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Solo queue is so bad right now.
I am devotion 34 and have been playing the game religiously since 2019. I have to say I consider myself a fairly good survivor as well as a great killer. but here recently I have been placed with other survivors that instantly dc on their first down or just pull on hook at first hook and give up. this has always been a thing in dbd but here lately its seems like it is alot worse than ever before. so my question is why am I being placed with these types of survivors when i don"t ever dc and i have been playing the game this long. Ppl that plays the game right shouldn't have to deal with this, especially if they have put in as many hours as me. I'm to the point to where i only want to play killer because survivor is so frustrating because of the dc's and the giving up on hook. Something has to change.
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I agree it is super frustrating. Both as killer and survivor. As survivor it cripples your team and basically guarantees a 4k, and killers who notice and let a surv or two go after a DC are extremely rare. I notice it's often near the beginning of the game. Literally their first down people will insta ragequit. people who play on xbox that I am able to PM, I will always call out about it in PMs. I'm never rude, but they either ignore the messages or get super salty in replies. 🙄
As killer it also irks me. Easy games are soo boring and I feel bad for survs who are let down by rage quitting teammates. So I'll usually farm with the remainder but it happens a lot. And sometimes I just want to play the game properly you know?
DC penalties should for sure be much harsher. Yes some people have bad connections but if your connection is bad then get it sorted. And I think suiciding on hook should be stopped. I've made this suggestion many times before. But I think trying to self unhook should not progress hook stages.
This would have 2 benefits. It would prevent suiciding on first stage, aaaand it would make self unhooking builds viable. Because currently they are an actively harmful build for survs. You can stack 4 jars of lips, slippery meat AND Ace's luck perk. 2 perks per player and 4 offerings and chances are you'll still only be speeding hook phases along.
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Yeah.
But, a few things.
- DCs, AFKs and suicides are their own problem, and should be penalized a lot more strongly than they are. I'm also convinced this is heavily throwing off kill rates.
- This does not seem to correspond to what killer I'm playing, what perks I'm running and happens just as much with streamers/flans than not. All that matters is 'we might lose this'.
- It's almost impossible to balance Solo versus Killer and SWF versus Killer. Yes, a few more communication tools wouldn't go amiss, but they would inevitably used to be toxic, and it wouldn't prevent the aforementioned AFkers and quitters.
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To be honest I think Slippery Meat attempts should be given to second phase. As it is now it's a worse Deliverance if you're playing solo. That might make it a decent perk for dire situations.
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What server do you play on? Maybe we could co-ordinate. I'm only devotion 1 and I probably am not as good as you, but I don't kill myself on hook or DC. Duo can be more manageable to play (although that is not always the case, yesterday I was playing with a person I SWF usually with but he was AFK everygame. I dunno what he was doing...farming? Or perhaps bad internet. Maybe he simply had a life who knows).
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Increasing DC penalty is not the way to go. You can't force someone to play a game well. You can try to force them to stay at the screen, but all you'll do is generate resentment, and this is dumb for a service provider to do to a guest.
Also, when the DC penalty reaches any intolerable number, the player will go find a new game. That is a bad thing to do to your customers, because it will cost you money. Only SWF groups would put up with it, and few of those DC for trivial reasons.
I think they should make all the survivor map awareness perks base kit, with reduced durations and intermittent activation so new people can learn the maps and key spawns faster, But something will still need to be done incentive wise to motivate survivors to work as a team early in their careers. None of this addresses the underlying issue, which I think is survivors should expect to lose the match, they should be rewarded for entertaining the entity, they should have fun doing that, winning via an escape should be rare and unexpected.
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All online games have some sort of DC or Quiter penelties. People DC for all sort of stupid reasons during a match and they only hurt the the rest of the Survivors when they rage quit. The penelties should be stricter so player won't want to DC to avoid them. Let's look at every time BHVR removed the penelties for some reason or another and the amount of DCs skyrocket making the game very unplayable.
