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Ha ha you're really funny
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Yes but since theres an mmr (not actually good) system then the opinions of people that play the game casually should be taken less seriously but not disregarded. Theres a reason why Overwatch went on so well for the first 2-3 years of its life which was because they saw the problems in the high end of the game and wanted to balance it.
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Becoming the object of tunnelling isn't a skill issue. It is killer's choice (and in most cases pretty profitable strategy).
Death by tunnelling also isn't a skill issue because survivors are supposed to be caught sooner or later. If killer wants to tunnel you out, they will tunnel you out, and they are able to do so in reasonable (for them) time unless sbmm screwed the killer up by matching them with better survivor than they should be matching with.
Being tunnelled out at 5 gens can be a skill issue, but if you/your teammates are constantly being tunnelled out at 5 gens it isn't a skill issue too, it's sbmm issue indeed.
Yes, you can prevent yourself from being first victim but then killer find another victim to tunnel and camp. And changing loadout can't make tunnelling/camping non-existent or more fun. It could make it longer. It's faster to just ######### and go next in hope next killer won't be that sweaty and stomping that you can't help but be downed 20 seconds in match. That's why sbmm was implemented, after all, and yet it doesn't help.
Like, yeah, I get your point, I personally don't get tunneled so much. But every first-ish game killers at least try to tunnel and(or) camp someone. Yes, sometimes it's not me. Yes, sometimes it's even 4E. Still, I feel being cheased and scummed. And if next game I'm the one who is first to be downed I can imagine how hard the rest of the game could be for me (with 90% probability). I quit the game before I'm THAT tilted, and I think those people should manage their salt better but I can feel them very well.
You can give Sisyphus any advice you want but sometimes it doesn't matter how fast or slow your rock roll down. The fact of it inevitably rolling down again and again is all that matter.
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hey real quick what’s the “S” in “SWF” stand for
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Just seems counter productive to what BHVR say they want with survivors fearing a killer yet they do nothing to counter camping effectively for the average player on soloQ.
Camping at 5 gens feel bad because you're effectively forced to go to the killer, stop all progress, either hook trade or at the very least give a free hit which just feel cheap. There's no 'earning' that hit which people seem to be big on.
BHVR tried to counter camping and tunneling with band aids (perks) but unless you actually make a forced change to playstyle, humans naturally take the easiest path which for a huge proportion of (mostly not very skilled) killers involves camping and tunneling.
Personally I'd rather they worked a way so camping and tunneling wasn't possible (at least until the end game) and increased gen times dramatically by 30s or even higher if needed to find the balance.
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Gen speed says otherwise
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Dude, every single one of those perks you just mentioned is a Survivor perk.
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You and I...play a different game.
Stop being pedantic?
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Maybe.
It was WAY worse way back when.
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Well, you were replying to me and my question was about KILLER perks.
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If you are going to quote me, at least reply to relevant text.
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My question was what other Killer perks are being complained about, and you listed Survivor perks.
So what was the point of quoting me and replying in the first place?
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You responded to their post asking about what other Killer perks were being complained about by listing more Survivor perks.
I think both @WesCravenFan and I are confused.
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Let me guess, you got steamrolled by a comp swf running meta bc they were tired of seeing the same killers running Eruption/CoB while tunneling and facecamping? Welcome to the dbd cycle my guy.
Also I wouldn't call the game survivor-sided when soloQ still exists
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60% kill rate means between 2 and 3 kills per match. Being closer to 2 than 3. Now remember how often survivors suicide on their first hook and that this affects the stats. If survivors wouldn´t do that anymore, then the kill rate would be lower. Possibly as low as before the rework which attempted to rise the kill rates.
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You explained my whole argument. Good job.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Having a streak of being 7 times the first to get found, downed and tunneled sounds more like a "i make a lot of noise at the start of the match" to me. Or that he instantly starts to run when the killer approaches. Or that just getting chased until downed is considered getting tunneled (i really have seen survivors make that argument). In other words, its probably a skill issue.
Its okay to have a bad day. Can happen to everyone. Just switch the loadout to something that gives more information about where the killer is and playing it save is the best advise i can give.
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Again. The fact that every first-ish game killers at least try to tunnel/camp someone isn't survivors' skill issue. And death bc of it could be team's skill issue (fail to do gens/rescue), not the survivor who was hooked and camped. Killers using those tactics feels cheesy and exhausting, and they tend to use it much often now than they used to before. This exhaustion accumulates. Accumulated exhaustion leads to tilt, even if your winrate is around 50/50. And in case of more average 25-35% it feels worse.
I don't think that "just take BT to fight campers" (aka just let go before eruption, just don't make noise so killer tunnel someone else this time) is a good enough argument here. At least because BT was implemented as base-kit, hence it was acknowledged as a problem bigger than just skill issue. Those DCs (IMO) indicate the problem as meta-BT did.
