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The true strength of "swf" and why the hud update isn't end of the world.
Firstly, when I speak of "swf" I'm namely referring to people who play to win and use comms as an intentional advantage rather than a group of friends having fun while chatting on discord, I'll refer to the latter as "friends". Regardless of what you think punishing friends for playing with each other will never be a good idea and even if swf is op a nerf like this would kill the player base of a multiplayer game.
Many people site the communication swf can perform in a match as the biggest strength I would disagree. Perks and a keen eye can often get you more information than people would believe and although coordinating the location of the killer or perks they're using is nice, this information is usually not useful as the killer is in a chase or this is information that survivors can infer as individuals. Even then many people see these as the best uses of in-game comms and the new hud doesn't provide any help with this.
In-game coordination is nice but pregame coordination is stronger, think about the number of matches you see as killer with 3+ circles of healings or other team perks, completely excessive and unnecessary, the person with deliverance being found first as everyone else hides or one survivor sending every to a map like Garden of Joy with the best build for the other survivors to not take it seriously or go for memes. Now imagine matches where people do coordinate builds and playstyles before the match so they're not stacking team perks for no benefit, making sure the person with deliverance is never found first or that everyone has their best perks before loading into Garden of Joy. The strength of swf isn't knowing what people are doing in the match, the strength of swf is knowing what people are doing before the match and planning around it.
People like to say solo queue is high variance between teammates, maps and killers but with a swf you can completely eliminate one of these variables and ensure it's good, you can do this with maps too if only one person uses an offering. The new hud does nothing to help this and pregame chat exists but doesn't help console or give enough time in a 60-second lobby to be anywhere near as good.
So don't worry killer players, this isn't armageddon and the second coming of the antichrist, not every player is going to be a swf comp team just yet. Survivors have gotten stronger yes but not by an insane margin and the parts of swf that were the most powerful are not in the hands of everyone now just the parts that help the game be a little less infuriating for solo. Considering, according to devs, most players are duo anyway, I don't imagine this has a massive effect on most survivors as it's.
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While it's certainly true that pre-game co-ordination is strong, I also think that the most powerful thing survivors can do isn't just being efficient on gens, it's turning a 1v1 chase into a 2v1. Chain flashlight-saves, pallet saves, sabo saves, breakout + boil over, all the usual bully squad trappings. And that requires constant intel and coordination.
I think killers should get better pick-up protection after failing a hook.
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Yes, however, I believe this is something countable and inefficient. Sabo saves and flash saves do require coordination but also require conditions the killer can play around with, such as limited availability of hooks and angles, and they have risks. Going for a flashlight save can often get the killer an extra down or health state if you're not careful and requires you to go off your objective for a period of time giving the killer a large benefit if it goes wrong. Sabo plays similarly can be played around by going for different hooks as well as time, item and perks dedicated to not doing objective or more consistent survival. These kinds of "bully squads" also require pregame coordination of agreeing upon it beforehand and wouldn't be possible otherwise. It's potentially very powerful but I'd say the risk, counterplay and commitment stops it from being too strong.
Ultimately though what you're talking about isn't affected by the hud changes either so I doubt it's going to appear more than it was before.
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I would have to disagree. While a few flashlight saves here and there can save a very close game riding on that person not getting hooked, most of the time it's just wasting time not on a gen. A 110 second chase at the start of the game is enough for 3 gens to be done no matter the spawns, an extra 30 seconds wasted on first chase because the nea trailed the chasee the entire time is still time lost for survivors in terms of efficiency.
You body block it's one less person on a gen, you sabo I'll slug you both. Most "bully squad" trapping just end in the game being over vs a team that might have beaten me. Although it is more fun if they don't kill themselves because it didn't work.
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1)Take 4 tournament teams from one of the last DBD tournaments.
2)Randomly assort them so that each team has 1 player from each of the teams.
3)Give one of these four new voice teams voice coms.
4) Do not let the teams plan out their perks/items before the game.
What happens? The team with the voice coms win. Everyone involved is a really good player but the difference is that the teams that can communicate are more effective.
That team can say things like :
There's a hex totem where I went down.
The killer shack generator is 90% completed.
If he leaves me for a few seconds I have unbreakable.
Keep doing generators I have deliverance.
Playing against 2x teams of 2 man SWF used to be "fine". Now with the new hud these four players play much more like a 4 man SWF. That's not fair. What you're telling me is that I need to only play Nurse/Blight every game to compensate. And I need to tunnel one player out with the first three hooks while spreading pressure.
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I mean we may have to disagree with that last bit, if you think you need to play the best killers with the best builds and the absolute best strategy to win against any coordinated team then go ahead, I disagree with the extreme but we all play differently and work well with different strategies.
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Simply knowing what a teammate is doing does not put solos anywhere near the level of a SWF good comms. I've benched players for bad comms and denied players outright after tryouts because of comms. "I'm on a gen"'/"I'm on a totem" are not comms. You're telling the team nothing by saying that. The person in chase has no idea where "the gen" is. A comp call-out is "I'm on a gen (here) at (percentage)" or "I'm in a chase (here) going (there). I used (pallet)." The new HUD for solo queue doesn't even begin to approach that. Basic SWF comms do very little against a good killer, and very few SWFs have good descriptive comms.
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Explaining all that makes so much more sense to me now....
Also that I was going to say something really similar... but without any knowledge of what I was going to say... LOL
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You guys were already doing this before the changes. All you're doing is playing normally
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-"Simply knowing what a teammate is doing does not put solos anywhere near the level of a SWF good comms."
It's more information than knowing nothing. Do not forget the devs intend to add the completion percentage as part of the hud - as per the patch notes.
In the old times before the Obsession chase wiggle nobody knew anything that was going on. It made players more passive. When everyone knows exactly when the chase ends it lets them be more aggressive with zero risk.
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You presume incorrectly that I will continue to play killer.
I remember the original killer strike.
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Uh huh anyways
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What was those about again? I remember them happening but I didn't really care at the time, I just played normally and didn't see a difference in my games.
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A very good point and way of putting it, glad to hear people who put this into good words from their own experience.
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Eh, the true strength of SWF is having people who (generally) care about what happens to other people on their team, which will never be reliably duplicated in solo queue no matter how many buffs happen.
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Solo players didn't see a difference. But people playing in a SWF were waiting 10-15 minutes for a match.
If the killer dodged your lobby then you went right back to the match making screen for another 10-15 mintues as this was when the killer was the host of the lobby.
When the game was small it made a huge difference when somewhere close to 2000 killers signed a petition and stopped playing killer. More just stopped playing because the game was a complete joke at the time with infinite loops dominating the scene.
The fix for all this was "super bloodlust" which was one of the most killer dominated times in DBD.
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