Why should Eruption be nerfed?
Genuine question. I use it myself so maybe I'm biased, but I'm pretty off and on with this game, so when I came back and saw that a lot of people were complaining about Eruption, I was wondering why. The only argument I seem to come across is that solo queue players can't counter it, and I personally feel like that's a pretty weak argument, so I want to see if anyone has arguments other than that.
Granted, the incapacitation time could be reduced down to like 15 seconds or so if the regression is slightly buffed, I'm not totally against the idea of a nerf. But, you'd probably spend about as much time or more kicking the gens, chasing a survivor, downing them, and then bringing them to a hook, as a survivor would spend incapacitated if they happen to be working on one of those specific gens the moment you down a survivor, so I feel like that's a pretty fair tradeoff. The only time I see it being insanely strong is if there is a 3 gen since there's practically nothing you can do at that point, but you won't always be in a 3 gen scenario.
Comments
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Eruption has carried my ass in a ton of games I should have lost.
I've been saying it's a problem since it got buffed. The Incapacitation is way too long and is pretty much a SoloQ Killer. Likewise, it has a ton of synergy with perks like Overcharge, CoB and PGTW. You never see JUST Eruption.
That being said, I don't think it's overpowered, just overtuned.
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What is needed to combat the SWF can be hard for solocues.
(Although I still think Ruin was not a problem because it could be disabled by simply breaking a bone.)
However, I think it is quite difficult to solo against Eruption.
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As a solo main, I can tell you players who want it nerfed have a valid argument. The only reason why I personally haven’t jumped on that train yet, is because it hasn’t caught on to the masses. So the few times I run into it, I just roll my eyes and tolerate trying to fix the same gen for the 10th time in 15 mins (an exaggeration but you get my point).
It’s surprisingly not at the popularity level of what Ruin used to be, pre-meta shift. But when it does (and it will), it’s going to be a serious problem. It by itself or thrown in some random build is not the challenge- it’s when its paired with other great slowdown perks like COB, PR, and Overcharge- is what makes it Oppresive to Solo Que players. They can not do anything in the time the incapacitated shackles are on. Can’t even do bones let alone scratch their noses if they have an itch. The cooldown is very short and is soul snatching on really good killers who can end chases fairly quickly. And MMR is constantly pairing lesser skilled players against killers with much more experience, further adding angina to the solo que play. SWF’s can coordinate and take hits for each other to delay an Eruption play. That delay could be the difference between a gen getting done or constantly being regressed for what feels like an eternity. I’ve had 93% gens get dropped down to 0, be brought back up to 50%, only to get dropped back to 0 again. If only the player who went down at 93% had a way to warn everyone he was about to go down and to let go off the gens or take a hit for him. SWF’s can do that though.
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Part of the problem too is the 3 gens like you mentioned. While 3 gens are often the fault of the survivors (and they basically always were in the past outside of a few select maps), it's gotten a bit out of control how well you can guard a 3 gen as killer with Eruption/Overcharge/CoB. It becomes difficult to break a 3 gen with Eruption when it (along with other perks) can force that 3 gen in the first place. It's not usually just Eruption by itself that you see. You see it with other strong gen-kicking perks that pair well with it.
But as you pointed out yourself, solo queue players don't have a reliable counter to the perk. It punishes them the most, and doesn't do as much to SWF players who can call out when they're going down so their teammates let go of the gens for a couple seconds to avoid the Incapacitated effect.
It's 10% regression + 25 seconds of not being able to do anything. So if one survivor was on that generator, that's 9 seconds of regression (that's what 10% is) plus 25 seconds of being unable to repair (or do anything else) for 34 seconds of slowdown total. 34 seconds is what it takes to do 37.7% of a gen. That's a huge payoff simply for a killer kicking a generator, and it can apply to multiple at once. Even old PGTW was just 25% off one gen after a hook. The tradeoff is that Eruption is more delayed since you need to get the down AFTER you kick the gen, so you may not always get it if the gen is finished before then. But that's not really enough of a tradeoff to justify how powerful its effect is.
The perk's cooldown also doesn't really do a lot, although I wouldn't actually say that's necessarily a problem.
But yeah all that said, the perk is way too strong right now and at the moment I refuse to use it as killer on principle.
