When will spawning mechanics be addressed?
This is a question to the devs but any comments from the community to get this address would be great.
So spawning issues in this game. Mainly Hatch, Survivor and Totem spawning, when will this be addressed.
The big issues currently are:
- Suvivors spawning into the trial right next to a lit totem - This shouldn't ever be allowed to happen. There is surely enough room on each map to spawn survivors not within x distance from a lit totem. So many games i run a hex it goes within 16 - 20 seconds because a survivor literally spawns in and is instantly on the totem. All the while i'm watching them clense it with lethal persuer
- Hex totems spawning right out in the open - I get some spawns can be out in the open but why are majority of spawns in the open? Don't get me wrong some maps the totem spawns are in good spots but on any open map (farm, wreckers, macmillian) i often see multiple totems spawned in the open for all to see.
- The final spawning mechanic that seems just broken is the hatch spawning. Countless games i final hook the 3rd survivor and soon as they are out of the game hatch spawns and game ends because its spawned under a survivor. On the flip side it spawns right under the killer causing an instant closure of the hatch. Given that there is just 2 players left in the trial at this point (1 survivor and 1 killer) surely it can be programmed so that the hatch can't spawn within x distance of either killer or survivor. The end game hatch is already a broken thing as its purely RNG based but the current spawning mechanics make it even more ridiculous (Obviously this doesnt include games were a hatch offering is used)
I'm sure others have had issues with spawning mechanics as both survivor and killer.
Comments
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The worst is when all survivors spawn separate and they all spawn on top of generators. Those games where 3 gens are done at 1 hook? It's usually because of a spawn like this
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That is another thing that gives 1 side an unfair advantage. any time survivors are split up the killer will lose 2 - 3 gens within 90 seconds because they can only be presuring 1 survivor at a time.
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1 & 2 - if the hex always starts away from the survivor then they know to go to the furthest point from their spawn to find the hex totem they need to cleanse - similar to killers that play alot knowing where abouts the survivors will spawn at start of match so they know the area to head to. Same thing if they made hexes in the open more hidden - survivors will never waste time looking in the open and will instead find the hex quickly just looking at the more hard to find spots. There's also hexes you want survivors to break - retribution for auras and Haunted Grounds for insta downs. Also with the totems in the open it makes it easier for you as killer to see a survivor from a distance working on the totem as well as find boon totems easier.
I do think hex totems should look like a dull totem from a distance and not look lit until a survivor gets close to it. The sound should stay because there are plenty of things on maps now that sound similar to a lit totem that can have survivors wasting time looking in the wrong areas.
Also it doesn't help that you as killer can load in after survivors start moving or vice versa. I've had many a match as survivor when my camera is still spinning and I can see other survivors moving or worse - the killer running straight at me.
3. The location of the hatch spawns at the start of the match - it just doesn't appear until 1 survivor is left. It's complete luck when it appears under a survivor or a killer. For every time the hatch appears next to me there's a time it's immediately closed by the killer because it appeared under them.
The problem with this game is that if you play it often you learn the spawns of everything so it's easy to find survivors starting spawn location, totems, hatch, etc. once you've put in enough time. If they added more maps at a time it would slow down players learning the spawns as quickly but unfortunately we get maybe 1 map per patch and it's easy to learn the spawns of one map between patches.
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Spawning rules are a tricky beast. The more rules you add, the more predictable it becomes and the easier it becomes to find the very things you tried to hide. Taking hex totems as an example, if I know that it didn't spawn near me or any of the other Survivors, that's a huge chunk of the map I can instantly rule out. I know it's gotta be somewhere far away from each of us. If I see which direction the Killer comes from, that more or less confirms where the hex totem will be.
Quick mockup to show what I mean. Say you have a small-ish radius around Survivors where hex totems spawn (~16m). This is how a map like RPD would look when you eliminate all the area around the Survivor spawns (yellow). Right from the start, so much of the map is eliminated. You can use the direction the Killer comes from (red) to further narrow it down without needing to know all the Survivor spawns.
This gets extra tricky when multiple hex perks are in play. If all five totems are hexes, the game cannot possibly spawn them all far away from Survivors without breaking another rule (spawning totems a certain distance apart).
We try to improve totem spawns as we revisit maps, but unfortunately adding a new rule wouldn't be a quick and easy solution.
As for the hatch, it's location is already determined in the map's seed. I'm not quite sure adding a new rule would be beneficial. Right now, the fact that it's entirely random means either side has a roughly equal chance to find it first. But if you add a rule to prevent it from spawning to close to either of the remaining players, then it starts to shift towards the Killer's favour since they have a higher move speed.
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Firstly thank for the responce. Didn't actually expect to get a dev response.