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I was with you until the bit about survivors expecting to lose. It's one of the things holding the game back a bit: the notion that the power role should be fearsome and successful by virtue of showing up. It was the initial vision of the genre, but it doesn't have to be the guiding principle.
A huge part of survivor frustration is how the devs chose to address the killer buffs in 6.1. They didn't address the root cause of any imbalances (maps). What they did instead was change the balance in a contrived way that boosted lesser skilled players and devalued good plays on the other side.
If you double down on the belief that killers should get kills simply because they're killers, you alienate the survivor players even further.
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For more disapointing than it can be, I feel the only solution is to give survivors/killers more information on what they gonna face, if I don't like billy doesnt matter how the match goes, I just don't want to face him, giving me this information before I get into the match, can lead to better matches, because you only will face people that are willing to play that match. Ofc this idea has it's own problems.
I got a laggy lobby with a cenobite forcing lerys (this map is bugged, and some cenobites players force it to abuse the bug), sorry I'm not gonna face 200ms, with 3 randoms, it's just no worth the stress.
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Only reason why they won't give that kind of info is because everyone would say not want to face Spirit then anyone playing Spirit would never find a match and be punished for playing Spirit
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Ahahaha...no.
Every team based MP game I've ever played, co-op or PvP, has been riddled with quitters unless some serious penalty was added. People will quit the second things look like it may get challenging.
Frankly, the game would be better off without these people, because for every DC, that's a game ruined for 4 other people.
This whole 'it's my game so I do what I want' mindset is better suited to singleplayer.
As for all the survivor map awareness perks...also no. Not only would this buff SWF to completely insane levels, but you'd make playing Trapper and Hag completely impossible, and within a few months we'd be back to pre rework kill rates, and they'd have to buff killers to insane levels.
But let's get real here. What you mean is 'survivors need to win more'. Because that's the only way, outside of adding a heavier (or better yet, more elegant penalty - such as making people playing out x matches to make their penalty decline) to reduce quitters.
Bingo.
That would be awful. You'd...basically never get a match on certain killers. But okay, let the killer see whether they are facing an SWF and what perks they are running. Then...sure?
Maps would be a good start, but some of those changes were also aimed at buffing weaker (see: M1) killers and kill rates overall. There's a reason why a 55% kill rate makes sense, but it's complicated.
Sure, it could have been done more elegantly, but I think the idea was to move towards more of a 'we're balancing around the SWF versus Killer match up' design philosophy. Hopefully solos get some love, but the survivor role really does require teamwork to get the most out of, and balancing around solos makes killer miserable.
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Literally streaming now because of how ######### the games have been today
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I'm not going to argue endlessly because there isn't a solid argument to back either side, my approach to the DC penalty is just service based. Its dumb to tell your paying people, you can't pay, or use the service I built for you. Thats as far as my thinking goes here. I don't care how they resolve the issue of discouraging DC mid game, and I will acknowledge that it needs resolving, I would just prefer it was a carrot based approach(You get bonuses or enjoyment for toughing it out).
The awareness perks I would argue over though, It just looks to me like SWF group already have most of these tools. Need a totem? You have four eyes looking. Which gen is closest to done? Same issue. Same with pallets that are down or are available. I don't feel making new players memorize these things adds enough to the game to deny it to them. I suspect the only reason they aren't base perks is due to a monetization strategy that revolves around selling perceived game advantages. And when playing as a killer, I would not care if they had all these things. New people don't know how to run, lack of spatial awareness defeats them.
I think survivors need to win less. I have no idea how you go about making that happen and making the game tense and fun. I firmly believe most of the in game issues grow out of survivors expecting to have an easy win and the entailment that that breeds.
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Eh.
Okay, how's this for an analogy.
I run a restaurant. A customer in the place is being obnoxious. Yes, he's a paying customer, but him being there is annoying my other customers. So I tell him to kick dust.
I actually did a little experiment, and checked over...yeah I forget now, but it was at least 100 games over the space of a week, just before the Halloween event if I recall. I brought flans and I didn't bring flans, also rotating through my killers. There was literally no difference in the rate of quitters.