If you don't think all those DCs is a symptom of overall unhealthyness in some game aspects - ok then, we just can't agree here, I guess, no problem :)
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For the first time, survivors got hit hard with the nerf bat. Suddenly the game is unhealthy and people claim that survivors suicide/dc because of that. I´ve been seeing the suicides/disconnects as a problem for a long time. But whenever i mentioned it, it was played down that it doesn´t happen as much. Now everyone sees it. When the dc penalty was turned off, people cheered this on twitter and everyone disconnected for the most ridiculous reason. Streamers even had a dc counter, where they tracked how many matches in a row someone disconnected.
Its simply salt that causes this behavior. Some people think they are better players than they actually are.
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Pretty sure that "think they are better players than they actually are" is only one part of the problem, and sort of no-law-night with penalties turned off just shows how much hidden accumulated tension and frustration people have inside them (killers included). But you clearly have your point here so I won't try to convince you more, maybe you are rigth and salt is just salt.
Actually, I just hope to see camping and tunneling as not so viable strategy (with more viable other playstyles ofc) and see more diversity in bulds with true four-iri-emblem games (everyone repair, everyone hooked, everyone heal, lot of chases, and so on). I feel WOW-effect every time killer respects unhooked person and goes for unhookers (even if unhooker is aslo injured and have same amount hooks; like why am I so grateful, it's not like killer goes out of their way in that case), and it bothers me because it wasn't like that year ago.
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For example, i remember a match where i wanted to hook everyone once before going for the second hook. So thats what i did, ignoring the already hooked survivors, then when i downed the survivor who i hooked first, he suddenly disconnected and left a "thx for tunneling" message on my profile. Some people are just salty for no reason.
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Welcome to the game brag
welcome to dbd brah. One month after joining the forum, do u even know how all perks work
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Wanna know a killer survivors suicide against the most? Nurse. Wanna know who has one of the lowest kill rates? Nurse! I also highlt doubt many people are killing themselves immensely against Sadako.
You just cant use these stats man, theyre whack af
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Ironic how all the people that dc against her, simply invalidate the stats.
Btw. lowest kill rate on average. Since her skill ceiling is high. Baby nurses get stomped pretty regularly.
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When did I say I DC against her?
Also the stats shouldnt be used to draw conclusions. If so, we cant just cherry pick the things we want to see. Meaning we cant just ignore things like Sadako and Pinhead being at the top
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True - but some of that (perhaps a lot of that) is more mechanical changes to the game rather than changes within the community. A big fix was removing most of the 'haha you can't pick me up from this spot so I'm just going to run over here and stand still whenever you chase me' areas.
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You didn´t but fact is that people just dc.
Like my last match against Spirit. All 4 survivors spawned together and she had Lethal Pursuer. So she went directly into our direction. A Nancy gets downed within 20 seconds, attempts to suicide on hook but got rescued. Now she didn´t run away and proceeded to stay right under the hook. Killer downed her but went for someone else. I completed a gen and went to pick her up. No progress and dc when i tried to heal her. No camping, no tunneling, just people being salty.
I agree though, that we can´t draw definitive conclusions from kills vs escapes. What actually needs to be taken into account are hooks. Not hook stages, just hooks. Getting 8 hooks but 0 kills is determined a bad killer, when its actually more skillful than getting 3 hooks and 3 kills.
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Can you explain how a 60%+ killrate is survivor sided? On what kill rate would you see the game as balanced?
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Yeah...so.
Those kill rates don't include games where a survivor suicides or AFKs, and I see a survivor kill themselves on hook in at least a quarter of my games (and watching high MMR streamers, it's about the same). So that's 4 guaranteed kills right there in maybe a quarter of games. They also don't indicate which games are against SWFs (what the game should be balanced around) and solo players - but we know that SWFs escape maybe 15% more?
Suddenly, that 60% is more like 40%, if we focus on SWF games without a quitter.
It's also almost certainly going to go down quite a bit next time, with a new meta starting to emerge in SWFs, some batty new perks added (Fogwise is prenerf OoO levels of absolutely broken in SWF), Eruption and CoB almost certainly getting nerfed due to the endless wall of forum QQ - and we don't know what effect the status icons are going to have either.
Personally? I don't care about gross kill rates. I care about kill rates in SWF versus Killer, especially on broken maps like Garden of Joy (did...nobody realize that the main structure could be an actual infinite with the right window spawns on an already strong map?). And if BHVR do accomplish their goal of getting solo close to the level of SWF, then yeah - something is going to have to give.
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You mean the meta where you do nothing but patrol a 3 gen with four gen slowdowns, than disproportionately makes soloqueue miserable, that is the worst meta we've ever seen.. okay lol.
