Merry Christmas! DBD is pay 2 win, and should be f2p.
DBD's shrine of secrets is outdated, they have the cosmetic pricing of an f2p game, most meta perks either have to be grinded for for an insane amount of time, or have to be bought, and just because the best killer is free doesn't mean you can use them without either spending an INSANE amount of time grinding, or just straight up paying, and you still can't use perks like eruption without paying.
And no, Mandy. DBD isn't "not pay to win" because nurse exists. That's not how it works.
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It’s kinda pay to win but 7.50 for a chapter and 5 for a character (Can be as low as 2.50) is pretty reasonable for a live service game the costs 20 dollars at most
Can’t make new content without revenue and I’d rather the cosmetics be more expensive than the actual content
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But that's exactly how it works....
Pay to win is that the best options are behind a paywall
They aren't so it isn't pay to win
You can win the vast mayority of your matches with the base game and any unlockables you get by playing it if you're good enough.
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Someone should introduce these people to Fighting Game monetization.
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Watch the video.
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I'd certainly take a timestamp if there is a direct comparison as it's just one of many genres of paid games with worse monetization schemes.
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Adrenaline/Prove Thyself/Dead Hard/Unbreakable
Completely meta survivor build and completely free.
Killer on the otherhand I'll give you the killer meta is completely behind licensed killers which is unfortunate.
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You can get a couple meta survivor builds off free survivors. And it does not take long at all to grind characters. Especially now with the cheap BW and bonuses.
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Should? Maybe, but not right now.
We’re still dealing with the aftermath of the two weeks DbD was free to claim on Epic. Going full-on f2p now would make the cheater issue significantly worse.
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I wouldn't really enjoy DBD if it's F2P I already have big issues with the game as it is. Almost every session I play I run into blatant cheaters and it feels like there's no checks in sight to stop it. Ran into a crew speedhacking this morning but somehow I killed them because they got cocky and didn't know how to deal with Blood Warden and than Galaxy Brained and tried to accuse me of camping.
I genuinely can't imagine DBD going F2P and the damage that would do to this game. It's already painful enough questioning the legitimacy of players as it is with how common cheating and even subtle cheating is. I don't wanna deal with that in F2P droves.
I don't agree that this game is Pay To Win - The thing is this game originally didn't even have the option to unlock the stuff for free - You had to pay for everything even original content. The honest answer is pay up it's not that much money in comparison to what you get. You want stuff for free that normally cost money that everyone pays for? Grind for it - It's honestly pretty fair compared to a lot of other games.
Realistically as much as I give BHVR flak I get why they have their monetization methods. You gotta pay people to keep working on the game, to keep the dedicated servers up and running and to pay for licenses. If you want to get anything free at all it should come at a compromise to keep the playercount up and keep you in game.
Regarding actually unlocking perks and needing to grind for those once you unlock or buy a killer. I'll just say it - People who pay should instantly unlock all the tier 1 perks on all characters. We all keep the game running and we're going to experiment with builds the most - if we pay we should be able to play right away. Call that pay2win if you want I call it investing in a game I spend hours on and plan to play long term. I'm not ignorant that if I don't pay money the updates slow down - I just won't support certain things but DLC specifically is not one I won't support.
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While it could be more consumer friendly, I'll gladly take DBD's monetization model over Fortnite's FOMO nonsense.
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Yikes
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I completely quit any PvP game that goes F2P, because it then becomes impossible to ever stay ahead of the script kiddies who download cheat programs.
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So I skipped around the video, but his big error is comparing it to Call of Duty. He says you can get all of Call of Duty for $70, while DBD would cost $200.
The problem is that Call of Duty and a lot of other games have relatively short life cycles. They push you to buy the 'new' game that is constantly coming out. Since DbD came out there have been 10 Call of Duty games. So if you were playing the latest Call of Duty game you would have spent two to four times what you would have on DBD.
BHVR has remained committed to the base game. They've continued to update it and they need a revenue stream. The "DLC" gives new content and options, sometimes a balance issue they are more powerful, but there are plenty of builds available to relatively new players.
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If bhvr decided to go f2p, their monetization schemes would get even worse. You want DBD to go f2p? Hope you enjoy paying $15-$20 for chapters and cosmetics.
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I do agree the monetisation is bad but if making this game free to play means we won't get outits like the dredge and david ones in the tome then i don't want it to.
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Yeah it's what happened to Overwatch 2. People complained about lootboxes but now the shop prices are unbelievable... careful what you wish for i suppose.
