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i think the knight is just destined to fail from the start
between bhvr choosing to design a killer with a power fully dependent on AI when they've already shown that they cannot design a good AI or not willing to fix the issues with it (zombies getting stuck for ex) for almost two years.
and them ignoring a lot of the suggested changes because (pTb hAs nO mAtcHmAkinG) and not learning from their mistakes with artist and making the killer basically play like artist and have the same complained about counterplay but he's even worse at chases than her makes me think this killer is just not going to work.
still i am excited to see if the number tweaks gonna make any better this killer is honestly so cool so am hoping he gets the love he deserves.
Comments
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Killer optimal gameplay:
- Drop your power on the loop
- Continue chasing
- Repeat
Survivors optimal gameplay:
- Shift W to a different loop
- If you see the big green light, go the other direction and Shift W to a different loop
- Repeat
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I feel that the Knight has good long-term potential, so long as the devs continue to improve the AI. Currently, the power works best as a pincer attack, or smashing pallets quickly (with one of the three only), so it's not an incredible power for sure. But of they make the AI better, the Knight could become extremely effective.
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They don't even have to loop, if the survivor just holds shift + w to a corner of the map, it'll take the killer 50ish seconds to down the survivor, pick them up, and hook them.
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exactly, and this is how everyone played against him on ptb and how everyone is gonna play against him when he releases and then everyone is gonna get bored of him real fast.
you don't need months to figure out this is a problem.
hopefully the buffs do something.
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The buffs only buffed his chase (mostly). So it will be the same thing but he will be bit better at doing that.
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He barely got buffed at all with none of the changes having much of any real impact whatsoever and none of his core issues in design were addressed at all. Lots of design issues already at release, feels bad.
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Ots like a bad artist as u cant canvel ur power while it moves
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At this status i would make the soldiers to become like zombies sincerely
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The problem with the Knight is simple:
Once again the devs came up with a new and exciting power, but also, out of obvious fear of backlash and "OP" claims from survivor players who don't understand it, the Devs have also coddled the survivors by making everything the killer does too slow, and too telegraphed to be effective (I still haven't forgiven them for giving Onryo, an M1 STEALTH killer mind you, a freaking Lullaby radius, and Dredge a 24 meter directional "Breathing/movement" sound even when he's "undetectable").
The only way to combat this is for the devs to realize that players actually appreciate a bit of challenge and surprise, over an opponent who shouts out and telegraphs to them everything they do! Getting the devs to realize this though? Yeah, Good Luck!
If they simply removed the "Green Orb" and the "Detection Radius Circles" from the Survivors PoV's then His power would actually have some tactical fun to play with. Honestly, if you can tell in advanced every move your opponent is going to make without having to make any educated guesses, then what "threat" are they to you? Chess would be stupidly easy, and incredibly one sided if by playing Black, you gained precognition over all of Whites moves wouldn't it?
The problem with the upcoming live version buffs is that they don't address any of this, and only make instantly planting guards at a loop more effective than setting up patrols. Sure they made the guards chase begin slightly faster, but survivors can still see when and where you are planting them, as well as their detection range, meanwhile the Knight, when using his power, Can't even see the survivors and doesn't know where they are going! This actually makes his power favor the survivors more than the killer, and you can quote me on this when it goes live and everyone realizes how useless it is.
If they'd just make this change he'd at least be a B tier killer, and actually get some usage out of setting up patrols for his Guards. As it stands right now though... His power is weak as hell, and the only way to effectively use the Guards to pressure survivors is to insta-drop one on a short loop, and hope the survivor stuck around long enough to get detected so you can try and pull off a pincer attack. It's such a waste of a good concept, and all they have to do to somewhat fix it, Is follow this suggestion that I and MANY others have already stated.
Side note/rant:
Personally I HATE how the devs over coddle us as players. We're GAMERS, we can pick up on visual queues like a slowed progress bar, off timed skillchecks, Massive Bleeding, That visual effect and sound to tell us we're exposed etc, WITHOUT the freaking excessive HUD notifications! For crying out loud, Dissolution, like Spirit Fury, only takes experiencing 1 time before we know how to counter it, we don't need the freaking Perk Icon to show up in our hud, let alone all the other notification garbage that goes with it! I mean I can see that kind of thing being useful for anyone with less than 200 hours in the game, or encountering it for the first 10 times, but at some point keeping us on these "training wheels" permanently just feels insultingly condescending to our well earned gamer instincts.
And then they go and give us a killer that has No element of surprise to their power; that even a child could figure out how to beat in 2 matches. Sigh... These devs man...
Edit: sorry for the rant...
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Knight is just a result of the endless content cycle. Doesn't matter how good or bad, we gotta pump out a new Killer every 3 months.