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If you play both sides you will quickly see how broken it is. It is even more of an urgent issue than Nurse right now.
More than that, though, is there are some people on the forum saying it should be buffed to effect SWF too by adding an AOE or something. It is truly baffling how out of touch and how little some people understand balance.
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The difference is as surv, especially solo q, it feels super bad to be just standing around being forced to do absolutely nothing. You cant even heal the guy next to you or run off to do another gen. At least the things you mentioned with killer, you are actually doing something productive.
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Eruption should be changed to hit solo and SWF equally. As is now it punishes solo extra hard but is really weak against SWF groups.
Personally would like to see incap replaced with entity blockers on every kicked gen, balance from there if necessary.
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I hate it because a majority time I've ran into it, it's on killers who run kick builds and choose their 3 gen to defend with their life. It turns the game into an absolute slog.
The killer almost always gets the 4K in those matches as we all eventually die from sheer boredom.
It's honestly hitting the point of old DH with me as I'm losing desire to play just knowing that each match could turn into a game of pure frustration dealing with this one perk.
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I just don't think the incapacitated status effect should be applied as easily as it does for how long it lasts really. Buff the gen regression to 15% and lower the incapacitated back down. Being unable to do anything (not even heal, open chests, etc) should not last for 30 seconds.
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You will always be in a 3 gen scenario with Eruption. It's how killers typically play with the perk. They obsessively kick whatever gens are being worked on. It doesn't matter if it's at the start of a trial or the end. A 3 gen is a 3 gen and it's just about impossible to break against Eruption/CoB/Overcharge when a killer kicks every gen on repeat.
I try to convey this in every Eruption thread. There's this notion that survivors can simply work on a 3 gen early and killers will just not kick those gens. Survivors are going to spend 10 minutes and multiple hook states breaking a 3 gen at the beginning or end of the trial if the killer is playing that way with Eruption. It's way too strong at what it does.
Plus, the Incapacitated effect should go away. There are already many instances where there's not much gameplay happening on survivor. Being slugged, being hooked, doing gens, etc. We don't need a status effect dedicated to doing nothing. It's bad design.
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To be fair, I only opened that thread because I'm new, don't understand the game very well, and was seeking answers. The AoE thing I suggested half way through was a spitball idea based on incorrect perception.
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I kinda feel like it's been endlessly explained at this point what's wrong with the perk and no new points about it have been made since shortly after its buff. Just a lot of talking in circles. I don't get why people don't use the search function on forums
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If people honestly cared about making the perk affect solo q and SWFs equally, then it makes sense to buff the perk to an AoE incapacitate, or make it incapacitate anyone that repaired an affected generator in the last X seconds. This would make the perk the same experience for solo q, and would only affect SWFs using voice communications.
The problem is people say “eruption should affect solo q and SWFs equally”, but they are really just using solo q as an excuse to get the perk nerfed. This is the reason why the only acceptable solutions for them involving nerfing eruption.
TD;LR if someone actually cared about making the perk affect solo q and SWFs equally, then they would also be open to ideas where the perk is buffed against SWF but kept the same against solo. But if someone only wants ideas where eruption is nerfed, then they are using solo q as an excuse, and don’t actually care about the solo q / SWF balance.
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The main problem is that a survivor Incapacitated could just go afk for the duration. Besides, the possible reward for just kicking a gen is incredible (someone made the math and it was close to 45s)
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Because that perk does way too many things,,,remove incapacitation effect completely or make it work once per gen like tinky tinky and it becomes much more tolerable,,,
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On killers with high mobility it's been slightly problematic, mostly on outdoor maps. But I've never had any other killer feel like they're denying escapes because they used eruption in combination with something else - maybe plague with prayer tablet and overcharge.
When I go against it, I just tap the repair button like people used to do with original ruin. It doesn't guarantee avoiding it, but at least provides an opportunity for it to miss you. Also, prove thyself combined with cooperative repairs usually prevents it from becoming annoying.
I still find CoH more annoying when playing killer than I find eruption when playing survivor.
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It's extremely oppressive vs Solo while it barely does anything vs SWF.
Swf can call out when they go down, solo cannot and being useless for 25 seconds isn't particularly fun either.