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Best survivor perks are from non licensed characters,for killer is a bit different but you can perfectly make it work with non licensed perks as well,,P2W is just wrong,,,Pay to have more options / skip grind would be more accurate
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That's literally what was said in the video.
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I don't watch videos from this creator,, what I typed was based on post title
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Mm it does have a slight element of that but it's pretty low key compared to a lot of other games. Chapters are extremely cheap and you can use Iridescent shards to buy the characters with really good perks aside from the licenced ones.
It's nowhere near as bad as games like WoT and the cosmetics in this game are also fairly cheap as far as most games go. BHVR has to make money somehow, especially on a game that's 6 years old. Gaming industy is just like that nowadays.
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Eruption, Call of Brine, Deadlock
all locked behind a pay wall.
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I havent seen a cheater since they went rampant a few months back. Pretty sure it wouldn't affect all that much
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Why don't people understand that F2P means a game is P2W?
How do F2P games make their money? Gatcha systems and predatory business models. They get you hooked then force you to keep buying things to get better.
DBD may have a unique business model that's borderline P2W (it kinda blurs the lines between expansion packs and P2W) but you can absolutely bet that going F2P would force them to cross that line.
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You haven't seen many cheaters because the game isn't F2P right now...
Seriously what logic is this?
Would you like to buy my magic tiger repelling rock?
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I don't use any of those perks and I win just fine.
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This was aged before it was even posted
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And also because they improved their anti cheat. You think they just ran out of accounts all of a sudden?
So do I, but were talking about Pay 2 Win here. Everyone knows that in any game that is Pay 2 Win you can still win without doing so. But if you want the best chance at doing so by having the best tools available, its without a doubt you need to pay. Especially if youre up against people who are willing to pay to have an advantage.
Ill take another game that I used to play as an example, Clash Royale. I used to be in the highest arena (Being Legendary Arena) at Challengers 2. I would win most of my games but I only spent about 10$ on the game. My cards did not reflect my player level at all. I was Level 13 with mostly Level 11 and 12 cards. The moment I went against some one who paid, I was done for. I used 1 deck for the majority of my time in the higher ranks because its all I could compete with since I had a severe lack of options.
Thats exactly the problem with DbD. Not paying anything SEVERLY limits your options, and the moment you go up against some one who is willing to pay, youre at a disadvantage. The newer you are, the worst this is as well since you wont even have other characters leveled up/prestiged to unlock their teachables on other characters.
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Survivor has plenty of strong, even meta perks behind free survivors. The only two big meta perks for surv are behind original survivors too, so pretty accessable. These are OTR and CoH.
Killers still have a few good perk options for free: Tinkerer, Nurse's Calling, Jolt, Fearmonger, Sloppy, and NOED all decent but none of their strongest, top-tier perks. Plus their strongest meta perks are locked behind paid DLC, Eruption and Call of Brine. Not at all accessable.
So both sides can still do well, but killer is argueably pay-to-win. Shrine of Secrets existing doesn't mean you can say all perks are available to f2p players. Many newer perks are just NEVER on here, you have to check every single week or you may miss what you want and meta perks seem to rarely get featured.
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I wrote some thoughts under the vid, so here's them again:
DbD needs an essential and elementary overhaul in terms of what we pay for.
No one is really averse against cosmetics, but as mintskull and others said and agree, as it is atm, the pricing is absolutely absurd, especially when it's only 1 single version of something.
So, here's some stuff that could be done:
Cosmetics:
- Reduce the prices of the ingamestore cosmetics, drastically (and give everyone who bought outfits before unique stuff)
- Release recolour packs in the stores (steam, ps etc). Meaning that whenever a new cosmetic (meaning new mesh) drops, one specific version is only available ingame, the rest is available in a pack. This goes for collection and rift cosmetics.
- Have there be questlines to unlock unique cosmetics.
- Once someone spends a certain amount of cells they unlock unique cosmetics (can go hand in hand with #1 in the sense that everyone who ever bought stuff for cells gets some free tokens to exchange in the unique-outfit store)
- Add customizable themes. People already use mods to change their icons and portraits' looks, so why not have this build in?
This way cosmetics would be cheaper but there's more of an incentive to buy cells.
Perks & Character:
This is the bigger issue, as the vid points out rightfully. But one decently simple-ish to solve I'd say:
- Keep the chapters and their prices as they are, but rework the SoS to feature more perks and have a better rotation. Also make the SoS cheaper or revert the mechanic back to the old version that unlocks a perk that can then be leveled up in the bloodweb.