Incentives don't work. This is an issue that needs to be done through moderation. I think a good solution would be forcing survivors to play games without DCing to get their penalty to decay.
Regarding perks - here's the thing.
SWF aren't hive minds or telepathic. Giving them what would basically be permanent, persistent wallhacks wouldn't do a ton for newbies (it would make some killers, such as Hag and Trapper completely unplayable though) but it would make experienced teams impossible to beat, as now they'll have almost constant eyes on you.
There's a reason why you see Kindred, Fogwise and even Bond in higher end SWFs - because having this information is not only sometimes really useful in chase, but it frees up airtime for other information. Giving them these baseline opens up even more room for scary perks like PTS and Potential Energy.
Remember OoO before they nerfed it? There's a reason why it still probably tops the 'most hated DbD perk of all time' list. Because it gave SWFs...honestly a bit less than what you're asking for. It's not going to happen and it really, really shouldn't.
As for BHVR not giving this to people due to some weird conspiracy...the light from that tinfoil hat you're wearing is giving me screen glare.
Yes, part of what keeps players hooked is unlocking stuff - but A. you can get almost all the perks you need from shards or shrine and B. any player that spends real money for perks is probably already hooked.
Lastly, no. Survivors don't need to win less. What we need is better tools for solo survivors, some of the top end killers brought in line , weaker killers buffed and maps balanced.
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As annoying as it is the core problem is that people are just getting annoyed at how frustrating solo queue can be even if you intend to play fair & in a non toxic manner. If you have someone DC or suicide on hook they've probably had like a bad run of games and just rage quit out of frustration more than anything.
The problem is that it's much more frequent now for people to have a bad losing streak, so what you see is the consequence of what's going on in the game with balance, tunneling, camping, regression perks etc etc.
It's not an excuse, but it's certainly a consequence of how frustrating the game currently is for solo survivors. I personally think there's should be some kind of karma system that you get negative points for DCing. Once you fall below a certain threshold you get teamed up with the rest of the people who have a bad karma rating & the only way of getting back up is by playing the game properly and being awarded positive points for doing objectives/finishing game etc.
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3 gen/kick gen meta is bad and no one wants to play it but people are addicted to dbd and can't stop playing = soloq is horrible.
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Yesterday I was playing a match at Midwich against Nurse…I kid you not every player dc’d within the first 60 seconds. One went down almost immediately, dc’d. The other about 15 seconds later, for what reason Idk and then shortly after that the last. I was just there like…what…is….happening.
She did give me hatch, but still…how terrible, we had barely loaded in. I felt bad for Nurse as well…made me wonder if that’s a common thing for nurse players.
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Do you have a link? I´m curious.
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If people feel the need to constantly dc/suicide then they should probably play another game. DbD doesn´t seem to be fun for them.
No shame in that. Not every game is fun for everyone. But by disconnecting/suiciding you ruin the game for the 4 other players in the match.
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Solo q? Dude, swf is barely worth playing. Every killer is toxic and ######### and horrible. When you play several hours a night and don't have a single good game, the problem is the people. We've got an awful community full of awful people. ######### sucks but reworking perks won't change that.
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Yeah, I've got one but I sound like a #########.
I was already really tilted from the games prior to stream, including a Huntress who decided to let me bleed out directly prior, so I don't know if I want people to see me be really bitchy and whiny over a game lmao
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Fair enough.
If at any time you change your mood/opinion about this. I´ll be happy to jump in and watch.
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I'll try to stream again and not be so awful
Hopefully then I'll have something palatable for you
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1) Make it so self unhooks only work with Slippery Meat or Deliverance
2) Get rid of grabs for the killer
3) And finally: Match survs who DC alot with eachother
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The last match I played is a classic example of the problem currently plaguing the game
The killer constantly stopped mid chase to kick gens as he knew that Eruption is so strong it is actually worth kicking gens mid chase.
