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Gotta love that reassurance is utterly useless for a basement hook
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Don't do it while the Killer is there?
You're basically asking to use a perk, risk free, that stops the Killer's one goal in the game. That's Survivors for you. 'This perk that literally freezes the Killer's one goal is not easier to use in the Killer Shack! Make bigger so we can do it frisk free!'
And making it larger would make it even safter on the other 99.9% of hooks, allowing Survivors to run by too far away to risk being chased or hit. Which, hey, that'd be the Killer's problem, I guess? As long as Survivors get their risk-free basement pausing.
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Don't use the anti camping perk while the killer is camping?
I absolutely did not need to read any more of that after your first sentence, lmao.
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I see. You had no actual talking points so you went for 'I did not read it, lmao'. Too bad ignoring my points does not invalidate them.
How's this: Not every hook will have great ways to use Reassurance. Learn how to use it instead of asking for unneeded buffs that will make it OP.
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No need to read your "points", can't imagine finding any logic from someone stating that you should just use the camping perk "when the killer isn't there". How do you not see that as entirely invalidating anything you say afterwards? You clearly want the perk to be beyond useless and that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.
Also, as you keep bringing it up, please show me where I said to buff Reassurance, I'll wait.
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I think you're confusing it with Kindred. Reassurance has no aura reading at all.
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Making the effective range larger is a buff. That's literally how buffs work.
And now you're saying it's a useless perk because you can't EZ the basement? And you have yet to actually refute my point that buffing it makes it broken everywhere else.
On, right; because you decided to ignore my posts since you had no counter arguments.
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Okay, if you're not supposed to use this perk when the killer is camping, what DO you use it for?
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You can use it while the Killer camps. Survivors just want a handhold buff that allows them to use it from the Shack doorway with 0 risk/100% reward, while once again ignoring my point that buffing its range for Shack handholds makes it OP everywhere else.
Anyone going to discuss that? Or am I safe to assume I'm correct at this point?
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My guy, show me where I said to increase the range, lmao.
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"from the shack doorway"
LMAO, people want to be able to stand above the shack and proc it, not from the doorway, like running through the shack and procking it holy lord
Post edited by EQWashu on4 -
Ok:
That's 'increasing the range'.
Why don't you show me where I said I wanted it to be useless?
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"people want to be able to stand above the shack"
PEOPLE, Not Me. At least use a comment before I asked you to prove it, again, I'll wait, because I've not asked for a single buff in this thread, lmao.
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And yet you claimed I wanted it to be 'useless' and have yet to show where I ever said that.
You also have yet to actually address my comments past an avalanche of cellphone abbreviations. So I don't see why I should be bothered to go back through your own posts when you can't be bothered to read mine.
Have a good evening.
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How is it OP? What does this perk actually do that makes it 'OP'?
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As you said in that first comment, it would actually punish camping. And we can't have that, can we? Punishing a killer not moving away from the hook by buying 30 seconds of time is 'hand holding' according to those very smart comments
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This is pretty funny actually, make up some claim that I wanted something buffed (which I didn't) and then bail on the conversation, it is useless, and people arguing against any change to it at all probably want to keep it that way.
Every killer and their dog said Reassurance was going to be so hard to deal with and such a pain and I've seen it be used less than 10 times since the perk came out, it's useless
Have fun making up arguments with people about things they didn't say.
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I said buffing it's range would MAKE it OP. Not that it is OP now.
And yet you yourself made up a claim that I said the perk should be useless.
Pot, meet kettle. Dial back the hypocrisy.
You claiming it's useless because you want it buffed does not mean it is useless, nor does it mean I ever made that claim.
And you still have yet to address my comment that buffing it to give Survivors EZ Basement uses would make it too powerful with literally every other hook. No? Going to keep flogging that high horse?
As you yourself said: Have fun making up arguments with people about things they didn't say.
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It's a niche perk with little to no use at all, why does making it viable against basement camping make it viable, because it certainly doesn't make it OP in any situation, lmao.
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Such a buff would make it OP in every other hook situation, since it would then be activated from further away, and thus from a safer distance.
Just because YOU think it has no use does not mean it has no use.
