Is holding the game hostage etc further explained anywhere officially
Seems to be that holding the game hostage is a matter of opinion.
Singling a person out and continue to attack till they are out of the game. is listed as a ban-able offense yet another page "tunneling" is not. So apparently this is matter of an opinion as well? Its only ban-able if they are doing it to ruin someone's enjoyment? and not as a valid strategy?
On both levels Survivor and Killer. I do not want more peoples opinions I would like to see it further explained by Game Devs etc. I would like to see something official and something that addresses some of this issues.
They define a action that most call tunneling as a violation, but then another page directly say "tunneling is not valid reportable action" so more info please!
They never define holding the game hostage. Is a killer blocking a player(s) so they can't move and actually play the game hostage? Is slugging and not hooking till everyone bleeds out a violation? Is doing the iffy topics like slugging and letting bleed out then bragging about it on social media and doing it to every team as killer because it ****es people in that group off? Is that a violation? (NOPE because it's only considered if the victims report it)
Is there a system in place AT ALL, for people who post on social media or video feeds bragging about ruining peoples game play and loving to "P* **" people off?
So really I am over opinions of other players, I would like to see things more defined by Devs. I can't find such a place and it's almost like its a pit for toxic breeding. BUt only if you go out and try to learn more about the game and community to learn and get better with and from.
Thank you
Answers
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I don't see anything specifically about "hostage situations" here, but here are the official game rules reference: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/139-game-rules
The official responses from BHVR basically boil down to this: 'holding a game hostage' occurs in a reportable way when the game no longer progress after an extended period of time for some reason. The exact definition of 'extended time' is intentionally vague because a lot of factors can come into play. There is some nuance to this, which is why I suspect BHVR wants a report with video evidence rather than just a text report.
The most common forms of confirmed 'hostage taking' are:
* Stalemate scenario: Remaining 2 or more survivors are hiding from the killer, without attempting to touch gens, for an extended period of time. (Survivors focusing on the survival objective, but completely ignoring the complete gens to escape objective)
* Stalemate scenario: Killer is using perks and power to secure an area (usually 3gen), without attempting to down or kill survivors for an extended period of time. (Focusing on gen regression, but completely ignoring the kill survivors objective)
* Hard bodyblocking is a gray area. This is where a survivor is held in place by the killer or other survivor(s) in a small area and can't leave until the other player(s) move first. Usually, if a survivor is hard body blocked in a corner by the killer or survivors, the game might still progress (the remaining survivors can finish gens, open the doors, and escape, while the bodyblocked survivor dies to EGC). However, if all remaining survivors are body blocked by the killer who isn't taking the free hits to continue the game, this is considered a hostage situation. Especially if the killer just goes afk.
Most common complaints people claim are "hostage" really aren't. They might be unsportsmanlike, bad mannered, and/or toxic, but not an actual hostage situation as far as BHVR reporting is concerned. Things like: tunneling, camping, slugging, or teabagging at the exit gate all end with normal gameplay of the survivor dying or the EGC ending the game. Hiding during a "slug for the 4k" scenario is not a hostage situation, even if the "last survivor standing" does nothing but crouch in the corner while the slug bleeds out (a 4 minute timer).
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The singling one specific player out rule is when it's done across multiple games, with the intent of focussing on getting the specific person out, not just a survivor.
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The good news is we know what is specifically classed as a hostage situation based on previous comments from the Support Team and Community Managers.
Effectively, if one player is trapped and cannot do anything for an extended period of time, and there is no guarantee for the game to end, it is classed as a hostage situation.
If someone has been bodyblocked into a corner and they cannot escape from it for an extended period of time (the exact time frame we don't know, but assume that it's longer than 3 seconds and shorter than 3 days), and the Endgame Collapse has not yet started, it is a hostage situation. If someone has been trapped, but only trapped after the EGC has commenced, that is not a hostage situation because there is a definite end in sight.
This is why slugging until bleedout isn't a hostage situation. There is a definitive end for the game in 4 minutes time when the survivor bleeds out, and therefore it isn't a hostage situation.
Use these general rules and 9 times out of 10 you'll be able to guess BHVR's answer to if something is or is not holding the game hostage, but due to the nuance and Support's unwillingness to act without solid proof, you'll still need to supply video evidence rather than just a text account.
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Someone has already linked the official game rules here for you so I will refrain from relinking them.