I can see where you coming from though. players with more knowledge of the game would be able to narrow down totem spawns if those rules are in place.
Counter proposal for a new rule to totems to help with the instant clense potential. Have the hexed totem light after x amount of time after the trial starts. For example Trial starts and killer brings Ruin. have the totem light 30 seconds after the match starts. At this point it could follow the same spawning rules that NOED has where it lights a seemingly random totem.
I believe this would enable hexes to stay active more frequently. Now there is still a chance it lights right next to a survivor but at that point given that the survivors have moved around a bit that would bring it down to bad RNG and would be more acceptable from a killer standpoint than the start of the game the totem is instantly clensed.
As for hatch i can see how it would be more killer sided if the hatch spawned away from both killer and survivor. I didn't really consider the fact that killers move faster than survivors. Maybe one day a new end game mechanic can be created instead of the hatch as the current system takes a skill based game and turns it into a luck based game for the last survivor.
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For the hatch the thing is that the hatch spawn is decided from the very beginning. Its invisible but can be detected early by walking over it and noticing the bump. Besides this, its totally RNG if no hatch offerings are played.
How about we did this: offerings aside, the hatch only spawns once the 3rd survivor dies, and it does so somewhat equidistant between the two players, maybe with a variance 50/50 to 60/40 split in the survivors favor due to the killers higher speed. This way there would be no instances with the hatch spawning directly next to one of the two players and it would be mostly a race for the hatch, with the opportunity for some tight chases and injuries.
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I'm just tired of spawning with 2-3 of my teammates as survivor. That's literally the weakest starting position you can have as survivor. Give me the spawns my opponents get, where they're all spawned on separate gens and one is even spawned on my side of the map. All I ask is for a little consistency.
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Regarding totems, this is the solution I have proposed a couple of times. Its a bit more elaborate then the rules we got right now, but propably really fair and cuts into no ones abilities to utilize totems.
1) at the start of the match The Entity sustains all the killers hexes. They have full effect but don`t appear as hex totems in the world. This grace period could be anything, but I propose 1:30min.
2) all totems start as dulls. Survivors can utilize them any way they want: boon them, cleanse them for tome challenges or perks like Inner Healing/Overzealous or just take a mental note.
3) once the grace period is over all of the killers hex perks are transfered to dull totems on the map from left to right on their perk loadout. If not enough dulls are remaining when this happens all the killers hexes stop working.
This way the killer always has 1:30min of guranteed usage of their hexes and probably some more, while survivors aren't bereft of any of their own totem related perks, with the exeption of Overzealos hex totem cleansing pert, which wouldn't be possible at the start of the game. Doing bones would be meaningful again, because hexes would be utilized more often, while a bone hunter build could cleanse all 5 totems in a jiffy, alas at the cost of not having any boon locations left.
I really would love to see this idea realized in a PTB one day, but I know that this is probably a pipedream; unless Peanits thinks this idea slaps :)
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While we are at it, please prevent the killer from spawning smack in the middle of the map, this is such an aweful position to start. Usually one survivor will spawn at one of the two furthest away gens, but with the kilelr in the middle the first patrol is just a toss of the dice and could very much lead to two lost gens without seeing so much as a whiff of a survivor, just because you chose to check left at the start of the trial, instead of right.
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I agree with 1 and 2, but I believe hatch spawning should be complete luck based. Overall the killer would generally find hatch quicker than survivor so I think it being random is fine. I mean how many times does hatch actually spawn under you (ether s or k).
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Killer mains complaining about hatch spawning under the survivor, oh my...
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that totem idea is actually really good. it would still allow survivors to break/boon totems but would give killers at least a little bit of potential value out of their hex perks.
As i replied to Peanits i didnt think about the killer speed compared to survivor speed so i get why having it how it is now is better.
regarding how many times does the hatch spawn under me, its a surprising amount of my games either it spawns under me as killer or its an instant escape as survivor.
I don't know if your just entitled, salty or just plain dumb but if you re-read my original message it mentioned that it appears to be an issue were it spawns under both survivor and killer. I have played many games as killer where survivor got an instant escape and many games as survivor where killer instantly shuts the hatch. This is an overall issue it has nothing to do with biast towards either side and i kept my original message as unbiased as i could when talking about it. Unfortunately no matter what in these forums there are always players like yourself (i assume a pure survivor main given your message) who wants to just complain about the other side.
This is something i hadn't really considered as recently i've been going to maps that have set spawns for their gates (the game and RPD and midwitch)
I would like to see a change to gate spawning so that they are either set to where they spawn or as you said have to be a set distance from each other. although a lot of games the gates do spawn fairly there are still many games where they are either so far apart killer can't defend or to close together the killer gets a guarenteed win.