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Id rather they released 2 per year (6 months) and do a better job of them.
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Sad. As I said it will be used to proxy camp at the end. ''Perfectly balanced'' lets goo ^^
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i find it funny they had decide to nerf his add-on's. He is almost more likely to be worse then better.
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Damn survivor sided devs
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The funny part was that they didn't nerf his best addon, which is the one that gives him a speed boost.
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I think the Knight will be fun for killer after these changes. The main issues with him was ai detection and not being able to cycle through his guards. Most of the time you will just drop your guard at a loop and chase with them, so the ai poorly tracking the survivor wasn't a major issue. The main issue was the Guard sometimes not seeing them and taking too long to activate, which may have been addressed by the changes. The change to allow the Knight to prematurely add a Guard's patrol also allows him to somewhat cycle through his Guards since you can just drop a Guard in front of you and hit them to cycle.
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Brain dead gameplay.
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I agree with your side note... For survivors, it is not necessary to tell them everything that happened. Speculating on the possibilities was part of the fun. Even the hook counter... The resources used for memory are so heavily protected that it is impossible to be a child.
But the developers did these things for the benefit of newcomers to the game (and I'm sure there are plenty of players new to DbD who chose DbD as their first game). When something happened that they didn't understand, the first thing they did was not to look it up on the wiki, but to suspect a bug or cheat. They get punked for misguided reports.
Well, from the perspective of making it easier for new players to join, it's not bad.
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it doesn't matter whether he is B or below tiers, because there're only 5 killers in this game who actually reward your skill and counter the most popular strategy that doesn't require more than a button's press, and the knight will never be one of them. you'd get held W no matter where his design goes unless they significantly change him.
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That's why it will be used to proxy camp ^^
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Poor zombie AI?
Maybe from Greg, but Karen don't take bs from anyone... even me.
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Kinda seems like a big liability for killers when survivors can see the big green light. 🤷♂️
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The counterplay to the Knight is too simple:
See green path? Shift-W perpendicular to the path.
Done! Knight is now an M1 killer.
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Handholding survivors with too much information has been a problem ever since they butchered Spirit (now nobody plays her).
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Don't blame the devs completely, the community is also to blame. People don't like adapting, they whine about "balance" when they don't know how to deal with something. The devs have learnt to ship things in an overbalanced manner precisely so the community (this includes Killer players) doesn't complain.
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spirit was a mistake, she should have never stayed the way she was for as long as she did. she still deserves some addon nerfs as well.
so "good riddance"
however slinger didn't deserve what he got he should have been compensated in other ways.
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Unfortunately I have to disagree on what you're expecting survivors to pick up on. What you say is true for experienced players like you (and also me). And for me personally I agree with everything you say. But I can also guarantee you that my solo queue teammates who do all safe gens/gens on one side of the map first etc etc generally already have zero understanding of the game. I recently played with a Meg that kept trying to cleanse a Boon.
There is a lot to pick up on new players and many survivors don't play killer at all (the other way round seems rarer). They have no idea what the perks do even if they have an icon.
I only ever get a glimpse of this world when I play solo queue but it exists. ;)
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I only lurk here.
But the reason I feel the devs coddle us gamers is because SO MANY people come on here to do nothing but complain about how "x perk" or "x killer" is too op and needs nerfed or reworked. The devs literally cannot win.
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As if that's vastly different from other killers and their counterplay.
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i dont know why everyone is talking about the anti loop and not a single word on gen pressure. I see a lot of potential there.
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Well it is. Other killers have other things to do or they take more skill to do it. Knight's power is not worth using outside of dropping it in the loop.
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But you're using that to justify why he's boring/bad design. Look, here's the thing with me. Every time someone says X killer is boring/bad design, I take it as a call for a nerf, or a kind of rework that is somehow gonna benefit the survivors, because BHVR is 3 for 3 on that. I don't look at comments like that as, "This killer needs to be straight-up buffed to be way more powerful" because that's such an uncommon suggestion on these forums. And to put it simply, the best chance we have of killers getting buffed to an appropriate level is to leave them mostly as is, but take out the stupid downsides and put in some qol changes. The devs will not or cannot handle a revert on a terrible rework. But as I said, Wraith, Freddy, Deathslinger, and Pinhead needed qol changes, not nerfs. Those qol changes, or lack thereof, were literally the difference between near-viability and them remaining as trash tier.
But I really think these arguments are fruitless when they get brought up, with all these buzz words attached. "Boring," "unfun," "bad design," "takes/doesn't take skill," "easy to learn/master," "overtuned," "unreactable," "hold W," "no counterplay." It's just a bunch of circular definitions that don't lead anywhere. I'm trying my best to push everyone to actual discussion, not these phony mic drops. If I have to start ignoring people entirely, I will. I have no shame.
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