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I think Reassurance, even with extra distance added to its range (because the distance between basement hook and the upper floor is less than 4 meters), would still only really work against a killer who was camping. And that’s kind of what the perk was designed—or rather, conceptualized—to deal with. If it’s inefficient against camping, which it is, there’s honestly no sense for it to be in the game. It’s just another survivor perk that survivors just won’t use because if they’re going to risk using reassurance they’d probably just be better off going for a save.
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I'd be in favor of making it just slightly longer ranged. 7m would probably be fine.
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But that's the point, how would that make it OP? The whole, singular purpose of this perk is to buy a little extra time if the killer is zealously guarding the hook. It is useless if the killer isn't doing that. Even if the killer IS doing that, the perk got slammed so badly that it's still nearly useless.
So how would bumping the range a little bit make it 'OP'?
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Nothing you said makes the perk useless. In fact, it does exactly what you said it's supposed to do; buy a little extra time.
And I explained how it would be made OP if the range were increased: Survivors could run past hooks from further away. Further away = safer from the Killer being able to chase or hit as quickly.
How is it 'nearly useless' when it does exactly what you say it's supposed to do, except for the basement hooks?
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'A buff' does not mean it is immediately OP. No one is advocating for bumping the range from 6 to 60, just enough that the killer can't simply stand on the staircase and completely block the perk's one purpose.
And it's nearly useless because it barely buys extra time. Those extra thirty seconds on the hook are paid for by another survivor going up to the hook and activating the perk first, so the perk's effect, even completely unopposed, is not that significant. Since the survivor has to get close, if the killer manages to injure the survivor running the perk, it's even worse, since that's free pressure for the killer on top of a bunch of extra time wasted.
So overall, the perk is pretty bad. The only situation in which it could have done some work was before the crippling nerf, against hard-camping killers. Now it's borderline useless against hard-camping killers, and completely useless against hard-camping killers in the basement.
Do you see why this perk is not very good and could do with a minute little itty bit of a buff?
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And while 1 Survivor goes and uses the perk; 2 more are doing gens with pressure to unhook taken off them.
Not to mention it causes the Killer to camp longer before a person dies on the hook, once again buying 2 Survivors time to do gens for longer before the camping killer is back to hunting.
You're acting like the time economy is the same for Killer and Survivor, and you're wrong. The Killer can't camp & patrol gens at the same time (barring a 3 gen). Survivors CAN sneak towards the hook AND do gens, because there's 4 of them.
And if the Survivor is found; well, risk vs reward. Making the ranger longer is literally lowering the risk and raising the reward.
The Perk is buying time for OTHER Survivors to do gens unopposed by a camping Killer longer. So no, it does not need a tiny buff.
Plus, it was broken before the nerf, and easily abuseable to troll with.
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Reassurance either needs a much broader range (20+ meters) or repeated use per hook with a cooldown. And here’s why: if it can only be used once per hook state, then it needs a greater range so it isn’t basically a survivor detriment (killer gets a hook on survivor applying reassurance, who wasted time running to the hook and then has to waste time healing after the killer hits them, which counters some of the time reassurance would potentially buy). If a survivor is close enough to reassure they’re essentially close enough to save. It’s just not useful—even in camping situations (tbh Kinship is technically better although a survivor has to run that). At best they’re giving the killer pressure, at worse they’re trading hooks or creating a hook + slug situation. If it doesn’t have a better range then it should apply more than once per hook state. I don’t believe for an instance killers care about ‘survivors holding other survivors hostage.’ And frankly, I don’t see how that’s any different than survivors blocking one another in, or pretend saving from hook.
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Reassurance either needs a much broader range (20+ meters)Brokenly OP. Be able to pause the hook without getting anywhere NEAR M1 Killers.
repeated use per hook with a cooldownBrokenly OP. Imagine all 4 Survivors bringing Reassurance and taking turns running past the hook; They could leave that Survivor on the hook infinitely.
Which is how it worked on the PTB, and how it was abused. So you're literally asking for the PTB Reassurance that can be used to give an infinite hook state.
And I already pointed out that 1 Survivor can Reassure while 2 more do gens, so it's not applying much pressure for the Killer, at all.
No and no.
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More a response to your overall position than this particular post, but why exactly should there be risk for using an anti-camping perk? The entire purpose is to punish killers for being glued to hooks and not taking chases to leave, doesn't it defeat the purpose to ensure there must be risk to use it?