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Because anything that actively takes advantage of solo queue is unhealthy for the game. Solo queue already sucks, why have a solo queue destroyer perk? It's like adding salt to a wound, burning it, then adding more salt.
Literally screw that perk.
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So what you're saying is you want Eruption buffed to affect SWF which in turn will hurt solo queue even more?
This, instead of having the perk toned down to not affect solo queue as much?
Sounds great.
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My suggestions are designed to specifically nerf the extra advantages SWFs get when they use voice communications to relay game information. This is an important distinction. This isn't designed to be a nerf to SWFs themselves, and it isn't designed to be a nerf to solo q survivors. It's only designed to affect the survivors that are trying to avoid the perk by using voice communications.
The healthiest way to bridge the gap between solo q and SWFs is by specifically nerfing the extra advantages SWFs get when they use voice communications to relay game information. This way you aren't nerfing SWFs themselves, because we all know that some SWFs don't use voice communications at all, and some SWFs aren't using voice communications to gain extra game advantages. We don't want to punish survivors for playing with their friends, but it's completely fine to try to reduce the extra game advantages of voice communications.
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Here is an idea: introduce a new item, the desinfectant. You can poor it over a gen that you suspect to be harboring an Overcharge or Eruption. This will of course be your item for the match and will take 3-5s, but afterwards you can freely use the gen without fear of getting incapacitated midway. We could probably find a couple more kick perks that could be disabled with it. Maybe Merciless Storm? Or preventing a DMS to throw you off for 25s after its applied?
This gives you counterplay when you know that Eruption is in the game, it is limited, because its an item, and you won't be sporting a toolbox or medkit, so its a choice.
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Because most soloQ survivors aren't smart enough to release the gen and predict the down.
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How is solo que not being able to counter it, a weak argument? Thats majority of the playerbase. Its not healthy for the game when solo players can't do anything about it. Its that simple.
Maps aren't just straight lines, they're boxes filled with bushes, walls, buildings & floor levels that all make it nearly impossible to see when a teammate is about to go down. You're useless once it activates on you, for 25 seconds. You're just dead weight. Dead weight and a person just got hooked. Guess where the killer's coming next? Yup! Right back to the gen he knows you were working on, just to set up another Eruption...which is already off CD and can be used again (combo that with Pain Res and CoB). Its extremely oppressive and we have no answers for it and the people who do try to defend the perk are just unrealistic and clearly biased.
Reminds me of when I asked Tru3 what a solo player should do to counter it and he seriously said 'just don't go down', lol.
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I think its biggest issue is less the strength and more the delivery. 25 seconds of incap is EXTREMELY annoying especially in solo queue for when there's little to no tell when a survivor is ever going to go down and cause Eruption to pop. I agree with the take that the regression should be increased but the incap duration should be decreased, greatly so.
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It honestly doesn’t need a nerf.. it take a .25 seconds of touching a gen to counter it. If a killer gets more then one gen to pop then it’s 100% lack of play from the survivors.
balance wise it’s not even in the top for perks for gen regression honestly. There is far better perks with better benefits over this perk. Still a solid perk, very strong when it becomes under 3 players though and that maybe when you see it shine.
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That's what's called a decent killer perk.
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What does it do vs 5-minute gen teams?
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Eruption is literally the only perk that matters. Call Of Brine/Overcharge can be negated by gen tap.
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Because it gives killers worthwhile slowdown from getting downs, which we can't have.
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And what does it do to SoloQ players which are the 60% of the entire survivor playerbase?
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It gives killers an excessive payoff tied to an uncounterable condition, with the minimal requirement of a gen kick, while targetting exclusively the weaker players of the game. Yes, killers shouldn't have it
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It's a bit better than decent, I'd say.
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Nothing, they are still playing and love the game
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I wouldn't go as far to say they shouldn't have the perk, lol.
But it definitely needs a looking at. IDK how it got the OK from BHVR and went live. Horrible design.
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They must be truly overjoyed of being left 25sec semi-AFK for a perk made exclusively to screw with them
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Obviously, i dont want to remove the perk entirely. But they need either to tone down the effect or make it so that soloQ has some way to deal with it.
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So strange that so many killer-only players on this forum think they should be able to hang with the best survivor teams. So, so strange.
