Please don’t intentionally misunderstand the issue
I said this elsewhere so I’m just gonna post it here too.
I’m someone who is impatient and I don’t like to wait to earn shards to buy stuff so if I want something I’m just gonna use the auric cells and get it. 😆😆But I can still see the issue that people are bringing up.
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I've never intentionally understood a single thing in my life, thank you very much.
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🤣🤣🤣 Can’t argue with that.
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Doesn't care.
Are willing to just buy the skins regardless.
Aren't willing to buy the skins regardless.
Don't think it's a big deal.
Yes. It's me. Hello.
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Honestly, I imagine for some, it doesn't affect them so they don't get why it would affect others. I don't think they're intentionally misunderstanding the issue or anything, they just don't experience the FOMO issues and figure everyone else should be the same and are just making excuses for why they fail to control their own wallet.
You see this kind of thing in politics and in life all the time where someone has a different view because they've never walked a mile in someone else's shoes and therefore blow off their concerns.
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Well Written 👍
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Yes exactly. And I do think a lot of it is intentional misunderstanding.
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I agree; other than saying people shouldn't get mad at specific people (the mods) for something they have no control over I have no opinion one way or the other. It doesn't affect me but I also don't get to dictate how other people react or are affected by issues that don't affect me.
Those are some pretty good points. A contradictory message was created by not mentioning that there would be time exclusive cosmetics at the same time it was announced that shards would be used on all of the original characters outfits. I think it's human error that caused it but it definitely did not help.
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The biggest issue for me is that the level of outrage simply isn't warranted here. At the end of the day, this is a minor business decision, a cash grab that will only net them a brief surge of revenue, and yet people are acting like this is some villainous plot concocted for the sole purpose of making everybody miserable. Not only that, but as they go to greater depths to argue their case, going so far as to invoking mental health issues, they become completely oblivious to just how entitled, narcissistic, and superficial their grievances sound, which does nothing to help their cause, and absolutely invites all manner of pushback. I've tried very hard not to be insulting to anyone while discussing this, but I can't pretend to hide the fact that I find this level of indignation appalling. I've already said in other forums, it's okay to be mildly disappointed. But this level of anger? Does anybody know what is going on outside of this community, and outside of this game, and ultimately how pedestrian and insignificant this issue really is?
Incidentally, with regards to the "misinformation": Mandy said that because numerous individuals were going about stating with assumed authority that the outfits would not be available for shards next season. The truth is, no one knows, but if folks are running around flatly claiming "the skins won't be available for shards next season," that IS spreading misinformation.
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why is this an issue its a skin go play the game or buy a skin why is this important
let bhvr market how they want stop complaining especially for something like a skin.
people make the biggest deals out of nothing
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Thank you for being a prime example of the people I’m talking about in this post. Appreciate you taking the time to make an example of yourself. 🤣🤣
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Who are you to dictate that it's not warranted?
And it's been stated repeatedly, by multiple people, across like a dozen threads, that the way this sort of marketing exploits certain mental health is well studied and taught. Why, exactly, do you (and so many other people) keep dismissing this point? Do you automatically assume that anything you disagree with in a conversation has been fabricated?
Because holy #########, the regularity with which a few people jump to saying others are sounding narcissistic and entitled for explaining a well known phenomenon and how a marketing technique works and is taught is ridiculous. 'Common sense' is not a substitute for actual subject matter knowledge, which is what this keeps coming down to: "from my perspective this is minor and unimportant, so I'm going to ignore anything that involves knowledge I don't have".
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I'm sure some people are being willfully ignorant but I do feel there are plenty of people who just don't get why it's a big deal, even with your (and others) explanation.
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oh no I've been humiliated :/
well clearly with your 1 minute response time to this very important issue I've been enlightened, thank you and i appreciate your dedication and diligence on this very important topic that plagues the DBD community.
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- Irrelevant. Just because they haven't been that way till now doesn't matter whatsoever. Games change directions all the time.
- Yes they shouldn't have backtracked so suddenly like that as it causes confusion/mistrust to players but people can and do change their minds. It happens. It's not a big deal. People are allowed to change their minds even if how it went down could have indeed been done better.
It went down poorly and should have been done differently but people are blowing this into way more than it actually is. Yes FOMO makes companies more money, not a surprise, most companies do this, they need to make money. Not a big deal. Honestly for how critical of BHVR I am they are extremely generous when it comes to their game pricing, like 70% of the game (not even getting into all the free cosmetics as well) you can even acquire for free through play time. They didn't need to do that.
This is wild for literally just some skins that can even be bought right now if people care about them so much.
People aren't ignoring the points people are making on this topic as the original post says, they're literally pointing out why it isn't a big deal.
