Nurse got a nerf and what about swf? (simultaneous equality to both)
Most Nurse players aren't good with her, the stats show that too, and yet she gets nerfed because a few people can handle her, in swf it's exactly the same and much more common (people playing in coordination) because Nurse became a perk nerfed, with swf it's the same perks are changed-nerfed because you can abuse it, but swf is ok because 4 people with their friends can bully the killer because 4 have fun 1 is frustrated = is ok for bhvr, If only Unbreakable Base were to come, I can already imagine how the swf troops would abuse power struggle or sabbo actions,
while the swf (who play normally and don't want to abuse it) and the solo q people have to suffer (with nerfs) because the "bully-swf" will do it! as a killer you can't do anything about it, for example powerstruggle with flipflop: if you leave him he gets up himself, if you pick him up you'll be stunned, no matter what you do he's safe
Nurse can no longer abuse the perks which is right and good! but what about swf ? what about the killers going down against swf ? what about all the perks and even a map (rpd) that had to be changed because of swifs that abused it?
Comments
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What nerf do you want to SWF?
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"most nurse players aren't good at her"
Yeah, now they can actually get good instead of getting carried by broken add-ons and perks
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SWF will never be nerfed ,you need to realize that and move on,,No game developers in their right mind would punish people for playing with their friends
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Plot twist: NURSE is still the strongest killer in the game.
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what about all the perks and even a map (rpd) that had to be changed because of swifs that abused it?
They were changed, as you have just stated in this sentence, because of swf. Do they need more changes? I wouldn't think so myself. There are certain items or addons on the survivors side that are still kind of ridiculous, but that's a seperate problem if you ask me.
SWF still have counterplay. Arguably the odds winning against really good swf are stacked against you, but I personally don't think it's impossible to win against them. And if we are talking about really good swf players here, then the killer player should also actually be really good at the game as well, in order to have a chance at beating them.
Nurse barely has any counterplay when she is played optimally. And let's be honest, while the upcoming nerfs are welcome, her base chase power is not being touched in any way, so she'll still be a killer with very little counterplay, if any at all.
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It's very simple:
No Character, Item, Perk or Offering repeats. Lock SWF loadouts as soon as they enter queues except costumes.
This change will have almost zero effect on two man teams.
Three and Four man teams can still play four exhaustion perks but they can't play some extreme cheap angle (like everyone has ds/unbreakable/DH or everyone has prove/hyperfocus gen rush). And they can't force a perk situation like automatic deliverance with slippery meat or allow for 4x offerings for distant hooks and combine that with toolboxes/sabo perk.
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Most SWFs aren't good either. I don't get why so many killer mains pretends like every SWF is a top 1% comp squad with 30k hours. I feel like i'm watching a tru3talent stream.
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Because they'd rather blame "SWF op" than admitting they just suck at this game
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So don't punish them for playing with friends. Focus your punishment on what can be abused while playing with friends without hurting its average use. Even the Nurse change is essentially nerfing every perk that she got disproportionate value out of in a way that only affects her if you frame it that way, which is the approach that could be taken toward SWFs as well. Limits to things like perk synergy, stacking, duplicates of strong perks, etc could easily be worked out if the same nuance could be applied. Even something as simple as item limits would be better than nothing.
I completely agree that the majority of SWFs don't need and should not be nerfed, its the potential that needs to be addressed.
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Even if the devs wanted to do Nerf SwF, the problem is HOW exactly can we go about it, without making it too unfun for that side of playersbase. Most SWF as many players mentioned it are casual players that like the goof around and play the game less Causal, and yes, Swf in high ranks can be less forgivening as they can stack meta perks, operated and communicate valuable information about the killer as well as location of gens and which to prioritize on, as well as whom and when can they go for the save and protection hits, etc. Not to mention, Bully squads, the worse breed of SWF whom literally do not fear the killer and intended on bringing the worse experience possible for them.