Our official rules do state that tunneling is not a bannable offence and yes it is essentially part of the game.
Holding the game hostage is something we've answered many times on this forum, I am sure that you will find many comments by myself and Peanits addressing the situation - and those are official comments. And in answer to your question, yes blocking someone so that they cannot do anything to progress the game is against game rules - if they are not in dying state (bleedout), EGC has not started (countdown timer for end of game), on a hook (again hook timer will end) - there is nothing they can do to progress that game, so the player who is preventing them taking part in the game is at fault here.
We do not monitor anything that happens outside of our official platforms, we take action when our game rules are broken but what happens on other platforms such as Twitter or Twich etc, are on them to monitor and take action if it breaks their rules.
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I agree that these things aren't explained very well in the official rules, and it seems like it's pretty important for people to know. Most players don't read the forums. It would be helpful if the rules themselves explained what's meant by targeting people repeatedly or holding the game hostage.
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How is being bleed out for 4 minutes not considered hostage is beyond me.
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Because it will end very quickly...hostage situations are when nothing can be done to end it and it can do go on indefinitely.
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You literally gave the answer... you'll die in 4 minutes. There's an end.
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You been bleed out before while killer dances around you? Can you honestly say it's very quickly haha?
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Yeah I don't think 4 minutes is very quick, hey if you got nothing better to do for those 4 minutes awesome, I'm jelly but I got limited time to play at night
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Whilst you might not feel that 4 minutes bleedout is very quick, it's most certainly not indefinite - which is where we draw the definition of hostage taking from, including not being able to progress the game. A survivor being slugged and bleeding out is not indefinite and is progressing the game as that survivor is dying.
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Not trying to be a jerk but if don't do gens and hid for the full game or if a killer traps someone in a corner, it's not indefinite either the game ends after such a time. So where does the line between hostage and annoyance begin?
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And this is precisely why this rule is a bit confusing.
For example, if i body block someone in a corner as a killer, the other survivors can do the generators, and end the game. So there is also an end there, yet the body block in a corner is against the rules.
Additionally, wouldn't it make more sense to make these types of hostage holding simply impossible? Why not allow a survivor to walk through a killer (or another survivor) if they are being body blocked, through some sort of detection mechanism? Perhaps if their models collide for 10 seconds, then all the blocked survivor has to do is walk into the killer or survivor for 10 seconds, and then they can pass through them. Being able to walk through a survivor/killer is already a thing that can happen when you get hit, where you lose collision for a bit. So why not use this same logic, and just activate it in this scenario?
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Additionally, wouldn't it make more sense to make these types of hostage holding simply impossible?Yeah, but that would be logical.
Now if you create a Rube-Goldberg type solution to the issue, then you're in BHVR's ballpark.
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You -do- have a point here. I've been bodyblocked by a Trickster at 5 gens and had to wait until the rest of my team did all the gens and opened the gate, which absolutely sucked. I did report him as BHVR does deem this report-worthy but technically there -is- an end-point, it isn't indefinite so long as even one other survivor is available to do gens.
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In your example - how can the survivor that you are body blocking progress the game? Can they complete gens, are they in dying state - if neither of those things apply you are holding that player hostage in the game.
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the game will end after one hour - so it's indefinite up to that period. There's nothing the player can do to progress the game, which is where the hostage situation comes into it.
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Yeah but if I'm bleeding out on the ground last survivor there is nothing I can do to progress the game. I can't open the door from the ground and killer has shut the trap door isn't that hostage then?
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Are you purposely being obtuse?
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No? Just don't like my time wasted. Are you here to throw insults and jeers ?
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You are actively bleeding out. The game is progressing.
The killer has also shut the hatch. Endgame collapse has started. The game is in the process of ending.
I'm a survivor main who also dislikes being slugged, but this is all clear stuff.
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I'm not crazy right? This is still bull that I've got to wait for the whole timer as the killer dances around? Why are people acting like this is a good thing? Haha let's say he hasn't closed it now I'm just slowly so slowly crawling around till I find it just to have him\her close it. How is that not stoping my progress there is nothing I can do. Can I at least bleed out faster?
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You are progressing the game, by bleeding out - regardless of anything else that's progressing the game, it's not an indefinite period of time, it's a matter of minutes.
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I just want to mention this.