He was not a great player either and I felt my team mates were all fairly decent for randoms... but it did not matter at all as we simply could not overcome the oppression of a build like this. We only got two gens completed and I probably did the mid gen twice over (important to break any 3 gen) but with Eruption COB (I missed no Overcharge checks btw) it was just too much.
This is insanity, if killers have no morals they can win simply by going into a match with a build like this and your opponents skill means nothing if they are not on comms to counter Eruption.
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It's absolutely throwing off kill rates. BHVR have said multiple times that they don't count games with a DC when calculating kill rates. So those games where no one survives because it's 1v3 at 5 gens aren't being added to the kill counts. But to the players, it's still a win for the killer and usually a hopeless loss for the survivors.
At least in my survivor experience, I get far more DC's in my games than suicides on hook. Genuine AFK from the start seems pretty rare.
I'm convinced that a lot of these disconnects are a symptom of the effectiveness and efficiency of tunneling, which BHVR really needs to address. Having the first person focused out of the game is a common strategy, but it also means that survivor is probably getting basically zero reward/BP for that game anyway.
If players are first downed (also applies to 'unfun' killers), it can feel like the only options are either:
* play out the match, spend five or more minutes, and get maybe 6k BP for it.
* Disconnect, get 0 BP, but wait out a 1 minute timer to get instantly into another lobby.
I still think DC is a ######### reaction, and those players need to take a break instead. But barring individual reactions, the only thing BHVR has any control over is the game balance. Again, I think it's a symptom of game balance if your players commonly start to believe that the only winning move is not to play.
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They exclude DC games.
The problem is that they didn't count suicides (even more common from my experience, same effect).
AFK from the start is rare (and I'll confess to occasionally butt queueing, then coming back to play and going 'ah dammit') but I definitely see it - often when someone is suiciding but gets rescued.
As I've said in other threads, quitting has zero to do with game balance, outside of certain hostage situations. You can be the fairest killer in the world, and still constantly see quitters - because, unless there are pretty harsh penalties for doing this, it's just a standard reaction to 'we might lose this and I want an easy win'.
It's also, sadly, something you'll see in every team based multiplayer game I can think of where there aren't strong penalties. Even co-op games.
Get downed early? Play the game out. Try to recover.
The only time that quitting should be an option is the odd RL emergency, or hostage situations.
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Before I consider kicking someone out I do everything I can to explain how to behave to them, or reach some other compromise. I do this so I can continue to exploit them for revenue. I would be a bad capitalist if I did not do that. To be honest, as you implied, there are some people you just can not service, and yes they have to go. I do not feel most DCing players are part of this group. I think people that cheat directly are in that group. Toss them.
I didn't think it was contentious to point out that the developers make things to sell, aside from cosmetics for Fang Min. From my point of view asking for basekit anything is like asking for free product, which most companies don't like to do. I'm not sure why you assumed I was pointing out a conspiracy. I was just stating the obvious, along with my buff request.
I don't especially care what solo que survivors get to assist them. I think they need something, I think basekit info perks reduce the learning curve for them, I think they would benefit most from knowing what the rest of the team is doing, and what the map layout is.
Your additional point about SWF having communication limitations is especially good. You can win by overloading their ability to process and disseminate. I like this tactic, I think they would enjoy it as well, as it forces brevity and clarity into their practice sessions. That sounds fun. So I would regret reducing the load via basekit info buffs. Also, some killers would suffer. They need help now, and would need more after any changes they might consent to make.
Map balance sounds great and buffs for weaker killers also sounds great.
Bringing top tier killers downward, does not sound great to me.
I said survivors need to win less, because I see this game at its most rancid in chat when a SWF loses and they feel they shouldn't have. That is a huge concern to me. Its just not okay to encourage or allow the level of venom I've seen here in a public space.
Anyway, keep in mind these are just my opinions. I'm not stating any of it as fact. Its from experience, and its intended as a contribution to the dialogue on the topic.
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