- Character Questlines: The dailies are fine-ish, but not much of a useful thing. So instead move dailies into questlines that challenge players to learn a new character. I'll take Slinger as example: The quests could be starting out like plain shooting and reeling, to learning to do trickshots. Meaning that you'd start out in a tutorial version of Dead Dawg and get tasked to find the spots where you can land some surprising shots (e.g. through the gallows' trapdoor, across the street from the saloon balcony, through the carriage windows, etc) to landing those shots against stationary dummies, to moving bots to landing these shots in a live match (not in one match, cause that is impossible). Through these quests you'd learn the characters, and bit by bit unlock their teachables, ultimately unlocking a set of exclusive cosmetics, charms and lobby/UI themes. Aka, you'd earn massive bragging rights (and some shards and cells I'd say)
True it would take some massive ovehaul on how the game works, but I reckon it's worth it (especially because of bragging rights)
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yeah dbd is pay to win but that is problem for a competitive game this is a casual game so it doesnt matter
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You don't need those to win. They make it easier but pay to win specifically is that you can't win without paying
A good nurse or blight can easilly win the mayority of their pub matches without perks, even more if they add the free perks
Their are 2 mayor oversights you "DbD is paytowin" people make
First you only look at the game from a competitive standpoint. But that's not what happens if you play DbD. The skill of what you face varries. In actual pay to win games you come across a roadblock where everything you face is too hard unless you have the paid for winstrat. That's not the case in dbd
And you also state it from the viewpoint of m1 killers that they can't win. But that's not a pay to win issue that's a balance issue. If there is a free or unlockable thing available that's stronger you can't complain about pay to win
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just because the best out of 30 killers is free doesnt mean ther arent other killers that are every strong and way easier to use and master to0 get similar results... and u need to pay to get them, and no.... the game god forvid it goes free then it will get floaded with hackers.
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Nurse and blight, conciddert the top dogs are free. Just because wesker can get simular results means nothing.
You can win the vast mayority of the time without paying for more then the base game. Therefore not pay to win.
It's really not that hard
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no, blight is not free, free means it comes with the base game, does blight come with the base game? No. U need to buy the DLC of farm 9k shards wich takes a decent amount of grind. bedies then u have teh perks, Onryio with her Call of Brine, Nemesis with eruption, Cenobite with DeadLock as u can see the best perks in the game are pay to win, save the best for last from Myers ( he may be old and the perk was given a thousand times in the sanctuary but still, pay to get normally) is not that hard to understand. the game is pay to win as killer, as survivor is different cause the best perks are indeed free, with bill and meg only u can already create an almost full meta build could add David if u dont like sprint.
many people dont like the grind taht takes to buy things besides what are u gonna do buy everything by playing? do you have any idea about how many hundreds of hours even thousands it takes to buy everything with shards?.
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No... free means you don't need to pay monetary vallue for it
You people just keep changing the definition to suit your needs
By that definition every single perk in the game is pay to win cause you need to get enough bloodpoints to unlock them
Also if the argument is about pay to win you don't need to unlock everything. I'm pretty sure you can make a nurse build capable of winning the mayority of the time with one or 2 character unlocks.
Pretty sure you could do it without any unlocks either too
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I kinda agree the game is P2W.
The whole idea of the shrine is that you can get perks from paid DLC characters without buying them. But how often do these perks appear in the shrine? I haven't seen any Sadako dlc perks since they're released. Pinhead perks the same.
As long as you can't try to buy them regulary, I think the game is p2w. Because some of the best perks, like Eruption and CoB, are behind a paywall. Not that I use those perks myself, but still.
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Yes against the $1000 guy in diablo you don't stand a chance
That never happens in dbd. Be a good nurse or blight with their best addons you never don't stand a chance. Regardless of perks you unlocked by paying money
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I don't think it does
Especially seeing how it really doesn't take that long to unlock a character.
Not to mention that the base perks you can get are enough to win.
Sorry but you people are stretching out the definition of pay to win so much it barely has any meaning left.
If the pay to win of this game fixes itself after some gametime then it is not a problem. I wouldn't even begin to think of how to fix your version of pay to win without deleting all the licenced characters and making everything available at the start. I hope i don't need to explain what a bad change that would be
Point still stands that Nurse or Blight after what 25-30 hours of gameplay which for this game is nothing are available and with them you always stand a chance no matter how good you are
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Alright then,
DbD is pay to win but the advantage is so miniscule it isn't actually a problem
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DBD is not P2W. At all whatsoever.