WIthout naming names, a very popular survivor streamer who knows basically all the Fog Whisperers has gone on record recently as categorically saying that even if you abuse the 'item' glitch to never get AFK crows and hide for the entire match, BHVR *will not* ban for this.
His exact words were something to the effect of 'I do this all the time, they don't care'.
He does this, live on stream, almost daily. To thousands of viewers.
Never even been warned, but likely reported constantly.
So...yeah. It's very, very clearly not bannable.
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Mate you're mad now, there didn't even used to be an end-game timer. You should be extremely thankful you didn't play in those times. Just accept the bleed out, go on your phone for 4 minutes, watch something on a 2nd monitor. The game is progressing and that is not hostage taking. No amount of you whinging about it taking too long is gonna change anything.
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Eh...in all fairness bleedouts suck and we should get that mori thing ASAP. It's just silly as it is.
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No one is saying it's a good thing. At all. It sucks. But it's not hostage taking, as the game will end in a matter of minutes. Being bodyblocked in a corner by a killer though, for example, is considered being held hostage because you are there for the foreseeable future without any indication of game progression. You're at the mercy of everyone else, and reliant on them to bring the game to an end.
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1: You are bleeding out, the game is progressing. In the very near future, you will bleed out and the game with end for you
2: You can run unbreakable et al to pick yourself up and get back into the game if you so choose
3: You can move away from where you were slugged and force the killer to waste time looking for you, whilst giving your team mates a fighting chance to either progress gens or pick you up
4: You can also guess where the hatch may spawn. Offerings will also help with this.
So to say that being slugged is anything like being held hostage is clearly not true. This is completely unlike being body blocked where there is no perk or option available to you to do anything that'll lead to any change in the game state.
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What about 2 survivors hiding from the killer with no attempts to progress the match? Since the addition of "force ending a match", has anything changed in regards to that? As in, its no longer bannable?
Saw someone going around claiming it was mentioned in a recent stream that it was no longer bannable since the match will end after an hour and the killer can spend that time looking for the 2 survivors hiding (but they didn't provide a link). I haven't watched recent streams so I can't confirm or deny they are spreading misinformation.
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If only there was a team of people capable of making changes to the game that could prevent this.
Maybe such a change could be that if the killer hasn't hit anyone for 10 minutes straight they lose.
Another change could be that if a survivor hasn't made measurable progress (cleansed a totem, healed someone, did 25% gen progression, chase, etc...) that survivor loses.
That way we wouldn't have to rely on these player reports that require video evidence.
Now if only we can find such a group of people.........
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They are spreading misinformation.....I can't find the post because my brain is shutting down due to needing sleep but Mandy and I believe Peanits both confirmed if the Survivors are hiding with no major progress to gens and avoiding afk crows that it is Holding the game hostage for the killer.
Now I'm not sure how much time needs to pass but it IS Bannable. Just because the match timer is lowered to 1 hr dosnt change it because up to until the match closes the Killer can't progress the match if he can't find them hiding in a far corner or locker hoping....
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I'm aware they confirmed but most statements are from before they implemented the "force finish match" system so the question is, are those statement still valid? The user claims the statement saying its no longer bannable happened in a stream that is more recent than the comments.
For example, I shared this comment from peanits https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/1259979#Comment_1259979 and they claim its outdated as per what the devs supposedly said in a stream not long ago.
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The Forced Match end system wouldn't affect survivors that are hiding. Also unless that streamer is a official DbD Dev then the last post made by Mandy and Penits IS the official ruling on the subject and until they say otherwise in a official statement then the Streamer is spreading misinformation.
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While you did comment on hostage situations, you avoid clarifying some things.
Like, why is an action legit if only one player does it, but becomes bannable if 2 or 3 players do it?
That is the classic 2-survivors-left-and-not-working-on-gens-scenario. Before, i could only guess if the other survivor is working on a gen.
But now, with the survivor-action-icons, i know exactly that he is not working on a gen, even if i am hidding from the killer and i know he is not near because i usually run bond.
In this situation, it would be a bad move to keep working on a gen the killer comes back to, because i take all the risk and the other guy does nothing. However, if i start to to the same as he is doing, i am comitting a banable offence (keeping the game hostage).
I am not clear about that. Are both players keeping the game hostage? if i touch the gen again once in a while, even if just for 5 seconds, does it become non-banable, or, if reported, is just the other guy in danger to get banned?
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