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Fully agree. Unfortunately, you’re probably going to get a bunch of irrational responses to this very rational opinion.
At this point, I’ve decided it’s best to move on and ignore any more posts about this topic. Let people who want to be outraged over this incredibly insignificant issue be outraged.
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I'm more confused on why people are revolting now when FOMO has been a major thing with the Prime skins and Rift Charms/Skins since they started? Like, why was this the final straw? Holiday skins you never see anyone wearing anyway unless it's the holiday? Is it not the skins themselves but the idea of FOMO being bad? Then why is no one outraging about everything else FOMO related and only about these skins? Would people really be okay with everything else if the skins simply stayed? Was our FOMO levels at the tip of the glass before this little stunt spilled over a little? I doubt it.
It honestly feels more like Mob mentality rather then genuine concern which you see on the forums now and again. The people who hated FOMO from the very start have suddenly gained traction behind a Mob and I feel like nothing is going to change and those same few people will be left alone again when everyone inevitably stops caring which is incredibly sad.
For the record, I don't care all that much about the skins or any of this FOMO business because it doesn't effect me. I do think it's a dumb decision to time-lock the skins though since it will upset people. What really gets me is all the bandwagon people that suddenly have a problem when there was none before. It's like if a small protest group that's been active for years suddenly gets news coverage and now their group of 10 is suddenly in the 100's. Then a week or so goes by and that group is down to 13 because hardly anyone cared, people just wanted to be involved in the new hip thing.
I hope something comes from all this outrage because I don't like time-locked stuff and everything else even if it doesn't really effect me but I have a feeling this will all die out once people realize they don't actually care that much. I do hope I'm wrong though.
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There was a question of time limited cosmetics on last survey, right? Is that related?
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It’s not irrelevant tho. It’s irrelevant TO YOU. That’s my entire point. You can feel that way but others don’t snd their feelings are no less valid than yours just because you don’t think it’s a big deal.
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I'm not claiming it's fabricated, but it does beg the question: where are they? Why do they need you to speak for them? Are they incapable of speaking up for themselves? And do you truly not realize that the absolute silence from the very demographic you're claiming to defend just makes your case appear more superficial and shallow?
And to repeat myself from another thread: these are marketing techniques. Not Jedi mind tricks.
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Yes, and we assume it's related. We all thought the majority of people answering that survey was a big NO on that question. But here we are.
Also, in the same survey, there was a question on time-limited chapters.
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By that argument everything in existence is "relevant". We try to be more objective though and term relevance in comparison. In comparison it would not be relevant by significance.
If you want to give some reasons as to why it is indeed significant I'm listening, but none has been presented thus far.
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If you could link some of these studies, that would be nice. I'd be interested. I understand that this situation is irritating to people, but I don't understand why people claim this is some sort of huge assault on their mental health. They're skins.
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I'm kinda torn on this
One the one hand i can 100% understand the outrage. I know a person who had impulsive buying tendancies and they went through 1000ths of bucks a month easilly cause of practises like this
On the other hand i can't help but feel that other peoples mental condition isn't bhvr or any companies responsibility
The person i know went through a class that taught him how to deal with his impulsive buying and he is actually able to shield himself against things like this now
And that has helped him more then any amount of yelling at companies will. Those kind of mental help classes need to be more readilly available
Going after the companies seems pointless cause literally everything can trigger those impulsive behaviours
Catchy jingles, flashy lights even sales can trigger it. If you are against limited availability you should also be against limited sales cause they trigger the same response of missing out.
I'm not going to claim to be an expert and know the answer to this so i could be 100% in the wrong here but it's a lot deeper then FOMO=evil
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I would suggest this thesis. But I'm currently trying to find something more precise.
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Most FOMO studies focus on social media, at least the ones that I've found. Plenty of correlations between the strength of FOMO effects and things like negative self esteem, isolation, etc. (which are all comorbid with other mental issues), but if you're after a why of how FOMO exists, I haven't seen that.
I could link a study (if I can find it again) which relates impulse control etc. to excessive video game playing, and then the stuff on FOMO as a marketing tactic. But I haven't seen any direct studies (they've only really started investigating FOMO in scholarly circles in the last ten or so years and this is not my usual field of study, so finding things is rather slow and very specific studies like that either haven't been completed or are hard to find).
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Honestly people shouldn’t try to make an argument of how FOMO affects someone else’s mental health when a) they are not a doctor b) not everyone suffers from the same mental health problems.
Also I feel like this is cherry picking considering that there are MANY other factors that this game has that are not tied to a skin that one could also say are problematic when it comes to mental health. Like the fact that people are telling others to end their lives on the daily in post chat. Or the fact that people are getting BM’d for absolutely no reason other than someone else wants to be a jerk. I could go on and on.