First of all, you can win with literally any sort of build regardless of character or loadout, regardless of side. You do not ever need any specific anything to win, other than your own skill. Gen regression? Unnecessary. Second chance? Unnecessary. Meta killer/good map offerings? Unnecessary.
Second of all, said content that gives the best advantage would have to be locked exclusively to people that pay. This is also false. All 3 S-tier killers (Nurse, Blight, Spirit) are completely free. Nurse is part of the base game. Blight and Spirit can both be obtained with Iridescent Shards. All perks, licensed or not, can be obtained for free in the Shrine of Secrets with Iridescent Shards.
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I mean, I've spent maybe $50 on this game over 5 years....$10 of which I've been recycling theough the passes when there's cosmetics I like. I don't have any trouble winning and the only meta perk I don't have is CoB. So yeah, you can spend a bunch of money in this game, but you don't need to. Compared to other games they're pretty good about offering ways to buy characters/perks with in-game currency and frequently have chapter sales. I've never paid more than $5 for a chapter. If you're patient there are options. I've probably got around 1500 hours playtime out of my $50 so far. That's pretty good value.
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The people who think this game should be FREE are entitled. Do you think the game would get updated as often? Do you think you'd only have to pay $7 for a DLC? Cosmetics would become even more expensive, and the rift pass would likely also increase in price. No, I didn't watch the video. I don't have time for a 50-minute rant from an entitled content creator.
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You don't need them to win, you're right. But when looking at it from a competitive standpoint (because why wouldn't you?) you are without a doubt at a disadvantage.
Also about it being more of a "balance issue", nah. Take 2 new players, one who's willing to spend 100$+ on DLC and another who doesn't spend a dime. Who do you think is going to do better overall? The guy with SEVERLY limited options who has to grind thousands of hours only to still be missing 1/3 of the cast? (Idk if you play console, but on PC you only start with 5 killers) Or the guy who spends the dough to have the entire cast despite just starting, making him have MANY MANY more options to chose from compared to the other. You have to grind SIGNIFICANTLY less if you want to pay money.
Mobile games like Clash of Clans or Clash Royale are seen as P2W, some people don't even have a doubt in their mind once you ask them to question. They are also 2 games that you need to spend actual years to grind to achieve the highest point and the entirety of the games content if you don't want to pay. (I would know, I'm one of them. Been playing for about 6-7 years on both and still didn't reach the highest point on either) DbD is the EXACT same way, unless you're willing to spend more money ON TOP of the money you already spent on the base game, you aren't getting all the content the game has to offer.
The newer you are the worst it is, since you don't even know how to deal with anything. Watching videos or some one telling you will only get you so far since you need actual experience to fully understand what's going on. And as a new player I could see how demotivating it could be to see everyone with paid content while you're over here with the base game. That'll either lead them to 2 paths. They spend money themselves, or quit the game.
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F2P = massive cheaters, so NO!
If you enjoy a game, you can spend a bunch of dollars (sales every 3 months) on the few licensed DLCs
In parallel, you can easily unlock the most critical non-licensed DLCs (new characters and/or perks you want) with shards in a reasonable amount of time
You just wanted to whine ...
Post edited by gnehehe on4 -
I agree on his Argument with the shrine. Its pretty unlikely to get the perks you want, and the shrine should be reworked so its not "luckbased" anymore. All Perks should allways be avaiable
I disagree on some major points
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If i understand it right, you dont have to buy tier 3 perk with shards. Tier 1 is enoth and the rest you can do with bloodpoints. So its just 2000Sharts per perk you need. That you can even buy perks, is a pretty new feature so please dont try to tell that this makes it p2w just because you have to make the rest with bloodpoints.
2.) His talk about "Grinding", in dbd there is no grind. There is littlerly only the game that you play and get bloodpoints/sharts for it. If it feels like a "grind" for you, just stop playing because there is nothing else. There doesnt come a point where the "real game" begins, this "Grind" is the real game.
Its like saying "i hate this grind in diablo 3 allways doing rifts". Idk maybe just play another game.
3.) Hes taking League of legends as "good example" for a free to play game, because you can unlock everything. Later he clams that in DBD it is possible to unlock the killer and suv. but it takes way to long. In League it takes over twice as long to unlock everything.
Hes counting the DBD time with 25000 bloodsharts per game, that is wrong. Espacally if you play kiler and also if you are using addons that increase your exp.
4.) maybe i edit later
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A new player could pick up nurse, do a 100 hour training montage, have more then enough to unlock 2 characters (more likely 3 at this point) and with unlocking plague and trickster have acces to the build starstruck, corrupt, infectious fright, no way out.