Take a facecamping Bubba in the basement. Right now, you have to risk going into the basement and getting downed just to activate a perk that is supposed to punish that Bubba for camping. Doesn't that seem backwards? Shouldn't it be that the Leatherface has to stare at a glowing survivor without ever seeing the other survivors, specifically because those survivors brought a perk that punishes that playstyle?
Certainly, there's a maximum range this should have that should be pretty low, but having that range be "just enough to proc from the middle of shack" should be reasonable. It wouldn't allow the perk to do anything other than punish camping, which is what it's supposed to do.
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why exactly should there be risk for using an anti-camping perk?Because camping is sometimes valid, and the perk does not exist to punish all camping all the time everywhere without risk. Nor should Survivors get a risk-free punishment perk just because they hate camping.
having that range be "just enough to proc from the middle of shack" should be reasonableOnce again, no, because you're ignoring how increasing it to 'just enough for shack' buffs it everywhere else. No buff or nerf exists in a vacuum.
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I'm not ignoring that at all, I specifically said I don't believe that would allow the perk to be useful for anything other than anti-camping. Hypothetically, from a pure balance standpoint, infinite Reassurance isn't actually OP- at that point, you've just got a functionally dead survivor, it gives no inherent value to the survivors if the killer isn't also standing there.
(That's not to say we should have infinite Reassurance, it'd be a problem from a griefing/trolling standpoint.)
So, being able to activate it from further away than you currently can would achieve... nothing, inherently, if the killer isn't camping. Certainly camping is sometimes valid, and that's why the range should be close enough that you're less likely to be able to activate it stealthily, but... it does punish all camping right now, except for the basement, which is the place it should punish most.
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People are also saying that they should at least be able to activate it from the stairs or at least directly above the hook. Let's not cherry pick what we want to hear
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And while 1 Survivor goes and uses the perk; 2 more are doing gens with pressure to unhook taken off them.
As opposed to what?
This gets forgotten an awful lot, but the baseline that the game assumes isn't that all survivors are permanently incapacitated. Let's run this scenario four times:
Scenario A: Killer is camping, Reassurance is in play. Yes, there's one survivor using the perk, the other two are doing gens. Those two get 30 seconds of extra time to work on gens. At this point, Reassurance does work. How much work? Well, compare it to scenario B.
Scenario B: Killer is camping, no Reassurance. If the survivors know the killer is camping, there's three survivors on gens as opposed to two. Yes, they don't get the extra 30 seconds, but they do have an extra survivor on gens for the entire time it would've taken that survivor to run up to hook and activate the perk, plus potential extra time if the killer is playing in against the perk. Additionally, the survivor that would otherwise have run Reassurance is now running a different perk, providing a different benefit, potentially saving time in other ways. (IE: Dead Hard, Botany, Circle of Healing, Lithe, Sprint Burst, Hyperfocus, etc.)
Scenario C: Killer is not camping, Reassurance is in play. Killer runs off to pluck one of the two gen-repairing survivors off their gen, survivor with Reassurance runs up to the hook aaaaaaand... Pulls the survivor off the hook. Reassurance does not come into play here at all.
Scenario D: Killer is not camping, Reassurance is not in play. Same as scenario C.
What you are complaining about is Scenario A, but you don't use an objective benchmark. You're just looking at the situation as a whole, with a camping killer trying to facecamp into an anti-camping perk, and think 'wow, this aspect of the scenario benefits the survivors! That's unfair!' without considering what the alternatives are, or determining how much of the situation is down to the perk, or even how difficult it is for the killer to overcome this perk.
Not to mention it causes the Killer to camp longer before a person dies on the hook, once again buying 2 Survivors time to do gens for longer before the camping killer is back to hunting.
This is the part where you actually doubled down on this demented forum mentality that's going around: Anti-camp is fine, so long as it doesn't interfere with my camping.
When you're playing survivor and you try to flashlight and bodyblook and hook sabo against a killer with Starstruck, do you whinge about how unfair it is that you can't do that as easily because of that perk? Or do you realise that it's a dumb idea to do exactly what the perk counters?
Do you come to the forums to complain about how broken OP lightborn is because you held S for 10 seconds trying to blind a Wraith that was obviously not going to get blinded?
Making the ranger longer is literally lowering the risk and raising the reward.
Yes. From being absolutely not worth running under any circumstance to 'It might pay off a bit if the killer does exactly what this perk counters'.