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Got it backwards; the point isn't how FOMO affects mental health, it's how mental health affects FOMO. So FOMO takes advantage of mental health to boost sales.
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When the rift was first announced the devs said you could either earn them for free via game play in the rift or you could buy them 6 months later in the store. After the first rift when it hit the 6 month mark players were asking "where are the rift cosmetics?" Players still ask when rift cosmetics are going to the shop. There HAS been complaints about rift cosmetics, especially the charms, becoming exclusive because of BHVR saying "no more exclusives."
Prime is one people have been complaining about from the start because of BHVR saying they would no longer do exclusives. Prime has also been complained about because of it costing money and forcing players to use a third party to get whatever the reward is in game.
People are being louder now for multiple reasons. They have been complaining for awhile now about there still be exclusives after BHVR said no more exclusives and this is just adding to that - they've been consistently complaining quietly and that didn't work so now they're being louder. FOMO marketing tactics are anti-consumer and they don't want to see it in a game they care about - also expect better from BHVR who in the past had avoided being yet another anti-consumer game company. BHVR JUST made an announcement in September about making cosmetics available for shards after 4 weeks only to go back on that already by saying that time limited cosmetics are exempt. The skins they are removing aren't just holiday skins but ones that were released in the winter - they are extremely generic and can be worn year round. A decent portion of the cosmetics being removed to make time limited also currently cost shards and BHVR is refusing to confirm if they will be available for shards when they come back or if they will be auric cell only going forward. There's also a portion of the cosmetics for characters that already have limited cosmetic options and are rarely played - it doesn't help the vicious circle of BHVR rarely releasing cosmetics for these characters because they aren't played as much but their low play rate is because they barely have any cosmetic options.
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Doesnt matter. My point still stands.
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I don’t think it’s cherry picking. The other things you mentioned are also relevant and things that I HAVE also seen discussed here. It’s just that this topic is the current topic being discussed mostly due to the fact that it’s news that was just recently announced.. That doesn’t mean that those other issues have not been brought up or addressed.
also let’s keep in mind that it shouldn’t be necessary for a person to post EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM they have with a video game/devs/company every single time they want to talk about one issue. That’s a ridiculous burden to put on anyone or expect.
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I mean, I don't think it does? We can perfectly well make an argument about how FOMO as a tactic is used for sales when there are literally sites devoted to explaining how to take advantage of this:
And how FoMO has a lot of relationships with negative factors, including low self esteem etc. (just one article of many): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0265407520945394
So we can say, pretty conclusively, that as a sales tactic it's one designed to target the vulnerable. And then be annoyed at that and all the other cosmetic stuff.
All whilst also being critical of how the game itself has a lot of problematic elements, like the rampant toxicity and seeming lack of moderation on that front.
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Thank you, I'll have a look.
One can imagine I find the concept of mental anguish due to losing out a skin hard to imagine. I (personally) don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by not having a certain skin. I might feel bummed out, sure, but nothing further than that. Is there any reason this feels so unbearable to a lot of people on the forums? Last I checked, people in Yemen, Ukraine and Donetsk PDR are still being shelled, so I'm just having a hard time sympathising with people who are so shellshocked by ultimately meaningless decision.
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Thanks for linking. I'll have a look. Keep in mind I won't have time to read the entire thesis, as I have one to write myself, but I'll have a look at the abstract for sure.
Seems like my last comment didn't post. Great.
The gist of it is, is that I just don't understand how a lot of people on the forums feel such incredible mental anguish over an ultimately trivial item in a game. Last I checked, people in Ukraine, Donetsk PDR and Yemen were still being shelled, yet people are acting like it's the end of the world and how the developers are damaging their mental health, so I'm having a very hard time sympathising.
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"The gist of it is, is that I just don't understand how a lot of people on the forums feel such incredible mental anguish over an ultimately trivial item in a game."
Pretty simple: it's not really anguish over the in-game item, it's anger at BHVR for constantly moving towards a less player-friendly, more freemium-like model. This is the same company that once gave out a few items saying that they weren't happy with the idea of exclusives, and all rift cosmetics would eventually be in the shop...
And now the rift cosmetics still aren't, there were Prime exclusives, they're running limited time events, they're making previously unlimited skins limited, and employing the least palatable sales tactics to do so.
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Having looked at the abstract and conclusion, I see the following points being made.
1) Cosmetics are, at times, used to gain a gameplay advantage (e.g. the example they give of the dancing emote.)
2) Cosmetics make the player feel immersed.