As we have established, nerfing SWF is impossible as you cannot ban folks for third party voice communications programs like discord, you cannot create a system that blocks perk stacking for everyone, especially if say those 4 Survivors are favorite two out of the several exhaustion Perks. (Sprint Burst and Dead Hard). You also cannot nerf gen speeds, as Gens are not as fun to do; but for some reason, changing Survivors spawn point is not easy to fix. Basically, it seems like no proper nerfs can be maded to SWF, without hurting that playerbase fun playing with their friends.
But, I propose much better change of pace on how we approach SWF! Instead of nerfing it, for being the most powerful aspect of the game; why not buff soloQ to be on par and makes survivors strong all together, regardless with or without communication. Once we makes Survivors OP in general, either as a Solo or SWF; then we can started to chip it all away or simply buff any killers extremely so that most killers that struggle to handle 1v4, to now can handle them. It can be added some basekit slowdown, it can be add some mobility or even lethality, it can be add rewards for going for multiple hooks and chase so that when done and played very well by skilled killers, they can get massive pressure on all Survivors in the match. It will help with the whole "the Survivors have already done 2-3 out of 5 gens and I just down my first survivor after one chase, looks I need to camp and tunnel this one Survivor out of the game; so I have a chance at winning" mentality.
Most of the problems that surface because of SWF have to do with Imbalance bad map designs, the 4v1 survivor advantage. And the fact that certain perks can be quite strong when stacked or pair well with almost any situation, especially when they used a map offering for that build.
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I can already hear the lobby hopping for 4 friends trying to play together. It has 0 effect.
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it is necessary to increase the information for solo (add kindred to the base etc.) making them as close as possible to the SWF
I understand that you can’t make 4 random people into 4 friends who have been playing for a long time, but this can bring them at least to a relatively close level
after which we will be able to properly buff m1 killers
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"nerfing SWF is impossible... you cannot create a system that blocks perk stacking for everyone, especially if say those 4 Survivors are favorite two out of the several exhaustion Perks."
Tournaments prevent perk repeats and it works great. Even then there are usually only two killers played due to the efficient nature of survivors. There are exceptions based on specific maps where a certain killer has a huge advantage (like twins as a pick for Azarov's).
-"Most of the problems that surface because of SWF have to do with Imbalance bad map designs, the 4v1 survivor advantage. And the fact that certain perks can be quite strong when stacked or pair well with almost any situation, especially when they used a map offering for that build."
And that's another reason to prevent perk stacking.
IF the goal is to buff solo queue survivors and then buff killer we can very easily do that. Give killers a 1:1 regression to repair speed with survivors as base kit.
Give every killer a way to "zoom" around the map either as teleportation that only the killer can use (see monster hunter world with giant holes in the wall). The zoom would be something like a " I can run in a straight line and not attack or use my power while doing so for 10 seconds. This would basically be a "hillbilly speed" rush.
The teleportation method would have 2-3 points per map where the killer can just come out of the wall/floor.
I can guarantee what will happen when every survivor gets more efficient : Killers will continue to tunnel more or quit.
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The devs do not have to nerf everything at once. This isn't the last patch.
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You can't handicap people for wanting to have fun with their friends. The two things are not comparable.
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Technically the HUD changes to give info to survivor is a step in that direction, since making the gap between soloQ and SWF closer is essential to balance the 3 sides.
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I always like the idea of perk stacking being limited to one or two perks in the match. So that 3 DHs isn't possible, although it might hurt new/free to play players whom doesn't unlocked every teachable perk. If there is way to make certain that everyone has them perks, and if so; whom would be the unlucky individual in which they cannot used the 3rd perk when the other 2 have it. Maybe the game cannot start at all, if it detect 3 perks stack, until the survivor discusses amongst themselves that they need to change their perk slots to even the score.
Some folks may also argue with "but you are limiting perk diversity when you have perk stacking" yet I like to counter that stupid remark with.. but it isn't perk diversity if you running the same common meta perks every game and stacking it together.
Also, on a side related note, your proposal of implementing some sort of teleportation/ dash like ability as basekit for any killer would be welcome change. Anything to allow slow/average m1 killers that Do not have any map pressure mobility/slowdown to their power would be a welcoming change. It can be yes. As simple as "adding a movement speed increased that lasts for the duration of you not finding any Survivor and engage in a chase" which can help with map patrolling, if they are not using their power. It can be like Bloodlust without engaging in chase mechanics, and can possibly help with bad maps with far out 3 gens.