The Perk is buying time for OTHER Survivors to do gens unopposed by a camping Killer longer. So no, it does not need a tiny buff.
A perk that requires a killer to play into it in order to have any benefit needs to have a reasonable effect. Reassurance doesn't have that.
Plus, it was broken before the nerf, and easily abuseable to troll with.
Yes. You could troll with it.
But you could only troll THE SURVIVOR. Not the killer.
The problem it had in PTB was that it could allow a bully squad to keep a survivor on hook indefinitely by refusing to rescue. All it needed was an option for the hooked survivor to deny the effect and it would've been fine. Instead it got the dumbest nerf possible in order to make sure that campers could just continue merrily camping away because the value the perk offers was neutered. (Even in a way that specifically also nerfs solos over swiffers, fancy that)
Camping deserved baseline nerfs. We didn't get that. We got a perk for it instead, forcing survivors to sacrifice general power in order to have a very situational counter to a very specific strategy that is absolutely rotten to the core, it got completely gutted, but having it work against the bloody basement (Which no longer has a reason to exist, by the way) is 'too much' apparently.
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There's some good discussion going on. I'll just add that it's a perk that I tested extensively, and it's barely noticeable and a waste in soloq, because it requires a lot of coordination (not just gamesense) to work. But even in a full party, it has to be run by the whole team to do its job. The hook instance condition is crippling and, when going against a deadlock+nwo, you need the full 1m30s extension to have an effect, or a 2k is very achievable just via facecamping.
For how much they gutted the perk from ptb to live, instead of going for more gradual nerfs, I'm actually surprised they didn't even add the condition that it deactivated when gates are powered.
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The question is, Why does Reassurance need a buff? It's a very effective tool as is, and just because it can't be used with zero risk in every instance is hardly a good reason for a buff. No perk should have zero risk/cost involved.
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Since I haven't seen anyone address this yet, Reassurance already works between floors in almost all areas.
On Midwich, RPD, and The Game, you can Reassure a survivor above or below you already, because they are within the perk's range of you stand directly above or below them.
The only 'normal area' hooks that are too far would be things like first floor of iron works from the upper catwalk, or Thompson house balcony from the ground outside the house (it might work inside once you go up the stairs into the first floor). Again, these are outside the 6m range.
The basement, though, appears either coded or bugged to not work with reassurance. Not only does it not work from directly above the hook (at, say, shack), but you can't reassure through the wall if you're anywhere on the stairs either. You have to be at the bottom of the stairs in the basement proper to get the prompt. The middle of the stairs are easily within 6m of the hooks there.
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The problem goes deeper than reassurance not reaching basement hooks.
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Reassurance is pretty strong, and in a SWF it's very strong. It's one of the only perks survivors have to punish camping, and it does a good job at that. Even if it takes one survivor time to go over there and use it, that's still upto 2 other survivors who get 30 seconds longer on gens.
That said I'd be fine being able to proc it above basement hooks.
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Ehm didn't they change it from limitless to limited so survivor couldn't grief their teammate on hook indefinitely by not saving them and denying them the suicide?
Edit: This is a sarcastic question since i know it was at least half the reason for the prob change.
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What are you talking about? The vast majority of perks in the game have zero cost or risk attached to them, and they're not a problem.
This argument of adding 'risk' only gets trotted out when there's a survivor perk that does something against camping or tunnelling, because I've never seen anyone make this kind of complaint about Fixated, or Botany, or Desperate Measures, or Streetwise, or Distressing, or Unnerving Presence, or any of the dozens of other perks that have zero risk and cost involved.
Reassurance is not an effective tool at all when you consider how niche its function is.
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Tried it with my swf on a small map perm aura revealing is quite strong especially when it covers 75% of the map. It's more of a problem with map design than anything similar to that of the boil over situation when it was released. It's actually quite strong, but don't use it with solos as they would think you were bming, also reassurance works multi level so if multiple people have it they can just go under the floor or above you and activate it.
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Perk is already useless as it is, outside SWF or you want to get value once in 1000 games.
"Hey, somebody is hooked, let me stop doing objective and travel across a map to give 30 seconds to a person on a hook." WHAT A DEAL! Right???
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So devs nerfing Reassurance is them hinting camping is a viable strategy?
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