking advantage of it and showing how oppressive it can really be, therefore changes to solo survivor are very lackluster.
I say keep doing god's work. Frankly you don't need to care about survivor mains opinion and I don't understand why you are looking for their approval. Real killer mains use this strategy. If you want to win more then take their advice.
The game does get harder as you get higher though on killer and you might need to reset your expectations as you might not be able to get away with the same strats as you used to and will need to adjust to survivors who have adjusted to this kind of gameplay. But those strats remain strong in higher level play so you just need to polish them more.
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Like others have said, play how you want. Speaking for myself I actively try to not tunnel or camp and it has almost certainly cost me games I might have won, but to me it's pure golden rule. Tunneling is the one thing I absolutely loathe running into, so I don't do it to others.
If there's multiple BPS or equivalents among the offerings, I'll gladly farm points over kills. However, because I know not everyone enjoys farming, I'll play seriously until everyone is 1 or 2-hooked and, assuming I pull that off, will just proceed to mess around.
For me, Dead by Daylight is a game. I'm not responsible for others' fun but I'm not going out of my way to wreck it, either.
3 -
As some wise twins once said: "Do whatever the ######### you wanna do!"
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Everyone knows there isn't actually a high MMR where you consistently go against good players. I think this has been proven a million times over. Saying "high mmr" is just ego inflating nonsense. MMR is no different than the old ranking system in terms of how many good players you go against. If you are actually going against a team of four good survivors then you are going to lose if you tunnel an insanely good looper. An actual efficient team is going to destroy the gens in minutes if you are tunneling a good player without putting pressure on gens. Maybe you come away with one kill against ACTUAL GOOD PLAYERS with strong toolboxes.
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just ignore how they say you should play a video game and enjoy it. you shouldn't mind winning or losing or the game gets really frustrating.
for camping and tunnelling; if they don't give you a chase for the longest time ever / are heavily immersive, you can secure a hook state (camp) or the rescuer is nowhere to be found and refuse to show up, you just tunnel whatever. they are the ones that should make a killer's job easier when they try to avoid camping tunnelling.
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Playing nicely will get you beat.
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Healing meta power creep means hit and run is no longer effective.
Multiple second chance perks extends chases.
Optimised loops means survivors can loop for days before they need to drop the pallet.
Brighter clearer maps makes stealth killers and traps easier to spot.
Ultimately reducing the avenues available to killers and forcing them to camp and tunnel to win.
It's a two-way street. Over-optimisation hurts us all.
2 -
Play how you like.
If you play hard (leverage as many game mechanics to your advantage as possible to reduce input effort) you'll get better loopers and more efficient teams resulting in shorter matches.
If you play nice (forgo some game mechanics, essentially handicapping yourself) you'll get easier chases and longer matches but it will take more effort.
1 -
I play fair at 5 gens, but if the number of survivors in the match is more than the number of gens left to complete, all bets are off and I will use every dirty trick I know.
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The only way you can play without getting complaints is chasing survivors so they can have some killer interaction, but intentionally letting them go so they can t-bag you at the exit gates.
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Do whatever you think will give you the best result. mix up the strategies.
1 -
Why not treat it just like a game?
Camp and tunnel if you need to, dont care what others say.
BUT!
As an exchange you cannot flame killers when you yourself got camped or tunneled either. Thats how i do.
I totally stand against telling people how they should play, so see this just as an advice. Because what i think really is toxic is trying to make people feel bad or blame them for your own faults. Obviously to get camped and tunneled you need to get caught in the first place. So if they are able to be tunneled its kinda their own fault.
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As someone who cant loop well, let me tell you, my best rounds are the ones where im the stealthy gen repairing ninja. It totally works if you have confident runners to hold the killer off you. And often i hide at places and evade killers where they dont expect me.
1 -
Play however you want, as long as its not disruptive/exploitative/AFK/etc. "fun" is a nebulous term that gets thrown around a lot with this game, but its still something you want to strive for as either role. If playing sweaty isn't fun, play more lax and be willing to take some L's in the process. Refuse to lose? Play like you're in a sauna. People are going to complain no matter what you do, so as long as you're following the rules of the game and not trying to sneak around them, play how you want.
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There's basically 2 strategies. You either play to win, or you don't. If you play to win, you do whatever it takes to win and don't care about what other people do or say about it. Here is an excerpt from a free online book i like to refer to about these types of things from
Introducing... The "Scrub"
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
Your other option is to not PTW. My personal strategy is to PTW in order to get rank 1. Then after i get rank 1. I chill out. I roleplay the killer more. I do the following:
- Hook everyone twice
- Kill the obsession.
- Max out my deviousness, brutality, and chase
- Let the other 3 survivors go.
This accomplishes several goals:
- My MMR goes down, making my next game more chill
- The survivors are mostly happy because they escaped and got lots of points.
- Because my future games are easier, i tend to be able to mess around with meme builds and just have fun.
- I get a good amount of bps.