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technically there is no more "meta" because there was a meta change to perks, so there is no more meta and people play variations of perks and not the same perks anymore, NO! of course not, you don't need to be albert einstein to say that the solo q will still be miserable, as if you put 4 good survivor together in a lobby without information (like solo q) they know exactly what they all have to do , still have decision-making and still destroy the killer, I mean in the solo q are your mates with icons: Meg who is scared and hiding at the edge of the map, claud who dies in 10 seconds and dwight who hide in a locker, still exist in the "hIGh mMr" which means that solo q will still be as bad as ever only that you can see from the patch that your mates are useless, I would say with a functioning matchmaking what you think could happen but no , solo q will still need a buff to make it more comfortable
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name those said issues that only SWF can abuse first
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I fail to see how your (wrong) meta analogy has to do with the discussion.
In any case you can't ask to close the gap between solos and SWF and, when they do, complain that it doesn't matter because people suck. There is nothing the devs can do to make people not do stupid #########, but giving solos information that was only available to SWF is a huge step in the right direction and you can't deny it.
No offense, but if then you keep getting paired with bad survivors maybe you should ask yourself a couple question.
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Do I really need to explain to you how perks like Fogwise become considerably stronger with communication? Unapproachable situations like double lockers with two people with head on in them? This game doesn't understand sanity checks, and players who are both good and coordinated find new things to exploit pretty much every patch. If you never play matches against coordinated players, look up matches of people who are. Even just having very high efficiency is enough to destabilize the game's balance, which is exactly why we have the gen rush vs tunnel arms race.
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So you consider fogwise and people with headon abuse ? Welp i have nothing to say to that i guess lol
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"your proposal of implementing some sort of teleportation/ dash like ability as basekit for any killer would be welcome change. Anything to allow slow/average m1 killers that Do not have any map pressure mobility/slowdown to their power would be a welcoming change."
It could actually be so much simpler than that. Add the following rule : if a killer has no teleport power or movement enhancing power ability then they now move at at 120% base speed.
You keep Blight, Freddy, Ring, Demo, Clown, Wraith, Wesker etc at 115% base speed. They move just fine like they are. But now all the low B-D tier killers who suck because they have no ability to move and have limited abilities just got way better in chase. Now you need to pre-drop against them on the strongest loops in the game because their antiloop is their 120% movement speed.
Good survivors already know the spacing difference between 110% and 115% killers; now they can learn how a killer with 120% movement feels.
Pros :
1) People would play killers like Doctor, Pig, Nemesis, etc. at high MMR instead of another nurse/blight.
2) No tiles need changing - the new breed of 120% movement killers are just "better" on those old loops.
3) You don't need blanket buffs for like 15+ killers with no movement power and you don't need to add some generic movement power that could help traverse the map but won't work in chase.
Cons
1) Survivor mains with 3,000 hours or more would cry as all their looping muscle memory would be pointless
2) "Complete" package killers like Blight/Nurse would probably still be way better.
3) There might be some crazy interactions with the new speed. Imagine having a few levels of bloodlust while using coup de grace and you could have a beyond insane lunge range (that only works 5 times per game anyway- but might feel bad).
3) Some of the killers like wraith/clown would definitely feel left out. They already get a movement power so they would not be moved to 120% speed. Maybe with this we could revert last year's nerf to wraith so he gets the old speed back?
The only realistic alternative I can think of that makes sense without redesigning a huge portion of DBD is to set all maps to be somewhere between 8500-9500m². Looking at the speed of the last time we got reworks that's about 2 years of work thrown out the window. On the bight side how often do you really get to say defenestration?
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The same can be said about Nurse players, yet here we are.
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SWF wont be nerfed as they are only playing with friends lol. SoloQ is soon getting a buff (its in PTB) and that will help make SoloQ and SWF to have an equal playing field which then makes it easier to buff / nerf killers.
If you were gonna nerf SWF how would you? All suggestions ive heard for ages from people are awful.
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