If this is a "survivor op, wahh" even at the top now, the competitive level that plays for money, typically plays a variety of killers (Dredge, recently!) And usually ends in 2+ kills. Survivor isnt as strong as you think, and not everyone is begging for "every slowdown to get nerfed" most soloqueue just want eruption to be changed so you're not doing nothing for 30 seconds every time you're hit, and a more healthy meta that rewards being good at the game and not babysitting a 3 gen.
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Tbh with how much I've seen survivors suicide on hook I'm willing to bet the actual kill rates is more towards 53-55%.
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The thing is that the 40% kill rate vs swf is balanced by the 80% kill rate vs solo, because solo is about 50% of the matches.
Also, the TO said the game is survivor sided, which includes those solo survivors.
I totaly agree with you, that the game is swf-sided, but vs solo, the killer has clearly the upper hand.
My killer games are actually very binary, where i either stomp the survivors, or get stomped by them. In my matches, there is nearly no middle ground.
And while you might focus on killer vs swf, the devs shouldnt, because solo is half the survivor player base.
Yes, IF they get solos on a comparable level with swf, then killers should be buffed, not nerfed. However, i doubt that will really happen. They might close the gap a little, but maybe not enough to warrent a killer buff.
The only way i see it is a competitive vs casual (but thats marketing, what i want is swf and solo queue) with different balancing, so both queues could have about the same kill/escape rate, and thus, killers would have no problem with swf or solo.
You could also balance the competetive (swf) queue around 60% killrate, and the solo queue around 50%, giving killers an incentive to take on swfs.
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You cannot balance around solo though, because then you're basically flipping killers the bird so long as SWFs are in the game.
Think of it this way.
There are 2 match ups. SWF versus killer and solo versus killer.
Killers cannot choose to not face SWF.
Survivors can choose to group up in an SWF.
You balance around SWF, then try to drag solos up closer to their level. That's...literally the only fair choice here.
Yes, this game is binary - because it's incredibly snowbally. But that's another discussion.
You also can't move SWF to a different queue, or else we'll just be back to endless lobby dodges until folks get matched together - which is what SWF was added in to avoid. Because what people are after isn't really playing with their chums - it's an advantage.
Survivor complaints are valid, while killer complaints are 'wahh'. Gotcha.
The 3gen hostage strat is a different scenario - and a really fringe one, as you're basically just trying to run out the clock or forcing folks to DC. It's like when the last pair of survivors abuse the (redacted thing) to avoid AFK crows and hide in a locker to force the killer to DC. Both are problems, both should be bannable, but again - different discussion. And not really one about balance so much as the way the objective interacts with certain killer powers. It's closer in spirit to walling people into the poop room on The Game.
And...uh, I'm not sure you read up about that tournament. Because if you're talking about the Cup, they literally gave the killer an option of four killers to play. One of those options was Dredge, one of those options was Pig. And that Dredge game was very, very nearly a loss - with strict restrictions on what the survivors could bring...on Midwich.
Now imagine those same four survivors without any restrictions, versus Dredge on the Infinite MS Garden of Joy.
Also - before Eruption it was STBFL. Before STBFL, it was PR. Before PR, it was Ruin. Yes, whatever the current killer meta is will get complained about - because it's much easier to blame the killer or the build for a loss.
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Using weak parts of games design to win the match makes it an exploitation by definition. If you have played other games you must know that every action by one side needs to be counterable by the other. This is literally how games are build. Keep camping and tunneling but in this case survivors must have stronger counters and killers should recieve some penalty for that. It is not normal that you advise survivors to suicide and to just play next match. I want to see how you play against decent blight nurse bubba wesker spirit trickster that tunnels because against their tunneling there are no counters. These are the matches that you understand that something is very wrong with this game and tunneling "strategy".
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Not sure what you call a "feature" and what you mean with your argument in general
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SWF is a feature built into the game, knowingly using a VPN to screw with your connection to gain an advantage is cheating.
Its not really an argument, just pointing out what you're basically using as a "Take That!" really doesn't make sense
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I don't advise anything to anyone in this post nor other posts in this tread.
And I don't understand why you quoted me with this answer because it seems you agreed with everything I said.
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You're really funny yourself. The game is definitely not survivor sided at all. It's swf sided with communication and effective coordination. Why do you think tournaments allow for people to be on comms? Cause it's easy to snowball hard without any communication which is solo queue (which is the majority of the player base). Let's not do an us v them post and still being wrong at the same time
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Mid MMR is still killer sided. The kill rate is 60+ % I believe up to the top 5% (high MMR, which is when it becomes SWF sided).
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love this bait
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pretty much the only good survivor perks
you want them nerfed?
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60% kill rate is barely over 2 kills per match.
60% kill rate is also the desired kill rate by the devs. But all this is going to change anyway, when the new HUD update goes live.
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