2 -
i really don't blame killers right who tunnel and camp, tbh when i play survivor, gens literally fly while the killer is playing nicely, hell if i play nicely myself the gens fly im forced into tunneling tbh, just get a Claudette telling me im "holy bad" while they tried hiding while injured
1 -
What if there are no runners? don't forget that there is a soloq in the game and the normal balance was in 2016-2018 years.
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Depends on the opponents. Map offering? I'm playing as hard as possible. Bagging and pointing after a pallet drop? Playing as hard as possible. I won't return BM but I'm also going to try my hardest to prevent you from winning.
No map offering, survivors being cute, I'll play very casually and just let the match be whatever.
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Do what you want.
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i am mostly do play soloQ when playing survivor. If noone of the team cant loop well then obvously it will be a short match. However stealth can still save your bacon, its just more difficult then. You said stealth is completely gone, it is not.
1 -
It's real easy. Do what you think is fun. If you stop worrying so much about how many kills you get per game, you can play a variety of ways with a variety of killers and have a blast every game. If getting 4 kills every game is what gives you the dopamine, by all means, tunnel that first survivor and go from there. You know the survivors are all just doing what they think is fun.
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at least i had a wholesome round just the last one. It was a highly altruistic group which kept feeding me hooks, i hear footsteps behind me seconds after i hooked someone. So i turn around and swing. but instead of a swing its a grab off of a pink glyph because it was right behind me.
i expected so mutch to be flamed for it but nah, he was enjoying himself in the endgame chat how he escaped. Not toxic like, he was "wow cant believe i actually made that!" cause he was the only one that didnt let me cut his angles of. I complimented him and even said if i wouldnt had a challenge myself i would have let him have the glyph. Even i do have a "nice" mindset sometimes, cause i actually felt a little sorry for him. Maybe due to the positive vibes he gave during EGC.
but its on the players own to decide wether or not to hold back. Its not like i never play meme-ish or a bit more casual. Its just rare because i mostly care about my challenges getting completed.
1 -
Do whatever is more fun to you. You're still pure, because you're asking this question. I could never stop caring about playing to win from this point. So play for fun as long as you can, and when you're tired of that, then play to win. That was my journey.
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I think the confusion comes from the assessment of camping and tunnelling as being "unfair" when they have been confirmed by the devs on multiple occasions as legitimate tactics.
It's a PVP game, as long as you're acting within the rules of the game (Note: Not the same thing as The Survivor Handbook) then you are by definition playing in a fair manner.
You've paid for the game, play how you like.
1 -
Basically this, play however you feel like.
If you wanna be nice, play nice.
If you wanna be sweaty, play sweaty.
If you wanna use add-ons, use them.
If you wanna use perks, use them.
People will always complain regardless what you do, but I do sympathize with survivors when they are on the receiving end of camping / tunneling. Not your fault, but I can understand why they would get frustrated because they got singled out and didn't play much of the game.
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You shouldn't bother thinking about this.
Whatever you do, someone will always complain. Usually by ignorance, sometimes just to try to ruin your victory.
I've seen so many inane comments over the years. Towards me as a killer, or towards the killer when I'm a survivor.
- Play hard and end-up killing everyone with one or no gens left? You are obviously a try-harder (who won by a hair)
- Fight fire with fire and counter a "bully squad" by over-trolling them? Get comments warranting a report.
- Play nice? You are a baby killer, obviously (even if you got them all on a hook twice)
- Play nice but stay close to the hook during the EGC? Camper!
- Chase a survivor around a hook? Camper!
- Play nice but start to tunnel someone out when only two gens are left? Tunneller!
You get the idea.
Do whatever you want, however you want. They don't have a say in the way you win.
edit:
A few days ago, I've played a game as Nurse with only Franklin on. I was playing nice, meaning that additionally to having basically no perk nor add-on I was letting chase last longer than they should and hitting walls and such. (The survivors weren't well matched against me : MMR tends to fail around midnight.) I've only killed one or two close to the end and I still got complains. One of the survivor (one of the dead) was blabbering about me being a baby killer and whatnot. Another told was about to suggest I use slow-downs but was puzzled I was using only one perk. (And then got that I was actually playing nice.)
Note that killers also complain sometimes, but it's extremely rare as far as I know.
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I'm not convinced it lowers your MMR. I think someone from BHVR said that kills and escapes weren't the only factors.
Also, you can try stuff even at high MMR, as long as you don't absolutely want to win.
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Both are vague and different people will give different opinions on the same situation whether it's camp or a tunnel or not.
All I can say is. Lotsa players seem to have a word outlook on these things that make you wanna scratch you head.
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Play how you want your killer to play when you’re survivor. And if you rarely play survivor, then turn off end game chat.
2 -
Since when is tunneling and camping "unfair"? Its unfun for survivors, but its no bug or hack or anything.
1 -
Already said, but play however you want to play and don't be a hypocrite. If you do that, you're all good.
So don't play "hard" and then start uncontrollably seething when your opponent(s) dare to do the same, basically.
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They've stated multiple times that it only looks at kills and escapes. And anecdotally i can clearly perceive my matches getting easier the more i do this.
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I've heard that, but I've heard the other version too, from themselves. It's not like they never tweaked it either.
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