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if the survivor finds the hatch it’s game over
where as if the killer find the hatch there is still a chance for the survivor to escape
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would a 20-30 second delay to hex totems lighting at the start of the match be a possible solution to this? it would kind of nerf hexes but would also prevent them from being cleansed at the start of the match which, at least in my opinion, would be better for hex perks overall
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There are maps where the hatch spawn is not totally random, more like semi random, so there are spots where it is way more likly to hatch, the swamp maps for example, elementary school being another.
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ok
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The game is already over my friend
Stop sweating for the 4k as if your life depends on it
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Personally I'd like to see Hex Totems placeable by Killer, not starting out lit on Dulls without a helper Perk (EG: Thrill spawning Hexes on Totems at the start)
Place 'em anywhere you want, akin to Pentimento across the whole map, but if placed on a Dull Totem it increases the Cleanse time.
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While having a hex cleansed within less than 60 seconds is annoying, the thing I can't stand is having survivors spawn right next to a generator. Generators are the survivors main objective, and spawning on top of a generator is what causes one or more generators to be done before the killer can even have a single hook. This is why a perk like corrupt intervention is highly used amongst killers, which is sad because it's yet another perk being used to solve a design issue.
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Just so you know, the bump hatch thing was fixed months ago.
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I actually didn't. Thanks for the clarification.
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I also get very often all 4 of us spawned together but no one is bringing that offering. And if the killer has Lethal Pursuer and you all spawned together? Good luck trying to make it to the other part of the map in time.
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Wouldn't that require time from the killer? In the time it takes the killer to find their desirable totem spawn the survivors will have done a gen and probably working on two more.
It seems to me that it's the same issue Trapper has at the start of the game.
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It would take time from the Killer while giving them full agency on where to place their totems, which would likely increase the time it takes survivors to find said totems, increasing overall effectiveness to counterbalance the added time.
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All you need is 1 survivor watching the killer to immediately cleanse the hex totem. Most times I find a hex totem quickly it's not because I spawned next to it but because I saw the killer checking it for survivors. So not only do you have the kille waste time finding a totem to set the hex but you basically guarantee the survivors have an easier way to find the hex totem as well.
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I would assume if they went through all that trouble to place it down, they'll probably guard it with their family's life.
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simply having the hexes light 1 min or 1min 30 after the trial starts would solve a lot of the issues that hexes currently have. having killers place them will as others have said cause the survivor to follow them to instant clense
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So basically guard totem and let gens fly or leave totem and have survivor that watched them immediately cleanse it. 😂
I think they should make a perk similar to corrupt but for totems. Block all totems on a map for the first minute. If you're running a hex build you'd throw it on to protect your hexes and it also prevents survivors from putting up a boon totem at the start of the match or using one of the perks that requires cleansing a totem to use like Inner Healing.
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I like it when the conversation against escalates to "I find CoH op". Because I don't think anyone else ever mention the rest of the boon totems and you saying blessing a totem should also be blocked probably is cause you hate CoH. As if the other boons weren't useless already. Fine if you get that then I hope survivors get no sound on booning a totem and no sound when killer is near. He should be able to spot it by sight only. That way I can accept your change.
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unless i missed something who went on a rant about COH being OP. this is a discussion about spawn mechanics in the game. He mentioned boons and clensing in regards to a perk idea that is corrupt for totems but thats it. Again if i missed something please quote it so i can see but it seems your pulling this out of thin air based on an assumption.
The idea of having a perk that protects all totems for min and a half which stops survivors messing with it and that has nothing to do with the fact that boons are a thing its because hex totems need some sort of defence.
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Ok, then why should blessing a dull totem not be possible within the first minute? Make the hexed totems the only ones blocked. Killer can only use up to 4 hex perks. So that leaves one dull totem.
Ok then, what about solo survivor? How are they supposed to play around it? Because I am not looking forward to a Mikaela leaving her gen to go look for totems after one - two minutes when things might be more pressing. It's already annoying when 2 mins into the game Mikaela just gets her boon up and she hasn't done anything but look for totems so far.
So I'm asking how will this change not nerf solo survivor further? Because for SWF it won't be a problem probably. And boons get a lot more value already the better co-ordinated survivors are, so for them it'd be a nerf somewhat which killers want. But what about solo survivor?
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I didn't say CoH is OP in any way in my comment. I didn't say any perk was OP. The only perk I listed was Inner Healing but not because it's OP but because it's the one I could quickly think of the name for perks that require the survivor to cleanse a totem to use. I was giving multiple uses to a possible perk that would block totems at start of the match since there's multiple uses for totems now on both sides.
Why should boon totems make no sound when a killer is near when hex totems make a crackling fire sound when a survivor is near to help them find hidden ones? I'm fine with it not making a sound when it's put up unless it's removing a hex totem in which case it should still make the exploding sound so killer knows their hex was removed by a survivor and isn't a bug.