3) "Some cosmetics [...] [help] people fit into peer groups." (and can thus divide people into "haves" and "have-nots" (p.89))
I'm not exactly seeing any points about damage to mental health by missing out on limited skins, but if you could point me to a page where it's discussed I'd be happy to take a look. One can argue that, by having such a skins system, people might feel "excluded" (i.e. a "have-not") and therefore be upset, but this is not limited to limited-time cosmetics.
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I personally have never cared for the belief that because something is much worse off somewhere else in the world that people can’t ever be unhappy or voice their displeasure with something that’s not as serious.
Thats a very slippery slope that no one would like if we begin to go down it. If people had to consider factors like world war, starvation and death every time they wanted to vent their frustrations, especially over gaming issues, no one would ever be allowed to say anything. May as well just shut down the forum then if that’s the prerequisite. Also keep in mind no one is asking you to empathize with it. I’m simply saying let’s not pretend we don’t understand where the frustration is coming from by ignoring the nuance of the discussion.
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It would be nice if you clicked the "Quote" button the next time you're referring to a comment of mine, so I get notified and can respond to you. Has the anger now shifted from fear of missing out regarding limited-time cosmetics to BHVR taking part in consumer-unfriendly business practices? With that last part I am 100% in agreement with you, but I take issue with the fact so many are talking about how damaging not owning a limited-time cosmetic is to their mental health. I think that part is nonsense.
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I understand the frustration with the general unhappiness about the whole situation, and I agree with you that the "it's always worse somewhere else" argument is #########, but, restating my first comment, I feel it's unreasonable of people to feel such anguish over something as simple as a limited-time cosmetic. All I ask is that you put things in perspective. I used to get very angry about these things too, but I try to view this in a broader frame of reference.
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Just letting you know I've seen and responded to your comment, but it's waiting for approval.
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What I don't get is how utterly ignorant whoever made that decision has to be. The community made it clear that
- they don't want LTO skins (having LTO BUNDLES is a different topic)
- they are very willing to pay money for skins, but these skins still haven't hit the store (various rift skins, the mobile outfits etc)
Several people have suggested great mutually beneficial solutions to the topic, but bhvr seems to stubbornly ignore it.
Seriously, whoever makes these decisions ought to pack their desk and leave
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And me, high five 🖐️
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That’s fair. Perspective is also needed with most things in life and this is no exception. Lol!
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Not to be a dick, but mentalities like this are how we ended up with loot box systems, battle pass systems, "Limited time" systems, etc. Don't downplay anti consumer practices. These tactics prey on personality traits to squeeze as much money as possible.
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I understand the whole outrage, but I'm not gonna call it that big of a deal still.
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Most people who complain just say that they don't like the change, explain that it was not time limited and now it is, explain all the shard changes etc.
One thing that they don't tell is why does it particularly matter to them. So why???
Do all of you have FOMO issues? Or you just know a friend who has a friend who has a FOMO issue and you are very worried about them?
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You see this kind of thing in politics and in life all the time where someone has a different view because they've never walked a mile in someone else's shoes and therefore blow off their concerns.
You are so very right, I know a few cases about people not caring about "stuff" because it didnt affect them then suddenly someone on their family begins being affected by "stuff" and they notice they should have cared a bit more when they had the chance.
People who dont understand the problems with gacha, fomo, lootboxes and other predatory practices in videogames wait until you have a gambling adict on your family like I had and you will understand why "lol just dont buy em" is not a real option same as "lol just dont gamble" isnt an option.
Luckily one day this is going to blow up and force politicians to legislate.
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Hapeesh!* 🖐️
Thats what I'm talking about. 🤜🤛
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I've had bad experiences in other games, and while that's not a problem for me here, it does mean having sympathy for people that this change in tactic is going to negatively impact.
And, y'know, disappointment with BHVR for this change in course.
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It is possible to think that Fomo tactics and insults/bm are both issues.
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On pages 55 & 56:
In “The Addictive Cost of Predatory Videogame Monetization,” game critic and former games journalist Jim Sterling says it’s easy to suggest that people who overspend on games should just be smarter with their money. But as they argue, a person can’t just switch off an addiction to gambling or shopping even if they know the behavior is harmful. They also say that addiction can be a symptom of or response to other problems with mental health.“The place where I once found distraction and salvation is now preying upon my addictive nature and impulse spending problems. It hurts, it really does,” the source told Sterling. “It’s this weird mentality of ‘It’s only here for a limited time, and if I don’t get it now I may never get it again and not complete my collection.’ Hitting that ‘buy now’ button, seeing the rewards pop up, the spinning of the dice or slot wheels ticking past the rare loot. The ‘just one more’ rationale. It completely overrules any common sense like: ‘You need this money to pay the rent, or your medical bills, or food."A link to Sterling's video:
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