Everyone can admit things on the survivor side (like swf stacking things like that) is broken. I don't understand why so many killer players can't accept that yes, the killer side too has absurdly broken things.
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Eruption and Reassurance should both be removed/nerfed. They completely ruin the games balance and don't require any sort of skill whatsoever. I understand that you want a pay to win type of perk like old ds and stuff. But it isn't working, make good cosmetics and we can buy those instead.
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That's all y'all have. Y'all are just gonna hide behind, "Solo is weak" forever.
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When it comes to broken stuff, it takes one to know one, and so no, I haven't once felt that when I was playing killer, "Hmm, this thing I'm using is definitely broken." It hasn't happened yet. And it won't, Y'all have seen to that.
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Really? I've felt that plenty of times through the years. So much so, that I deliberately don't/didn't use the following: ruin/undying at its peak, huntress when her iri was so much stronger, mori when it was ez win just for using it, Spirit when she was busted, many of Blight's addons, Nurse (then, now, and until the devs decide they want a game that starts to show some semblance of balance), current eruption, Legion when he was absolutely busted - i still remember how many streamers on the server I play on (Korean server) shamelessly exploited Legion before he was fixed.
Those are just off the top of my head.
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I think Eruption on itself is fine. It just shouldn't synergise with other perks, or at least, if you can combine it with other gen regression perks, lower their efficiency. The more gen reg perks you have the less effective they should become together, that might be a solution?
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I dont play Survivor much lately but the few games I play I face Ecrutchion almost always, I would say is probably one of the most Killer used perks, especially on gen regression departament (the other being Brine). I wish I had your luck.
You are right on all of your arguments, Ive seen Ecrutchion proc on a ~90% gen, regress it and incapacitate me, then Pain Resonance exploding the gen and start the regression, then another guy coming in, tapping the gen only for the Killer to come seconds later to kick it with Brine, it was quite the experience seeing the gen going from ~90% to 65% in seconds and then Brine regressing it enough to have another Ecrutchion proc.
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I dont understand why are you so adamant in defending eruption. There is no need for it to be really busted against soloQ players because they cant comunicate with each other while having very little to no value against SWF.
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You’re right that there isn’t a need for it to affect SWFs and solo q differently. That is why it would be a good idea to make it an AoE incapacitate, or have it incapacitate anyone that repaired an affected generator in the last X seconds, so SWFs can’t bypass it so easily.
This fixes your problem, and keeps the perk the same for solo q. We solved both problems at the same time!
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Too many people think everything needs a guaranteed counter. Eruption requires a lot to get it to work. First, it has to be off cooldown, next the killer has to take the time to kick the gen, and finally the killer has to get a down before the gen is finished and only applies the incapacitated effect if there happens to be a survivor on the gen exactly when it happens.
Eruption is yet another example of something survivors could easily counter by running an information perk like bond or an off-meta perk like repressed alliance but they refuse to do so in favor of stacking the same boring meta 2nd chance perks then come to the forums crying to the devs to change the game for them.
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If you want to be completely unavoidable, or tone down the incapacitation effect, change it entirely or increase the cooldown.
It is laughable that eruption has a 30sec cooldown while applying a 25sec incapacitation.
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You said your complaint was that it affects solo q and SWF differently, and I made a suggestion that fixes that. If you only want suggestions that involve the perk getting nerfed, it means you are just using solo q as an excuse, and you really don’t care if it affects SWFs equally.
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Doesn't matter how many times you suggest it, it will always be a very bad idea.
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First of all, as i said before a 30 sec cooldown to a 25sec incapacitation is laughable.
Next, many fast killers make the 'time' to kick really short. Blights, wraiths, weskers, can all apply multiple eruptions no problem. Even sadakos and freddys can just teleport directly to gens and apply eruption.
And the getting a down before a gen is repaired is not a difficult as you may think. Remember we are in a gen regressing/slowdown meta so most killers are equipped with a full build focusing on this.
And for the love of god i have said this like 10 times already: Bond does not tell you when a surv is going down. Empathy does not tell you either. No information perk can tell you exactly when eruption will activate. The only reliable way to prevent this that does not require luck or be clairvoyant is to be on comms or fabricate a situation where you see both the killer and the surv aura at the same time.
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