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Because hardly anyone uses the other boons. CoH is the most popular currently and the change you suggest would be a significant nerf to this one more so than the others in part because of how commonly used it is.
Blocking off all totems for 1 min will affect SWF and solo differently. SWF will be able to co-ordinate and set their own pace and solo will be swept up by everything that is already happening and probably not be able to keep up with both gens and cleansing totems that the killer will know which ones to defend as he;'l have set them up himself (so he'll know to leave Haunted Ground unguarded as bait and protect his more important ones). Unless you mean being able to set up a spot you like and the game will generate the hex that goes to that spot randomly.
Now what if the killer decides to place his hexes around his 3 gens? Good luck getting those and the gens as solo survivor.
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It would just make you wait a minute to set up a boon, it's not like it would prevent you from setting a boon up the entire match or incapacitates you for a minute at the start of a match. You could go work on a gen first and once you finish the gen you can set up a boon.
Since when can killers set up their own totems? When did I agree that was a good idea? Any comment I've made has been how that's just a bad idea to implement. This perk idea is completely separate from a killer able to set up their own totems. The idea is for it to exist to help out with the RNG and spawns - similar to how corrupt helps with the rng and spawns of survivors with gens except in this case it's totems.
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Hmm, fair point. Wonder if there would be a way to allow for placement at a distance to at doesn’t provide a tell, but doesn’t clutter UI.
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Chill my dude it was mearly a suggestion not something thats gonna go live in the game. The beauty of these forums is we can have a (attempted) civilized conversation. Maybe the change they suggested was a bit much but so what its just a suggestion. You went full ham turning it around saying they were full on complaining about boons when that was never said.
As ive said i like the idea of a perk that blocks all totems for 1 min or 1 and half mins. and despite what u may think its not that OP as it does take up a perk slot for the killer meaning the killer is then a 3 perk killer after that min or min and half. The perk could always deactive upon first down like current corrupt does.
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Uhhh I was replying to another guy in the first place who suggested killers set up their own totems, that the reply you quoted of me.
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Players cannot find the hatch mound at start of trial anymore. Devs patched that awhile ago.
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The game is already over my friend
Stop fighting for escaping as if your life depends on it and just roll over ... oh wait, it doesn't completely work this way! But you get my gist ^_-
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Yeah, I was already informed about this development. Thanks for the clarification, though. Good thing that they changed that, that bump up when walking over the invisible hatch was really dumb.
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I was going to make a post on similar to this topic and say the shrouds don't really influence things. I've played Vigo's shroud and spawned within a Huntress' humming. Most of the time survivors spawn together so shrouds of Union and Binding aren't as meaningful. The only good shroud seems to be Separation to help reduce early gen crushing but ideally it's better to have survivors together than separated. Also with Lethal being a thing now I don't think Vigo's or Separation has much of an impact on starting game.
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DBD in 2022 and totems still spawn in the shack. Is it any wonder hex builds suck?
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seriously this. I run devour hope in my current build and whenever i see a shack totem im resigned to the fact im running a 3 perk build. 2 perks when u conside i use lethal and 1 perk if u don't could franklins XD
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Simple solution to the totem problem. During the first two minutes no totems are spawned so survivors cannot instantly cleanse them and killers do not gain any effect from the attached perks. During this period the killer can (If they choose) manually spawn totems with a minimum distance of 15 metres away from any other totem already placed.
Hexes (bar NOED and other Hexes that don't activate instantly. These are always randomly assigned) automatically apply to the first totem spawned and after two minutes any unplaced totems are spawned in standard spots.
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The game is already over IN THE KILLER'S FAVOUR
But you can still be who you are, it's DBD anyways. I have no hopes for this community.
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I for one love to give the last survivor either the hatch or the exit gate (unless they vigoriously t-bagged me or something), but I want to have "won" and asserted my dominance, ie downed that survivor or have them cornered and them giving up by quick crouching. So me trying to finding and closing the hatch doesn't mean I want to kill ya, but its part of the game. The ball is still on the field and the trial is not over yet. Yes, three are dead, but the hatch is there so that the last survivor doesn't give up, but has a reason to game on; its no freeby, though.
In the same vein, if the survivors finish repairing all 5 gens and then the killer downs one, should the survivors adhere to the same rules? Honest question: if they finished and the killer got just 2 hooks but downs one survivor, should they just open the gates and leave, because "they have already won and shouldnt sweat. Leave the killer with his small phyric victory", because "the game is already over IN THE SURVIVOR'S FAVOUR"?
If the answer is no resounding "yes, of course", but rather evasive with some "if"s and "but"s, then I see your bleak view of the community as rather baselass prattling.
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