You have a chance of beating anyone with that build if you are good enough
What you are refering as is not pay to win but pay to skip. It's not the same.
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Last time DBD when F2P was on the Epic store and we still are suffering the consequences. I get it though, the grind is still pretty insane for new players and it takes a long time to get all the perks on every character (let alone every character).
But I do not at all support F2P after the cheater apocalypse that resulted from the Epic free giveaway
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DH is still meta.
Like mentioned, I'd argue surv really isn't P2W. Most licensed surv perks are niche. Lots of great free and original surv perks, as well as general perks.
Let's look at each licensed surv and the strength of their perks:
- Laurie: DS is not meta anymore, but situationally strong. Sole Survivor is good for solo escapes and is used in streaks, it's decent but not meta. Requires losing to get value out of. OoO is not meta, maybe decent in a SWF.
- Quentin: Wake Up is a comp perk, but also decent in pubs, if you can actually get to endgame. Pharmacy is worse than before and Vigil is situational.
- Tapp: Tenacity is memey, but not awful. Stake Out is mainly good with toolboxes or Hyperfocus. Detective's Hunch is situational.
- Ash: Flip-Flop is funny meme, but not very practical. Buckle up is mediocre. Mettle of Man is outclassed by other Endurance perks.
- Cheryl: Soul Guard and Blood Pact are OK, but require communication to use effectively. Repressed Alliance is hard to get value out of.
- Jill: Counterforce is meh. Resurgence is situational, and worse than OtR. Blast Mine is the best perk in the game.
- Leon: Bite the Bullet is okay, but not really meta. Flashbang can be decent, but the value you get is inconsistent. Rookie Spirit is situational.
- Yoichi: Parental Guidance is good, but requires Flashlights or Smash Hit. Also inconsistent because you need a stun. Empathic Connection is a great tool to get sandbagged. Dark Theory is worse than CoH and Shadow Step in most cases.
- Ada: Wiretap is pretty good, but this meta revolves around kicking, so the value you get is inconsistent. Reactive Healing can be okay, but other perks are bigger value for survivability. Low Profile is interesting, but Sole Survivor is probably better at getting you escapes if your teammates are dying.
- Rebecca: Better than New is inconsistent valuewise. Reassurance is meta. Hyperfocus is pretty good, but not without a toolbox, and very hard to use without Stake Out.
Overall, few licensed perks are meta, which is good.
For 9000 shards, you can get a character, which is reasonable, especially if you only play one side. Let's look at which original survs you can get for shards (PC) have meta perks, outside of the excellent options you get from free survs:
- Nea has Balanced Landing, which is situationally strong.
- Feng has Lithe. Alert is OK too.
- Kate has Windows of Opportunity, which is meta. Dance with Me is situational.
- Adam has Deliverance, which is meta. Autodidact is situational.
- Jeff has Distortion, which is decent.
- Yui has Lucky Break, which is okay if you build around it.
- Zarina has OtR which is meta. For the People can be okay in a swf.
- Felix has Built to Last, situationally strong with strong toolboxes or medkits.Desperate Measures can work in healing builds or with Self Care.
- Elodie has Power Struggle, but it's not really meta.
- Mikaela has the incredibly powerful Boon Perk, Shadow Step. Also Circle of Healing, I guess.
- Jonah has Boon: Expontential, which should be renamed to Boon: Situational.
- Vittorio has Fogwise, I suppose. Maybe Potential Energy, neither are all that great.
If I were to pick a top 3, I'd say Mikaela, Zarina and Kate. Feng and Adam are good to. The rest are not that good of a value.
Finally, I'll just list some of the best general and free surv perks loosely ordered by strength:
- Dead Hard
- Adrenaline
- Sprint Burst
- Prove Thyself
- Unbreakable
- Resilience
- Hope
- Kindred
- We'll Make It
- Bond
- Botany Knowledge
You can make plenty of completely viable builds with just these perks, especially when combined with strong items, which are also "free".
Killer is another story, but Nurse is free, Blight and Spirit are original.
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DBD is not pay 2 win at all whatsoever in the slightest and in case you've been completely unaware of the games hacking problem, should never go Free to Play.
In fact, i'd rather they increase the base price and unlock some of the older Non-licensed chapters with the game (Feng, Ace)
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If we compare that Nurse to one that has Deadlock, CoB, Eruption and Nowhere to Hide she's still at a disadvantage
The build you suggested is strong, but not as strong as the genkick meta.
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